RIM shares close at lowest level since 2004 - Tune in tomorrow for RIM earnings call live blog

By Adam Zeis on 14 Dec 2011 04:28 pm EST

RIM Stock

As the bell rang today shares of RIM closed at they lowest level since May 2004 at $15.08. Sad news for sure, but we'll be curious to find out more when we hear from RIM on their earnings call tomorrow afternoon. We'll be firing up the live blog for some discussion as both Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie fill us in on the numbers and projections for RIM. It's no secret that RIM struggled in the later part of 2011, but we're still hopeful for great things going into 2012. Check back tomorrow at 5pm EST for more.

Source: MarketWatch

Adam Zeis Adam Zeis "Mobile Nations Content Strategist" 3740 (articles) 2892 (forum posts)

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RIM shares close at lowest level since 2004 - Tune in tomorrow for RIM earnings call live blog


i wouldnt....its still a short at least until someone decides to make a serious offer for rimm or one of the clowns steps down

Or, things show improvement from Blackberry 10 investment. Many bad management decisions. Many professionals have a low opinion of top two "clowns." Investment money has lost faith in them!

To be fair, this is probably the #1 tax loss name in a lot of accounts. I sold mine a month ago for the same reason. Maybe a buy again finally in the new year.

Argh, RIM. I hope for something positive tomorrow but it's hard to stay optimistic. I have a feeling Mike and Jim have such big egos that they are not seeing that they are running the company they created into the ground.

And common: "It's no secret that RIM struggled in the later part of 2011" is a big understatement: their stock was down by half for the year before July hit.

Would be nice to hear one of them was stepping down during the call. That would give the stock a bump

besides games, what is better on the android and apple phones? Nothing? Not sure why people hate on RIM so much. I had very few problems with the OS let alone hardware failures... Call quality is by far much better then anything out there too...

Its not just games, it's apps all around. Selection and quality are both lacking with BB.

And with iOS there is the added simplicity of the whole platform. Some that like to have advanced menus and lots of control over the OS have a problem with that, but for the mainstream consumer that (obviously) is a plus.

It's not a matter of people hating on R.I.M it's about RIM being reactive instead of proactive regarding consumer wants and desires. IOS/Android have a ton of productive/business apps.

'Call quality is by far much better THAN, not then, anything out there too'.


I agree with your post, it's why I use a BB. But people are not choosing on functionality alone - that market reached saturation in what, 2006? Now, we see the average person on the street buying a smartphone when they would never have dreamed of it years ago. It's a different customer to the one RIM is set up to cater for.

RIM's problem is that whilst their phones are very good, they are essentially the same bits of kit they've always been. Only now have they just got a decent touch screen phone sorted. People love touch screens, it's what they've been buying for the last four years and Apple and Android have been creaming it while RIM lurches from damp squib to damp squib.

RIM are unequivocally behind Apple and Android in the smartphone mindshare race and WP is gaining fast. The only product they've brought out worth shouting about since the 9700 is the 9900. The original Torch was underwhelming, they mangled it with the PB, they can't meet their own deadlines, they're always playing catch-up...

No wonder that investors in the company have lost confidence in RIM to create a product that will sell like hotcakes and pay dividends, there's been zero proof lately for them, or the press, to get their teeth into.

Why do you feel the need to correct someones spelling?I knew exactly what they just said and its not because you pointed out the mistake.Its people like you in the forums that take the fun out of crackberry. But whatever, aslong as you know it makes you look like a complete douche and your ok with that "THAN" I am ok with it.

dude, its annoying to see improper grammar. consider that a favor that it was pointed out. get with the program, grow up! you're not 16 anymore... or maybe you are? either way, show some intelligence with your writing.

Let me correct you.

Dude, it's annoying to see improper grammar. Consider it a favor that it was pointed out. Get with the program, grow up! You're not 16 anymore... or maybe you are? Either way, show some intelligence with your writing.

There you go! I didn't want to make you look like you were only 16. Good thing I caught it just in time and let you know before anyone else noticed!! Phew...

And for the record, he corrected my spelling. Not grammar... Get with the program!!

Get with the program; grow up!

Separate but related sentences are joined by a semicolon, not a comma. Commas are for sentence fragments.

Sorry, I had to chime in ;-) lol

The problem with RIM is that they believe that if they build a better mouse trap, the product will sell itself. So while they are focused on how they can sell a better product, the competition is trying to figure out how to sell a better experience. You could list 100 things RIM does better than the competition but it doesn't matter.

What sells is (why my Playbook isn't selling), hey can I watch Netflix on it, can I play Angry Birds, can I skype on it, can I get email on it? If your answer to those questions is no...but hey it's got a fast processor and flash is great on it...you've lost the argument.

Apple and even to some extent Android gets the experience sell (look at their commercials)...RIM does not..yet.

QNX devices could potentially revive RIM. The only factor that could hinder the growth of QNX devices would be lack of apps. Despite the fact that people only use 3-4 apps, they still want to have a great selection. If RIM could entice developers then I see them recovering from this.

With what will they entice developers? These devs are not flocking to the PB: basically QNX. They are not developing for the current BB market. What changes with QNX that entices devs?

There waiting for QNX 2.0 which will be what is going to be on the phones.

Any developer (myself included), why not wait until 2.0 when you have access to the features of that release instead of building a 1.0 application then have to tweak?

As for entice developers, once there is a market, there will be developers.

QNX potentially could, but having owned a PB for a few months (now sold), I must say I didn't really feel the potential as a customer.

I was told by many how brilliant it was, but I didn't get to see it as the software builds were so limited in what they could do.

There are other factors beyond apps that have a good chance off screwing things up for QNX. The first and most glaring would have to be RIM not being able to meet a deadline and overshooting by a massive margin. The next obvious one would be the QNX phone coming out and the software build is only half finished, offering none of the features that were promised. Another would be disappointing phone specs.

I would like to see them pull something kick ass out of the hat but the days of me actively hoping for, much less expecting that to happen are long gone.

I'm worried that BlackBerry 10 OS won't be enough.

The masses are not going to line up or pre-order a BlackBerry product, it will not make a splashy, grand entrance. If BB 10 is successful it will have to be a 'slow burn'. I don't think investors will have the patience for that.

I honestly think they should release Canada and Indonesia or another hot market.

US should be release very shortly after, but at least the US which is more Apple based will have some good comments to work on.

Will reach $11 or $10 by the end of the year... Although I really love the BB, I am too pessimistic about the future... Reasons:

1- BB10 phones will have no options and back buttons. Shortcuts, profiles,, sharing options,,etc
2- Android implementation is rubbish.
3- Adobe Air apps are really rubbish.
4- NDK isn't ready. TAT Cascades SDK isn't ready. If they are made ready by tomorrow, people will have to wait 6 - 12 months to see innovative, competitive and decent BB native apps.
5- Facebook, Lindkedin and Twitter and Youtube apps are made with Adobe AIR rubbish. Appworld is made using Adobe Air. Those apps will always be rubbish. AIR = RUBBISH

I hope I see a miraculous device soon. It has to be ASTONISHING. Otherwise, BB is doomed. Too many other options. Android or iPhone or Windows Phone. I don't wanna use any of them.

So much HATE aboute AIR ?!
What about the over hyped HTML5-Apps? They are even slower than air, believe me. Is everything exept native rubbish?
It allways depends on the developer. I have seen really fast and responsive air apps - and very slow ones.
Good news is, the new Air 3.0 is much faster than the previous versions and gets in some parts nearly native performance.
In some usecases air makes extremly sense, because the apps will run crossplatform. Not every customer wants to pay 3 developer teams for all 3 major platforms. The new Adobe touch-apps are made with air - and these apps are not rubbish at all. And sometimes HTML5 makes sense too.
NDK is extremly fast, but not crossplatform!
But i agree, the Appworld-App should be native. This app will never be crossplatform ;)

There is no magic pill that is going to help RIM recover its loss of share price in the short term. QNX deices are not going to be anything different from what other companies already have out on the market. And it's not like folks are going to be lining up to order RIM's next gen phones. If RIM hopes to recover, and I hope they do, they'll need to get back to basics and focus on what made them successful in the first place: the business user. Here's an idea: why not become the leader for business-centric apps? Get some strong developers to build some badass business apps that professionals will want to use. Partner with Salesforce.com, Oracle, SAP, etc and move forward down your own path instead of trying to play catch-up with everyone else.

The only thing that will make any difference to the market is when the current CEO's are gone forever and new CEO's - ones who are capable of seeing the marketplace for what it is - are in power. In short, the lack of confidence in RIM stems not from RIM's products but rather stems directly because these two clowns are still in charge.

You are so mistaken. Yes the Co CEO's are a problem but the bigger problem is implementing technology. RIM is so far behind the times and they are not taking the steps fast enough.

What a blow. I estimate 11 dollars by the end of the week. Co-CEO's have to seriously go. I praise them for starting the company but someone else needs to lead it. Its crazy how much far behind they got themselves in. This company would be outstanding at the moment in 2009. But not now. Good luck RIM..will use you till the end of your time..

I agree heartily with the first half of your statement.

I however feel that the current OS7 devices sit comfortably in today's phone market and actually excel in some areas that other phones don't. So I don't feel that the current crop of products are behind, and there's no way a 2009 iPhone 3GS comes even close.

The problem is that from the outside the company looks like a shambles. Fragmented device releases, no sales drive within stores, a half-baked tablet, a perception of lack of conviction of RIM's own direction...

I'm sure RIM could be killing it in both sales and share prices with an inferior product if their marketing, sales and service were all in line.

But the thought of them going under does worry me - I'd manage without the amazing keyboard and messaging, but it would mean a change to the way I work.

"3gs blows anything that rim has to offer to date"

So let me get this straight... your position is that the iPhone 3GS performs fellatio on any of the devices that RIM makes? I just want to make sure I'm clear about this.

If it is not a merger target it will be a bankrupt target soon. losing to much market share with nothing to get it back with. Instutional investors are leaving the sinking ship for greener pastures and when the funds dry up so will the company. What was once the top of the line sat on their ass and did not develope anything but 2 or 3 sorry phones and a playbook that is not going to ever compete with the ipad.Now thwy are behind bad in phone technology ie operating system as only businesses use BB's now. The demo that they need is 18-40 and Im 57 and I have 2 BB's and am switching to the Samsung Nexus S as soon as it hits Verizion.I do not care what problems it has i can just keep getting a new one. At least I will be able to see the HD screen. I may hate it but I will learn to like it.Sad to leave the BB behind but as with all technology it has ran its course. Not every phone is for everybody so BB's will still have lots of users just no new users. Only people who have had them forever like me.It is sad to see the company who invented the real smartphone die on the vine but that is what RIM has done.Even if they come out with a phone 10 times bettr than anyting on the market their reputation is already killed. Self inflicted wounds.

review RIM's balance sheet, it's healthy and strong.
despite the worst year ever RIM will earn profits around $2 billion.
The market has been reacting really stupid. Trading at 80% of it's book value, P/E less than 3, Nokia has better valuations than RIM and Nokia has been losing money!

Time will tell but I believe RIM will rebound next year or be sold $40+.

You said 'I do not care what problems it has i can just keep getting a new one... I may hate it but I will learn to like it'

You could save some serious cash by buying cans of tuna to speak through.

I am sorry for being very pessimistic in my last comment. Let me be very OPTIMISTIC in this comment.

1- Research In Motion is not an American company and it is highly backed by the Canadian government. Won't go bankrupt anytime soon.

2- The ONLY platform than can compete with iOS in terms of user experience, responsiveness and smoothness of apps, browser,,,etc is the QNX platform.

3- The Co-CEOs aren't too stupid to bring down the company. They have a long term plan for the future of the company. They are surely aware of what's happening. They always repeat that this Tablet business is still in its beginnings.

Thins can go well. Who knows,,, let's just hope for the best.

Actually you're wrong. The Canadian govenrment does not back RIM but rather they have done as much as they can to protect them.

However with that said, much like the great Nortel - the Canadian government, will let RIM meet its demise if that is its fate.

Being a smartphone early adopters I have used all kind of phones in the market..I don't think blackberry is an inferior product. Consumers want to play with their smartphone where iOS and Android has a breadth of stuff for them to download, play, delete, download, play, delete...the downside of android and iOS being so flooded with apps and jailbrokeb os is that the security holes is so huge..I jailbreak my samsung galaxy note and I constantly got pushed to install apps I never wanted to have but they were installed automatically..I would never trusted an android or iphone to do my private stuff. I enjoy my Samsung galaxy note and iphone a lot, they are fun to play with but at the end of the day I always go back to my trusty Bold which in my opinion is a better communication tool...I hope rim stays around because I still prefer a blackberry. Once novelty wears down I think android and iOS growth will abate. Windows mobile could be the next big things to generate interest from consumers.

I don't think you've heard the news - the latest OS RIM is building on looks like a piece of Swiss cheese. With no one caring and a very small amount of attention people have jailbroken the software before the device even came out, and now have also jailbroken the only device the saviour RIM QNX OS runs on.

Their old platform is dead and their new one has destroyed the only (often misunderstood) reputation RIM has left. It's too little, too late. Game over.

What RIM should have focused on is what made them money. Competing with Apple and Google in the flagship market is a stupid idea for any company. RIM's bread and butter was making crappy phones for 3rd world countries. Investing a huge majority of time and resources into research and development of crap that destroys your company's reputation and burns a hole in your wallet the size of the Grand Canyon is something that only 2 geniuses could have thought up - Jimbo and Mike.

idk...I for one am hoping for an early Christmas surprise. I'm hoping after Mike and Jim give us all the bad news, that they announce they found Santa's bag and pull out OS2 BEFORE Christmas. This would make all those ppl out there who are getting the PlayBook for Christmas REALLY happy and would help alot in changing people perception of them always being late.

Ya, I'm optimistic...so what???

I love the BBOS, I love the look of their current phones. But the quality of the phones is too bad for me to even consider purchasing a BB10 phone. I own a 8330 that's a pain to charge because the usb port sucks, i need to wiggle it and pray it stays charging while it just sits there. I owned a 9780 with the keyboard stutter, I own a black 9900 which bricks it's self, picked up a white 9900 because it looks awesome and the 9900's keyboard is amazing... but I've already had to return it because the space bar was fked right up.

Tell me why I should purchase anything else from RIM?

I don't think people realize that RIM is not losing money and are far from it. They remain highly profitable and they have no debt. This is an excellent entry point! My bet, given the CEO's need to get the stock price up, there is an easy way for them to do it. Share buy back! They historically have bought back shares every quarter. At $15/share they can easily afford to buy 10 million shares a quarter. This should be part of their strategy.
In such a horrible year, how to they make $2B ($4/share earnings) ?? Look at the financial statements. Don't listen to Wall street idiots, they have no clue what they are talking about.

So we shouldn't listen to Wall Street investors, analysts, etc., but we should listen to some random person on a fan-site named "theRock1975?"

Obviously RIM got the playbook right, it's the phone part they get wrong. Let me explain.... If you take Apple's huge selection of phones.... uh, er.... I mean phone..... See? ONE phone selection. Period! Apple doesn't make 8 different phones, releasing every 6 months etc etc. Rim needs to make a big screen slider with physical keyboard! why compete.with touch-only phone makers. Be different, unique and build ONE amazing phone! Call it Blackberry ONE,.then in a year or so update the guts and o/s, and call ot Blackberry ONE ENA BIT, and so on and so forth.
I find it odd that Rim tries to make everyone happy with a choice of form factors instead of giving the masses the same 2 choices as Apple.... take it, or leave it.

It's always been said that it's so much easier to focus on a companies bad fortune Vs. their good ones.
Same applies to people.

There's no question RIM is betting the farm on BB10.

I think the "live beta" (aka Playbook) was a mixed bag. While the OS showed off its multi-tasking and and graphical capabilities, the product did not achieve much traction in the overall tablet market due to its (unsaid) requirement to be paired with a BB. However, I'm sure much valuable experience was gained about the OS's stability and support requirements moving forward, so not a complete loss for RIM

Like a lot of other posters have said RIM really only has one shot left and I only hope the recent mis-steps and management blunders are a reflection of the intense focus the company is putting into this product direction.

Part of me also wonders if all of this isn't part of some sinister plot to drive the value down to take the company private and create a niche company focusing exclusively on enterprise, only on a much more selective basis.

I don't think people realize that RIM is not losing money and are far from it. They remain highly profitable and they have no debt. This is an excellent entry point! My bet, given the CEO's need to get the stock price up, there is an easy way for them to do it. Share buy back! They historically have bought back shares every quarter. At $15/share they can easily afford to buy 10 million shares a quarter. This should be part of their strategy.

In such a horrible year, how to they make $2B ($4/share earnings) ?? Look at the financial statements. Don't listen to Wall street idiots, they have no clue what they are talking about.