The dirty BIG secret of WhatsApp... the second check mark does NOT mean your message has been read!

Did Adam read that? I don't know!
By Kevin Michaluk on 1 Aug 2013 09:25 am EDT
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As BlackBerry gets set to take its native BBM instant messaging service cross-platform to Android and iOS, there's no doubt the incumbent it wants to crush is WhatsApp. Over the last couple of years WhatsApp has grown to have a huge base of users across platforms and around the world. Jump into any phone app store, and WhatsApp will always be near the top of the list. 

WhatsApp has been successful because it gained critical mass in filling a void that BBM could have and arguably should have done years ago. Anybody who's used BBM and watched the rise of WhatsApp knows WhatsApp essentially ripped off BBM in form and function, and has been playing catch up to BBM on a feature by feature basis. Most people I know don't love WhatsApp - they simply tolerate it, as it gets the job done well enough for the most part. The thing is, it really doesn't.

One critical feature that WhatsApp is sorely missing that a lot of users simply do not realize is a notification that your message has been read by the recipient. On BBM and iMessage for that matter, D and R are used as notifications to the sender. The D represents that the message has been delivered to the phone. The R represents that the message has been read by the recipient. The value of the R is super critical, as it's what keeps you in the loop on the status of your conversation and that it's happening in real time.

Instead of a D and R, WhatsApp uses checkmarks to represent message status. Based on the precedent set by BBM and WhatsApp, I think a LOT of WhatsApp users out there mistakenly take this to mean that one checkmark means the message has reached the phone while the second checkmark means the message has been read. I have seen this happen in my life often - where people think I've read their WhatsApp message and ignored them in replying because they see two checkmarks on their end, yet in reality I haven't even read the message on my phone. This is often referred to as the "dirty R" when it comes to BBM, but the concept of the dirty R doesn't exist on WhatsApp as there is no read confirmation.

As stated in WhatsApps' official FAQ:

- (one check) message successfully delivered to the server.
- (two checks) message successfully delivered to the phone of your chat partner.

Note: this does not indicate that the message was read, just that it was delivered.
Also note that in a group chat you will only see one check mark indicating that the message was successfully delivered to the server.

It's in WhatsApp's FAQ that this is the case, so they're not hiding this lack of funtionality, but from my observations its definitely a BIG misunderstanding among WhatsApp users out there. And to me, the value of the read confirmation is EXTREMELY important. The read confirmation is what makes an IM client a reliable form of communication between individuals.

And thus, I think it's an important message for WhatsApp users to know. It's also another compelling reason why I believe BBM is a better service, and when it does become available on Android and iOS I want to see all my WhatsApp' using friends, colleagues and family members on Android and iOS switch to BBM immediately.

Spread the word. 

Reader comments

The dirty BIG secret of WhatsApp... the second check mark does NOT mean your message has been read!

294 Comments

What is more shocking to me and I don't know if Kevin is aware of but some carriers re use old phone numbers, causing conflicts with WhatsApp users. For examplo my little niece got a new smartphone and she installed whatsapp and I guess she got an old number recycled and she started to get all the junk from the previous number owner friends. Is annoying because you don't know what number you have to block until you receive an anonymous message.

what is most shocking is that Kevin thinks that Read-receipts is something everyone wants. It isn't. I like it personally, but this should be an option. I'm almost certain that on iMessage you can turn off the read receipt. BBM should have this function.

Yes, I do. Some people value that feature and others don't. Who is BlackBerry to say that you have to send read receipts. I'm sorry, but if they want it to be as successful as possible, make the default sending the read-receipts, but give an option to turn it off. People will choose not to use it if you don't give them that option. Especially i-phone users since they already have the ability to turn off read receipts.

If they make it an option to turn it off, I want to see "exclude lists" (everyone but, nobody but) and a different color D from users that won't be giving me a read receipt. Then I'd be okay with it

If you have been using bbm as long, U would have known that there is a trick to read whole bbm message without turning the 'D' to 'R'.
It involves:
1. Setting save chat mode
2. End chat.
Find out how... ;p

I'm not interested in tricks. I'm just saying that if I'm not going to get a read receipt, I'd like that to be indicated to me

then, bbm is not for you. many of my friends love bbm because of the 'D' and 'R'.
you might want to use more of whastapp or better yet, use wechat so when u send anyone messages, u won't know whether the message have been delivered or read. and the worse part is, i've sent a message to a friend using wechat and she only received it 2HOURS later.
love the hanging feelig of sent or not messages.. LOL.

You misunderstand me. I like the read receipt. I'm just saying that if they make it optional, I want an indication that my contact opted out so I'm not left looking for a blue D to turn into a green R.

I get what you are saying and I am not sure why other have a difficult time with it. Yes absolutely agree. And for those people who seem to want that level of privacy if they are a trusted contact are not for me. I use BBM only because of the (D) and the (R) feature. If someone has turned that off, I want to know and I would go a step further and remove them from my list. They are useless to me.

I got rid of of my blackberry around 2010. At that time they had updated BBM so that you had to option to disable "read receipt" notifications. i know this because I refused to use BBM with certain people until they made the change. it's a great feature for those that don't abuse the information. Namely overbearing, needy girlfriends or potential "friend friends"

Yo are so wrong. Most people don't care about settings and leave them at default. Your job as a developer is to make a streamlined experience with conscious decisions in order for your software to be successful. Just because you personally want options doesn't mean that's how it should be. You are a minority. Same thought behind iOS and look at its success.

"Whereskarlo" Just because you personally want options doesn't mean that's how it should be. You nailed it !! Totally agree with you.

That is the only reason I use BBM. It is the big differentiator from all other chat systems. If someone turns off their read receipts then it is useless to me. I use BBM because I want to know my message has been read period! I don't care if they respond. I just want to know they got it. I want gaurentees in all cases not some. Otherwise I would use whatsapp or text messaging or even email. They are all the same in that regard. I won't know they have read it, till I get a response.

That is the precise reason I and many others will not use BBM. I want an option clear as the blue sky of switching the R off.
I do want to have the " power " of reading a message and not letting the other party know I have indeed read it.

It is not for others to decide whether I have or have not read their message.

No BBM for me or my friends.

it is, and to be fair, whenever the company I work for gives me a new phone and I start to roll it through my friends, if somehow I leave the company and finish my cellphone contract, someone else could get the same number in the future and maybe even harm my image by taking my personality. He could start sending bad information or even receive important information from my previous contacts if I don't tell everybody I will stop using that number.

Yes I have a friend that had to change their phone number for safety reasons and whatsapp held on to there old number but was communicating with the new number shocking my friend when the person they were trying to keep away started talking to them, immediately blocked but this is a flaw. The only way around was to blow away the app from the phone and reinstall with the new number. I have also seen only with iPhone thus far but the whatsapp message being sent from the iPhone shows one check then two but I won't receive the message for up to 90 minutes later, even though on the other end at the iPhone it shows that whatsapp has delivered the message to my phone

Obviously there are some swiss cheese holes with this app, and I can't wait for bbm on all devices as was said whatsapp is the best of the third party messaging apps but is only tolerable in its usability

From the Zed of Rockivy

All carriers do this. Numbers go into a quarantine for six to twelve months before being released.

Posted via CB10

All carriers reuse phone numbers. The problem is with WhatsApp, in that it uses phone numbers as a user ID and relies on users to change their WhatsApp phone number whenever they change (or give up) their mobile number. Worse yet, WhatsApp can keep working even when the WhatsApp phone number doesn't match the mobile number of the phone it's running on. This happens when the old mobile number hasn't yet been given out by the carrier to a new WhatsApp user. Because of this the original WhatsApp user doesn't realize there is a problem, as they still get their WhatsApp messages.
WhatsApp will sometimes verify it's running on a phone with a matching number, but it doesn't always do so.

Shocking big SECRET that's in the FAQ on Whatsapp's website :) Crackberry probably does not know what "secret" means.

In any case, there are other messaging apps besides BBM that have the "message read" notification (e.g. Kik)

but kik if you delete someone they can stil contact you wheres with bbm if you delete someone they cant carry on messaging you can decline if they try adding you i dont know why people try and say kik is better then bbm anyone who thinks so has cleary not used bbm even liveprofile is better then kik

What is not as shocking but useful is using the "last seen at..." in the header of the chat. If you send a message at ie. 3:55 and the receiver was "Last seen at 3:57" there is a good chance that they opened the message. Sure it's no "R" but it suffices for now. 2 checks plus the Last Seen after the message was received is basically good enough for me.
Also, the feature where it shows how many msgs from the user you missed when you open messages is very useful and should be incorporated into bbm. Blackberry shouldn't even feel bad about "borrowing" that from whatsapp considering whatsapp "borrowed" a lot more from BBM.

Actually whatsapp does have this feature just in a different way, it details the time that the person was last on your conversation, so you can tell if your message has been read because the time they were on will be after the time the message was sent, haven't known this to be false so far..

Kind Regards, Tino Chiko C0008DDD1 TechCraze!

i think its the last time they were in the app at all. generally they would've read the message, but not definitely .

That is the precise reason I and many others will not use BBM. I want an option clear as the blue sky of switching the R off.
I do want to have the " power " of reading a message and not letting the other party know I have indeed read it.

It is not for others to decide whether I have or have not read their message.

No BBM for me or my friends.

BIG secret?.. It's on the FAQ in their site.. Stop hating other platforms and admit BBRY is doomed to failure.. Once and again..

it was a secret cause im one that dosent read the FAQ. and I actually thought that the 2 check marks was actually READ. .

No hate, bro. Not for that. I'm just committed with BlackBerry for a long time. I'm just a supporter. And wish the brand all the best. Take care!

Posted via CB10

For real dude???? Nobody reads FAQ for anything anymore unless you're looking for something very specific. I'm sure 99% of people who used WhatsApp for the first time would initial think one check meant delivered and two meant read

Posted via CB10

While this is true, Whatsapp shows the last time someone was "online", which means the last time the person opened whatsapp. If it indicates "online" that means the person is currently in whatsapp.
Bad excuse if someone was/is online since your last message and is has two checkmarks and he still says he didn't read it ;)

Btw I think a lot of people actually hate the "r". I do understand - puts pressure on you to answer.

Posted via CB10

"Puts pressure on you to answer"
Which is why businesses will like their employees to have it....I think the BBM cross-platform idea is related to the BES10 being able to manage iOS and Androids....BB is trying to USE the BYOD movement, not fight it...they really have no choice

BBM is not for business. It is a social IM client. If BB doens't add a way to prevent the read receipt some people will choose not to use it. Not everyone wants their chat partner to know that they have or haven't read a message. I personally don't feel this way, but some of my friends do. BB needs to add this simple option to turn off read receipts.

My business depends on BBM, i use it to send demos to get tracks for sampling and a number of other "right now" tasks. My BBM groups are crucial for collaborating with other people on cues, call times, calendar events, and so on. BBM was made for business.

Sent from my iPuh-lease-as-IF

You are one person. Do you really believe that the move to go cross platform was to satisfy business users? And just because you use it for business, does not mean anything. My point is that they need to make the read receipts an option. Some people don't want it. You should be able to set it for each recipient too.

I think he was taking issue with the opening statements in your post: "BBM is not for business. It is a social IM client." This is demonstrably untrue. Many businesses rely heavily on BBM, and they want the read receipts.

Still, that doesn't negate your point that the Read receipt should probably be an option (that businesses can disable).

fair enough. Not sure what they had in mind when it was built, but it clearly can be used for business and people do use it for business.

BBM is used heavily for my small business as well, especially the group functions. BBM, it requires something of the recipient, this is a bad thing?

For me, no, it is not a bad thing. I like the read receipts. But you and I are not everyone and I respect other people's preferences to not send read receipts. BlackBerry should too if they want the highest adoption rates for BBM cross platform.

It brings messaging closer to a phone call or face to face. If txt or whatsapp were my only options, I would place a phone call for the important statements or questions that require a response. BBM keeps my recipients accountable, not sure if that's the right word to use, but they certainly can't read the message and then leave no response, similar to voice or in person. Which as a business owner and team leader, this is a huge deal for me, BBM is wonderful.

If it doesn't work for someone, they don't have to use it. BBRY cannot implement every function on its phone or apps like BBM to satisfy everyone.

You keep talking about "other people's preferences to not send read receipts", but if I may ask, do you have any factual survey or market research that would back up such assertion? Why do people make assumptions or jump to conclusions that often can't be substantiated with reliable statistical data?

That's fine, options are good. It's definitely built for business is all it was correcting.

Sent from my iPuh-lease-as-IF

I agree with RP Singh, I use BBM with almost all of the 14 companies I deal with daily. Some of them have a number of large groups for everything from sales, service, design and planning to contact with end customers. Business loves BBM and if you don't like the dirty R, you are a minority and have the choice to stay with Whats App

So let me understand this... your solution is to tell potential customers that instead of adding a simple option that other companies (Apple) include in their settings, we want you to use a competitors product. Sorry, but that is a bad business decision for BlackBerry. I think they should make a product that everyone will want, not what only some people will want (even if it is a minority).

Ya know, I hear and understand what you are saying, I really do. But you are going to have to show me where it is a majority of people who would be turned off of BBM because of the Dirty R. Otherwise my experience with BlackBerry, my Z10 is my 7th, and many years of using BBM for serious business and for pleasure as well, tells me otherwise. I would say that over the years I have had a few hundred BBM contacts and have 77 now, and have not once heard any of them say they wish there was no R, message read by receiver indicator, ever. But seriously, stay with or change to What's App or (Apple) This minor issue will never be a make or break thing for BBM's cross platform plans. It may not succeed but it won't be because of this silly thing LoL

If you give people the option to turn it off it will be pointless having it at all. Most of my customers hate the fact that Outlook gives the user the option to send a receipt or not...makes it a worthless feature.

Posted via CB10

If so many people turn it off that it becomes pointless, wouldn't that just prove my point that people may not want it. Is BlackBerry in the business of giving people what they want, or telling them what they should want. If a business determines that it is a must have feature, then they should be able to control it through BES and disable the option.

Still wondering how you seem to know the majority of BBM users are against it. Also how you are convinced it will be a make or break for anyone on other platforms to start using BBM. ?

The bbm groups in business are critical. I have several groups for information dissemination as well as field groups that use im for instant trouble shooting. Only a fool would think that it is used strictly for mindless babble.

Posted via CB10

so critical that many businesses are abandoning blackberry. Maybe I came off wrong here, but my point is that not everyone uses it for Business. And if you are going to claim that it is for something, I would argue that it is not FOR BUSINESS. It is for INSTANT MESSAGING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which may be business or just mindless babble as you call it. Of course, the reason I care about this topic is that I want BBM to suceed, and one thing I believe will be important to that sucess is being able to turn off the Read-Receipt notification. Not everyone wants that and not everyone will be using BBM for "critical" business functions.

Hi Chi-town,
Not looking to start too much of a fight but found this an interesting debate. What is your take on tools Like Cisco Jabber, MS Lync, and IBM Sametime. Since these clients can be federated with Gtalk and Yahoo, does that mean they are any less of a business tool? I think it was the consumers who made BBM appear to be a social connection. At the root or the heart of the tool it was meant to be a secure messaging with a better UI than PIN to PIN.with business in mind.

"Only a fool would think that it is used strictly for mindless babble."

What you probably ignore, due to whatever it is you do for a living that needs you to "trouble shoot" things, is a large corp that is highly regulated would most likely want all written conversations in an email.

Two examples of this would be Wall Street/Financial Services or Big Pharma here in the U.S. When I was on the street, BBM was discouraged with extreme prejudice on our BBs because compliance wanted to be able to access any worked related conversations we had.

Using BBM and getting caught could be grounds for dismissal. This is why most of us Wholesalers and many other folks carried a second phone for personal text messaging for years.

Reading is fundamental. Not shenanigans at all. I didn't said it couldn't be done. I said it was "discouraged". And I can get 150 Target Fund Wholesalers who will attest to this fact.

Some of you guys here should stop and take a moment before posting from the hip.

I can read. Perhaps you should read what you wrote. You posit the case that BBM shouldn't be used for business because communications need to be logged for compliance issues, implying that BBM can't be logged. If your company couldn't figure it out, that's not BlackBerry's problem

The always connected aspect of BBM and the Read Receipt are the 2 main features of BBM. Without the R, BBM wouldn't be what it is.

Posted via CB10

I'm not saying get rid of it. I'm saying add an option. If the goal is to get as many people using it as possible then this should be done. If the goal is to only get people who want read-receipts, then leave it the way it is. What do you think the goal should be?

what are you talking about?? BlackBerry is in trouble precisely because they WERE so focused on enterprise and ignored regular consumers...and BBM was a cornerstone of what set BlackBerry apart....sure BBM morphed into a social phenomenon (mostly in developing countries), but make no mistake about it...BBM's pedigree/roots is business

Posted via CB10

And many would argue the exact opposite: that the end didn't begin until RIM moved their focus away from the Enterprise and began embracing the consumer market by adding cameras (then a violation of many companies' security policies) and touchscreens (the wildly disastrous Storms) and flip-phones, and began the trend of ever-narrower, less BB-like keyboards, and diluted the portfolio with a dozen different simultaneous models.

BBM not for business, wait when the best Social e-Commerce Enterprise Brand Messenger BBM Channels comes cross platform ! Micro Enterprise $$

Posted via CB10

Puts pressure on you to answer? There isn't a difference if it shows the r or if you were said to be online at a later time than when the message was sent. Just a way to ensure liars have no excuses. U go online after receiving my message (whatsapp) or i see the r and i don't get a response, then you're nailed. That simple. I'm surprised to hear anyone mention that he thought double check meant read though....it only is the "delivery report"....and lastly, i prefer bbm for the r, for those who don't wanna put themselves under pressure, don't read the message...simple. Cos the sender wouldn't tell for sure that it's been read but if u go online after receiving, noone cares if u didn't read it, it's assumed u did....plus pins are quite private in this situation than numbers. that's a plus, aside that, i don't know how bbm is gonna crush the million whatsapp users swiftly. It's a game I'd love to see. And I wish bbm the best cos I lean towards bbm.

I agree about the perceived pressure for some folks to reply when the R is displayed to the other chatter, however my friends also realize that life outranks chat.

Posted via CB10

Agree with that. I never demand an answer on the basis that the message was read. If I require a response I say so.

Posted via CB10

Haha. There is an app for that. I'm still at a loss about the hate for the r. Who cares? For me, I see the r and know that my employees have received and read the information I sent, if I don't receive a response I know that there is no need to worry. I'm thinking that some people just don't want to be accountable for anything. Personal conversation included.

Posted via CB10

Add an option. I agree with what you are saying, but why not add an option. Some people want it, so add it. How hard is that? iMessage has it.

I always assumed it was a replacement for Delivered and Read. I suppose I owe a lot of "I know you read my message, Reply Already!" apologies to my android friends. lol

Their "last seen at" system is pretty shoddy too. Yesterday, I noticed that for one friend, her LSA time was earlier than the timestamp on the last message she had sent me. Wtf?

+1 it's hit or miss with these things on whatsapp... "last seen" could be an indication of "read" but not when you notice these things lol.

They did that on purpose. No one cares if the message got to the server just that it made it to the recipients phone. Shady.

I agree that it comes across as shady, as it actually makes the service seem faster than it is. When you think the first message is that it was delivered to the phone, but in reality it's just reaching their server, it's actually slower than it appears.

I've read the FAQ before, and they've said that since the beginning. This is the case of RTFM saves you lots of hassle.

But they do take advantage of the fact that virtually nobody Reads TFM, so yeah

STL 100-1 10.1.0.273

Precisely.
In Australia WhatsApp is probably king of all apps.

I've noticed that when sending to iPhone friends it takes a looooooonnnnnggggg time to reach their phone.

I've sent one to my friend 1 hour and 45 minutes ago, and it still only has 1 tick. Her phone isn't off, she used Facebook.

My Tech-Fleet: Q10; Z10; PlayBook; Surface Pro; Xbox 360; HP TouchPad; iPod Touch 5

Actually, I didn't. I don't read other BlackBerry sites on a regular basis nor pay attention to what they do. I focus on CrackBerry.

Also, we plan out our editorial calendars... had this one on my list to tackle for a while now. Scratched it off my list today.

Don't make the same mistake RIM did. They didn't pay attention to the competition, rested on their laurels and look what happened to them? lol

This isn't the biggest problem of Whatsapp. It's annoying, but I hate it far more that you have no control over who is able to Whatsapp you. Sure you can block numbers, but if a random person has your number but never messages you, he/she can still see your display picture and status.

There is no privacy control at all. There is no control who gets added to your Whatsapp contact list.

Because Whatsapp needs to be as 'open' as possible.

I seriously dislike that!

Second that. I don't like the fact that my phone number is connected to the WhatsApp account.

Posted via CB10 - Z10 STL100-2 Vodafone NL

You worried about privacy? What are you worried about? That someone sees your profile pic? You should be worried that the US goverment knows what colour your stool was this morning and not hating whatsapp. If you dont like it dont use it. BBM has lost their chance and they will never make up for it...

Mostly, I'm worried about my phonenumber getting in the wrong hands. I don't want to have to change that number just because I get bombarded with unwanted calls. And I use WhatsApp mainly because of its cross-platform ease of use, where so many of my contacts use it as their main interface, but not because I actually want to myself.
And sure, I also worry about privacy. The US government can kiss my scrotum, but my own government is very nosy.
As for BBM never making up for losing their chance, as you put it; time will tell. I dunno. What is for certain, however, is that a negative attitude like your own has accomplished exactly nothing throughout human history. That's okay, just let somebody else take the wheel, okay?

Negative attidute? Do dutch people know about disucussion? Do you know that over 250 million people use whatsapp? Do you think they use it becuase there is no other crossplatform app? There are plenty of crossplatform apps but people like whatsapp. You worried that your number doesnt get into the wrong hands? This I dont understand. Whatsapp sync's with your phone contacts, which means that everyone has your number already. Dont be a hater with no arguments....

Yes, we, the Dutch people, know about discussion. Have known for a couple of centuries or so. Which is why I gave you my reason for being less than enthousiastic about WhatsApp. Yes, you need to have my phone number before you can WhatsApp me, so on a contact-to-contact basis, you are correct. However, WhatsApp itself saves my phonenumber as well, which is ok until a) they sell that information or b) there is a security breach.
Then when my phone number is out there, I can expect all sorts of unwanted calls, from fraud to aggressive marketing. By contrast, if I can link an IM client to an e-mail account, I can choose to use a gmail account that I don't use for anything other than such accounts and not care if it gets bombarded with spam. It makes a difference to me. It is a valid argument for me, and laced with factual statements. I would call that discussion.

On the other hand, looking at your post history, it is hilarious to be called a hater by the likes of you. Really, I even consider it an honour. Because you are such a troll, it becomes funny! Please keep posting, the world needs all the whining, attention hungry biatches it can get!

omg - looks like you and itsyaboy travel in a pair. By all means what does my post history got to do with this topic lol??? You worried about someone selling your info? You have to stop using the internet bro. Maybe you havent heard but companies like facebook, google, twitter, probably their isnt a company that doesnt save your data, including BB. But looking at your aggressive stand toward anyone telling you that it will be hard to make people switch to a new crossplatform app, no use discussing. Btw I can see that the dutch discuss everything well for centuries. Did the dutch use the same discussion you are using when they colonized half of the world?

Seems you are running out of steam. I've stated my points clearly, and they don't see more matter to you, which is fine. I've also pointed out your reputation because I didn't want to let it slide to be called a hater for setting out a concern that to me is legitimate. Now that you have proven yourself to be exactly what I suggested, I think that we can agree that there is no benefit from discussing it further. See ya (but not if I see you first).

The only thing you proved is that you are discussing something you have no clue about. You are hating a good app (whatsapp) for no reason? The only reason you are stating is privacy. Privacy doesnt bother you in emails, facebook, twitter and the whole internet. So go and hate someother app or wait for BBM to come out so that you can message itsyaboy and maybe no one else. This article is trying to "spit" on whatsapp with the title being "dirty secret" and obviously you are one of the few primitive people who think that this is a good way to market BBM... This is one of the reasons BBM will never make it outside the BB community and will last as long as playbook lasted. Btw send me a whatsapp message next year when BBM has failed...

That is really my problem with Whatsapp. It automatically syncs EVERY contact in my contacts list to be used with Whatsapp and it saves every number for itself. So if I would have a phone number in my contact lists who doesn't use Whatsapp (yes there are still enough people who don't use Whatsapp) then their number is automatically forwarded to Whatsapp, just because I use it. What's up with that?

Furthermore, I don't want every phone number in my Whatsapp contact list. That should be my decision!

That's all well and good but without a better alternative, Whatsapp is what we will be using. How does BlackBerry intwnd to sway android and ios users to switch to BBM?

Posted via Q10 goodness!!

I must be missing something but I thought everyone knew this? Anyway, I've never once thought the second check was for "read".

And yes - that's why bbm is better.

I don't know anyone on bbm, currently (or own a BlackBerry phone, actually) but I imagine that will change with the cross platform rollout.

And I believe there is an option to prevent the "read" message being transmitted to the sender - is that correct or am I thinking of another platform?

Posted via CB10 on my BlackBerry Q10

to know if its read, look at the top bar and it says 'last seen' .then look at when you sent the msg...thats how i know if its been read.

I've always WhatsApp, battery and memory hog on BB7, won't bother installing it on BB10.

Btw I knew it and people didn't believe me, WhatsApp is misleading.

I've know this all along. I am with you Kevin. I have already started spreading the word and all my friends and relatives are eagerly awaiting BBM to make the switch.

Posted via CB10

My problem is that people use "Instant message" Systems when they do not want an instant answer. The dirty R should put pressure on you to respond because the Instant message was sent to create an instant answer. I had a boss who would BBM me constantly with vague questions, usually just as i leave the office at the end of my work day. I would pull the car over and type my response within a minute of receiving the first IM. I could see my message be sent, then delivered.... then ............ nothing. After waiting 2-5 minutes in the parking lot I would get back on the road and finish driving home before I get notification that she had read my response.
After 4 or 5 occurrences I was curious to find out if the problem was with BBM, the carrier delaying the messages, other cause. I decided to stay late and send her a BBM 5 min before my usual end time. She responded within 20 seconds of my initial request and i immediately responded to her. I then watched as she went outside for her regular smoke break leaving her phone on her desk. My message was delivered but could not be read as her phone was abandoned.
Basically she uses BBM as if it was email. frustrating

I only used Whatsapp with one user and now that she has a Z10 we are BBing again. I've told my non-BB friends that BBM is coming and most said that they will use it. At least in my world, it's looking like it's going to be successful. Which reminds me, gotta delete the Whatsapp from my phone.

One thing I hop get changed in BBM is picture sharing. I can send a quality image in WhatsApp, but they look like hell in BBM. And no, I don't want the hassle of having the recipient asking for high res. I want that by default.

Posted via CB10

I don't want that at all...
I like conserving my precious precious data allowance, especially when travelling.

Posted via CB10

That's interesting. I personally sort of like the way BBM does it, so long as the user knows they can request the HQ image. When people have limited data plans in some cases, just forcing to send them an HQ file is kind of a selfish thing if they don't want it. But if there was an option for the user to always say "accept HQ images when available", that would be good.

Good comment!

I agreed they disclosed it on he FAQ.

But the thing is when they designed the app the odds someone said " let's add two checks so that people know when the message gets to the server!" Is remote. They wanted to convey delivery and that it was read.

Exactly. They disclosed it... but for a LOT of users out there, they're not thinking that at all. It's totally under a veil.

Unless they made claim that the second check mark was a read confirmation they are not pulling the wool over users. That's just user's not taking the time to learn their tool.

Personally I like the what's app implementation over bbm. I've always hated the r feature of bbm.

Ya it's normal

The first mark means that the message was sent

The second mark means that the message was received but not read

It's something and known by all.

Posted via CB10

Now this something that I like to read in the morning. I haven't used Whatsapp so I have no idea what's in the tutorial but this all music to me as I force BBM onto people I know. I see that R!

I believed that too until my friend told me that 2 checks mean delivered =="

They should've announced it, at least...

i see a cross platform bbm stress test in the future.. i wonder if they increased the limit to the number of contacts you can have..

there will always be pretenders to the thrown, when there is only one. BBM!

Well played, Kevin, well played. Oddly enough, don't people pay for Whatsapp? So is it really the poor man's version of BBM, or rather, the rich man being swindled by an inferior app in lieu of BBM?

I want BBM back in my life so bad. I really need a Q10.

what is so BIG and dirty here? almost everyone knew this already... you can always check their "last seen" to guess whether your messages have been read

Don't be an ass. This was news for me. And I'm sure I'm not alone.

Posted via CB10 on my ZedTen!

"to guess whether your messages have been read"... to guess... that's the issue with Whatsapp and its functionality regarding sent, delivered and actually read (without having to guess).

I get that BBM (in its current form on Blackberry devices, who knows if it will get watered down for other platforms) is technically superior to Whatsapp. However, Whatsapp has now claimed the title of being the default option in my social circles.

A new challenger has to be leaps and bounds better before a critical mass will switch over. The network effect advantage Whatsapp has over BBM is insurmountable at this point IMO and this is nothing more than too little too late.

Also doesn't help that there probably won't be a Windows Phone version in the forseeable future, my current platform of choice after I got burnt by the whole PlayBook fiasco.

Who ever still have this question not answer is because don't do their homework!!

Very old news!!

#BB10Believe #BlackBerryNation #BB10Army #BB10Freak #TeamBlackberry #KeepMoving #BBMCrossPlatform

I'm MongezaurioBerry

BBM will rock it when it comes.

I still only have 2 friends on Whatsapp. I have 8 on BBM. Going to send invites to everyone for BBM.

Posted via CB10

BlackBerry needs to try to find a way to make it easy for BlackBerry users to invite their lives non-bb contacts to BBM. Perhaps a scan function of contacts that allows for the creation of a list where contacts can be invited. It already exists in BBM for BlackBerry contacts. It may be that there are contacts you want to invite and others you don't so a check box might be needed. Anyway, whatever is decided BlackBerry needs to get the word out and should give current BlackBerry users the option to help with that.

Posted via CB10

AND a super simple and easy to register new users because people don't like a lengthy registration process especially the goal here is to gain as many registered users as possible.

Honestlyi really cant believe someone out there didn't know about that one.

C0001BBF0 - BlackBerry 10 help channel.

I knew that the double check meant nothing I just wasn't happy with the KIK sideload. What I can't stand is the inability of Whatsapp to work on a Z10. It seems to me that it can't handle going from landscape to portrait and back again. It freezes at least twice a day. Not impressed. Can't wait for BBM to be available for other OSs.

Great Article Kevin,

One thing you didn't address though is the fact that bbm is a native app that has always run on an os designed by BlackBerry. We don't know yet if bbm will be able to maintain the same functionality that we know and love on iOS and Android as they could be restricted by API access or other os limitations - though I'm hopeful!

Posted via CB10

I have 53 on WhatsApp and 7 on BBM.

Soon hopefully 100+ on BBM. I am getting all my students to download BBM.

My Tech-Fleet: Q10; Z10; PlayBook; Surface Pro; Xbox 360; HP TouchPad; iPod Touch 5

The one thing I loved about whatsapp and the only thing is you could send larger files sending video or music is a hassle on bbm

Posted via Z10

I have WhatsApp but I only have a few friends on it. Mainly I message my wife when I am at work because I don't have reliable cell coverage, and works wifi is all we have. However, for whatever reason, WhatsApp struggles at time and it can take ages to send messages and receive them. Yet BBM works perfectly. So I am looking forward to BBM been cross platform because I will have a more reliable form of communication.

Posted via CB10

Big dirty secret
Do you guys know that when you turn your lights off your house still has power? Stay tuned. More to come!

Posted via CB10

Yeah its pretty known they tell you this wasn't needed.You know what dont talk about whatsapp and its faults your agenda is pretty obvious.Just leave it alone and let BBM downloads do the talking.

So many people can't wait for bbm. The paid negative bashers will say anything regardless how foolish they sound. People just love the D and R.

Posted via CB10

This story reminds me when a girl in my class years ago stood up and said she believes the Blair witch project was a hoax.

Posted via CB10

Forgot I had restored the Z10 and the correction and prediction system is crazy aggressive lol. That was supposed to say "you mean it's not real"

Posted via CB10

That story reminds ME of when I overheard two high school students coming out of a movie theater saying, "Dude! Wouldn't it be awesome if real-life was 3D?"
Yeah

Do you people actually think there's such a thing as paid bashers? Do you use Reynolds wrap for your tin foil hats or alcoa?

Posted via CB10

Alcoa owns Reynolds. And it's aluminum not tin. I just trolled you with facts. That should be a rule for trolling. Lol

Posted via CB10

First of all, don't compare something that has millions of users with something that just came out in beta, people here won't give a damn. You know as well as I do people on this forum have got bbm's back whether they admit it or not. We all want BlackBerry Messenger to do well.
Secondly, what would be really interesting to see this article on an apple and android forum and see how people on that forum will react to your words. Barking at your own back yard won't get you anywhere.

It's true. Even though I'm excited for cross-platform BBM but there is no guarantee it will catch on. we have to wait and see.

No me gusta que me pidan mi "whatsapp" y que automáticamente tengan mi numero de teléfono. O personas que no conozco puedan agregarme con solo tener mi numero. No les pasa a ustedes?

BBM is one of, if not THE best messaging app. It sets the bar where the competition should be. it's private too, better than giving out your phone number that's for sure (hate whatsapp for that reason). Going cross platform, hopefully those who've never tried it will see for themselves why we get addicted to it. It's simple, practical and most importantly it works.

I suspected something wasn't right but glad you thoroughly explained it. WhatsApp is definitely lacking in that dept and also the real time online feature lags a bit too. Good points Kevin!

What dumb rear-end thought that two check marks mean their message was read? Everyone knows it doesn't mean that. Well I thought everyone knew up on 'til now... Smh

There's obviously a lot of people didn't know that. Read the comments. I didn't know it. So we get a confirmation it was sent to the server? And then a confirmation it was sent to the phone? Well that's just dumb.

Posted via CB10

Didn't know that, thanks for the heads up!

Any idea if BBM is coming to Windows Phone also? I have a few friends on the WP platform, and if BBM isn't on their, I'll still end up having to use WhatsApp (as it is the only way to get a group conversation going with all mobile platforms right now).

People have stalked me on Whatsapp as well... Just added my number without me knowing theirs. They read my statuses and view my profile pics. I stop putting up Statuses and profile pics now

One of the features of BBM that I like the most is the ability to request a high quality version of an image that was sent to me. BBM by default sent a low resolution version of an image; however, you can tap and hold on the image you really like and request for an HQ version of it. The original sender will get a notice and click Accept. A high resolution version of that image will be sent to you. You can do that with simple MMS message. Can whatsapp do that. I don't use whatsapp so I don't know. This feature should be included in the very FIRST version of cross-platform BBM.

Personally this is not my issue with whatsapp. My biggest issue is the following....

I want to have a conversion with person A, in BBM I can still have a conversation with person A while completely ignoring person B who I don't want to speak to and is a tempting to speak to me. In whatsapp this is not possible.

The whole freaking world has to know when you were "last seen" and when you're "online". So tell me how are u going to converse with person A and ignore person B in whatsapp. On BBM you can simply look at person B's reply through the hub and ignore it. Guess what? The message stays at D. I can then easily speak with person A while person B doesn't know if I read his message or not.

With whatsapp there is no escape. This (invasion of privacy), at least for us BlackBerry users and possible Android users is the main point CrackBerry should be focusing on not D and R. Might be mistaken but iOS is the only platform were one can disable last seen crap BUT can't escape "online"

Posted via CB10

This +1000. I hate the way Whatapp tells everyone you are on-line. I have had instances when I was trying to get something constructive done on Converation A and the person on Conversation B kept sending me messages stating 'I know you are on-line, why are you not replying?' Never have that issue with BBM, I just choose not read the message when I am busy with work related items. Privacy is a huge concern for me with WhatsApp also and it will be deleted from my phone as soon as BBM goes live cross platform.

i guess only idiots will think like this haha, it is surely two checks is delivered not read.. i thought this has been known by most users long long time ago..
even in the Whatsapp FAQ it is already stated what that meant lol

Completely agree with you Kevin. BBM is such a superior and a complete product...I am sure it will prove to be more than handy as soon as it is released on multiple platforms..Power to BlackBerry!

Posted via CB10

Shocking... and I've never been truly a whatsapp fan. I use it more so as their is no alternative, as I'm not happy with the fact that I have to give my telephone number out to engage a contact. I so rather a PIN environment, and look forward to that. Oh wait!! BBM is coming across platform soon. YES, bring it on BlackBerry as you are needed..

Once you go Black, you don't go back. Q10 baby.

Here in the Netherlands people will laugh at me so loud for recommending BBM instead of WhatsApp the Read confirmation won't be necessary at all...

Posted via CB10

WhatsApp is a terrible application. My friend has it on his Z10 and it truly blows, he sort of "needs" it for an international iPhone friend, but can't wait for his non BlackBerry friends to be able to use BBM instead. Everybody who tries BBM will agree, it slays every other IM.

Posted via CB10

BBM is superior to whatscrapp in every single way. Why? Because whatscrapp sucks and blows simultaneously - making it a truly uncomfortable user experience. I mean, really? People use that garbage? It just goes to show the low level of intelligence people operate on is as equally low as the quality of whatscrapp.

Posted via CB10

seriously Kavin????
you didnt know of this untill now????
this is like this since it was first built so BB shouldn't be able to sue them due the same exact product!
come on Kavin

if its a `BIG secret` then why do they explain it the FAQ? seems an overblown article.

I respect kevin a lot, but `the secret is what they told us already` just is wrong

I'm arguing with you right now about this on BBM... and now I just read your comment. Funny. 

So, I didn't write "Whatsapp's dirty BIG secret".  If I wrote the headline that way, then I'd be implying that Whatsapp was hiding something, which is not the case as it's disclosed. I wrote the headline in such a way that it's a secret of Whatsapp. That's from the user perpspective.

Take my fiancee for example.. who's used iMessage and BBM and knows the D / R well... she assumed that the two checkmarks meant read as that's the standard experience you'd expect from other established platforms. So to her, when I told her that it didn't mean read, she was surprised. To her it was secret.. it wasn't built into the app. She's not going to go to a website to read an FAQ. So I'm in the clear here. ALSO... this was a PSA of sorts. Public service announcement. Read above.. lots of people were aware of this. Lots were not. So I'm making people aware. Knowledge is power. Not overblown. 

+1

Everyone saying everyone knew this? Maybe read other people's posts? Realistically, a delivered receipt, and a read receipt makes sense. Has use.

A delivered receipt, and a second delivered receipt? What's the point of that? Someone that didn't read the faq is supposed to assume this? C'mon....

Posted via CB10

Your article is very clearly making it sound like WhatsApp is trying to cover something up, when they have very CLEARLY mentioned what the check marks mean. If your fiancee didn't know that then that's on her, not whatsapp.

BBM is the definition of messaging. It will soon be the definition of true communication and social networking. Huge future. Whatscrapp is a serious waste of time. Whatscrapp is the fisher price of messaging.

Posted via CB10

What's even more confusing is that this doesn't work the same way for iOS users... cause if you send a message to iOS users, 1 checkmark can mean that it was received by servers and delivered to device... depending on if the app is open or not.

Posted via CB10

100% agree. WhatsCrap is simply tolerable. BBM is still the best out there. Text messaging feels like your msg just gets lost in space sometimes. Wish they had gone cross platform long ago but I am happy Ill be able to better communicate with my iOS family members overseas now

dude...it goes through....the INTERNET.....to get where it needs to go.....NO DUH IT GETS LOST IN SPACE....IT'S CALLED THE INTERNET.

my girlfriend and I move to Android after blackberry dashed Our PlayBook dreams but boy oh boy Do we miss bbm
I've tried everything nothing beats bbm

BBM 's read feature is cool...
So that we come to know whether my message has been seen by the recipient :)

Posted via the awesome z10 using CB10

BBM fanboys you need to quit your bitching. Seriously. You're hating on something that stole your fanbase because of 2 simple reasons

1: BB in general has been out of date for AGES now the last BB to be released was so under powered compared to standard phones of that year it could have been mistaken for an old style flip phone when you compared the 2.
2: now that they are trying to play catch up with BB10 (what the fuck happened to BB2-9 by the way?) the phone they are releasing and announced almost a year ago is now officially by current standards what? UNDER POWERED. It's using a soon to be old chip set regardless of what they say.

Honestly BB would be better off at this point just making a pay for IM service. Oh and they should quit their bitching because honestly while they were still in the stone ages of smart phones other people were innovating and creating a new experience for people. WhatsAPP did just that because it's actually better than the BBM service.

You have your opinion, we have ours. Having used both, I feel BBM blows Whatsapp out of the water for several reasons, many of which have already been mentioned here.

As for the R, it should remain as is. I want to know if my message was read. Period.

well my friend suggested i join simply because i'm a smart phone user and i like to be kept up to date. This article came up randomly so i decided to comment. Care to pass judgement on me for that? please do so because honestly i couldn't care less.

No, I think it's awesome. Welcome to CrackBerry and Mobile Nations. Now that you're a member you can also participate on AndroidCentral.com, iMore.com and WPCentral.com. Just click over to those sites and click login and you're logged in automatically.. no need to create new accounts. 

i already have an androidcentral.com account and yeah i know about iMore.com and WPCentral.com but i refuse to touch those 2 simply because i hate microsoft and apple. I'll keep up to date through youtube rather than the articles because i know every article they release on those sites will piss me off beyond belief.

I knew this long long ago via whatsapp website. But usually the 2nd check only comes when the other person opens whats app which means they read it usually. so its messed up.

bro!! everybody knows that one tick means message has been delivered to the server and two ticks means that it has been delivered to the phone. I know that BBM is coming to iOS & Android and you are just trying to make a market for the BBM just like any other die hard BB fan would do, believe me I myself am a die hard Blackberry fan, but this post of your makes no sense at all in fact its stupid.
I guess you probably thought most ppl just read the heading and the not the whole content so why not take a dig at whatsapp. If you are really want to bash whatsapp take real issues in consideration like Loss of Privacy, some times you have to give out your number to hundreds of ppl due to business or other social actives etc. and what happens is that those people can see your personal pics your last seen time etc. even if you don't know them at all.

False, "everybody" doesn't know. You'd find that most people (if they used bbm, or iMessage) first, think its 1 delivered and 2 read. ive been using BB's for years and thought the same when i first started using whatsapp.

that's your fault then, not whatsapp's
FYI I myself have been using BBM for couple of years along with whatsapp but never have mis - understood the delivery system of either of these, may be kevin posted this article for slow retards like you. Hey! kevin I get it know its for slow people sorry for my harsh comments.

Slow retards? oh i get it, you're one of "those" guys huh? felt attacked, figured you'd try to put the attacker down. Hey, if it works for you, go in.

BBM: Sent > D > R.
iMessage: Sent > Delivered > Read
Whatsapp: Sent > Delivered to server > Delivered to phone(still not seen nor read)

Yeah, everyone(myself included) is a retard to think the second notification meant the message was read.

you should read the faq on whatsapp website before assuming things, only dumbos like you assume things and then call yourselves superior, buddy you can go on assuming anything you want but dn't try to put the blame on others

What's with the name calling? Do you get off on that? Dumbo? Believe me, I'm a lot more intelligent than you are clearly giving me credit for.

I never claimed to be superior to anyone, all I was pointing out was that not "everyone" knows that like you assumed. I know it, and have for years but I didn't when I FIRST started using WhatsApp,
I'll go out on a limb and assume you're an adult and as an adult know that not everyone reads the FAQ's to everything they use, always, and that they would assume that it work like the very app it seems to mimic.

But I do apologise for being such a dumb slow retard as you have referred to me as, I will never not know anything again thanks to your wise words.

well learn a lesson read the faq/user guide, did not mean to hurt you, if I did I apologize for that. TC mate

Kevin, your article is based on a premise that I'm not sure is correct. Who said that I, as a user, want to have whoever I'm texting know when I've read their message or not. You keep referencing the R in BBM as a "feature," I find it an annoyance and would turn it off if I could. With iMessage, you do have the option to not send a read receipt. It would be interesting to see the data on how many people choose not to send read receipts, but I can safely guess the majority choose not to send the R. I have an iPhone now, and out of all the contacts who I text using iMessage (which is the majority now btw), only one contact chooses to send read receipts.

BBM is not the ideal solution in that the OS is imposing on the user how to use the device, not the user being able to adapt their device to use in the way that best works for the user. I remember with BBM (had BB for 5 years), I would avoid opening a BBM just so that I can respond later because I did not have time to respond right then and there. But there is still value in reading the response and being able to respond later without the other side knowing you read their message and chose not to respond.

Whatsapp was once an inferior option to BBM, it has far surpassed it now. It works the way you need it to work, not the other way around.

BlackBerry released BBM betan today ...

BlackBerry missed the schedule and a golden launch windows (back to school).

Now I can only hope BB doesn't miss the quality.

"Half baked and Buggy" has gradually become the icon of BlackBerry since 2007, partly as a result of the big and unfair anti-BlackBerry movement that culminated in 2006 in U.S.

I hope the cross platform BBM has high quality and is fully baked. By "fully baked" I don't mean it has all the features. It is perfectly OK not to have voice and video for now. But for what it does provide it must provide them in complete. This is an opportunity for BlackBerry to get rid of the "Half baked and Buggy" badge; This is an opportunity for RIM to fairly fight back against the anti-BB movement. Yet, it could be a big flaw that permanently sink BB.

One month for Beta (usually means Alpha quality in today's BB vocabulary) is definitely NOT enough for a reliable real-time messaging system. So, to this point, BB lovers need to have patience to allow BB to take extra 2 to 3 months to fully bake it and achieve the highest quality of all - even higher than the original BBM despite the difficulties.

Let's make a loud and clear voice here:

BlackBerry can afford no mistake on cross platform BBM!!!

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