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What the iPhone 5 means to BlackBerry

By Kevin Michaluk on 14 Sep 2012 03:14 pm EDT
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Apple announced the iPhone 5 earlier this week. The big surprise this time around was the complete lack of any surprise. With a lot of help from iMore team, who accurately exposed most of the details, pretty much *everything* was known about this phone before Apple CEO Tim Cook and his crew took to the stage. 

I'm not saying the iPhone 5 is a bad product, just to be clear.  It's an inevitable evolution on the product that has come to define Apple.  It's not obvious to the casual observer, but Apple really did redesign the phone from the ground up.  They just kept a very similar form factor.  I guess if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?  

In a nutshell, what Apple unveiled with the iPhone 5 is a better iPhone.  They are not really making the existing mobile experience that much better.  It's not a game changer for the company.  Even from a software perspective, the world was shown what iOS6 could do back at WWDC. Obviously Apple remains very well positioned in the market and the new iPhone 5 is going to sell well. Apple will continue to make oodles of cash. But this is a BlackBerry site and the question to be discussed is what does the iPhone 5 mean to Research In Motion's roll out of BlackBerry 10?  

Leading up to the Apple keynote, my biggest fear for BlackBerry was that Apple would show off an iPhone that actually offered an improved mobile experience. But they didn't. Thinking back to our recent 10 things we're Looking Forward to in BlackBerry 10 so far post, the iPhone 5 doesn't step on any of BlackBerry 10's toes. RIM's differentiation and positioning of BlackBerry 10 is just as unique and strong with the iPhone 5 on the market as it was when the iPhone 4S was Apple's flagship iPhone. The sooner BlackBerry 10 hits the market the better, but the fact that the iPhone 5 has landed first doesn't hurt RIM's chances of launching BlackBerry 10 successfully. This isn't some reactive comment either.  Back in June I explained my view that it doesn't matter if the iPhone 5 launches before BlackBerry 10.  

BlackBerry 10 isn't going to outsell the iPhone at launch.  Nobody expects it to, and RIM doesn't need this to be successful. And I'm not looking for an iClone. I'm looking for a better BlackBerry experience. RIM just needs to deliver a solid product and market its strong message that BlackBerry people get stuff done. As we saw on Wednesday, even CNBC's tech reporter covered the iPhone launch event with his BlackBerry because its messaging capabilities are far superior.

Notice that Apple didn't focus on improving the user interface in iOS or on enabling multitasking.  These are RIM core strengths.  They will allow BlackBerry 10 to stand out.  The "flow" of experience of BlackBerry 10 will stand out. These are the kinds of things that will cause some people to come back to BlackBerry even if they've been trying Android or Apple products.  Just take a look at the poll results from Crackberry Nation. RIM needs to make sure it has a sufficient app and content ecosystem story to tell when BlackBerry 10 phones hit the market, but from a hardware and operating system standpoint, things are almost looking better for BlackBerry post iPhone 5 than they did before. 

The playing field is starting to level out now.  When Steve Jobs first announced the iPhone he said Apple was 5 years ahead of the competition.  He may have been right about that lead.  But I think it's safe to say the gap is closing. Just take a look at these comparisons of the iPhone 5 versus the Lumia 920 and the iPhone 5 vs. the Samsung Galaxy S3. RIM obviously has to jump back in the game here.  They've been sitting on the sidelines for a while, hoping products like the Bold 9900 would compete for the time being.  But that hasn't been working out as well as it needs to and we're all excited to see the official launch of BlackBerry 10.  

The bottom line is that Apple hasn't changed things much with its iPhone 5.  RIM's challenges and opportunites are the same in an iPhone 5 world as they were in a iPhone 4S world. The people who want to buy Apple products will still buy Apple products.  Those who prefer the BlackBerry user experience are still going to buy BB10. And I can understand why.  The amazing virtual keyboard (and choice of a physical keyboard!), the "flow" experience, the TRUE one-handed UI design, the solid multitasking ... that's what I want. I want a mobile experience that's saving me seconds every time I pick it up and use it. And that's what BlackBerry 10 is about.

Must-Read Related Article: 10 Things We're Looking Forward to in BlackBerry 10 So Far

Reader comments

What the iPhone 5 means to BlackBerry

189 Comments

"...from a hardware and operating system standpoint, things are almost looking better for BlackBerry post iPhone 5 than they did before."

Knowing Kevin has seen the hardware and OS, one can imply the BB10 phones will surpass the iPhone 5 in his view.

How many BB10 devices does RIM need to sell through for the launch to be a success?

As I understand it, the first stock of iPhone 5 is already sold out, and a 2-3 week window for delivery if you pre-order one today.

RIM has a huge hill to climb here. The sales numbers are going to have to be very, very impressive to truly make a dent in the market at this point.

Agreed. Kevin is comparing the two platforms/devices as if one being better than the other makes it a winner. It doesn't.

Apple just sold a load of iPhones to people who were potential BlackBerry customers. They won't be for another 2 years (3 in some countries) since they've all just signed new contracts. RIM stating that the holiday season isn't important is bogus... you're not competing for attention if you're in a saturated market with the best product. But you're missing out on sales if you don't even present yourself.

RIM should have scheduled a launch event for the end of September to show people what is coming in BB10. Some will say "yeah but we have to wait 3 months" while others will at least say "it's worth waiting for, no iPhone for me."

Poor strategy from our friends in Waterloo. Delays are one thing but they don't have to affect perception if you use them to your advantage.

"BB10. Worth the wait."

Basically I partly agree.
The strong feeling is BB10 hasn't landed purely because it is not ready. There isnt much RIM can do about that.
The iPhone 5 has MET expectations thus far in terms of expected features and selling out on pre-orders. The next thing will be behaving as Apple claims as reviews roll in.
It will sell bucket loads, it will be amazing if it didn't based purely on how its currently percived.
As for RIM, I stronglt think they need to launch the OS before year end. The beauty of that is noone actually has to try it until the first device ships. This launch would be geared towards reminding people it is coming and would only show half the features, with the rest coming with the first device.
There is no need of a knee jerk reaction to an iPhone event. Anyone remember RIM showing the PB a day before the iPad 2 launch? That didn't really work. Nokia harmed a perfectly capable device's chances by launching it without OS availability dates, leaving everyone wondering what exactly they were doing. No OS no device, we all know that.

@supraking - I think you're way off here. Kevin is saying the iphone is different than BB10, not better or worse. 

 

 and RIM never ever said the holidays are unimportant. They said they missed the windows. HUGE difference. 

RIM missed the back-to-school season and holiday sales season for smartphones and tablet. Pure and simple. Management couldn't find their azz if it wasn't always located at the end of their arms. The boring hardware designs leaked on this forum make the all-touch devices indistinguishable from the myriad of Android-based smartphones.

You are forgetting that there are lots of people with contracts coming due in January vs Sept... Yes, there are more people buying things like phones in Oct->Dec than Jan->Mar but it isn't like the market is gone because they didn't make the Christmas season. As has been repeated here ad nauseum, the worst thing they could do is send something out that isn't ready for prime time. This is their last shot, they need to get it right.

The BlackBerry 10 smartphones should have been ready for prime-time release in August 2012. The CEO announced as much in May 2012 and only a few weeks later suddenly neither the hardware nor software would be ready. The CEO lost any credibility at that point.

Previewing too far out is a poor strategy. Look what happened to Nokia last week--they rushed photo and video demos and it came back to bite them in the butt. Big time.

For one thing, RIM has little credibility with the buying public right now, particularly those who remember that "60 day" promise for native e-mail and BBOS emulation on the Playbook.

For another, it comes across as desperation. BB10 isn't likely to turn the heads of a lot of casual buyers on launch. RIM is going to be depending on its enterprise and "enthusiast" (read: "us") markets to adopt early and spread the word. People might actually have to see BB10 in action before they're convinced.

The market RIM needs to aim for is the user whose 9790 is up for renewal in 6 months, not the guy who will be lining up at the Apple store next week.

We can write here what we whant , but here the fact is are you gelouse that there is so many user of iphone or not? yes many go now for the new iphone 5 and also many will change for nokia 920 or samsung s lll or blackberry 10 . For me if apple start to copy the other for big screen now , then they are slowly finish on smartphone ... if they make a real new phone designe with new ios 7 with new icons etc.....then maybe they go a longe way on smartphone business. Nokia before makes the same way but on every way there is an start point and end point...sorry fot my english . And yes blackberry 10 comming to late im a blackberry user for longe time i can wait but others young users they cant...young users like to show to friends what nice gadgets they buy and use....today users forget soon labels if tgey are not on daily market...buy

No offense, but while you were at a computer, you COULD have used a spellchecker to ensure all typos were corrected. I could barely understand a thing you were typing and had to stop reading it.

@raremage I disagree and I think Kevin does based on his statement about relative success.

Philip Seymore Hoffman doesn't make as much money as Will Smith, but by any measure, he's a talented success.

You appear to place too much emphasis on being #1, which a lot of analysts and investors do also, but you are simply wrong in the way you define "success", WADR.

Sorry, either you misunderstood my point, or I wasn't clear. What I meant was, how much sell through is required for the launch to be a success for RIM, not that there had to be more sell through than the iPhone 5.

Is it a million pre-orders? What's the number for BB10's launch to be a success, rather than a disappointment?

Take the original Playbook launch as an example - 50,000 on launch day, and 500,000 units in the first quarter. RIM projected 2.4 million units in the second quarter, and a target that was later adjusted down to ~900,000 units - which was further lowered to just 200,000 units after the second quarter reporting was in.

That's a disappointment no matter how you spin it. I'm not comparing that number to any other tablet, but to the plan versus results.

My hope is it's an estimate and a plan that is both high enough to impress the trade press and exceeded by the actual results.

Looks like iPhone might be reaching the beginning of the end of its innovative advantage, by not introducing many new features.

Move over iPhone and make room for BB10!!!
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Tablets are incredible

Yup

2 million sold in 24 hours

Takes Rim a whole 3 months to move like 8 million fons and most are sitting on shelves or sold for zero $...they can't give their shit away.

Proof is in the pudding

Get ready for sept 27 when rim stock goes below $5

and knowing this he still won't leak the info to us :(

i'll take your punishment kevin i want to know how bitchen BB10 is :P

The BB10 OS and the hardware maybe great, but RIM's not a great consumer brand. Over decades, Apple has established itself as a leader in this market. The company is known and loved by consumers for its innovations and great products that they love to the point of gushing. They are recognized for reimagining and redefining the mobile phone market that competitors now are, so called, innovating. Additionally, Apple created the iPod, iPad and the Macbook Air. All of which are encouraging competition. Trying to one-up Apple on hardware and features won't be enough in this consumer environment. Instead of concentrating on beating Apple, RIM should concentrate on the consumer and creating a great consumer experience. Afterall, Apple is not RIM's target audience.

Are you guys on crack?

You guys are in a bubble!

Maybe the few diehard bb fans and india and indonesia will wait for bb10 but the rest of the world has moved on fellas!

Rim is bleeding users and if bb10 Os and hardware isn't great and I mean it has to be great just to get by they are finished!

There is no room for a flop release like the storm or playbook.

Releasing a new phone with all brand new Os in January is another bone head move like releasing the Playbook without email.

Are they trying to kill the company or just stupid?

Nobody rolls out a new product in Jan!

The fact is people won't and can't get excited in Jan to buy a phone when the masses have tapped themselves out for the holiday season the month before. Not to mention every other company will have new flagship devices released for holidays, there simply will be no dollars left over for bb.

If I was a shareholder I would be furious.

I think they are just plain stupid. The new iOS is years ahead of BB10 plus it has apps. Android is catching up though. Only die hard fans are sticking around and living in denial. I have moved on using both the iOS and Android platforms. It took me a few weeks to get use to it but I can say it was the best decision, one that took me more than a year to make.

Not even years ahead. Wait and see what bb10 has to offer. Morty's a mortition, he doesn't know much at all and probably hasn't used a spellcheckup in years on his finger's health.

Explain what iOS is years ahead of the competition, same for the iphone 5. Android, blackberry and windows phone already had what iOS re/introduced just last week. IOS doesn't even have NFC.

IOS is years ahead of what? The new Iphone 5 is a joke with no real innovation and the same old boring crap that has been in it since iphone4. It's becoming clearly obvious Apple has nothing left they can do with the OS and will now be on the down slide. The IOS platform is OLD and Worn out.

Where is the NFC support? Walmart is already testing it out and will be online in 2013 (many others are testing as well). Maybe the iphone 10 will support it? No vision with Apple..

Apple can only go down from here and good riddance. Tired of the fan boys bragging how good a inferior phone really is. Compare anything out there now and Apple is truly behind.

Sheep will always buy apple cause it's a NEW release. But when it comes down to it who the hell wants a iphone 5 if you own a 4s. There is no real benefit to a owning a lack luster phone besides the price tag!

You have not seen BB10 in action vs your beloved Apple. There is more to a phone then Apps. Furthermore 85% of apples apps are truly garbage slapped together in 10 minutes. I bet you can't name 30 apps you use daily that have any real substance.

You can keep your fart apps, fake lighter, flashlight, and whatever other stupid apps you use. Going to be a nice ride watching apple finally crumble, as they have nothing left in the pipe to WOW consumers anymore. Iphone will go the way of the Apple TV sooner or later...

Sent from my Playbook

Wow,

That's a long post, how many times did u have to reboot the playbook?

Where do you see innovation? The Playbook? the Storm? The 9900?

NFC is 2 years away, Google can't get it going and I know Rim won't be able to get companies on board for their dwindling user base.

Bb 10 is vapor wear right now and even when it comes out I can't see apple users or android users jumping ver to a sinking ship.

I bet the phone will look dated and Os wont be fully baked until summer at best.

Good luck to you.

Don't post when you're high on LSD buddy because you just made yourself look like a low grade moron in front of the world.
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Tablets are incredible

BB10 will be well ahead of already old and outdated iphone5. My SG3 is already ahead of the old and outdated iphone5. Apple appeals to the weak minded masses who like to repeat what the TV told them to say.

+1

Something that we should all consider is the customer base that Apple has appealed to the most. While there are some folks who are able to transact their businesses on the iPhone, most corporates & serious business users prefer the blackberry for obvious reasons (read as email, BBM, connectivity, keyboard, etc)

The iPhone on the other hand appeals more to the younger generation, read as, school & college kids who have little to do with serious business.(Maybe something that RIM could explore too eventually).

Agree about the eco system, but also believe that RIM is putting in the effort to get the eco system for BB10 in place. Have not really come across any other company putting in the effort that these guys at RIM are putting in (count the number of JAD sessions, etc)

At the end of it, apple is what it is after 5 years of making an innovation. The fact that we are expecting RIM to crash Apple's party at one go is only setting extremely high expectations from where RIM can only fail. It would probably make sense to see where RIM is going to be in 5 years post the BB10 release & I believe that they'll probably have beaten Apple or for that matter, Android hollow.

Launch.... and deliver!

The PlayBook had (and still has) some great potential. BUT it lack the applications and content to make it in the tablet market.

I hope that RIM has LEARNED a lesson, and is working to deliver a fully functioning platform on release day.

This is absolutely correct. As Bill Gates said a couple of months ago that we live in a software world. I wanted to be a bb fan so I got myself a bold 9900 and a playbook. What a disappointing experience it has been!! Unfortunately not everyone in the world has a bb so the bbm is useless, it has no skype,no viber, the playbook no decent pdf software... the speed on the 9900 is scandalous,the battery ensures a frustrating experience. But I still hope that bb10 will pick up the pieces and save those who started the smartphone. But, to be realistic, without the software together with the speed, the bb10 will be like a ferrari that has no wheels..it is perfect but will go nowhere. I still want to be a bb user, but I will not fool myself... let's see what the great bb10 has to offer.

You are the first person I've heard saying the playbook and the bold 9900 combo is a disappointment. Frankly I believe you are a troll in disguise. That combo is unlike any out there... No phone and tablet works better. You are very stupid if you believe because everyone in the world doesnt have a BB, that makes bbm useless...Everyone in the world is not in your phones contact so I don't see why that should be the case for bbm. People who matter to you should be in your bbm. 55million subscribers still find it very useful in their everyday lives. Imessage is what's useless you troll. You simply just came here to troll, because had you done any research you would know that the playbook does not have a Skype app... The speed on the 9900 is scandalous??? Really?

9900 and playbook?

The playbook is a flop, they cant give them away....almost 2 years old now and the experience is still shit. They can't get the Os working smooth, not Rim not android. They are close but why would I want to use an inferior product.

Let's face it, the battle for 3rd place is on between Rim and MS. Best you guys can hope for is that your devices don't become antiques in 12 months like Palm Pre diehard users that held on until the bitter end.

Your "analysis" could not be more wrong and is typical of the impression you would acquire by reading iTard filled American tech blog sites. Go shovel your **** there where you will find no shortage of like minded "individuals"
From my Neutrino powered Playbook that is already awesome and only getting better one update at a time.

Mortys11 the Playbook is a flop in your dreams buddy. It is one of the fastest business oriented tablets on the planet, with a secure OS that is second to none.

QNX is on the shuttle and all IOS is in, is apple products (the demi-god of lemmings like yourself). If you enjoy IOS so much and hate RIM and MS, then get lost and go troll on a IOS board somewhere.
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Tablets are incredible

Are you on crack? The Playbook is the biggest flop ever. And I bought two of that POS. I currently have an Ipad 3 and a Google Nexus 7 and they both rock. Tried to sell the playbooks on craigslist and could not get much for them so now they are accumulating dust.

I have a Bold 9900 and a Playbook and absolutely love that combination.

I also have an iTouch and an iPad, but they're gathering dust somewhere and haven't been used since last December.

The truth is that everyone is different. You sound like the kind of guy who needs an iPhone so that you can fit in with the crowd. Fine. But don't knock the 9900 and the Playbook just cos it's not for you. Some people need more simple tools such as the iPhone, but if you REALLY want to get things done then the 9900 is a WAY better phone.

9900 and playbook good combination?

Yes , both has software that studders, lags and makes you want to pull your hair out.

my friend, I was a bb user for 7 yrs, I call a spade a spade and when iPhone 1 came out I didn't jump ship, not until the 4. Rim dropped the ball and be honest with yourself the playbook and current phones are garbage.
The hardware garbage and the software is garbage.

Bb10 might be too little too late and their track record shows they will either be late or deliver something half baked with a promise of updates to follow.

Kevin say the iPhone 5 didn't improve the experience well I disagree. The iOS experience is great and a faster sleeker, light phone does improve the experience. I applaud rim for trying this peek and swipe style and it looks pretty good but if the hardware is ugly, the camera is shit, lack of apps etc then people don't care. They want the total package.

Mortys I am in complete agreement with you. I too was a bb user for almost 8 years and also bought the playbook. I personally see no chance RIM will survive and I hope I am wrong. But the facts are that it does not look for them, regardless of what the spin meisters in this forum say.

Have you even used the PlayBook? Even on what you think is a "crippled experience and two year old hardware" the PlayBook is a better tablet device than the iPad and a very viable productivity tool and consumer device.

I'm far from a fanboy, I'm blackberry by choice.

That's odd. I have a 9900 and a PlayBook. My 9900 does all that I need it to do (browse, GPS, apps, e-mail, BBM, full office suite including pdf, and it does so at more than acceptable speed. It just beat a friend's Galaxy S II at opening a completely new webpage. It acts as a perfect conduit for my PlayBook when I'm not on WiFi. The battery, while it doesn't last 3 days like my old 8900 did, still lasts a good 24 hours. It's also removable, so I can swap it out if needed in a minute.

My PlayBook is a 64GB table, that rocks at games, also has a full office suite (I'll admit that I don't much care for Adobe and want RIM to put the Dataviz reader on it), and is easily the best bang for the buck tablet out there.

I have a 9930, had since launch, got a PB, had it for 8 months now. Yes they work very well together. BUT there is no eco system.

We have lot of other tablets and phone in the house. I even switched from my 9930 to a iphone 4s for the summer, thought that I couldnt take it any more and turned the 9930 back on last weekend. The 9930 has a keyboard which I really like. but for everything else the iphone and eco system, performance along with battery life, that darn Iphone really rocks.

IMHO, the later BB10 take to hit the market the worse off RIM will be. I along with many others want a LTE phone, we are not going to wait forever nor will many consumers buy many phones a full price.

Can not wait to check out the Iphone and the BB10.....

Talk about distortion field !

My friend, have you used an iPad?

Are you familiar with the word "smooth"?

I tried my friends playbook and I thought it was broken!

I guess u enjoy movies on a 26" blk and wht tv too...does everything I need too! Who needs a HDTV I guess.

Like Rim said.....Wake up!

Question is, have you used a Playbook? It's as smooth and silk and as fast as it gets, with multitasking second to none. BTW why are you trolling a RIM board? Bored with the non impressive iPone 5? Thought so. And a little peice of advice buddy. You are surrounded by RIM fans here and are just making yourself look like a jackass. Go troll somewhere else little boy.
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Tablets are incredible

Smooth as silk Lol !

My friend, I was a die hard bb user for 7 yrs. the time came to admit that rim dropped the ball and the overall user experience was far greater on iOS and it's Eco system. The torch and playbook were both shit and it's been down hill since. No email on their tablet for over a year...are u guys serious?

. Bb10 will not gain traction . Wait and see the mutiny that will take place from companies and gov. Agencies that will drop Rim. It's already started .

You guys keep cheering each other on...good luck

Given the current poisonous climate, I suspect it is more a case of relentless patent checking on every possible feature to prevent Apple from trying to injunct it the moment it launches.

NoBody is going to sue Rim or try to stop the playbook or bb10 from going on sale because they aren't a threat anymore, heck the stock was below $7 and no buyers....IRRELEVENT !

Rim can't give their shit away...$99 playbooks at staples...

Kevin my big fear is that a lot of existing Blackberry users who aren't enthusiast, which is probably the majority, have no idea the BB10 is coming. The iPhone alone launching before may not effect BB10, but iPhone, GS3, Lumia 920, etc., etc. coming out before BB10, and most people being oblivious to BB10 even coming may cause RIM to lose a lot of business that they may not be able to win back until 2 or 3 year contracts expire. However I don't think RIM can announce BB10 well before it is available and maintain the hype so it is really just a bad situation.

All that said Apple didn't do a lot to bring in people who are not already entrenched in the ecosystem, and that alone is something positive for RIM.

+1

completely agree. Ive already seen about 5 tweets/fb statuses today about people dumping their BB for the new iPhone.

Previewing BB10 wouldn't have done a thing to stop those users. Not when it's arriving next year.

Were it coming in November, maybe, but anyone who's ditching Blackberry now has likely been considering it for a long time.

Its clear if you read between the lines that the actual bb10 hardware kev has signed the NDA for is superior. I too agree with the article without even seeing the final hardware. The iphone isn't untouchable anymore.

it means that because RIM is playing the waiting game, many BB users out of contract will not wait around for an unknown BB10 product until 2013, and upgrade to an IPhone 5.

I mean the proof is in the sold out pre-orders and the many tweets of current BB owners dumping their Blackberry for the new iPhone 5. Just do a quick search of "Blackberry iPhone" on twitter.

I love my 9930, and I am satisfied with it, but sometimes you just have to be realistic. I know RIM held off to make sure everything was complete, but this has totally worked against them. The only talk I hear about the upcoming BB10 devices are from tech and Blackberry enthusiasts. No one else.

That video sucked. And when Cook was saying Jobs built the company, all I could think about was Obama saying "You didn't build that! You didn't build that! !".

Video was too long and annoying .. . . when it was finally over, I didn't want to waste any mor . ..bla whatev

I said it yesterday... people at RIM can breathe a huge sigh of relief. I feel like they should have called it iOS5S, not iOS 6. I'll probably get a new iPod touch since I like gadgets and I already have all RIM's high end stuff currently offered.

As someone who has used every BlackBerry OS since the Pearl 8100, I think I have a pretty good idea of what an old OS really is. What's funny about the iPhone 5 is that aside from iOS 6 not being anything new, not even the hardware got monumental upgrades. People are gonna get an extra row of app icons, and a slightly better screen to accomodate the larger size of the phone. The camera? I was expecting 12megapixels. I was expecting that when in landscape mode, the iPhone would finally display the homescreen in landscape mode (like my 9810 does...). I was expecting NFC with some kind of mobile payment system that Apple would cram down merchants' throats, and force competitors to rise up and compete against.

All in all, I was most impressed by the headphones Apple will be offering, as well as how they've brought the iPod touch up to being nicer than most other smartphones (still no vibrate feature though?).

I'll be listening to my 5th generation iPod touch while I'm at outside T-Mobile early, waiting for a BB10 phone on launch day. Or at the Verizon store, if T-Mobile doesn't carry it. Then I'll probably take a picture of my new BlackBerry with that 5mp "Crystal lens" on my iPod touch, and upload it to Instagram :)

The playing field is beginning to "level off"? How is the koolaid? iphone 5 will probably have 100 million units sold before RIM announces another delay in BB10.

No one said the iPhone sales were leveling off, or even that they will. They aren't and they won't.

But if you think the iPhone's innovation momentum hasn't slowed since the iPhone 4 or maybe the 4S with Siri, then your Kool-Aid was made with other powder far more powerful than Kool-Aid mix.

High sales does not automatically mean how good the product is. Apple has an amazing ability to make people believe they need something.

It is an ability honed by very expensive psychologists, copywriters and PR schmoozers. This is where the other phone makers have failed: they have thought it was about technology, not about high pressure salesmanship.

Basically, the difference in approach is between:

"This phone has the latest most advanced technology. It runs at xyz megahertz, it has a q megapixel camera, and we think it is awesome."

"This phone is jazzier than the last one. Owning it will make women want to have sex with you, and what's more, it will make your wang bigger."

It's the difference, in fact, between selling a Honda and a Porsche. Except that the iPhone is actually a Ford and the competition is everything else.

I read a headline the other day quoted in Facebook about a recent game of baseball. It read: "Rogrigues goes deep, Wang hurt." Sigh.

Well, didn't work for me though. I'm still resisting and the more they try to shove their crap down my throat, the more they just simply pies me off with it.

This is more hype. RIM is also somewhat guilty of this "spinning". While it's true that the number of Blackberry owners worldwide is rising, the fact it there market share is falling dramatically.

A similar thing is true for iPhone. Yes it's sales are rising, but it is actually getting a smaller and smaller share of the worldwide smartphone market.

The big newss of the iPhone 5 dog and pony show was how quickly they are going to roll out and in how many markets.
-the real story however is that this is a defensive manuver designed to slow their decline in percentage of the overall market.

The smartphone market is quickly looking like the PC market where Windows dominates. In smartphones it is Android. The interesting big fight in smartphones is actually WP vs Android, not iOS as the latter doesn't stand a chance in hell of ever breaking 20% let alone reversing the slide it is currently on.

RIM is being way to slow to get to market - Apple has already delivered two versions of the iPhone since Bold 9900 and when BB10 finally hits the streets. That's pretty sad!

Yes, but to the average person who doesn't bother to read smartphone forums this is irrelevant. A new BB10 device with a kb will come across to them as just another blackberry.

I think aside from bb die hards and business schools watching it as a case study, BB10 won't change a thing.

As much as I love my Blackberry, I have to agree that RIM have done a shockingly bad job of getting BB10 out of the door.

Yes, it IS a whole new OS, but they've had years to work on this and get it right. The iPhone came out five or six years ago and RIM should have been stepping up to the plate then and NOT in 2013.

Had they brought out a brand new OS in 2010, then they would have still been in with a shot, but I can't help but feel it is too little too late. Even if it is the best OS on the market, they will still be fighting a battle as Apple has won the eco-system war hands down.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I am totally wrong, and that RIM will hit a home run, but they don't have a track record of hitting home runs over the last few years.

Any company who thinks it is right to charge £10 for a $9.99 application (which is what App World does) is doing something fundamentally wrong - they just don't get it. And alas, I'm worried that this inability to truly get it, will carry on over to the launch of BB10.

All us loyal Blackberry users are praying they'll get it right, but how many of us would be willing to put money on it.

I've seen my shares in RIM go down to less than 20% of what I bought them for, and yet I hang on in there with rose tinted specs in the hope they'll come good. Fingers crossed!

I don't think the iPhone 5 annoucement means much. I guess the good news is the media can't really say what a dramatically new phone the iPhone 5 is. This gives RIM a chance. But RIM will stand or fall on the OS plus ecosystem. I'm optimistic about the former but have serious doubts about the latter.

It's funny, and ironic - the iPhone 5 looked to me as though Apple acknowledged that the Android hardware model was the pinicle which they had to reach, and as a result we have almost homogenous slab market, where the iPhone and Androids are, at a glance, almost identical.

Apple pulls the same "sold out after launch" crap every time and the media falls for it hook, line and sinker. More free publicity to build momo. Pretty clever but you would think after the 4th or 5th time the media mavens would wise up. It's a nice phone - nothing great - catches them up to Andoid in some respects. Meanwhile 9900 etc gather dust on retailers shelves while RIMM sits on it's price point for old phones. Great biz strategy, by all means let's keep those older models overpriced to make sure folks don't buy any. Geesh.

Something makes some people always want that iPhone like drugs, it borders on bizarre sometimes, I mean looking at that First Look: IPhone 5 video from yesterday, its like people have been hypnotised or something! I think its a great phone, but right from the first one (which I bought due to the hype and never went back) I just don't dig that OS, but still that iPhone will sell sell sell! The S3 is an amazing phone on the other hand. If I wasn't a stickler for productivity and by some very strange reason I dropped my BlackBerry…….…naaa forget it that ain't happening!:)

If the iphone had a physical keyboard and able to perform multifunctions they would take over BB users in a heartbeat, but until then RIM still hangs on to us productivity users - the business community. I can't imagine having to do business on a daily basis with an iPhone - it would take me twice as long.

You're kidding, right? I went from a string of Treos to WinMo with keyboards to BB and then to Android non-kb for a couple of years now. If anything, I'm more productive than ever and live and breath work travel on my phone. I could easily do what I do on an iPhone, but I like the customization of Android. Going back to a kb would be very difficult in giving up the screen real estate that allows you to consume more content - email, document text, images, web pages, etc. I've seen countless business colleagues switch from BB to iPhone and they don't seem to be less productive. I think you're way off base saying business work would take you twice as long. The market adoption proves it. Any modern full screen smartphone OS is fully capable of business use today.

I alternate my gophone sim between my 3gs (the last iphone that will take a gophone sim) and BB 9700 depending on need and situation. I see nothing from Iphone or BB since then to make me go back into contract hell. Especially with contract prices up and bandwith down for the two carriers worth having where I live (At&t - Verizon). I hope BB10 gives me a reason to go back into a harness but being out of contract starts to feel really good as the monthly savings mount up. For my wife and I about 1200 bucks a year in our pockets instead of At&t. Even in a rural area I find enough wifi at home and around the county to get everything I need to done via that. 4G ? who cares ! Heck I rarely even get 3G where I live.

Kevin wrote:

"The people who want to buy Apple products will still buy Apple products.  Those who prefer the BlackBerry user experience are still going to buy BB10"

And Android people will still buy Android! So where is BB going to draw new customers from? Feature phone users? And when/how do they market to this group?
Why don't you write blogs about this instead of writing about iPhone users who you admit are not BB's market? Oh yeah, I forgot, your top priority is generating traffic for Crackberry, that's too bad!

I can see how you spend your days. Follow crackberry and Kevin on twitter, wait for an article then troll. You are pathetic. Think about it like this... Crackberry is a Site for BlackBerry owners, yet it manages to lure all you Android and iphone trolls with every article that's s posted. RIM is a company that makes blackberry, it won't be very difficult for them to get in the minds of DROID and isheep.. The world is watching RIM..You people really want RIM to fail, it's beside me why, but when BB10 launches ull be very curious.. You'll see the reviews and you eat ur words and throw away ur iphone.

Camfella even when an article is solely about blackberry you always come with the same old negative comments. Stick to imore and swoon over how perfect iphone, ipad,ipod and ios are.

I check imore when I see an interesting article, but to register just to troll... Smh. I say again, you are just pathetic.

RIM isn't going to win the American market back overnight. The launch will be a humble one, with a steady number of units sold, but nothing staggering, and quite possibly disappointing in the eyes of many.

What needs to be done is RIM needs to ensure a major commitment is present from the carrier representatives at brick and mortar stores. Sometimes I walk into Telus stores and ask to see a Blackberry 9900 just to see if they deter me to another option; more often than not, that is exactly what happens... If they aren't recommending these phones to anyone, then there's no hope left.

They will also have to rely on word of mouth (I will certainly do my part!).

"RIM isn't going to win the American market back overnight. The launch will be a humble one, with a steady number of units sold, but nothing staggering, and quite possibly disappointing in the eyes of many..."

I'm not quite as pessimistic, but I think this was at least a factor in deciding to push the launch back to Q1 next year. If they could have launched before iPhone 5, great, but otherwise launching within 60 days would see them steamrollered.

Hello !

They don't recommend them because they can't compete with current competition.

Guys the phones are out of date at release, the 9900 should have been release in 2008.

Marketing 101 "We are all sold out". Apple is the master at it. Blackberry needs to do lots of things to stay viable. Unfortunately I have heard ............from RIM here in the US. Not one single commercial , advertisement, text, or a single character sent to me to tell me RIM is still in business. I'm a BB fan but still don't understand what the marketing dept is doing. I would love to see something from Waterloo that tells me RIM is still there. I'm still on my Sprint 9670 Style and am waiting for the new keyboard model to purchase. Don't want a contract anymore so I will be buying models straight out from Sprint. Waiting is just driving me crazy. Apple and Android seem to be so popular but are not Blackberry.
Blackberry is tied to my home and am a proud owner of several. I don't want to be an App.......just can't say it......Blackberry is for me.......

You have the Style!? You sir are a dying breed. I applaud your dedication. Personally, I probably would have caved at the GS3 to wait for the second gen bb10 phones. I'm still sitting on my Bold 9650 from Sprint though. The wait is almost over!

I have a Style too. It's been a year and a half now. I got it after trying out an Android. The only thing I liked about Android were the widgets. And even after a week or two, it wasn't the same.
I'm one of the lucky ones who's contract is up around BB10 launch. I wanted to jump on board BB7, but BB10 is the next evolution.

Frankly, this article is full of wishful thinking.

other OEMs are selling Android handsets and iPhones will sell tens of millions...and all you hope for is for RIM to sell to what remains of the 'Blackberry people'. Who knows how many of those people will be eroded by the time the BB10 handsets roll around.

The multitasking on the iPhone is good enough to give the iPhone the highest satisfaction rating of any phone. Consumers have no issue double tapping the home button to launch apps from where they stopped. That's good enough multitasking for most people :)

The iPhone has always had the ability to drown out all other phones as far as sales are concerned. BB10 will be no exception

Yawn...... You're still here. You DO realize that what you say here has NO effect on The price of your Apple shares or your RIM short position.

Of course the iPhone is good enough for feeble minded people to go and shell out another $400 bucks on a mediocre device. You and I both know that the 4s and the last iPad were nothing special and looks like the same can be said of iPhone5. The Apple is starting to rot and I believe you will see it reflected in sales. This is a massive opening for BlackBerry 10 but you can't see that because you are a troll. Go take your nonsense to iMore. It's not wanted here.

IPhone 5 nothing special?

Take a look at all rim phones, look like soviet era design compared to apple.

I can't wait to hear the excuses on bb10 release and updates are coming bs that will fix it....dreamers.

You best hope that bb10 is flawless and super polished or else they are DOA...even if it is perfect the battle is uphill.

It is ez to fool yourself....

The question I have is what is RIM doing to keep themselves relevant in the time we have from now until the Blackberry 10 launch. In people's minds RIM is dead in the water and besides the Blackberry faithful most consumers associate Blackberry with a boring product line that is behind the times in almost every way that is strictly for the "Corporate User."

It seems like they have pretty much given up on the Playbook before they ever even started with it. They don't advertise for it and people aren't buying it because most people don't know what it can do or what its about.

I just think that RIM has to do waaaay more than just say "Hey everybody, we have a new operating system!!" People will yawn and say "thanks but no thanks, we are good with iOS and Android." I think that RIM should be doing marketing NOW for BB10 and at least giving people something to salivate over. Just my opinion, flame me if you like, I enjoy the heat.

I agree with you RIM has so much to do its not even funny. Frank needs to have a group of psychologist, illusionist and Mesmers in his team to roll out a PR campaign that's never been seen in the US to break apples mind control.They need to change the perception door by door, community by community, city by city and state by state. I say it everytime. RIMs fate is in Frank Boulben's and every Developers hand. Because in truth there is nothing that Ios and android have on bb10 other than app count. And we know how less stressing it is to code for bb10 than it is to for the older phones... If only every Developers out there was aware of this.That's the ads that should be on Tv right now... Calling all developers to QNX.

What they need to break apple's mind control is to use the "1984 apple macintosh commercial" against them! Customize it for BB10 and put it on every channel and web page out there, even on the apps iphone users hold so dearly.

I actually have to wonder how well this iphone is selling. Who is saying the preorders are sold out? My husband works at a Best Buy Mobile store and they have sold a grand total of 3.

Most people don't walk in to the brick and morder stores to preorder. They do it online and Apple, Verizon, and AT&T have all sold out.

As my 14 year old son said the other day, Samsung is hot and Apple is not. That's what all the kids at school want.

Indeed. 14 year old boys are wired to be very competitive and compare statistics endlessly. And they have the time to do it. They probably spot technology trends before their parents.

Your kid is right. Samsung is hot. Everytime i see a piece of Tech news on this great tech app I have called APPY GEEK on my playbook, people are always reacting positivly to Samsung and hating on Apple. Apple is for Lemmings anyway, but I think they doubly screwed themselves when they tried to have their so called 'lawsuit' against Samsung. The end of Apples rein is beginning :-)
______________________
Tablets are incredible

Personally, these are the phones I'm waiting for: Galaxy Note 2, Galaxy Nexus II, Lumia 920 and the BB10. Of these the Note 2 is my most likely purchase. The iPhone5 is interesting but not for me. I do want RIM to blow everyone away with BB10 - I can wait for for it but in the meantime I've set aside my 9810 for a Nexus with CM10 Nightly.

Apple - keeps selling assloads because
A) their hardware is elegant and not cheap feeling/looking
B) yes you can say they are actually behind as far as features go but what they do is take what's there now and make it clean, simple and consistent.
C) Excellent marketing
D) keep time lines, announce, 2 days later pre-order, 1 week later massive roll out
E) of course apps. Whether we accept it or not it's a key component in their formula

I own 2 playbooks a 9930 and a 9850, I preordered an iphone and am looking forward to the experience.

To knock a company that has sold millions of devices consistently for the past few years is ignorant on anyone's part, they must be doing something right or most people are just dumb and blind I guess.

I will definitely buy a BB10 device when they become available to see what they have to offer. It might be enough to make me come back but to win back the average consumer they will have to really really knock this out of the park. If the quality apps are not there RIM unfortunately will dwindle away in due time.

My BBM members screen grows shorter everyday and at the moment has 4 statuses at "pre-ordered iphone 5"

We have a long road ahead of us.

I appreciate Kevins usually unbiased views but keep in mind even though he's seen BB10 in its close to final tailoring he does (correct me if I'm wrong) run this site so it's in his best interest for RIM to succeed.

"RIM just needs to deliver a solid product and market its strong message that BlackBerry people get stuff done."

This is a nice way of saying that Blackberry is a *work* phone, one that nobody wants to mess with after 5pm. You can't build widespread consumer enthusiasm for a workplace productivity tool. As much as IT departments love locking down their employee's Blackberries (I've never been allowed to use BBM for example) they want iPhones for themselves. So nowadays, both Blackberry and iPhone are supported by the enterprise. Someday they'll want to standardize on just one platform, and what do you think the chances are they they'll pull the iPhones away from all the executives and senior management?

I've always been a Blackberry user too, and would love to see BB10 shake up the marketplace. But I see which way the wind is blowing, and it's not towards Waterloo.

Is it just me or is the iPhone turning into the butt end of jokes.. kinda like how things turned for BlackBerry. Its like a role reversal.

If you really believe RIM will finally launch BB10.

Its just as likely that Apple will launch 3 new iPhones is it is that BB will launch BB10 in 4 months.

Don't hold your breath.

identify the iSheep by the comments. You'll know who they are by their response to the statement "iPhone 5 is not much more than an incremental improvement over iPhone 4S" being " it will sell millions more than BB10, already sold out blah blah" like it is actually relevant to the subject of how iOS competes with BB10 on a technical level: feelings hurt, lash out.... same story over and over. We get it. You like iPhone. yay!....

Being an iPhone hater, and sticking your head in the sand is why RIM is spiraling into obscurity.

Love the "iSheep" comment. Did you think of that yourself?

No the iPhone 5 isn't a 'revolution' and built from the ground up.

But its important to remember that its because of the massive impact the original and subsequent (revolutionary) iPhones have had that Blackberry has had to start from the ground up like they are doing now.

I have a 9900 and an iPhone. I love both, but end up using them for different purposes. iPhone for multimedia/web/apps. And my Blackberry for calls and unparalleled e-mail functionality.

I have a Playbook and an iPad. I love both. Again I use them for different purposes. iPad at home for personal stuff and my playbook on the move for business use. But the Playbook lacks apps, but clearly has the potential to be different. The apps it does have are expensive for their actual functionality and in comparison to other platforms.

BB10 looks awesome, but people are starting to forget about Blackberry as a viable smart phone choice. I see it everyday (I work for a multinational mobile phone company).

Many consumers are tired of constant repairs/replacements of their current Blackberrys, during the two past quarters around 73% of all handset repairs processed where for Blackberry's of various models. I'm sure BB10 will be different, but confidence is being lost and quickly. Sales are slowing, but not in the way that iPhone users halt upgrading in anticipation for a new iPhone, but because people are jumping ship.

Individuals like ourselves who can fix common issues, or visit websites like these can easily overcome or even prevent some of the challenges we may face when using a BB, regular software upgrades etc. But many everyday consumers don't feel the same, or don't want to have to deal with issues like these.

Blackberry need to start drumming up hype about the new BB10 line and quick, it needs to tap into its existing customer base by showing them why they should wait and offer them compelling reason to do so.

App's are also important. But if its so easy for a developer to port an app to the App World from Android, why are so little doing so, even when there are success stories and support from Blackberry?

Confidence is being lost, and so is market share.

Just read through that and its a bit of a rant, but I love my BB. And I want to love there future products, but I hear feedback from so many people on a weekly basis that has me worried for its future, outside of its fan base.

Tell me why Samsung and HP werent interested in BB10 Licensing ?? I suspect Hp want WebOS come back? and Samsung wait for tizen OS 2013?

Pretty slick video,....except for one significant thing,....when the vid maker had Tim Cook kicked Christ to the curve! God remembers such things like this. Be warned....

For those that think the iPhone 5 isn't a serious blow to RIM,...and HTC,...and anyone esle, you're nuts! Just look at the pricing: 16gb iph 5 $199,..32gb iph 5 $299 and 64gb iph5 @ $399. The fact is, Apple will sell every last iPhone 5 at regular price,...and higher for those that go without a 2 year contract. In addition, there are millions of folks grabbing the iPhone 4s for $99 on contract. These are folks that decided to take advantage of Apple's kindness right away. I don't know about you but I for one would have been happy if RIM had released a 9810,...with faster processor,...larger screen,..more RAM and LTE radio. I also would have paid full 2-yr contract pric for said BB. I believe RIM is missing out on an incredible number of sells and I'm willing to bet not one person that gets an iPhone 4s,..or 5 will be willing to take it back for a BB,...not matter whatthe new BB can do. I say this because they will be mentally locked in to iOS by then and there will be no turning back. In additon, Apple is releasing iOS 6 to current iPhone 4 and 4s owners. Also, many current BB owners are to RIM,...like many fathers were to Oldsmobile and we all know what happened to Oldsmobile. The fact is,...RIM needs to keep new buyers in the pipeline,...more young folks. If they don't RIM will fail! That's just the facts. Young folks not only want an iPhone,..they want an iPad,..and iPod,...iTunes,...and pretty soon may have iTV,..showing iPrograms,...and iCommercial causing young buyers to spend lots and lots of iDollars. This is Apple's ultimate goal,...to be come iEverything to iEveryone!

Now, having said that, my next phone will be LTE,..it will be better than my current 9810 by miles. The question is,...what brand will it be?

Edit! RIM, here's an idea. You too can do pre-order sells. Just give us the details on the minimum hardware specs of the forthcoming BB10 devices and offer us loyal BB owners (I mean, we gotta still be loyal if we hadn't jumped ship yet) an upfront discount for placing a pre-release-order now. What this means is some will be willing to actually pay for their next BB10 device sight unseen right now. Our decision would be based on nothing but the "minimum specs" that the devices will have and if you live up to your end of the bargain,...you'll have a higher number of sells come launch day. So, go ahead and sleep on it over the weekend and get back with us on Monday! I'm thinking,...this would be freak'n unheard of fab-bu-lous!

JMD

You do realise the real price of the iPhone is over $800: you pay up front and then you pay on contract, like leasing a car.I've often wondered what would happen to the US market if the carriers were forced to disclose this in their plans, and offer bandwidth-only rates to people who owned their phones already. As Scott Adams (Dilbert cartoonist, but also an economist by training) observes in one of his books, the phone market is a "confusopoly", intended to scrape the end user by confusing contracts with many hidden costs.

I think you may have a point there. It might have been a good idea for RIM to released a new slider type device inbetween the wait for BB10. I very much love my BB, but the hardware is not powerful enough for the OS. Too many hourglass type spins (even on the bold). A refined OS 8 and up to date hardware (dual core arm, etc), along with a promise up being able to update to BB10 would have kept many BB users in the fold I believe.

Kev,...it would be nice for CB.Com and RIM,..if CB.Com would dedicate the entire Homepage screen to all BB10 content and graphics! I mean every thing from margin to margin would be focused on BB10 OS and devices!! That would be freak'n awesome!!!

From what I can see just from pictures the iPhone 5 looks like a work of art. Check out the video to see the new machines that were developed to make this thing. There was no need to reinvent the wheel. Why would they? The iPhone 4/S was already the best selling smartphone. What they did was make the iPhone even better. Can't wait to see it in person.

If the BB10 phone doesn't at least match the iPhone 5 I will seriously think of getting one.

Btw, at least the iPhone 5 is real. Can't really say that about the BB10 phone until they show it to the public and stop this crazy top secret showing to select media and companies.

Note that the iPhone 5 is an actual shipping phone. Tens of millions will be sold before a BB10 phone sees the light of day.

By the time BB10 ships in 2013 (if it really does) many people will be looking forward to the next iPhone - 5s or 6 whatever the name may be. And, many of the details of the next iPhone and iOS7 will be leaked out.

So the true competition for BB10 will be the 2013 iPhone, or at least its anticipation.

I know no one here will understand this.. but the iPhone 5 is actually a failure to Apple. The growth of every new iPhone is dropping by a whopping 50% and iPhone 5 needs to sell approx. 200 million units to even match that.. Point is, this is what exactly happened to RIM, just at a lower scale.

Question is not about the success of iPhone 5 but do you trust them now with iPhone 5S?

Kudos to RIM. Make a product, BlackBerry, and sell it for 10 years. Do not worry about profits, do not worry about market share. Worry about enriching lives. That is called ideology which the RIM competitors and their user base fail to understand. In the beginning it's all glory for every new comer.. Gamblers might know this as beginners luck.. But respect is earned over years and BlackBerry has 10+ years of them. If you want to get out of the iSheep tag, let the iProduct do the talking.

BlackBerry 10 is not your average run-of-the-mill smartphone. It's the collective thinking of a truly Global company with the support of 600 carriers across 150 countries and the widest spread user base across all demographics (corporate, government, administrative & consumer).

You guys need to start giving respect and credit to RIM for all that they have done over the years. They are failing because 'you' are failing at understanding. Kids will be kids but it's sad to see their opinions spewed on every thread in CrackBerry.

iPhone has only affected your thoughts, nothing else. And please, for the people who talk about the iPhone being a success because they offer a complete package, your definition of complete is embarrassing.

BlackBerry PlayBook 32GB & Torch 9810

http://www.twitter.com/varunsain

I see where you're coming from, if apple really cared about its customers they would offer their converter adapter at an extremely low price for existing iPhone users or free with every purchase considering they already overcharge for their basic phones. What I'm getting at is that Apple really showed its greed by announcing their new 9pin "lighting" charger.. revolutionary [insert synonyms] or not but charging 30$ for it just shows what a greedy company it really is. in broad daylight as well. pity

I like this commment. I would correct "BlackBerry 10 is not your average run-of-the-mill smartphone. It's the collective thinking of a truly Global company with the support of 600 carriers across 150 countries and the widest spread user base across all demographics (corporate, government, administrative & consumer)." By just using BlackBerry instaed of limiting to BlackBerry 10

From a technical perspective (and yes indeed I used to be an industrial engineer for electronic products) the new iPhone is designed to be capable of being sold at low cost once the up front costs have been amortised. Apple seem to have decided that the technology has peaked and have come up with a device which is below the spec of the top-end competition but is designed to be prettier (and its design language is inoffensive in world markets). Apple expect prices to fall - and they expect to profit as the margins on top end phones from other makers come under pressure.
This is why the specs are relatively low; they are "good enough" for 90% of ordinary users. In a post above I suggested that Apple is really the Ford of phone manufacturing (because Ford used to be reliant on having a restricted product line design language and vast volumes of each product). Ford was extremely successful with this approach for a long time: after the initial, revolutionary Model T, they rapidly standardised on the same technology as everybody else, but by then had huge volumes.

I don't see how you can respect a company that has lied (misled) it's customers and failed to deliver time and time again the last couple of years. Yes Apple created a new connecter for the iPhone 5. So what? You still get a charger with the product. The only ones complaining at those who would like to use previous charges with it (such as car charges). When BB when from USB to Micro USB, I didn't complain. I just bought a new car charger. You can say Apple doesn't care, but at least they provide 2 years supports (via OS upgrades). RIM didn't provide upgrades from OS 5 to OS 6 and there will be no upgrade from OS 7 to BB10.

I think RIM must start marketing now for BB10. Show the device, the minimum specs... I live is South africa and remember months before samsung galaxy launched, there were great posters around big cities advertising on it already, so people knew about it before seeing or touching it. RIM must do the same, make publicity on TVs, on the internet via popular website, send sms, give some brochures around restaurant, airport etc. and one more thing why not send some msgs to all bbm subscriber telling them of the upcoming of BB10. I'm Not good in marketing but just feel that the RIM marketing dept is so disappointing. If u want to win a battle start to train now. Don't wait 4 december.

Couldn't agree more. hopefully at least in October they begin advertising. They need publicity badly so when it finally comes out people arent clueless. They need the media to be making news segments about it. wowing people. Vick you should join their marketing team, probably do them a lot more good haha.

I think Apple is playing to its strengths. They didn't have to come out with something spectacular, they just had to do the bare minimim, and they did. We might look at the iPhone 5 and not be shocked by how great it is, but then again we do not represent the majority of the market that these companies are going for. Now granted, the iPhone 5 is a great phone, not necessarily the best phone out there, but certainly a strong option. RIM needs to come out with BB10 and new hardware as soon as possible in 2013 and have it be excellent. Then they can star the road back to a strong position one step at a time. Hopefully BB10 will be the first of many steps in that direction.

While I'm anxious for BB10, I couldn't wait any longer. My BlackBerry died a few weeks ago so I made the switch to iPhone and pre-ordered the iPhone 5 yesterday. I wish BB the best and hope their new platform is successful. I might come back...in 2 years.

"In a nutshell, what Apple unveiled with the iPhone 5 is a better iPhone. They are not really making the existing mobile experience that much better. It's not a game changer for the company. "

The same can be said of the last iterations of both BlackBerry smartphones and BlackBerry OS. BBOS 7 was hardly a game changer for RIM unless slipping into near irrelevance is a game changer in a positive way. BlackBerry OS 4, BlackBerry OS 5, BlackBerry OS 6, and BlackBerry OS 7 are incremental updates if viewed in the most favourable light to RIM. The smartphones have been the same tired designs for over 5 years. We seem to be betting the farm on BlackBerry 10 (smartphones and OS) to revive the BlackBerry brand as well as Research In Motion. Those who throw stones best not live in a glass house.

Some have commented about people wanting to stay with the BB experience. It looks to me that the new BB experience will not share much in common with the current one. There will be little familiarity for the current user. When my contract is up I'll look at BB10, but I'll also consider WP. I won't go to iOS as I don't like the GUI. But how do I know I'll like the BB10 GUI? I don't, so I may as well keep all my options open.

I have a Blackberry torch and Playbook. I generally like those products. The last two years I have been tempted to migrate over to the iphone as so many others have, especially given that I have many apple products including, an imac, and ipod. I have resisted even though all of my kids, wife, and many of my friends and work colleagues, including my company, have done so. If fact, whenever I pull out my Blackberry, quite often people tell me "why are you still using that thing?". They tell me how they send emails, surf the web, listen to music, use apps, and beam music and movies throughout the house wirelessly through airplay. A seamless, smooth experience. Apple products just work. There are many apps that they all use that I can not use and would like to, such as my cable provider app, my local paper app, HBO Go etc. The list goes on. So when people ask me why do you still use your Blackberry, I say "because Blackberry people get things done.". Many times the response I get from lawyers, doctors, accountants, stock brokers etc is: "I am an apple person and I get things done just fine.". I do not really know how to respond. I am holding out for BB10, but am not confidant that the blackberry ecosystem will come close to the apple ecosystem anytime soon.

Exactly! I just SMH every time I hear/see someone say BB get's things done or it's not a toy. That's just weak! iOS and Android are not toys and people get plenty done with them. We just have nothing to combat them with when they ask why we still use a BB.

there is one truth no one can debate or counter where i live. it's the exclusive data plan with all and every mobile operator here with reasonable monthly price powered by reliable real time notification of everything (fb,twitter,emails etc). with turtle slow connection here, blackberry is still the best. that's why i bought my blackberry. that's why blackberry sales is still going up on countries with slow connection. correct me if i'm wrong, but i think RIM makes more money from sales outside subsidized phones countries because people have to buy it in full price.

of course, RIM have to provide new breakthrough features if they want people in US, Europe and fast connection countries to buy blackberry. i hope those new breakthrough features are what they hold until the release time to surprise us all and make more people want to buy it and regret what they already bought.

RIM made a Iphone clone, we have not seen the signature BB10 keyboard phone...but a Iphone/Samsung/HTC like device...to fit in? actually sell phones?

Don't bash the creators and then make a phone like they have ...its not like RIM ever had a phone that looked this much like an Iphone..but when the stock is down and no one is buying they make a Iphone lookalike....smh RIP RIM.

The iphone5 is already consider by many as old and outdated(no NFC) . These are facts ifans can not handle. My SG3 is already well ahead of the old and outdated iphone5. What more can one say? iphone5 is a flop.

still not impressed by the Iphone, not even with the Cinco.
I think with my Bold 9900 I can wait till BB10 arrives, sorry mac.
another Crackberry.com addict.

It means that I'm losing a few more BBM friends. What concerns me more isn't whether the BB10 phones are a better product. Its whether the people will buy it. We're on this site and we're pretty much pro-BlackBerry about a lot of products. But how many of the people we associate with are actually that diehard about Blackberry or are talking about the new BB 10 phones? The people that I know that are jumping to iOS, Android, and possibly the new Windows phones were annoyed and frustrated with the device having to do countless battery pulls, using quick pull, lack of apps, etc. They wanted something different in a smartphone experience. Those are the people I fear that RIM won't get back. The original Iphone people are probably stuck in that ecosystem so they're almost impossible to get. The 3g, 3gs and initial 4 owners are the ones that are probably buying the 5 now so they're getting close to being fully stuck in the iOS system. The L series has to be superior (not better, but superior) to the Iphone 5 and out at the beginning of Q1. It has to start chipping away at the Android market and make initial in roads with the first group of former BB owners that left for other platforms but are looking for a reason to come back. To me, that will be the true sign of what the iPhone 5 means to BlackBerry. If RIM can persuade those individuals to leave for another platform, then the future is bright. If not, we will end up being like the group of owners who last owned the nextel phones with the push to talk function.
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The difficult, we do immediately. The impossible takes a little while longer.

You hit it on the nail. Outside of the diehard BB users, how does RIM get people interested and willing to try BB10? I've been with BB for a number of years, and even I'm not really willing to wait 4-6 months for BB10. That's an eternity!

And I see this happen all the time. People ask why I have a 9930 and not the Iphone 4/4s. I tell them I have a good experience with the phone. Then someone breaks out his 9700 and is like, wait, I have to do another battery pull. That's pretty embarrassing. What is even more embarrassing is the fact that we haven't seen a quality phone in over a year. The 9900/9930 was good for catching up but still is behind in the way of the "wow" factor. I have no other options but wait until the first BB10 phone because I'm on contract. Just because I'm going to do that though doesn't mean what few BBM friends I have will follow. They're now just Iphone/Android users.

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The difficult, we do immediately. The impossible takes a little while longer.

Video was great! Sorry if this was stated above already but if RIM wants BB10 to be a success they need to get the phones into as many hands as possible as quick as possible that means great incentives for current BB users to upgrade no matter where they are in their contract they need these advocates showing off the phone and what it can do against their friends phones. I'm so sick of people comparing a new device to older BB's and saying see how slow your phone is. RIM also needs to make sure everything is lined up prior to launch meaning whatever partnerships they have in the works are ready to role when the device launches no gaps!

I just think that BlackBerry users are in a state of denial. I am a BlackBerry user (Bold 9900) but I cannot understand how would someone judge an iPhone or iOS if they are using a crappy BlackBerry. I use it because it has BBM, other than that it is a true mess and outdated OS. The design is horrible, there is no consistency, there are no good apps... Basically you cannot do anything.
There is no way that BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry 10 phones will be better in terms of quality and innovation than Apple.

very well put. And since I don't know anyone with a berry anymore... I'm switching to an iPhone. BBM is all blackberry has which I hear is insanely popular in other countries, but the US runs on apple

We fans can talk about features and specs all we want... Market perception is that iPhone is the best, most people don't know why, it just is because everyone says it is. Most people, the vast majority, do not know how to use many built in features or apps, and do not download a huge number of apps either. What I cannot figure out is why BB has fallen behind in its development so much, why is it taking so long to get BB10 to market? Iphone 4S, and now 5 have come out and BB is still taking 4 more months. I heard an intelligent businessman on TV last night say he has a BB, but RIM is done and they'll be gone before too much longer. He keeps his BB for email, but an iPhone has all the apps he could ever need. I now have an iPhone 4S, my employer assigned it to me. I immediately put my BB on a personal plan and kept it. No one can say that what iPhone does better, but everyone parrots that it is. Since using the iPhone for a month now, I leave it after work and take my BB, I don't like the iPhone. But I'm one person, and I could not convince my work to keep the BB, they had to jump on the bandwagon with public perception. They were unwilling to put BES on our server. Picked up iPhones, set up the email, and off we went. I tried for 3 months to convince otherwise, but then it became a case of, what are we doing? Where's BB? Iphone is forging ahead, BB is saying wait for us, we're coming next year. The public, and business, have no reason to wait.
I'm still hanging on personally for BB10, to try the new, and to hopefully recover my loss on the stock price. Still waiting, still hoping. But I've had to stop talking about it, as people think I'm foolish.

Paul G
via Playbook

I am concerned as many have expressed about the silence coming from RIM. I have a Playbook and a Torch 9800. Since I got the PB I use it for almost everything except making phone calls. That allows me to continue to wait for the BB 10. But my confidence in RIM has decreased greatly since I acquired the PB paying full price. There has been so many implied or actual promises since the launch of the PB. So at this time I think it is wise of RIM not to be doing any type of launch until they are able to back it up in action. What alarms me is that as a faithful follower of Crackberry that 16-18 months later the PB is still not featuring what had been promised. They have a beta 2.1 OS and they pulled their latest update quickly after releasing it. There has been silence since concerning PB updates. So how can i really have faith that they will actually present a finished product?

They are caught in a tough position. Each day they remain silent they loose more and more loyal BB users. If they speak out and can not back it up with action they loose more BB users. I have faith in RIM and I entered the stock market by purchasing stock. I have made purchases in small quantities (all I could afford) on several occasions hoping that like Apple did yrs ago that RIM will rise out of the ashes of defeat. They can not remain total silent till January. Former BB user friends of mine believe RIM is dead and there is no active phones being sold by them.

Even if we assume that BB10 has slight edge...since its on a diff OS from its predecessors RIM should realize that its not competing with iPhone/android.
Its BBM and push email is unparalleled.....no matter how many whats app come or imassage etc etc..they dont stand a chance.But pls pls pls ....no hour glass and cheap freeze on BB10.....otherwise it will vanish in thin air.
All the very best for a super successful BB10.

Unfortunately, I think its DOA. Why? I just switched from blackberry to iphone not too long ago and the ecosystem is just to extensive. Its not the iphone 5 per say as we can all agree its just tweaks on an already really good phone (4/4s).

It's more about siri integration in almost every car by next year, complete twitter and fb integration and soon to be a universal payment system. In every aspect the iphone is becoming the customers central hub to everything . Its not just how slick the operating system. if BB10 only has that well so does windows, android and yes ios. Apple's step up is how extensive the ecosystem is becoming plain and simple.

Apple passed by on NFC, Twitter and FB integration is this new? FORD has been doing this for years. Does a car need a iphone? Nope. Siri integration for what, it half ass worked in Canada, even apple claims now it will work. What can it do that Onstar doesn't do already or anything Ford Does?

IOS does not have the power to truly run a fully integrated system in a car. BB10 is a entirely different story!

Only thing apple is good for is ipod integration for music.

Those who kneel before G*d can stand before anyone !
I hope the phone bb10 is successful for the sake of the company.

I can't believe how worked up everybody gets over a phone. Just face it. The general public (majority of people) no longer use the smartphone for practical reasons. It has simply become a fashion accessory! Everybody strives to be that person who is the first to sport the newest fashion. Really? This is just plain pathetic! Unfortunately, this is the group that RIM has to cater to if they want to increase their presence in the smartphone market. In comparison, the people who do not fall in to this group will continue to get things done and ignore all of the distractions. But as I stated before, this group represents the minority and is who RIM currently sells their products to. The sad thing is this market is extremely small and only allows a company to operate on a beer budget.

And... iPhone sales just broke all records. I agree in that the spec bumps weren't that impressive, but what matters at the end of the day is sales number. Lots of Android phones actually have really good specs, better than iPhone, but only one phone can hold a candle to it, Galaxy SIII, in terms of sales. If BB fans think that better specs than iPhone mean better sales than iPhone, than you can go back to cloud9. I really hope BB 10 phones nail it and hit massive sales numbers, I am definitely getting one.

+1

Something that we should all consider is the customer base that Apple has appealed to the most. While there are some folks who are able to transact their businesses on the iPhone, most corporates & serious business users prefer the blackberry for obvious reasons (read as email, BBM, connectivity, keyboard, etc)

The iPhone on the other hand appeals more to the younger generation, read as, school & college kids who have little to do with serious business.(Maybe something that RIM could explore too eventually).

Agree about the eco system, but also believe that RIM is putting in the effort to get the eco system for BB10 in place. Have not really come across any other company putting in the effort that these guys at RIM are putting in (count the number of JAD sessions, etc)

At the end of it, apple is what it is after 5 years of making an innovation. The fact that we are expecting RIM to crash Apple's party at one go is only setting extremely high expectations from where RIM can only fail. It would probably make sense to see where RIM is going to be in 5 years post the BB10 release & I believe that they'll probably have beaten Apple or for that matter, Android hollow.

- VHD

I'm switching to the iPhone 5 and can't wait. As a student I'm sick of RIM and being behind with everything. Blackberry's are cool is you know people that have them, but students have iPhone's so there's no point in having a berry until I get in the business world. I'm tired of waiting for apps, many of which we never even get on Blackberry STILL! I'm tired of a slow phone and I'm excited for something new. You can't compare the ease and responsiveness of even the iPhone 4s which leaves my bold 9930 in the dust. Simply, I'm sick of it and I can't wait to have all those apps at my fingertips. No more seeing an awesome commercial for an app and realizing it's not available on my berry. Blackberry won't ever be able to catch up to the apps Apple has unless they partner up which is highly unlikely because that would be a great idea and RIM doesn't like to listen to those...

Wait. Let me get my soother so you can put something in your mouth so you can quit bitching. Damn crybaby. Hang on. That's not a soother...

If you get too close to the enemy don't be surprised if you get hit by stray rounds. Leave the trolls alone or the troll-killer-bot will gag you too!