RIM Stock Trading Below Tangible Book Value Again

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By Chris Umiastowski on 13 Mar 2012 03:18 pm EDT

Last week RIM stock dipped below $13 per share, rising to end the week at $13.58. That's only a dime above the accounting value for the company after excluding goodwill and other intangible assets such as patents. But it's off to another weak start this week, trading below the $13.48 tangible book value (TBV).

The "book value" of a company is defined as the value of assets minus liabilities. For RIM, that value is about $19.45 per share. The company's stock price dropped below that level in November. Tangible book value also excludes other types of assets, which I'll explain below.

Oh, and just to be clear, book value or tangible book value doesn't necessarily help investors understand the true value of a company. So don't interpret my presentation of some financial metrics as a stock recommendation. Make your own investment decisions.

Let's dive a bit deeper.

With technology companies, often the firm's book value is not a floor for valuation. Some of the assets sitting on the balance sheet are of questionable value. Goodwill (from acquisitions), and other intangible assets (patents) are hard to value.

It's easy to inflate a balance sheet with goodwill by purchasing lots of companies, paying in stock, and paying way above fair value. Tons of telecom equipment makers did this in the 1990s. Their balance sheets were not a good reflection of true value.

Because of this, investors will often ignore these assets and calculate a "tangible book value" (TBV). This represents the value of "tangible" assets minus liabilities, rather than all assets. By ignoring hard-to-value assets, you can get closer to understanding the downside on a stock. Or so the theory goes.

Last week RIM dropped below its TBV of $13.48 per share. And that's not the first time this has happened. It happened before in December 2011, just after the company announced its highly disappointing Q3 results. At the same time as those results were released, RIM also disclosed that BlackBerry 10 devices would be delayed until late 2012.

Interestingly, after RIM stock dropped to a low of $12.45 following the Q3 results, it bounced back to above $17 late in January. At the time, there were ripe rumors circulating about the potential of a transaction between RIM and a buyer.

But then Thorsten Heins was promoted to the role of CEO. Mike and Jim stepped away from their executive roles. Thorsten made it crystal clear that RIM was not interested in being sold, broken apart, or otherwise messed with. This crushed Wall Street's justification for the rising stock price, sending it back to its record lows.

So here we are again. RIM is trading below TBV. Does this offer downside protection? Or is TBV just some meaningless number?

The way I look at it, TBV would be completely meaningless if a company was unprofitable, or was quickly moving towards negative earnings with very little hope of recovery.

In a case like that (which some believe to be true for RIM), the value of tangible assets minus liabilities would only matter if the company shut its doors and sold its assets. But most company executives are human beings who's behavior is largely driven by psychology. And it's rare for a failing company to admit that the best course of action is to shut its doors, sell off assets, and return cash to shareholders. So they fight a good fight, lose the fight, and lose value every quarter.

But RIM, in my own opinion, doesn't fit that bill. They are profitable and even most of the bears on Wall Street expect them to stay profitable. They're losing platform market share in the USA, but things seem to be flattening out there too.

I've been wrong on the stock for the last couple of years now. It hasn't been fun, and my pessimism hit a peak after last quarter's results when RIM announced that BlackBerry 10 devices would be delayed to late 2012.

But I couldn't bring myself to sell my stock because, to me, it just doesn't make sense for RIM to trade below tangible book value. CrackBerry nation is well aware of the challenges RIM faces. But will they continue to make money and own a not-insignificant chunk of the mobile phone market? I think so.

So there you have it, folks. That's my take on the stock as it stands right now. Throw in your comments and questions below. RIM will be releasing its Q4 results later this month, and I'll surely be back with an update.

Reader comments

RIM Stock Trading Below Tangible Book Value Again


If you have some money to risk, this could be a good time to risk it. A lot of money can be made by buying low and then seeing the stock rise and even exceed expectations. A lot of that will depend on what RIM does with BB10 and if they can win back some of what they have lost.

I do believe that RIM can improve its position and Wall Street's perception, but it will be a rocky ride for a while (as if it hasn't been already). If you are in the for the long haul, now could be a good time to invest.

If I was into this kind of thing, now would be the best time to acquire a lot of this stock.
I think there is little chance BB10 will disappoint based on the reception to OS2.0, the danger is the timing. Meanwhile RIM is STILL profitable and has a healthy suite of patents.

Yea who is that guy/Troll anyway?

All I know is that he's a massive Apple Fanboi who seems to have nothing better to do then to come here & bait people.

The reason he's not here right now....he's probably standing in a line somewhere waiting for his "not-so-new iPad"

Blackberry is the most aspired to brand in India, and the top handset in the UK. Americans like choices and people are going to get tired of only two flavors of phones. The Playbook 2.0 is getting great reviews, and once BB10 comes out, sales should pick up.

This stock is a buy!

$RIMM to offer 1024 bit security via BB Fusion for content management in japanese intelligent toilets "Shitoko" starting in 2013

I just think people are faithful to the Blackberry Platform. People have stuck with them this long, so I'm sure RIM has some thing up their sleeve. They have to come out with a miraculous Blackberry 10 device. If they don't they will surely fall.. But I think they will come out with something great! That's why they are waiting until late 2012 to come out with it. So they can see what other platforms do first. Patience is the key..

Yes if. RIM have Power to survive this bad times , then they are make. Money again. Remember Apple was once. Also down. Very down. I belive on rim.

RIM under estimated the competition and has continued to do so. Apple is growing big and will continue to grow bigger. While other companies get aggressive, RIM is as sluggish as ever. Its great they are doing well in developing countries, but they need their hands in the big pies, where people change their phones every other year at least and have the purchasing power to spend on content.

Maybe in the overt things said you could say so but, more importantly RIM was experiencing growth beyond their highest hopes using an OS that was architected for a very different purpose and environment at which it excelled (Edge), but had its limitations in becoming a mobile computing platform. Apple and Google have had the advantage so far of having a web optimized OS that is ultimately UNIX based. These companies were both already web companies RIM was not. RIM has had a much bigger transition to become one but they are just about there. They`ve taken 3-4 years to assemble and develop all the pieces, the centrepiece of which is their UNIX OS, QNX which sounds like it has key advantages over the other two current OS platforms. This may be why we are witnessing such a ganging up on RIM by the supporters of the other two platforms, not wanting the newest OS to have a chance to show itself to be more powerful by eroding mindshare in RIM as far as possible prior to its launch.
At worst I believe you can say they were a year late getting started on the transition/building process. At best it is a testament to their engineering that they are at this point at all.

You said it. There just scared. RIM will always be the IBM of cell phones they earned that right and nobody can ever take that from them.

Great insight into the problems facing RIM. I've known that Google and Apple use Linux based OSes, but RIM, I had no clue. I've heard that the RIM platform was the least developer friendly platform, now I know it has something to do with the core OS.
I too feel like QNX is a very capable OS, with powerful multi-tasking abilities. I feel like people just don't give them enough time to let the software application system develop. Android struggled at the beginning too but people don't seem to give QNX the same chance. Part of the reason is that RIM is the only OEM using the OS.
I've heard that QNX is quite the engineering marvel and hope that it can serve its purpose in bringing RIM back to its former glory.

Importantly, QNX was designed for low power embedded systems from the ground up, while both iOS and Android have their roots in general purpose servers. Whether this will translate into a competitive advantage I don't know, but I do know (as someone who has worked with real time embedded systems for years, and also with Unix) that if you were planning to develop a new line of phones tomorrow from the ground up and had a choice between Unix, Linux or QNX, the QNX decision would be a no-brainer if you intended to be around for a long time. It doesn't have anything that might come back and bite you.

RIM strikes back: 120 USD plastic keyboard sees light after 2 years in development. Head of Innovation Committee Lazaridis plans to launch water cooled BBs somewhere between 2015 and 2021

It's true that the BB10 has to be very very good, and the sooner it comes out the better. In the meantime, I see a lot of hopeful signs.
1. As Chris pointed out yesterday, "RIM has 6.6% of mobile subscribers in the U.S. market for the quarter ending January 2012," which was the same they had at the end of November. So, market share was flat, but the numbers of new American subscribers totals somewhere in the neighbourhood of 200K.
2. Don't you all think it's highly likely that RIM's world-wide subscriber in Q4 base has probably increased by several million? I mean, if it held its ground in the most fickle market in the world, with daily assaults from a mostly hostile media, you'd think RIM would have done very well in markets where it continues to be very popular (Canada, the UK, Netherlands, Indonesia. India, the ASEAN countries, Central America...). Next, think of the extra revenue generated through the Business Enterprise service with each new subscriber, as well as the extra apps and accessories.
3. There are all kinds of indicators that RIM sold at least a million PlayBooks in Q4. The negative in this might be that RIM took a small loss on each device sold, though this is much less likely for the 32G & 64G versions. The positives: regaining sunk costs on reduction of inventory, the huge tax-break from the writedown, and all those app sales (22% of all paid apps downloaded from App World were for the PB).
4. Also, I'm very curious to know the amount of revenue being generated by divisions such as QNX and its long list of heavy-hitting customers. http://www.qnx.com/company/customer_stories/

Lots of exciting things to come in the build-up to March 29 and the first couple of weeks after that, especially if RIM announces an earlier date for the BB10 launch.

In the prison of his days,
Teach the free man how to praise.

I am too hoping for an announcement that BB10 will come before late 2012. This will provide creditability to the strategic direction chosen by the Mr. Heins and that RIM is firing on all cylinders.

Mr. Hein, please announce something to stop the bleeding in North America and leverage the assets you have acquired during the last year or so. March 29th is the day to start beating that "war drum" and getting the competition slightly curious on what RIM will be bring to the table during 2012.

Regarding 3. :

RIM sells as much playbooks in a year as apple sells ipads on a releaseday.

How is that a good sign? (not to mention, that they had to do heavy pricecuts to even sell that many)

Oh stop, RIM does not have to be apple they just need to exist.

I still think RIM is being a bit too arrogant. They should make it easy to download Android apps to PB instead of requiring them to be posted on App world. I have 2 good android apps on my tablet NYT and FT and I'm very happy with them.

And BTW no Android tablet has come close to iPad sales either then iPad is a phenomenon as is the iPhone. The level of popularity is also likely to decline in the future. Does everyone really want THE SAME DAMN PHONE AND TABLET????? I'm thinking no. In fact in the long run I bet on windows. Better product and more producers.

Good point! Why is everyone comparing RIM to Apple all the time? Apple's market share in the tablet space is dominant! One does not have to be the most valuable company on the planet to stay in business!
I agree, there are plenty of people out there who don't want to be part of the "in-crowd". If RIM can provide a solid alternative, they will continue to do well. I too think that RIM should be more open with embracing Android apps. The average consumer does not want to go through the trouble sideloading their PlayBook just to get a couple of apps they want. RIM needs to make it easy for consumers to download all the Android apps they want.

A lot of us are happy for Apple, Raoul, especially those of us who remember when Apple occupied the position RIM is in today. Apple had 5% of market share for computers, and all the PC guys and the Microsoft guys used to mock Apple, Steve Jobs, their puny sales, etc. Anyway, in the bigger picture, selling a million PB's in one quarter is great news, especially because it dramatically reverses the trajectory:
Q1 = 500,000
Q2 = 200,000
Q3 = 150,000
Q4 = 1,000,000++?

And even though PlayBooks only represent something like 1 or 2% of all Blackberry devices in operation right now, they're responsible for 22% of all paid app sales. RIM has discovered the virtue of the Amazon/Gillette/Hewlett Packard sales model. Sell the hardware (the Fire or PlayBook, the razor arm, the printer) at slightly below cost, and make money from the repeat purchases (the apps, the razor blades, the ink cartridges). The most important thing though is that the PB is a forerunner of BB10, and the vast majority of users like what they're getting.


In the prison of his days,
Teach the free man how to praise.

Hm...I don't think I can agree with you on many of these...

1. occupying only 6.6% of the market share in the States is obviously a very small amount when there are only very few platforms available and the figure itself obviously suggest that it's now on the border (if not on the other side) of the division between a mainstream platform and one that's not...and not growing when your market share is already so low certainly doesn't sound like good news...

2. not really...there's no real correlation between not growing in the US to growing in worldwide market...since by that logic, the growing platforms would dominate the world market...and I can't say for too many countries, but from what I saw this year in Asian countries like Indonesia, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, China, BB is definitely becoming less rare on the streets...I have also seen quite a bit more iPhones in the UK last Christmas so presumably at least some of the users must have switched over from BB

3. half full, half empty...certainly it's a good thing for RIM to have more Playbook sold, but a million is a really small number for tablet market which is still relatively limited in platforms and certainly more so for something so heavily discounted. I'm not quite sure how having such mediocre sales on a heavily discounted product could be considered good news...It's certainly not a good market indication but maybe it's good in being able to cut-loss point of view...though that's not really "good" in a market perspective

We should also remember that Apple's reversal did not come primarily from their reforms on their computers...they remained an alternative/minority product with their hippy computers when they were launched...it was not until they developed an entirely different market with iPod-->iPhones-->iPad that there was a significant reversal. I remain pessimistic unless RIM manages to develop a new class of product.

Market sentiment remains negative and will continue to put downward pressure on the stock. The only way to bring back institutional investors is to provide some compelling reason see long term growth in the USA for the company, which at this very moment remains extremely cloudy. RIM's common shares can be best described as the preverbal "dropping knife". It's very difficult to catch on the way down and many (like myself and Chris) have been hurt doing so. Thus, let it hit bottom and watch for its ascent before investing your hard earn money.

Not just growth but high margin growth. I feel very positive towards bb10. People are impressed at page curl animation when changing page numbers on an iPad...bb10 will be awesome! Hahahaha

Seems like the market does not care about the hype on crackberry.com, what a surprise...

I love my berry and my playbook, but the smartphones, aside from security, are behind the competitors.
Bb10 devices will arrive in fall2012 (but if you know rim, maybe we have to wait until q4 or early 2013...) and will probably have the specs samsung already delivers today. I don't want to think about how evolved the phones will be by the time bb10 devices finally arrive.

it makes me sad, but rim needs to push, push and f-ing push the development to catch up with other devides.
Bb's main feature, security, does not sell millions of phones anymore. Its sad, but the customers want fart-apps (a drastic metaphor for useless, but entertaining apps). Rim needs to rethink their strategy

this is all rubbish that u wright it here mr>Umiastowski.Bicouse u got some rim shares u try to keep good fasion on forums:
RIM sytuation=rubbish
RIM position as a player=rubbish
RIM=outdated company
RIM=big promises
RIM=lack of amount of apps
and overall is ther own fauld!!!
I thing that below 1$ they kick them out of the nasdq

I bought some too! :) It's too low for a profitable business that only has an upside. BB10 will be a hit. Count on it! How big a hit is left to be seen, but it will succeed. Some will be skeptical, but within a few weeks, it will pick up.

The PlayBook with OS 2.0 is a good tell tale. Solidly built hardware that still rocks after 18 months! Fantastic and flexible core OS engine that will take BlackBerry a long way, and a rapidly growing collection of apps: 100% growth in App World in 6 months!

I might buy more shares :)

To you: tawroginski4

It will help if you can spell some of the words correctly! Then and only then someone might listen to you, other wise keep your pointless views where it belong with your i-maxi-pad sites (while typing from your moms basement). JK- but enough with the nonsense and bashing

BB Rule!!

Used to be bullish on RIMM, but I reckon they've become a mature corporation and will now simply cruise along at their current market share.

I don't think it even matters about BB10. Most consumers don't care, and Apple and Google are just too big to push out of the way PR and marketing wise. The negative perception of RIM isn't just about their product line.

However, while they may never again reach the heights, they have no debt and good revenue streams. After all, Samsung and HTC must now be their customers! And Apple is probably violating RIM patents in a dozen areas - so if RIM stops selling phones they'll end up an IP company.

RIM isn't going to die. They're in a terrific position in every area except the perception of the US consumer.

...and I think your point of view is pretty representative of the investment community at large, if the current share value is any indicator.

The point of this CB post, though, is that if RIM sold off all of its PHYSICAL assets (buildings, equipment, etc), they'd make more than their current market cap. That doesn't even begin to count their patents and other intellectual property. You've gotta admit it doesn't add up.

And I don't agree with the notion that RIM is a "mature" company; it is continuing to innovate in a field that seems to be changing almost by the day. TAT was a great acquisition, as was QNX; these divisions give RIM a great opportunity to differentiate its products.

RIM is "mature" in that it has become a massive bureaucracy. With all that means in terms of excessive costs and inability to change. The diminishing margins over the past few years are only partly due to price reduction.

Thorsten Heins apparently likes shallow management hierarchies. He should get moving on removing a few layers of management. (No one would notice they'd gone).

As a "young" company RIM was dynamic and responsive to change. Now it takes 2 years to develop a product that would have been released in 6 months in the past.

Which I guess is why TAT and QNX appear to have been largely left alone. The last thing RIM needs is to infect these dynamic "young" organizations with the parent companies lethargy.

And what has share price got to do with asset value? Would Apple would raise its current capitalization if it stopped trading now and sold off it's component parts?

RIMs price (like all others) is based on what people are prepared to pay for their shares based on a perception of a return. And at the moment too many believe the onslaught of negativity from all sides.

I'm paranoid enough to believe that at least some of the negative PR is sponsored by Apple and Google - directly or indirectly. They have immense influence due to the size of their marketing budgets. (And are key backers of certain well known media outlets).

The small investors I speak to tell me they're all desperately hoping for a return to fortune, but I fear RIM shares will be stuck in the $10-25 range for the forseeable future.

Even if BB10 phones are a rip snorting success, you will still see media outlets carrying a "but ...." negative message to counteract the positive. Just as was done with OS2. This is no coincidence, and I see nothing from RIM to suggest they're even aware of the problem. Therefore, I doubt the price will rise much if at all as a result of the BB10 launch, whenever it occurs.

Buying stock in Blackberry is the equivalent to purchasing stock belonging to Verizon Yellow Pages or YellowBook yellow pages. You would have to be severe MORON to invest money in a dying platform like print advertising or phones that run on non-touchscreen interfaces with few applications. I was a Storm 2 user for two murderous years. Thankfully I'm on a non-freezing, incredible communication device known as the iPhone 4S. It took me less than 2 weeks to get used to the touchscreen and it's been a breeze since. I can scan documents using my iPhone. I can watch TV on my iPhone. I can load up my cell with 300 applications without having to reboot my iPhone. Restart times is 30 seconds when my phone does hiccup, which hardly ever happens in the 5 months I've been on this thing. No hourglassing, no freezing keypads and no battery pulls. Sure, the battery life isn't fantastic, but I've gotten used to keeping my device attached to a wall charger. It beats the snot out of having to constantly battery pull or wiping the phone. I feel for those with a neurotic addiction to a BlackBerry. I pray the QNX brings something of value to the BlackBerry contingent. I would NEVER leave iPhone.

Good Luck, fellas!

Glad you found phone Nirvana! I am thoroughly enjoying my Playbook and am currently loving discovering all the awesome possiblities when pairing it up with my son`s new 9900. I`m waiting to replace my ancient Samsung flip phone this fall with a Blackberry 10! Nirvana!

WHAT?!? You posted all these comments in every article about how good your BB is and now you are telling us that you don't actually own one?!!?????

I've had 3 Iphones since 08 and none have worked well as a phone. Browser hangs, drops calls, freezes on incoming calls etc etc. So please stop with the bs.

" I can scan documents using my iPhone. I can watch TV on my iPhone. I can load up my cell with 300 applications without having to reboot my iPhone"

But apparently you can't find the carriage return key.

By the way, I've had numerous BlackBerrys, and the only time they froze on me was when I loaded dubious software.

Not possible on an iPhone (unless you root it of course - then see how reliable it is).

Chris, I read somewhere private equity firms have thought of taking RIM private when it was trading at $16 to $18 range last fall but were scared off by how quickly RIM lost market share in US. Could you please comment. As you know, the stock price is a forward discounting mechanism, RIM might be in for some tough quarters until BBOS 10 phone is released.

Keep the faith Chris, hopefully all risk taking investors will be rewarded by this time next year. :)

Wishing you the best.

Prem Watsa (new board member), did exactly that when his company was attacked by hedge funds shorting his stock.

Then he took it public again a short time later.

And RIM may have lost market share, but it's in a massively expanding market.

They're retained their primary customer base. They're just not attracting consumers switching from feature phones to smart phones.

And the reason for that has more to do with the carriers than any device capability. How many consumers in the general population use a smart phone for more than phone calls, messages and the odd web site visit?

IMO Most of the people that bash on BB never had to carry one for business purposes. Through my employers/years, I think I have carried every single BB phone since the 7200.

Today I carry a 9900 (personal) and a 4S (work)... Go figure.

I am willing to give my fair assessment here.

The 4S is great at watching the occasional youtube videos. I love the screen and resolution quality. It does a decent job with alerts for an incoming e-mail (miss the light) or upcoming calendar appointment. Overall, I am not very impressed with Siri. It is nice, but I don't really use the feature all that much. The 4S has a Skype client which is kick ass! Yes, there are many more apps, but most of them are for entertainment purposes. That really does not benefit me much though. I primarily use my phone for work purposes (hence Skype), browsing for information, etc.

Prior to BB 7, let's be fair, the BB phones were sluggish. But the 9900 feels just as fast as the 4S, honestly. Problem is, the perception damage has already been done. I really miss the BES integration. It is hands down the best smartphone/Exchange integration – no comparison. The 4S does not stand a chance in that arena. Not even the new Windows devices can touch it. In addition, the QWERTY keyboard is much more effective and speedy to type with. I find myself switching devices to respond to e-mail frequently. I hate the whole typo autocorrect thing. It reminds me of how much I hated the Pearl. The auto correct was always annoying. Also, BBM across the enterprise was awesome. I miss the messaging back and forth (even in meetings). SMS texting does not have the same feel as IM. And I hate that with so many people making the switch I have to pay AT&T more money for unlimited texting. $20!!!

I really thought in time the iPhone would win me over and I would abandon my 9900, but that has not been the case. They are just 2 very different devices. Also, I think people would be shocked how many apps BB phones actually have. The large majority of critical apps are all there. Perception is reality though and that is a B*tch for RIM.

nice summary! ... yeah .. perception is playing a major role these days .. and RIM needs to get out the bb10 to change things! ..

I do love the bold 9900 ... and can see your points well ...

Bold 9900 user

Got my first BB 9000 in 2008 and then the BB 9800 in 2010. I remember people on this forum saying then the same things they are saying now, "Blackberry is behind in apps and hardware". At the time I thought people were exaggerating and that BB would catch up with the other platforms. How wrong I was.

Towards the end of last year I decided to have a look at what the Android OS was all about and I liked what I saw. Never been a fan of Apple so it never was a consideration. I bought the Samsung Galaxy Nexus just before Christmas 2011, half way through my BB 9800 contract. It's the best thing I did and I would never go back to BB. No more 5 minute reboots after a battery pull, no more having to reboot after installing or uninstalling an app, outstanding gmail integration. The enhanced gmail app on BB was garbage.

If BB is to be a serious contender in the smartphone market they not only have to be on par with hardware and software with the other platforms but surpass them. That's the only way people will sit up and take notice.

Capitulation. Rimm stock has double bottomed and there seems to be no hope in sight.

A sure sign of the turning point.

And people who believe in stock market patterns are up there with astrologers, Scientologists and people who don't understand statistics. But you make money...for other people.

Stock market valuations of any high technology stock are usually wrong, because the industry is so complex and there are so many disruptive changes. In particular, many US analysts seem only to look at the US market. Warren Buffet has become extremely rich by ignoring all conventional wisdom and doing in depth analysis of companies and markets, so you cannot say that my opinion on this hasn't had a field test.

Warren Buffet is an investor and not a short term swing trader. He has enough clout to actually do something to affect the price of a stock, most everyone else does not. If you are comfortable riding downtrends with your money, you go right ahead. The markets are manipulated either way. So to "invest" in RIMM right now, you would be crazy. All you need is BGR to talk smack for a few days and you can lose thousands. But as a short term "trade", patterns along with other indicators do frequently prove correct.

Scale down buying is frequently painful.

You will get an idea of what is going to happen with this company soon. If OS 2.0 fixed the Playbook the next gen will be made and priced so RIMM can profitably sell them, the rumors say these are coming in April. Step one towards trend reversal. Can they sell these new Playbooks to the market at a profit?

Then maybe May maybe later but before the phones are released the banks, institutions, and maybe even our friends at Crackberry will get to see the new phones and play. We will start to hear more, a few leaks, and hopefully start the ball rolling towards a successful launch. Because this one is so important it cannot be botched.

Markets are forward looking and you will know what's what long before you can buy a BB10 phone. Scale up buying will be a lot more fun, and profitable.

Prepare for Coup de Grace from almighty Apple, Research in Backward Motion.
Time for excellent iPhone to finally appear in gloomy Waterloo.
Lazaridis, Balsillie, CEO Heinous - all of you can apply for junior janitor positions with almighty Apple.
Apple rules here, idiots.

You do realise that Apple and RIM aren't under-13 school football teams?

A lot of the pro-Apple posts remind me of a study that was done back in the 90s when Apple was in trouble. It was found that school children who used Macs were able to produce more attractive documents and presentations than children using PCs. But the content was, on average, at a lower level. The conclusion was that more literate children didn't care what the computer looked like because they were focussing on content. Less literate children did care - especially as many of them had excessive self esteem and overrated their capability.

I'm sure that knowledge is ground into Apple execs and designers. Apple products are aimed squarely at people who want to be surrounded by what they see as the trappings of success. After all, they are the majority.

It seems like yesterday that folks were predicting the end of Apple.... during the time between 1995 and 1998. I'm hoping that RIM will enjoy a similar fate. I left blackberry a few months ago (went to android), but am truly missing the efficiency of the blackberry. Smartphones can be fun for killing time, but they are downright fiddly when trying to get work done quickly.

Perception. In NA, especially the USA, BB is perceived as a dying or dead platform. That will have more impact on stock price than anything in my opinion. While BB was an true innovator, it has sadly lost it competitive edge. It needs to completely reinvent itself and fast. BB10 is its last hope if it wants to thrive and not be considered the red head step son.

I am a huge BB fan, but I am slowly I have to chose a devise/platform that if ubiquitous and on the cutting edge. BB just doesn't cut it right now. Hope that changes in the upcoming months. But even if it does, I don't know if BB will ever be widely accepted in US. They have a mighty big hole to climb out of.

In 2013, Research In Motion will not exist as we know it. It will be swallowed up by one of the potential suitors we heard about before (Amazon or Microsoft/Nokia)

I would even say by the end of this year but it looks like RIM wants to deliver on BB10.

Let's face the truth.
ROI with Rim is not going happen.
I was a big fan for years but they will never claw back and major market share. They have missed the boat long so. This may hurt but the truth often does.

why dont we all just buy a share each, with that type of rallying their stock will go up and we all make money. RIm will get outta the shitter and we will have a sense of acomplishment and value to our devices as well to rim. i think its what should nay must be done. then when "we" want a feature we will get it as we would be shareholders. you'd be surprised how far being a shareholder goes when dealing with companies. they actually treat you like a real person. i have 1 share with sony and now their tech support is above par when dealing with me. cmon do the right thing, buy a share of rim.