Official statement from Research In Motion in response to Apple's iPhone 4 Antennagate propaganda!

By Kevin Michaluk on 16 Jul 2010 11:27 pm EDT

I hoped this was coming. Here it is. A joint statement from RIM Co-CEOs in response to misleading comments from Apple made Friday by Steve Jobs at the iPhone 4 press conference:

"Apple's attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple's claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years. During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple."

- Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie

Well said guys, well said. I know it can be easier to take the path of least resistance and just let things slide sometimes, but on some occasions you just can't go that route. You called this one as it is... BS. And hey, the BlackBerry Bold 9700 owners themselves have also voiced their opinions and done the tests to back it up with real life evidence. No Bold 9700 antenna issues, thank you very much.

Reader comments

Official statement from Research In Motion in response to Apple's iPhone 4 Antennagate propaganda!



"If you are in a shit service area is where the antenna becomes a problem". Trouble is, if you have an iphone and thus are on at&t's network, you are more often than not in said shit service area. Beyond this, the point is that apple has tried, wrongly, tocartoon phone
tablet pc
drag other companies into this problem when they should just own up to shitty hardware. As wonderful as the iphone is, Jobs needs to get the dick out of his ass and take responsibility for this type of thing. Period.

have proved its an overblown issue. How overblown? Well for over 3 million iPhone 4s less than 1% have bitched to Apple about.

The media is sticking it to Apple, not its customers. Its almost as pathetic as Nokias post, they should be envious of their numbers even with faulty hardware.

I don't think that statistic says much about anything. Many people don't even call in to the carrier for problems such as this one, let alone, the manufacturer of the device. When you are presented with statistics, you have to take it with a grain of salt. It is clear that you haven't and have accepted it as cold hard fact that has no room for analysis.

Its not that big a deal. This has been overblown by the media (see every gadget blog and cell maker), if it were a complete shitstorm you'd see people throwing these things back at Apple at lightning speed but they arent, Apple is offering full refunds and only a 1.7% return rate (do the math) on 3 million devices. Statistics don't lie.

I've had my fun poking at Apple (after all i do use an Android device)but Jobs smacked all the blogs and media with irrefutable facts and numbers and actually had the balls to say it drops 1 more call on average than the honed 3GS.

Talk to someone who actually owns one, and they will tell you the same thing, you have to death grip it to lose signal at full bars. If you are in a shit service area is where the antenna becomes a problem. If you decide to keep a phone with shit service the only idiot is the person who bought it, not who made it.

Now excuse me while i play some Metroid Fusion on my EVO

"If you are in a shit service area is where the antenna becomes a problem". Trouble is, if you have an iphone and thus are on at&t's network, you are more often than not in said shit service area. Beyond this, the point is that apple has tried, wrongly, to drag other companies into this problem when they should just own up to shitty hardware. As wonderful as the iphone is, Jobs needs to get the dick out of his ass and take responsibility for this type of thing. Period.

Statistics don't lie. You're a freakin' putz! Statistics are the single most twistable way to represent numbers. 1.7% is horrible. I wouldn't even deal with a seller that had 1.7% negative feedback on you know what bay. 1.7% is a very large number of people. What if 1.7% of your family was killed on purpose. Would that still be "NOT BAD"? I thought so. Apple screwed the pooch on this one and they're dragging a decent and innovative company like RIM with them. Hell no! Leave the good guys out of this one APPLE!!! You're starting to rot and stink.

uMad. Why would i relate a statistic to a dead family member? Maybe if that person had cancer maybe. Pull your head out your ass.

I guess when the statistics and numbers don't work in your favor people get angry. But they are oh so irrefutable.

1.7% defect rate is horrible - And it's actually probably higher because a lot of people do not report problems... they just "deal with it" like Jobs told them to do a few weeks ago (when he told them to hold the phone differently). A company like Apple is expected to be very close to 0.00034%.

RIM's horrific failure on the Tour trackball issue was what made Verizon push Android so hard last fall... and look where that has lead us.

1.7% is 51,000 devices returned... thats not a big deal to you? The device JUST came out a month ago.

And thats only the return rate, i bet you alot of people are not smart and just put up with the problems. Do you really think they would put out a press release about this POS? It was clearly a tactic to bring RIM who is probably their next competitor in line.

Apple is a Rip off company, Sure they make cool products but they over-hype them to be greater then they really are.

Look at Macs for example. The hardware inside its machine is approximately 1 year older then when PC's first got it. Therefore, Intel and other manufactures sell their products to apple for alot cheaper since it is older and can be manufactured quicker...THEN Apple jacks up the price so much. Did you know Apple makes over $250US per Ipad sold... come on... what a joke. Anyways, now im just rambling on...

Considering all the screwed up devices RIM has pushed (forget the 9630/9530 have we)out im sure their return rate was well into the double digits one of which was said to been as high as 40%....Their return rate is still much smaller than the 3GS per phones sold. You could say its troubling if it were higher than the 3GS.

Apple has the best warranty program bar none, if there is something wrong all it takes is a call or trip to an Apple Store, since obviously Apple users are idiots and are wondering why their phone isn't working. Jobs posted those numbers too. For such a widespread problem not a lot of **ACTUAL IPHONE OWNERS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT IT**. If this were as bad as the RRoD you could probably bitch but irony of that is people are still buying those too.

Don't be mad cause Apple is getting paid. Apple products are desirable by many simply because they do just work and are accessible by damn near everyone. Their mobile products are by far the best in the industry (Macbooks, iPads, iPhones, iPods) and no one has yet to create a superior All in One device like the iMac even with its exclusion of Blu-ray. The only rip off macs are the Mini and Mac Pro.

You're no better than Jobs. The only point anyone is trying to make here is that Apple made a mistake, whatever or however it happened, it did happen. Sitting here pointing fingers at other companies to try and make it look like less of a mistake is maybe the worst possible thing you can do. Yes, the 9630 was a horrible mistake, but RIM didn't sit here and blame it on anyone but themselves & they took the necessary steps to rectify the situation (i.e. replacing the tours with the faulty trackballs with the "green dot" tour; I was one of those tour owners). Nobody's perfect, just own up to it. Real men admit their mistakes. You bother are acting like children.

You're no better than Jobs. The only point anyone is trying to make here is that Apple made a mistake, whatever or however it happened, it did happen. Sitting here pointing fingers at other companies to try and make it look like less of a mistake is maybe the worst possible thing you can do. Yes, the 9630 was a horrible mistake, but RIM didn't sit here and blame it on anyone but themselves & they took the necessary steps to rectify the situation (i.e. replacing the tours with the faulty trackballs with the "green dot" tour; I was one of those tour owners). Nobody's perfect, just own up to it. Real men admit their mistakes. You both are acting like children.

Does the statistic take into account that AT&T made improvements to their network since the release of 3GS. If the iphone 4 was release last year I suspect the drop call numbers will be even higher.

You honestly think apple fan boys are gonna call Apple and complain about their iPhone 4s? The thing could be made of lemur droppings, and as long as it says iPhone on it it'll sell tons.

No its not overblown , Apple made another useless toy with serious problems this time . Plus Steve (blow) Jobs just expects people to just put with it and keep their mouth shut . Seriously in one email he said your holding it wrong . WTF like.

I mean you spend that amount of money on a phone that you can barely make phone calls with . That's why I call it a toy . Typical big company thinking . Fxxk the customers and just sell the damn product . We make a bad product and people buy it . Say nothing and keep selling .

People have been bitching to RIM for months about the browser and app space plus other stuff for months now. They didn't blame anyone for their mistakes or failures . They took it on the chin and stepped up to the mark . Starting fixing things fast and best as they could . Best thing they could now is push blackberry 6 out faster and other stuff . Prove to the people that RIM have the best smartphones out there.

Your a coward Jobs and not a man . Wake yp for yourself Apple fanboys.

No its not overblown , Apple made another useless toy with serious problems this time . Plus Steve (blow) Jobs just expects people to just put with it and keep their mouth shut . Seriously in one email he said your holding it wrong . WTF like.

I mean you spend that amount of money on a phone that you can barely make phone calls with . That's why I call it a toy . Typical big company thinking . Fxxk the customers and just sell the damn product . We make a bad product and people buy it . Say nothing and keep selling .

People have been bitching to RIM for months about the browser and app space plus other stuff for months now. They didn't blame anyone for their mistakes or failures . They took it on the chin and stepped up to the mark . Starting fixing things fast and best as they could . Best thing they could now is push blackberry 6 out faster and other stuff . Prove to the people that RIM have the best smartphones out there.

Your a coward Jobs and not a man . Wake up
for yourself Apple fanboys.

No its not overblown , Apple made another useless toy with serious problems this time . Plus Steve (blow) Jobs just expects people to just put with it and keep their mouth shut . Seriously in one email he said your holding it wrong . WTF like.

I mean you spend that amount of money on a phone that you can barely make phone calls with . That's why I call it a toy . Typical big company thinking . Fxxk the customers and just sell the damn product . We make a bad product and people buy it . Say nothing and keep selling .

People have been bitching to RIM for months about the browser and app space plus other stuff for months now. They didn't blame anyone for their mistakes or failures . They took it on the chin and stepped up to the mark . Starting fixing things fast and best as they could . Best thing they could now is push blackberry 6 out faster and other stuff . Prove to the people that RIM have the best smartphones out there.

Your a coward Jobs and not a man . Wake up for yourself Apple fanboy. Apple do recall and give people back their money so people can buy a proper phone that can phone calls . Try a bb 9700 cos its got reception lol. RIM take this chance now and push something new out in the next few days .

Can someone delete the duplicates and leave this one which is the full post . Thx guys

You realize 1% of 3 million is 30,000 people who have reported this an issue? And that only in extreme cases do most people bother to complain about an issue(to the extent of contacting the manufacturor)?

RIM and NOKIA are world's leading companies making their own wireless devices, they are making it from decades and they are champs in this technology.

Apple is computer company selling any thing they can sell good.

I am really shocked to read Steve (blow) jobs pointing fingers on RIM and NOKIA, instead they should work to perfect their own devie.
Shame you Steve (blow) Jobs.

Champs? For real? One word: Tour.

The maturity with which you comment knocks the average BlackBerry user maturity level down a few notches. You're embarrassing everyone. Grow up.

If RIM really believes that Apple is skewing information and wrongly portraying the 9700 design, then RIM should simply sue Apple. At the minimum hold a press conference and educate public of how Apple is deceiving. It is very clear that Apple covered all other phones with whole palm at the antenna locations to make them drop the the signal. Apple did not hold the phones in natural holding style. An iPhone 4 actually drops signal if its just touched in natural holding style on the edges. Holding the phone is different from un-naturally shielding the antenna. A statement doesn't stop the damage Apple's wrong propaganda is causing. I wonder what RIMs management is doing. They should have filed a case against Apple on Friday itself while the topic is hot.

WOW never seen RIM move so fast. Maybe RIM should try moving that fast in other areas. I think the response wasn't even needed. All Apple was doing was pointing out that bars drop on phones where the antenna area is touched with your bar hand. Which is true for any phone. Geez, RIM calm down, and go back to working on delaying OS6 and all your other out dated crap.

boom goes the dynamite.

Great response. Just like they said--Apple had zero, zilch, nada reason or justification to bring RIM into this. Steve-o is one pompous ass.

I totally agree with Mike & Jim here, its totally unacceptable to say this & if your products has flaws why blame others and try to prove that problems exists in all of them

On another note. Sort of. A co-worker has the iPhone 4 and he said that he will probably take it back and get that new samsung cap.. something or other. He showed me a video and the author said he really like the tapper at the top and bottom. "THAT'S WHAT THE STORM HAS." Flattery I guess.

I'm getting #TeamAndroid to run with this, this has to be tweeted all weekend long, Still love my Storm btw

Yes, blackberry doesn't need a case but it does drop signal in the "deathgrip". Tried it after watching the conference.
If I were RIM I'd go one better and release the actual numbers of BB 9700 dropped calls(apple clearly have something to hide), the actual numbers of returned bb 9700 and to add to RIMs genius reply, RIM redesigns the antenna on iphone4, has a press conference and shows what there team of 18 phd scientist and engineers can do.

That's how u play the media game.

Love it, and think it's funny that Jobs chose RIM to pick on. That says a lot about RIM's quality and standards. Especially when his complaint failed to be valid.

It's very low of Jobs to try to deflect the public's attention to the issues with his iPhone by throwing a red herring about RIM. I have used my BlackBerry to make calls in low signal areas (my bedroom) and it doesn't drop them.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Apple!

While I agree with rims statement, my wifes lg phone gets much better reception than my storm 1 ( both vz). Apple has issues with tlthe iphone4 no doubt. But my radio strength with the storm is horrible compared to my wifes cheap lg on the same network even when three feet apart.

"One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity."

Steve Jobs and Apple are classless. I am so glad that RIM published a statement....trying to not only discredit BlackBerry but also Android is wrong! All of the iPhone fans will overlook it but those of us on BlackBerry and Android know the real deal.....the iPhone is a toy.

My favorite part of the statement

"One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity."

Awesome, just Awesome :)

I received it straight from RIM. Media statement. Posted the second I received it so we were likely first up online with it which is why you haven't found it elsewhere yet (I was hoping they'd have a statement today so had the post title prepped. Copy and pasted the statement and it was live within seconds of receiving it from RIM. I'm speedy that way).


I wondered, when I spoke with our RIM contact a couple months ago he said that sometimes he finds out news from CrackBerry before he gets it in his own E-mail from the company. :)

<3 CrackBerry

Jobs is such a pain in the a** everytime something goes wrong with there f***** up iphone they try to throw others under the bus. Smh looks like the iphone 4 was a fail the first month ( even though they sold alot)

Selling 3 million+ phones in 3 weeks is far from a fail. RIM could only dream of numbers like that. Their lucky Apple only makes one smartphone.

RIM sold 10.5 million phones in the last quarter - that's 3 months - that's about 3-4 million per month -and that is without any apple pent up demand like there is for the iphone- so yes, Rim doesn't have to dream about it

Taking responsibility for your own products, and actions is all anyone can ask, but throwing stuff around and trying to draw in others when it's clearly your problem alone. Is immature not to mention that the information is clearly false and untrue .. I have tested the proposed antenna issue with my 9700 and it did not budge even once, signal strong no problems with completely covering the phone. Zero signal drop

Looks good on RIM for saying it how it is.

"One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity."

Dying here.

if you hold theres regularly and not hard it will still lose service and with the videos the posted they were gripping them hard

I actually like Apple products (I'm using one right now as I type this comment) and I think the iPhone is a great device.

That said, I'm also a happy BlackBerry user, and trying to bring RIM into all of those does Apple no favors. Just admit you've got problems, and you're going to fix them. People will be far more forgiving of you if you do that.

Apple won't admit they have a problem. The moment they admit they f'd up, everyone will be clamouring for replacement, fixed iphones. 3 million is a heckuva lot of iphones to repair/replace. Cheaper to distract from the issue.

way to go RIM, glade you didn't let this one slide by today without a response - now apple do your recall and try again

**Rim drop 0s6**

I've never been more proud to own a blackberry. Free cases?! Come on...that's like giving users a band-aid. I use both PC's and Macs, and I definitely prefer the Mac. The only reason I would get an iphone would be for the apps. Not worth all this trouble though. I'm really excited to see what's in store for RIM.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Apple needs to admit they made a mistake and fix things and quit deflecting their problems. "Hey Kevin if the guys over at TIPB have not seen the statement, maybe you should make them aware if you haven't thrown it in their faces. LOL!"

HAHAHA I love how he worded this. It's gonna make Apple hate RIM even more. If i were the CEO i would probably just say there were no issues with Blackberry antennas (to avoid conflict). The fact that he went so far as to say Apple created this "debacle" themselves just made me laugh.

Apple didn't just bring RIM into it they also brought Droid and Samsung. This just makes me sick about Blackberry and their FANBOYS.

Grow up and face the facts that its not just Apple that loses bars.

I own both and it happens to both iPhone4 and BB9700 I'm not crying as is Rim and their FANBOYS.

Grow up and become Gentlemen.

Oh really? Your 9700 drops calls when you're holding it in your hand as Steve Jobs showed in his presentation? You must be the only one then.

RIM simply defended its product, as it should have.

People here are ecstatic because they are Blackberry users. That doesn't make them fanboys. RIM did what was proper, which was to address an issue that their product was accused of. Jobs was wrong for bringing in other companies' products. Their design flaw is just that, a flaw that doesn't affect ANY other smartphone on the market in the way that it drastically affects the iPhone 4. That being said, I've owned an iPhone 3GS and it was great. I think the iPhone is an outstanding device, but the way Jobs has handled this entire situation has been a disaster. "Hold it a different way"? "Spend more money and buy a case" to alleviate a problem that shouldn't exist to the extent that it does? I thought highly of Apple until this debacle.

What a catch phrase! You see I own a BB9700 and a iPhone4 so which fan boy would I be because people on this site and on the TiPb site are always spouting FanBoys. Blackberry fanboys and Apple fan boys.
I'm a Blackberry user and an Apple use but you don't see me crying and touting fowl. Hey i have a case on my 9700 and iPhone and have had one on every phone I have owned its a cheep investment for a expensive item, and if people don't like seeing their bars drop then why not put a case on it. I never knew my Bold 9700 would drop bars until Apples so called problem started. As I posted a week ago on Crackberry when I heard about it I took the case off both devices and found both to drop 2-3 bars each but that was all.

What Steve-o did there was say "Yeah, iPhone 4 drops calls does that one, and that one, and that one!" And for a lot of people, there's signal loss when they put a case on their phone, not when they take it off.

I'm a 9700 owner and I was an iPhone 3G owner--but in low-signal areas, the 9700 still kept a strong voice call when the signal strength showed maybe 1-2 bars, but on the iPhone, the voice was garbled and eventually the call was dropped.

When you make claim that your product is 'the best phone' you'd better make damn well sure it acts like 'the best phone.'

Admitting you made a mistake and put design before function would be acting like a gentleman.

Saying everybody else does it, so we can too not so much. Trying to deflect bad iPhone PR to the other manufacturers is about as immature as it gets.

By the way.... your time might be better spent elsewhere if you don't like us FANBOYS on (what's the site name again?... oh ya) CRACKBERRY

Gentleman-: a man whose conduct conforms to a high standard of propriety or correct behavior

I own a Blackberry and a iPhone, do you own a iPhone or a Blackberry? I don't like fanboys.

You can type the meaning of the word gentleman, but you my friend don't seem to have the faintest idea of what it truely means. I think by now everyone understands that you own both phones. Not sure that is deserving of the high praise that you appear to be seeking.

That being said, many smartphones suffer from some sort of issue from time to time. The discussion here is merely about how Apple botched the handling of the situation. They are normally very strong in the PR department. RIM speaking out in defense of their product was in my opinion a strong move. Of course, that is my opinion.

My household has a few BlackBerry's, an iPhone and an Android. Everyone is happy with their phones. They all do some pretty amazing things.

facetious - bantering: cleverly amusing in tone; "a bantering tone"; "facetious remarks"; "tongue-in-cheek advice"

and yes, I own a Bold 9700

Too funny. Sometimes I just laugh at some of this. People get so caught up in it. They are phones.

Great couple of posts.

Apple should be comparing dropped calls not "bars". Bars don't mean anything if you can't connect. The iPhone 4 has a hardware design flaw not a software issue. Apple really needs to leave all other companies out of their problems and focus on their own issue.

Does Apple need to wait to till an emergency call drops and someone does not get the assistance they need before they cut their loses and fix the hardware issue? I can see Apple blaming the customer for not returning the phone when it happens.

I have to hand it to RIM for the professional response.

I'm so glad that RIM stood up and threw this back where it belongs at Apple and their poor design. Way to go RIM!

That's pretty rich considering the POS antenna on my tour...4 bars, 2 bars, 3 bars, no bars...I've seen less movement on my stereo equalizer! :P

Translation! Even though Apple is essentially using the Blackberry Bold 9700 as an example of a smartphone that also loses bars when gripped in certain ways, and even though Apple is arguably profiting from what we allege to be a falsehood, we can't actually make them remove the depiction of the 9700 because what they claimed is the actual truth. So instead of having a U.S. court grant a temporary restraining order followed by a preliminary injunction, we will simply release this statement and let that be the end of it.

Sadly, RIM is in such bad shape that Apple knows it can drop images of the 9700 on its site without concern that iPhone users will eventually purchase a Blackberry. However, the reverse isn't true. It's over guys. . .you're now rocking the Betamax of the smartphone world. Cheers.

I guess the amateurish way that Apple handled this situation without regard to its customers, its very own product and with complete lack of integrity still plays well with certain crowds.

Apple acts like they hear the footsteps of what they really fear, google and the android. No one would be talking about this had they handled it with integrity. I find it very interesting how this whole situation developed. Apple has always seemed above this. All of these company's have some product issues from time to time. I have just never seen Apple handly something so poorly. That is what surprised me.

In my household, we have BlackBerry's, an iPhone, and an Android. Everyone seems to be happy with their phones. They all do some pretty amazing stuff.


". . .you're now rocking the Betamax of the smartphone world."

That had me laughing:-) I love my BlackBerry - I see it more as an Elcassette than a Betamax though - especially because it's an improvement on anything else available but only appreciated by those 'people of quality' who're 'really in the know' about such things:-)

I reckon the iPhone4 could turn out to be the DCC of Apple's line-up if things carry on as they are though:-)

Holy crap....I watched the press conference. Jobs needs to eat something before a gust of wind comes by and carries him away to never never land. On second thought...can someone lure him to Florida? It's hurricane season. ;)

Ironically, as I type this, Leno is doing his monologues and is bringing up the iPhone and the press release. Funny.

Talk about the company but not the mans health. He has had a liver transplant. This just shows the mentality of the people on this web site. Makes me ashamed to be part of the Blackberry owners.

My comment has nothing to do with being a Blackberry owner. I'd said the same thing if I owned an Android phone, WinMo, or Apple phone. It was a joke. Relax.

On a side note, I've been watching the rest of the media conference on Apple's website. I also found it funny that every time he said "X marks the spot" referencing the black marks on the side where you should not touch, each time it was highlighted with a circle, not an X.

While I don't agree with Steve-O bringing RIM, Android, and WinMo into "antennagate", I will commend them for being prompt to resolve the issue and trying to take care of their customers. I'll never own one, but can see why they appeal to some people.

if you're ashamed to be a part of the CB website due to the fact that someone might have made a joke you should leave and not be the sole defender of a dude that clearly doesn't need your support.

Personally, I'm a little tired of seeing him in his laid back bluejeans and black shirt. It never seems like he fully means business with such casual attire. Sure, it kind of makes him seem like a hipster douche. I really would like to see him come out with a pair of khakis and a collared shirt. He could keep the semi-casual look, but at least make it look like he's done the laundry in the past couple of months.

Thats whats wrong, you don't joke about someones health. But than again what is Crackberry a bunch of Crack users or do you eat s--t out of someones crack.
Now I'm sinking as low as everyone else on this site.
Good night CrackHeads!

Great Response by RIM. The only thing I have noticed through this whole thing is the arrogance of Steve Jobs and Apple. I was very surprised how Apple has mishandled this whole thing. The masters at PR fell flat. They should have fallen on their sword and taken responsibilty. This thing could have been out of the news early on. First, they blame the user "You're holding it wrong." Then denying the problem while looking for other business partners to blame. Now claiming a competitors phone has similar issues. I like Apple products and admired the company as a great success story. They have a lot to learn about handling a problem such as this.

Enough of the blame game, step up and say "This is the issue we are experiencing with the phone...". Then say "This is what we intend to do to resolve the issue...". Then finish by saying "Thank you very much for your patience. We appreciate your business and loyalty". That will strengthen the perception of your company rather than weaken it. As it stands, Apple looks at times childish through this debacle. It will be interesting if they can somehow stumble into showing some integrity.

It would be nice if company's handled issues honestly and with responsibility. This seems to Apple's turn to learn from a series of mishandled events.

Apple just inadvertently gave RIM a lifeline by making such a statement. Apple left themselves wide open, and RIM took full advantage. In the rebuttal, RIM pretty much tore apart Apple's credibility, while promoting the Blackberry devices as far superior to the Iphones. Jobs needs to think before he talks next time...he just did more damage to his company.

Haha! My iphone 4 owner co-worker and I today covered my 8900 with 4 hands in the "death grip" and it didn't lose 1 bar. His iphone 4 however, lost 3G and a bar with one hand. He says "damn tmobile" I said "no! Its the blackberry!" Tested with no covers on the phones...he'll be ordering his free cover, I'll have all my bars. ;)

When I saw on Apple's website that they said the Bold 9700 had the same issue, I was like um no, it doesn't. I've held my Bold every way possible and I've never had that problem. Just because they got something wrong doesn't mean they have to drag all the other companies in with them. I've had 8 BlackBerry's. That issue didn't occur on any of them.

I've never been one to get worked up over a phone, but Jobs is straight up a dickhead and why more people can't see that I'll never know. Apple is innovative but their self-righteous chest pounding whenever they reinvent the wheel is sickening. My gf was so pumped the other week when she discovered she could create a folder on her 3GS after updating to iOS4. Jobs' stunt today was outright embarrassing as a last-ditch effort to yet pull the wool over consumers' eyes again by dragging other companies into it. About as sorry as when they said, "Hey dummy, hold it differently. It's your fault for having hands and wanting to hold this to your ear so you can talk into it." I'm just curious who Jobs will decide to place the blame on his faulty product on next. Trust me he's got that PR dept working 24/7.

I don't hate Apple, I use a MacBook Pro, I'm just really surprised at how they handled this whole thing. I can't believe this was never discovered during testing.

I wrote a whole rant, and I must say it was pretty good but when I tried to post it my girlfriends Macbook reset on me.

Im not trying to make a joke this really happened and I cant rememeber what I wrote so F*ck you apple, dont try to bring others into your mistake we all know that it was overlooked and that the phone was sent out anyways because you just wanted to make a quick buck, send out a F*cking recall and maybe just maybe youll get some of your loyal customers back, if not they will probably switch to RIM you funny looking dumb ass!

It was strong, it was GOOD! I don't remember anyone complaining and suing RIM for signal problems in their devices. No need for cases too, LOL!

Pointing the finger at other companies is not a way to salvage what's left of your credibility. The only Apple product I use is an iPod (which, by the way I've had to replace several times because a: the HD dies b: the headphone jack dies c: the trackpad no longer works properly). There's something to be said about this...but I believe that this link sums up what that is quite nicely.

Welp you know what they say about mudslinging, Personally Im happy that the Big wigs @ RIM decided to step up and address Apple's attempt at trying to project their problem on the rest of the smartphone community. From and ethical standpoint Apple should have just stood up and accepted the blame for their faulty antenna design and just worked on fixing it instead of dragging other products into the mud with em. But we see how that backfired and for that Apple deserves any kinda backlash that will result from this............"Steve you really dropped the ball this time didnt cha, shouldn't talk bad about Blackberries unless u got the facts to back it up!"

I'm so glad that apple is a grown-up sort of company that can admit when they've messed up... Oh, wait.. Never mind. Who the hell want's an iphone anymore anyway? There are many more, much nicer phone out there. iphone was on top like 4 years ago, but oh, how the mighty have fallen eh? Perhaps apple should have done more testing on their bright and shiny piece of crap before they rushed it out to the market like they had.


If want another Apple shocker, Watch this report by the BBC on how Apple check for water damage. Litmus Paper built into the casing Yep you did read it right.

Steve Jobs and Apple need to get a grip on reality, It's like a car manufacturer saying all makes of car have the same fault. Someone give Stevie a pacifier lol.

No I'm not a fanboy yes I do prefer Rim to Apple but am clever enough to understand that RIM has every right to defend itself against an unjustified attack

So true anyone that knows the cellphone industry knows that RIM provides the most reliable and well designed phones.

Dear Sirs:

This was reported by Crackberry on July 16 at 11:30 Pm

"Apple's attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple's claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years. During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple."

- Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie

I reported last week to Crackberry that I could do just what Apple said in their news conference today, it was nothing against Blackberry. I own a Bold 9700 and my statement was it was no big deal. This is my third Blackberry. For you to say you have avoided the problem is in fact a misstatement. Your phone does the same thing without a case on it that the iPhone does and it does no harm to either phone.

Now for the big question Since my Bold 9700 does what the iPhone does are you going to fix my phone because it must be defective.

BB9700 don't have any antenna issues like or unlike ip4,
Get out of steve(blow) Jobs hypnotic speech....
How can you fix some thing if it isn't broken.
You are a apple fan boy, and now trying to drag RIM so that you can distract attention from apple.
God try but you failed.
We figured out the trick.

I just can't believe Jobs actually brought RIM into this. It aggravates me to no end. The iPhone 4's antenna design is a problem without a doubt and for them to bring RIM into it is just unbelievable.

Just RIM or every other phone manufacturer? Please be clear, because if you are just defending RIM then your argument doesn't hold any water.

RIM and Nokia should be talking to their lawyers and sue steve jobs and apple for defamation of their products.

For the 1.7% of returned phones there are many thousands more that won't send their phone back because they don't want apple to look bad or they can't be bothered.

Apple made a seriously dodgy product and has to take responsibility for a poorly designed and built product instead of trying to bring the 2 most reputable phone manufacturers down with them

I have never had any issues with any Blackberry and Antenna issues.

I use apple products, but this was uncalled for.

Like a 6 year old crying to momma, "but he did it!".

What was uncalled for was the media jumping all over the iPhone 4 without presenting the full picture. Painting the iPhone's antenna issue (which Apple is not denying) as though no other phone has the same problems. Every phone does, which is a fact. It just so happens that the iPhone 4's design makes the problem even more pronounced than other devices.

Apple is not blaming others for their product's design faults. The press conference was about educating the media, many of whom were acting like 6 year olds just to get hits to their sites. That was an unfair battle, so Apple has every right to educate them. Try to see both sides. Would you let you company take a beating without taking some kind of action? What action would that be?

"Painting the iPhone's antenna issue (which Apple is not denying) as though no other phone has the same problems. Every phone does, which is a fact" ... If you are talking about signal attenuation due to the human body then yes, you will get around -3dB of loss. HOWEVER if every phone has this issue, then that can be marked as a baseline, and for all intents and purposes, be ignored (since they all behave the same). The iPhone attenuation is -20dB! That is simply unacceptable, especially when good reception on an iPhone is about -90dB and signal loss will occur around -110 to -115dB. That means that if you have anything less than stellar reception, your call drops... the math isn't hard. Comparatively, a blackberry will regularly get -70dB.

What most people don't realize is that dB attenuation isn't linear.. a drop of 6dB isn't 2x as bad as a drop of 3dB, its logarithmic, so a 3dB drop means you loose half your signal, 6dB would mean you loose half, and then half that again (75% total). Look at this chart from

1 dB attenuation means that 0.79 of the input power survives
3 dB attenuation means that 0.50 of the input power survives
10 dB attenuation means that 0.1 of the input power survives
20 dB attenuation means that 0.01 of the input power survives!!

0.01 is 1% of the signal strength, why anybody at Apple thought this antenna was worth letting off the drawing board, they must have been insane.

Apple deflected sure... they showed other phones suffering signal loss. Who really even holds their phone that way? If anything I think most people hold their phones the way you see them held before tightly squeezing. No one puts that much physical pressure on their phone while calling...

There is a post at FoneFrenzy that shows video of the iPhone 4 losing signal with just one finger touching.

I know my curve doesn't lose signal from touching with 1 finger.... T.T

Oh well. PR is PR

Apple is ashamed that in order for the iPhone 4 to work they need to put an iCondom on the phone in order to perform. Where as a RIM device works with or without a case.

RIM has had their own faulty designs. This isn't Apple vs. RIM. I don't know why people here are making it out to be that. This is about Apple educating the media with facts, figures, and insights into the behind-the-scenes operations. The internet has made it too easy for anybody to be a reporter, which is doing readers a disservice.

Coolfactor, read my response to your last comment, before you spout that crap about facts and education again. Apple made it Apple vs RIM when they tried to bullshit the media and throw RIM under the bus. Yes you will get a pro RIM slant here, but did you not notice the website name? If this were an Apple site, any dissenting opinion would be flamed right out the door. We are for the most part willing to discuss like adults.

What a cheek Apple has trying to deflect from their own flaws by trying to blame others. I have grasped my Bold 9700 with both hands completely covering all sides and not even a one bar drop so he is talking rubbish. As much as I like some of Apple's products it almost puts me off buying from them again.

I did have a grip, a very strong grip and no loss of signal, oh and it doesn't drop calls just because I have the phone next to my face. Sorry, but if the phone has faults then all I expect is for him to address them. Really no need to bring other manufacturers into it.

How about this Iphone haters. I can get my Storm 2 to drop bars if I hold it the same way... What does that mean?

I find it disgusting seeing all of the comments bashing Apple and Steve Jobs. Grow some maturity, people.

Steve was not bashing RIM as a company. Steve was comparing the iPhone (a smartphone) to a Blackberry (another smart phone), and clearly stated facts of physics that certain grips will block the wireless signal. It's true that the iPhone 4's external antenna presents additional challenges, but that fact that the new antenna actually performs better than the previous models is a testament to its final design. But yes, it's also more sensitive.

RIM users should be thanking Apple for cracking open the cellular and smart phone industries and showing the existing companies the path into the future.

Yes let's all think SJ for taking the little piece of plastic off the antenna so we could gain at more 1-2dBm of extra signal strength. Just make sure not to hold the phone in a comfortable position or you'll lose around 90dBm of signal srength...

I guess I shouldn't expect a mature response from the Blackberry community. It sure isn't representing itself well here.

*click* *click* *click*

Remember that lovely Blackberry?

Nobody can deny, not even you, that the introduction of the iPhone has made all smart phones better, even your Blackberries (eventually).

I assume now you are bitching about haptic feedback on the storm, which I will agree not everyone likes, there are those that love it too.

How much is SJ paying you to troll this website and try and get some sympathy? If the answer is nothing, you need to tone down the rabid fanboism, it's nauseating.

iPhones are not, and have never been innovative for features. Hell you couldn't even copy and paste on one until v3. Steve derides an option one year, only to sell it the next as the greatest thing since sliced bread. The introduction of the iPhone has made all smartphones dumber, and made people used to expecting less, and thanking him when the products don't even live up to those low standards.

Since SJ made false claims about other products to muddle the situation, I feel that his "statistics" are also likely false. After the failing, comes the flailing. Next he will blame the whole thing on Dubya.

Seriously, what is it with claiming that Steve was "blaming" anybody but physics and their own design decisions, which they are owning up to? What makes you an expert to know that Steve stood up there for the world's media to see and made false claims? Do you run a multi-billion dollar company that's investing heavily into advancing technology? Do you have millions of customers to hold you to a certain standard that you yourself created?

Has little to do with the iPhone 4's signal problems. One finger bridging the gap shorts the antenna. That's a design problem. Signal can also be degraded by obstructing the signal path, as seen in the other devices. For Steve to equate the 2 different reasons is a false claim. I don't need to run a multibillion dollar company to be able to smell BS.

So I read and re-read RIM's response, but no where could I find an explanation as to why the bars dropped when the phone was gripped (as depicted in the video clip). Is there really an inherent problem common on all handsets? To me, it's pretty obvious that all phone (to a certain degree) suffer from this problem.
If RIM strongly feels that their experience and knowledge exempts them from this problem, maybe they should explicitly explain why the bars dropped when the phone was gripped as it was.
Shouldn't be difficult, no?

The reason why RIM didn't have to defend its phone losing reception bars is because its very well known that if you cover any phones antenna it will lose reception but most phones will counter it and increase power to the antenna to boost the signal strength to keep a call connected. Plus who the hell holds their new expensive phone in a death grip.

well said, lets face it all phones suffer drop outs, 9 time out of 10 its the network and not the phone itself, but in this case it is clearly the phone thats at fault and telling customers to spend £25 on a case just to use your phone properley is dispicable.

Apple has a great marketing team. How else could they sell overpriced computers, phones, and mp3 players to the masses like they do? But sometimes, on rare occasions like this, the media decides not to listen to their half truths and out right lies, and just report the facts. Poor Steve doesn't know how to react when he finally gets called out. I like seeing him react like a 4th grader and it makes me proud to know that I own nothing with the letter "I" in front of it.

I agree--well said. My Curve 8900 gets great reception, plus at home, the WIFI kicks in to give me even better reception....nice way to say "Sorry Apple, just because your phone design SUCKS, don't try to deflect your incompetence". I have been saying since the Iphone(and now all these similar phones-even some on my beloved Tmobile)--you want a toy, get an Iphone--you want something that helps you do everything, get a was true then, even more true now.

I have an Iphone 4 for FREE if someone wants it , but you have to pay me $ 499.95 for the case because the phone will not receive any reception to send or receive phone calls without it :-)

Anyone interested , please contact me @ stevejobs@oopsididitagain.idiot


Apple makes plenty of mistakes and apple customers get to pay for them. Jobs loves to spin a yarn and turn the mistake into something an apple customer “NEEDS” (perception only of course) and they get away with it. Please do not try to pull someone else into the mess in order to improve your image.

I'm glad the CEO's spoke out on this one. I"ve never had antenna problems with any of my BB's. Unfortunately I feel so many people will fall for apple's deceiving comments about the 9700 :(

Whichever way you look at it or whatever they do Apple is loosing face and credibility. How they check for water damage is silly and pointless( see my previous post)and now they can not be mature enough to hold hands up and say sorry its design flaw. Many Sites Blogs and people within the technology field are all saying the same thing. Its not a software fault its design flaw.

Here are Apples choices:

Hand out Icondoms for free (to try save a little face and will cost Millions).

Admit the design flaw and have a full recall and refund for those who wish it.

Redesign the Antenna and bring out 4s within year and offer free upgrades to all Iphone 4 users.

If it does go to a suit and Rim and the others win it will not look good for Apple.

If they are told to have independent tests which have to be run outside of apples control, they will try and argue the results.

Apple and Steve Jobs want to hide under a rock till this all dies down but its here to stay well until they grow some Iballs(lol)

Wow... When I saw this I just had to try it myself. Shocking really, it made no difference on my Bold 9700 :O I tried holding it like they did in the video, I tried squeezing it with two hands, I tried covering the whole phone except for the signal icon and guess what! No difference!! :O

This phone has been worse then my g/fs iphone 4 with signal. This is my 3rd replacement ,all have been the same. Signal fluxuating between full and no bars. Wish RIM would have checked out this phone before releasing it.

RIM posting such a statement because they are sinking faster than the Titanic. Stock price down almost 6% on Friday. They are reaching for anything to try and keep themselves afloat.

If they had nothing to worry about, they would not have felt the need to say anything.

Lazaridis is an complete idiot and a big reason the company is in the state that it is.

Nice to know. WOW stock price is down almost 6% on friday for RIM freaking amazing.. what else? you wanna add something more? Yeah i thought so.. So a big company as RIM can't defend themselves now? lol

I was a blackberry user for many years, I recently moved to droid, but i have to say I've never had an issue with the signal on any of them. Furthermore, did you see how hard they gripped the phones they tested? Who holds them like that anyway?! you can barely put one finger on the iphone and it drops, they are squeezing the bejesus out of it! I'd worry about the phone splitting in half before I worried about my signal dropping.

Just tried it with the 9000. Experimented 3 different ways. death grip low on the phone, high and in the middle of the phone. Gave each one 1 minute, No bars lost at all!

The other 99.45% probably got disconnected while waiting to get through to the operator

In all due fairness, Steve said that the iPhone was cool, slim and slick. No where did he mention that it was the able to send and receive calls reliably ;)

But, who gets online and argues about phones? I'm curious...did any of you [arguing] have girlfriends/boyfriends in high school? Just wondering if it's that serious...

Even the media at the event didn't buy it. One guy stood up in the Q&A part and said to Jobs he had a 9700 wrapped in his hands right now and it wasn't dropping signal at all! Jobs said it depends on your location. :\

Come'on... the only people that will buy this malarkey are the fanboys.

I give credit to Apple & Jobs. I don't know how they've managed to do it in today's day and age, but they've amassed a huge cult-like following. They could line these fanboys up on a cliff, throw an iphone over, and they'd all follow. It's nuts!!

Apple may have an issue, but how can blackberry claim they don't after the video demonstration of the bold dropping bars by holding the phone in a certain way.

Is blackberry saying apple is lying? Sounds like they are just pissed that Jobs pointed it out!


All phones drop signal a little but Apples are way more severe, For all we know apple may of had a faulty phone or a bad network signal. Am sorry but its impossible to trust apples findings, they could of done anything possible to make the bars drop on the bold. Run independent tests then people may believe the hype more

I was in ATT store and tried to compare my 9700 to iBS. The 9700 kept five bars (-70 dBm) at the same time as both iPhones 4 completely lost their connection with the same "death grip". Steve Jobs probably modified somehow his BB for this show.

Too funny Steve tried to push that our awesome 9700's had the same issue as that beautiful, sleek, piece of trash. I know 2 people with the iPhone 4, and would agree that they are so in love with it (because its the latest thing) that they overlook any and all flaws.

Ah! I found the way to lower the signal on my 9700. I have to hold the phone upside down with the bottom of the phone in the palm of my hand. Never able to go down bars by holding my phone in a normal way, including the "death grip"

Yep, I can reproduce the drop in signal on my BB 9700, but who cares? It is a problem with many if not all cell phones. I do not get dropped calls very often and so it is no big deal. The problem that Apple is facing will only help to better all smart phones. The fan boys here are getting to be as bad as the Apple fan boys they make fun of frequently. RIM with this statement has set themselves up for failure. I love my BB but RIM needs to get on the ball with new innovations or RIM will be gone in the near future. Face it Apple and Android have been continually innovating while RIM has sat on its butt. OS 6 better be a knock out, so far, though good, it looks like a poor imitation of iOS 4. Remember folks, these are all good companies but these are all just smart phones not world changing things.

What can you say, RIM makes good phones for professionals and their statement reflects their professionalism and straight to the point attitude. I WAS looking at a new TILT 2, after this statement, I just changed my wallpaper and my 9700 is like a brand new phone, so NO TILT 2 for me. RIM appears to be like the OLD Motorola, maybe they do not have all the latest super wazoo toys built in, but the phone ALWAYS works! Radio frequency technology has always been kind of a Voodoo ART, which takes a lot of trial and error, I will stick with a company that has 20 years vs. 3 or 4 years of trial and error.

Note to RIM: Great products, but I need a bigger screen, I am getting old, OK?

By holding the Bold 9000 in a certain way (not the exact same 'kung fu' grip on the Iphone 4), i too dropped 2 bars. But the dropped bars weren't enough to make my calls drop.

The Bold 1 - 2 years ago had a serious issue with drop calls on 3G networks in certain countries (i'm sure you veterans remember the 'CALL FAILED' message prompt whenever you drop or make a call). Mine being one of it. And the only way i was able to solve it was to force it to 2G (EDGE) mode. I haven't switched it back to 3G mode yet because if i do, i'm pretty certain i'd be dropping calls too at certain 'blind spots - in between cell towers'. Newer software OS leaks too did help alleviate the dropped call issue.

My take? Pot. Kettle. Black.

I dont know if its me or ATT but the antenna for my phone does lose signal when I grip it the way the video indicates. Its not a death grip but it drops it to about 2 bars and then when i release it goes back to full strength.

Steve Jobs' comparison of the iPhone4's antenna attenuation problem and other smart phones including the BB 9700 is not an accurate comparison. He is comparing apples and oranges. The other devices that he mentioned all have internal antennas in which no matter how much you squeeze or "death grip" the device, there is no way that a human body part can come in intimate contact with the antenna surface(s). The signal loss of the iPhone 4 is due to the human hand physically contacting the antenna. Attenuation losses from other smart phones are strictly due to shielding and after years of design and development, the effects of shielding are negligible at best.

As we all know, the once thought innovative antenna design of the iPhone 4 utilizes the trim around the device as a dual function component. Serving as a cosmetic / decorative trim and as an antenna, everyone thought that this was genius until all the problems. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that when you leave the antenna exposed (which is essentially a metal conductor exposed), that any contact with another electrically conductive material / substrate will have some sort of impact on its performance. If Apple was smart, they would be asking themselves..."How can we use the human hand to actually amplify the radio signal when in contact with the external antenna???" Remember when we used rabbit ears on our TVs? Anytime you touched the rabbit ears, it would affect the picture quality and at times even improve it! Don't us old timers all remember this? Come on aren't that young are you?

The fact that Apple had so drastically changed their antenna design from an internal to an external design suggests to me that they were well aware of antenna problems with their previous models. However, someone at Apple must have said to themselves that we will get rid of the shielding problem by wrapping the phone with an antenna only to create a different attenuation problem due to the intimate contact with a body part.

There is no doubt in my mind that AT&T has their own bag of issues with their network which they have admitted to and are addressing. It is no secret that previous iPhone models have had numerous reception issues. However, this whole thing really makes me wonder who was really more at fault for dropped calls on previous iPhone models??? AT&T or Apple???

Steve Jobs and Apple have totally missed the boat on this one. Any good engineer knows that there can never be a perfect design. A good engineer always realizes that when designing something, that there is always compromise compromise compromise!

I owned an 8100 and a 8900 and never experienced any significant or noticeable loss of signal. I currently own a 9700, a 9530, and a 9550 on both T-Mobile and Verizon and have yet to duplicate any signal loss on any of these devices through shielding with my hand.

One of Apple's claim to fame is to offer products that are thin, light, and small. It seems that they have finally discovered that there are limitations in making compact devices and that "the laws of physics" have finally caught up with them.

Steve Jobs' failed attempt to make his product look better by trying to make others look bad is absolutely nauseating!!! It was immature and unprofessional. Then to blame it on the laws of physics was just laughable. Yes we are all aware of the laws of physics. The objective is to understand the laws of physics and design products that work with these laws. It just goes to show you how out of touch they are and how stupid they think people are.

I love my BlackBerries and it seems that many have put RIM down as the underdog lately. Well Apple, remember the day when you were the underdog too??? Lets not forget the days and years when you were the underdog. Apple is nothing more than another Microsoft!

Way to go RIM!!! Now that Apple has posted the 9700 on their website, please sue them! I am hoping that HTC and Samsung address this with official press releases and law suits as well.

It sure will be interesting to see what Apple's next antenna design will be on their next generation iPhone.

Glad to see you guys stand up for yourselves.....after owning a blackberry, to me there is no other in the business world. Come on release the 9800 already.....that will put the iphone 4 to shame even more.....for sure!!!!!!

I honestly think that all of this "rah rah way to go RIM" talk is just as bad as Apple. I mean the fact that you can degrade reception on a mobile phone by holding it a certain way is not exactly news. I can absolutely make my Bold 9000 drop from 5 to 2 bars by holding it in the so-called "death grip", and that's with a silicone case on. I don't really care because that's not how I hold my phone. Now, I can't imagine giving up my BB for any other phone because of all the BB features that are missing in others but I really don't know what to make of this RIM statement. I mean are they saying that their phones aren't susceptible to this because if they are that's simply not true. Are they suggesting that Apple faked the video showing the reception drop on the 9700? I think that the videos Apple showed were unnecessary but I can certainly understand why they did it as I think this whole thing has been way overblown by the press. My wife has an iPhone 4 (no case) and hasn't had any problem with this issue... in fact she has commented that she's able to get a signal in a couple of areas where she wasn't able to in the past so I do believe that their new antenna design does provide better reception. I guess I just get tired of all the fanboy-ism by people on all sides. It's just a phone for God sakes... right now I think that RIM makes the best ones out there so that's what I use... if someone else comes out with one that I think is better for me... be it Android, Windows, or yes, even Apple, then I'll switch to that one. Just my $.02.


I subscribed just to make a quick point. I realize I'll get slammed as an Apple fanboy but it seems everyone here is really excited about this statement.

Perhaps you should take a moment to re-read and consider that, in those 150 or so words they never bothered to say:

"No, the Bold 9700 does not lose signal when held in certain ways. Apple is lying."

It occurs to me that it should have been the very first, if not the only, response they made.

Why is it that Apple put RIM in this position? Apple is the one on the offensive here not RIM. RIM is only trying to defend their product and if you were the CEO of a company you would do the same. During this whole "antennagate" issue, I have not heard any negative statements or press releases coming from RIM until Apple's attempt to drag them in. RIM has stayed neutral up to this point.

Apple is taking crap from all sides. If it's true that many other smartphones have similar issues...and it sure seems to be from the videos from Apple and on YouTube...why on Earth would they *not* mention it?

I think it's fine that RIM is trying to defend itself. I'll say it again. The most effective defense would have been:

"Nope. Apple is lying. That doesn't happen with the Bold 9700 no matter how you hold it."

As it is, they've just drawn attention to the fact that it must do *exactly* what Apple says it does or else they would have categorically denied it.

If Apple is taking crap from all sides, that is their own deal. Why should RIM have to defend themselves in the first place??? They don't have significant signal loss issues. Apple does!

And lets not forget that this problem has been inherent to some degree on all of Apple's iPhones is some way or another so they need to figure out their own problems.

First off they don't need to as its reception has never been called into question by anybody and secondly by no means has apple proved that its a genuine problem that occurs in bb's especially when questioned on it by a 9700 user and the best answer he's got is it depends where you are. My guess is it has to be in front of a camera and not live.

They shouldn't even have to....

Why all of a sudden is RIM's antenna performance called into question? Give me a break.

I'm a long time BlackBerry user and am now using the 9700 on US carrier, T-Mobile. By holding it in exactly the same manner as what is required on the iPhone4 to drop bars, I drop to a single bar, then ultimately to WiFi calls (UMA) (I notice that to do this reliably, I have to hold the phone with my left hand and cover the left convenience key with my thumb). When I let go, the signal roars back to normal strength.

It's a bit odd how emotional people are getting in their comments here. First of all, Jobs specifically said that in order to *truly* test your signal strength you should be in the proper environment, so just because you weren't able to replicate the signal drop, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Do any of you realize what kind of a shitstorm Apple would be inviting by intentionally deceiving the public in this manner, on video, in a PRESS conference of all places?

Personally, I don't see how gripping a radio device over the antenna and seeing a signal drop is a controversial issue. Additionally, some BB users are also being stupid here by saying iPhone "fanboys" will buy anything by Apple ("even if it were made of lemur droppings"). That's really the pot calling the kettle black. They release a Tour with a trackpad, change the name to "Bold," and RIM fanboys start dancing in the street like they just released a Jesus dropping. Get a grip, people. It smacks of jealousy to me. RIM phones are unmatched as communication tools but they simply fall short as media devices. The iPhone4 is possibly the greatest portable media device ever mass produced but it can't do communication like any BlackBerry. Every manufacturer is trying to find a device that can do both. They all fail. The first one to do it will win. End of story.

Hold the 9700 with the proper hand positioning and it will lose signal. It's a radio device. The human body does this. The controversy is what? If you have access to a car with an external metal antenna, drive to an area where you hear some static (having a weak signal is a prerequisite to experience an effect). Park, turn up the radio and grip the antenna. You'll hear the static go up. This is a signal drop. Jesus Christ people, some of you are acting like Steve Jobs said to go fuck your mothers. Calm down. It is physics. If RIM sells 1M of any new device per week for three weeks, I guarantee the sky will rain down blood and body parts with complaints. Anyone remember the Storm fiasco? New devices have problems. Get over it people.

Please just watch the video at and you will see that Jobs actually told the press that Blackberry Storm is a great phone and there is nothing wrong with it. Just when you are in a low signal area and you shield the antenna with your hands the signal strength will drop. This is a fact.

If RIM is trying to claim something else it is not very open. At least Apple has the courage to tell what is going on. Mobile phones are not perfect. Humans are made of water and water will shield the antenna.

RIM should show a little more respect for their customers and admit that the problem exists and that they do not know how to fix it.

I own a 9530 and a 9550 and have never had any problems with reception or signal loss.

The problem with the iPhone 4 antenna is that it is an external antenna and signal degrades with contact in a specific area. Apple has pretty much overcome the problem of shielding with their external design, however the problem is now with contacting it. Shielding has nothing to do with their problem. Water also has nothing to do with it other that increasing electrical conductivity between the hand and the antenna by means of sweating. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.

We are talking about iPhone decision to bring RIM and other companies to there messed. Please enlighten me why RIM should show a little respect and admit there problems? Aren't we talking about Apple here? Courage? GTFO as big as company Apple is why can't they admit there own problems? Why bring the other carriers like RIM to there messed? If you call that courage then somethings wrong with you.

I don't really understand what you mean by "there messed", but Apple has not messed anything. The iPhone 4 has the highest customer satisfaction rate of any mobile phone.

"They do not bring other carries like RIM to there messed". First RIM is not carrier and neither is Apple. You talk about "there messed" again. Could you please explain that term.

It takes courage to admit your problems and Apple has that courage. RIM does not. Is that hard to understand? Or are you saying that RIM has no problems. All of their phones are perfect.

I think its pretty easy to work out he pressed the d instead of s. Nobody here has ever claimed BlackBerry as being absolutely perfect but if there was such a issue it would of shown up very quickly especially here as every 9700 user would be petitioning RIM to fix it. If you think owning up to a issue by saying people are holding the phone wrong and then rubbishing competitors phones to try and divert some of the controversy away from a poorly designed antenna on a ip4 then you need serious help.

Sorry for the mistake my keyboard is kinda acting up and yeah RIM is not a carrier my bad I mean other phone companies. I never said RIM has no problems, all I'm saying is what courage? coming out and bringing other companies like RIM to there problems? (Antenna Issues) and you call that courage?

Is that I've been on ATT and its predecessors (Cingular, BellSouth Mobility) since I bought my first cell phone in the early '90s and have owned a lot of phones from a lot of manufacturers during that time, the last several of them Blackberries -- including my current Bold 9700.

Through it all, I have never had a problem with ATT and I've never owned a phone where I had to worry about how I held it. I've never even heard the topic raised until it came up with the iPhone4. So I think if this were a common problem with all phones, it would have come up before now. The bottom line is that Apple, which normally makes good stuff, screwed up this time and then made matters worse by not handling it very well from a pr standpoint. They want to brush it all off as being "blown out of proportion," which is rich since they have a history of blowing things out of proportion when it comes to competitors. Their highly successful "Mac vs. PC" ad campaign, for example. They were well done and humorous ads -- I chuckled at them like everyone -- but they were based largely on half truths, problems blown out of proportions, and out-and-out lies in some cases.

Now the chickens have come home to roost and Jobs doesn't like being on the receiving end. Too bad. It won't hurt their sales -- there are enough fanatics who will buy the iPhone no matter what -- but it's still gratifying to see them take some heat this time. And it was equally gratifying to see RIM reply promptly and strongly.

you know what the problem that Steve Jobs have is that they cannot afford to lose customers over iphone 4 problems. I heard Apple's stock have slipped a bit. He should come clean as he knows there is design flaws on this iphone 4 but he won't admit to anything because he knows if he does admit , it will prove a huge embarrassment to his company.

He is wrong to attack nokia, samsung and blackberry without any facts. he should know that no smartphone is perfect at all about dropped calls. as of right now, I rather keeping hands off about apple. if you are happy with apple, or blackberry or any smartphones then stick with it.

naming the site "crackberry" legitimizes some of the dumb comments, poor grammar, duplicate posts and just plain worthless rants that seems to be typical to a company's supporters on a sinking ship.

if your 9700 works, that's fine. if you think that is cutting edge, then think again. how long do you think keyboards will outlast touch screens? and that;s the tip of the iceberg.

apple will solve the reception problem and that's a fact. whether blackberry will be able to catch up with their technology is a tough question to answer. right now and for the last couple of years, the stock market says 'no' but we'll see.

At least our preferred mobile manufacturer doesn't require mass marketing to promote products that are lacking features that other phone makers already have or require a media conference to try and prove there isn't a problem with the basic function of the phone to be a phone.

I'd also like to know when RIM started becoming a sinking ship or is it just your thinking that since the iphone has cornered the market every other current smart phone manufacturer will die off. You might want to look up the term "tall poppy syndrome", and apple is starting to show all the signs of it.

Yes I think everyone appreciates Apple's accomplishments and innovation. Some of their products are truly innovative. I don't think that anyone is denying that.

However, if they want to keep beating their chest then they should do it on their own dime. It's easy to kick someone while they are down and that's what they are trying to do to get out of their own mess. I have a 9700 and I have yet to duplicate a signal loss problem. I have T-Mobile and I have tried this in areas of weak reception as well.

they should add.....

'....except of course you have the good old classic Storm 9500 on the latest official firmware, we don't really give a rats ass about your dropped calls in areas of low coverage, or the calls when the caller can hear you but you can't hear a damn word they say. We also don't really care that you are stuck in a contract with a phone that doesn't work, so just suck it up.'

Yes, I am a little bitter.

Wow so they can comment on this but I can't find out when 6.0 is coming actual date nor can I see it on a device other than a touch screen..or will it be on any device the didnt come out in 2009....

Please RIM....PS that one on over.

Research in Slow Motion

I have to say that my bold 9000 was the best phone I've owned as far as reliability and it was damn sexy too. I have the iphone 4 now and as awesome a phone, it's a pain in the ass. Not for a person who depends on their phone for business. I will be back with blackberry when the best of both worlds meld into one pile of happiness. lol

the whole story and what Apple actually said, I'm glad RIM stepped up to defend themselves. That's pretty low class for Jobs to try and draw in other cell phone companies into their problem. I will never buy an iphone now.

For everyone having a tough time understanding this, here's an example maybe you can comprehend better.

Remember the Firestone tire thing some years back? Granted, that was a safety issue. But imagine if instead of doing a recall or admitting it was a problem, they held a press conference where the company president showed other tire brands blowing out. "See??" he says, "all tires can blow out sometimes!"

Does this mean that there wasn't an actual problem? Of course not. Sure, all tires can explode given the right circumstances. They're pressurized balloons under a lot of weight. But that doesn't excuse or clear up the real issue at hand.

All cellphones have internal antennas. Covering it up, especially in a poor reception area, will degrade the signal. I don't think anyone would really dispute this. But there's a huge difference between surrounding your 9700- resulting in losing a signal bar or two- and casually holding an iP4 in your left hand and dropping calls. Signal degradation does NOT equal fatal antenna loading.

I think Steve handled this badly. He's in a difficult position, but trying to pin a target on everyone else to take heat off Apple was a really poor move. It starts a needless war, gives bad PR, and frankly his claims are being refuted by the masses, so to speak. I'm not sure how his reality distortion field can save his stock points now.

For a "mobile" device to function properly it needs to be able to send and receive. Sorry Apple...the antenna is a necessary evil. The antenna is probably one of the most important components in the device.

Its like driving a Ferrari on bald, cheap tires. All the benefits of horsepower and performance does no good unless you can transfer that power to the pavement. Ah yes....the rubber hitting the road. Can everyone hear the tires squeal? Squeal like a pig!!!

Every person i know who has an iphone, loves their phone. Sadly they cant ever seem to hold a full conversation with me when i talk to them because AT&T coverage sucks around here.. and usually i see them with their phones ALOT... shame alot of those times their plugged into the nearest wall socket or pc charging after a moderate time of usage..

Meanwhile me and my Tour go a couple days without a charge, holds a signal well, and usually quite clear when i have a phone call.

so my first hand experience.. AT&T sucks, so i wouldnt own an iphone.. second even if they made a CDMA version of the iphone.. i'd still take my tired old blackberry.. for the reliability aspect and call qualities alone.


Okay. I'm a Mac user and a BlackBerry user (Yes, they go nicely together) so I'm a bit torn in this issue. I personally believe there are multiple issues:

1. People blaming Steve Jobs. They act as if he personally hand crafted every iPhone. Steve Jobs is not to blame for this and the entire death grip is overexagerated.

2. Apple mentioning RIM. Apple wasn't trying to start some war with RIM when it mentioned the Bold 9700 having some signal problems but they really should have avoided mentioning other phones to cover up their mistake.

3. RIM denying the Bold 9700 issue. The Bold 9700 does have Death Grip issues. It's small compared to the iPhone 4 issues, but it shouldn't have been completely denied by RIM. They would have been better off avoiding a war with Apple.

But people dissing Apple and calling the iPhone a useless toy? Way to be immature. Apple is a powerful company and the Death Grip isn't nearly as bad of an issue as other companies had to face. (i.e. Palm failing to sell phones, Microsoft releasing Windows Vista, etc.)

I'm a BlackBerry user too guys so don't be a child and call me some "Apple Fanboy." The Death Grip will be fixed and the beef with RIM will die down.

1. Steve Jobs represents Apple and is the CEO is he not? So naturally he does hold responsibility for the company that he runs does he not?

2. I still can't duplicate signal problems on my 9700.

3. The term "death grip" came about with the iPhone 4. It is a different failure mode as compared to other devices. The iPhone 4 is due to electrical contact with a human body part or other materials that are electrically conductive. Any issue with other smart phone devices are strictly due to shielding hence the difference in significant loss vs. negligible loss. So what is it that RIM needs to deny? I am seriously confused.

I'm sorry if I was unclear.

1. Yes, Steve Jobs is the CEO. And he does hold responsibility for his company. But people are overestimating what he can do. He is trying to do what is best for his company. I agree that he shouldn't have brought up other Smartphones in his conference, but I think people are being a bit hard on him.

2. If you check the poll that was posted last week you'll see that some people do have signal issues on their 9700. You mentioned that you do not have this problem so you should consider yourself lucky. Not every BlackBerry Bold has this issue. Only some people do. And the same goes for the iPhone. Many people don't have any issues at all with their iPhone acting up.

3. I'm using the term "Death Grip" loosely. As I said before, some people do have problems with their Bold 9700's losing signal bars when they hold it a certain way. In the response posted by RIM they seem to deny any issues at all. I found that pretty misleading.

What I'm basically trying to say is that the death grip isn't as big of an issue as people are saying it is. Some people have it, and some people don't. Apple can make it through this issue the same as RIM made it through the countless problems with the original BlackBerry Storm.

Steve Jobs can be an ass. I was never a fan of Apple anything. wife and kids have Ipods but every computer we own (7) is a PC. do we have issues from time to time? sure so what. It seems now that even when Apple has an issue it's not "really" an issue. MAN UP STEVE

Another thing to mention is that after showing the video of the BB he says something along the lines of "that's a normal way you would hold this type of phone." I don't think anybody using a BB holds their phone like that. I either have it in my right hand, or in both hands while I'm typing. In either case, I'm only holding the phone with my fingers, my palm isn't touching the phone in any way and there's no way (for me at least) to comfortable hold and use the phone with my palms touching it anywhere. It just isn't a natural way to hold it. The reason people hold it like that for an iPhone is because they need to hold the phone with one hand, and use a finger on their other hand to interact with it. On BlackBerry you can use the phone with one hand.

Now that Jobs, and Apple, have attempted to shift blame for an inferior product on to their component producers, what will they do next? I've seen a few business, Enron, World Comm, etc., use excuses to explain their debacles. I've never seen a grown man TOSS "statistics" around so overtly. He's trying to cover his, ummm yeah, with numbers in a losing effort. I like technology like any other person, but if there's one thing I don't like is a grown man not standing on his own two feet and accepting full responsibility for his actions.

Jobs grow up, stand up, and accept the fact that you have sold an inferior product. You'll keep, and possibly regain some of your lost credibility.

unfortunately my 9700 does the same thing, as well a G1 i have. they only do this when im in a low reception area, so im afraid to say that what Steve showed is correct info and i think RIM should admit to it instead of bashing Apple and Steve. i do not own an iPhone but i think everyone should know this.

Your issue is only occurring in low reception areas that means nothing to do with bb because you also a have a g1 with the same issue. Iphone4 antenna is on the outside of the phone so that means every time its touched reception is affected no matter has strong your signal is and that's a design flaw they built themselves and then tried blaming their users first and then tried dragging other companies down with them.

Steve was out of line dragging in the competition to his iphone problems but that phone is shitting on any bb and u fanboys know it. BB is outdated. Apps suck right up there with the 1980 software. How many of u clowns slept outside or waited in line for a bb??? How many bb has sold out in one day??? Even the droid phones are better. If u clowns wasn't stuck in contracts or broke u idiots would have an iphone

If the only thing you can come up with is to dis software you don't even use maybe you should of stayed on your iphone forum. Just because it doesn't have thousands of useless apps doesn't make any phone outdated. Iphone apps are catered towards people who think having the lastest buzz item makes them cooler BB's have a entirely different user base

No matter how at fault Apple's actions were, are and will be, you will always have their loyal, faithful matter if the phone or any Apple product was covered in dung, horse crap, human crap...crap from the Toxic Avenger himself, you all would be in your glory just because it says Apple on it....It is hysterical to see people actually stick up for this nonsense, when Apple is clearly in the wrong for dragging other manufactures in this....shame on you Apple and faithful/cult like followers... you get everything you deserve!

Also what is wrong with you people saying this will path a way for all cell phone antennas to be better in the future? I don't have dropped calls or lose signal...if I had, it would be more carrier specific anyway, lol!

RIM is making a point here: they avoid designs like the Iphone exposed antenna. One of the reason would be the radiation the user would be exposed to, that is something that nobody is talking about. Remember: the hand would absorb most (if not all) and the phone would lose reception (thus transmitting more in order to compensate for the interference)

I'm all for a fare full two sided argument but people here are turning it into a s**t fight between bb and iphone users when this whole post I about apple taking responsibility for a badly designed antenna and dragging competitors into it without cause and RIM issuing a press release saying their not taking it lying down. So I'm wondering could a mod check these posts and delete out users that have only just signed up just to a s**t fight and remove their posts as I doubt they will ever be heard from again anyway.

I too was appalled when Apple tried to say "everybody's phone does that". What! I tried to duplicate the connection issues on my Bold 9700 and suprise suprise..couldn't make it happen. That is because Apple made a mistake plain and simple. Furthermore, they won't even own up to it. Maybe now everyone will see Apple for what it is...overpriced and overhyped. They have just created a culture through advertising of drones who think everything Apple must be better. I have never fallen for it and this is just proves that Apple is not untouchable.

What I dont understand is why do people that have iPhones continue to come on this website and leave comments. THIS SITE IS MEANT FOR BLACKBERRY USERS ONLY!!!!!!! Go take your crap iPhone and play games on it because thats the only thing its good for. BlackBerry is the best smartphone and will always be the best smartphone. Anyone that even buys a iPhone has a very low IQ because it is garbage and will always be garbage!!

Not having the Iphone has got nothing to do with not being able to afford it. I was looking at one but I did not like the feel of it plus I wanted true push email. I am really happy and content being and owner of a 8900 Curve and now the Storm2(9520)Which I am loving and consider it my best phone yet and I'm staying with Blackberry. Feel free to buy me an Iphone to convert me but I'll just stick it in the trash. I do have an old 2nd hand Ipod but when it dies or sooner I may just get myself a Zune.

So trolls get over it Its my money my choice but dont you or apple play dirty tricks because we will just stand up for what we believe and the truth.

Good for them. Stupid that Apple decided to try and pull everyone else in with their design mistake (note that I'm not even saying the external antenna is a mistake...the failure to realize that one of them should be coated during production to prevent users from bridging the gap is a giant mistake though).

I am ecstatic the folks over at RIM decided to not let this go unnoticed or not responded to.
Apple was surely trying to drag RIM into their mismanagement by saying; "Hey! They messed up too!".

Well done to RIM for giving as good as they get back at Apple...what a shoddy half assed business Apple is bringing other phone manufacturers into this and saying all other phones suffer this problem...instead of trying to fix the problem they want to deflect it...bunch of jackasses and the biggest one is Steve Jobs.

Ive tried without any success to get get my 9700 to drop signal with the death grip but nope, nada zilch and thats even in a poor signal area.

One thing id like to point out as in another forum i inhabit...where i have been flamed to death is that i have searched high and low to see if there were any complaints about the 9700 dropping signal but couldnt find anything of note.

At least Apple are giving away free cases/bumpers etc to help alleviate the issue but still thats bad business from would have been better for them to acknowledge the issue at the start and say to people that if its really causing you grief then we will replace it...that way the customers are happy and apple are happy but nope they just rather hand out free cases to get rid of the issue....pathetic in all honesty.

I have bb and an iphone. The only reason I carry this trash is for work. The iphone is more than a game phone. When bb update its software and get some real apps maybe we can talk. Apps that make ur phone fart or talk like a gangsta is a joke. Lol. U clowns sit
around with ur sega genesis while I'm sitting around with my xbox360

Hey straightwestcoast how about you STFU stupid @SS pimply faced wannabe wankster! Don't be talking like you even have a Job you ghetto piece of $hit. Move out of your mama's house and get a life, maybe an education too since you can't use proper grammar. You should change your screen name from straightwestcoast to StraightStupid