Is Nokia really outselling BlackBerry, and what does it all mean?

By Chris Umiastowski on 18 Jul 2013 03:56 pm EDT

This morning Nokia reported its financial results for the June quarter.  Overall, Nokia is hanging in there.  The company is seeing much stronger results from its ownership in Nokia Siemens Networks, while the business of making phones has not yet returned to profitability.

As far as Lumia goes, Nokia managed to sell 7.4 million of these Windows-based smartphones compared to 5.6 million last quarter.  Naturally, with BlackBerry having shipped only 6.8 million phones last quarter (a number that has been in decline), the media jumped all over this to declare Nokia the victor as the #3 player in smartphones.

I think the comparison of 7.4 million Lumias to 6.8 million BlackBerrys is pretty much useless.  Why?  Well, this is the 7th quarter of Lumia shipments while it’s barely the 2nd quarter of BlackBerry 10 shipments.  And obviously the Q10 has had nearly no effect on BlackBerry’s latest numbers because of the timing of its launch relative to quarter end.  In addition, the Q5  hadn’t even shipped by the time the quarter ended.  So we really need to see what the next couple of quarters bring.  Yes, Nokia is far ahead of BlackBerry, but both Lumia and BlackBerry 10 device volumes are growing.

But more important, we should not be thinking about legacy BBOS phones as part of the modern day smartphone battle.  The latest BB7 OS may still be selling well in emerging markets, but it represents the past, not the future.  Legacy BlackBerry users will either migrate to BlackBerry 10, or they’ll leave the platform in favor of something else. 

It’s worth pointing out that in Lumia’s second quarter on the market, they shipped only 2 million phones versus BlackBerry 10 volume of 2.7 million in the second quarter.  Lumia volume grew to 4 million in the third quarter of shipments, and I suspect given the launch of the Q10 and Q5 in the BlackBerry August quarter, we’ll see much stronger performance than this from the Waterloo company when they report their next results.

Depending on how you look at the fight between Nokia and BlackBerry, you can therefore argue that BlackBerry is winning because it’s accelerating BB10 phone sales faster than Nokia, or you can argue that timing is irrelevant, and Nokia is ahead in absolute numbers.  So this battle for third place is quite interesting. 

It’s also interesting to reflect on the fact that Nokia had to sell Lumia phones to an audience that was not already using Windows Phone, while BlackBerry has a huge built-in customer base having peaked its subscriber base at about 80 million.  So one should expect BlackBerry to experience a stronger acceleration, just as appears to be happening.  Yet for Nokia to have delivered 32% sequential growth in Lumia volume is nothing to dismiss.

Nokia and BlackBerry are fairly similar companies in a lot of ways.  Nokia has 4.1 billion EUR of net cash, while BlackBerry has $3.1 billion.  Smartphone volumes are similar, and I’d guess that Nokia’s device margin of 24.4% is close to BlackBerry’s.  Remember that BlackBerry recently had 36% gross margin, but this includes a fairly large chunk of high-margin service revenue. On the bottom line, as I said, both companies are pretty close to break even.

Let them both keep moving.  Let the race continue, and let the players fight hard.  In the end it’s all makes our consumer experience better.

Topics: BBRY Nokia Editorial

Reader comments

Is Nokia really outselling BlackBerry, and what does it all mean?



Nokia is doing much better than BB. In addition, they have many other options if WP fails (which is not happening now)... Adopting Android & reinventing Meego are the most important ones. Furthermore, Nokia is selling hundred millions of featured phones every year. Also, we must never forget the profit from Nokia Siemens Venture.

So, Nokia's revenue is not coming from selling smartphones only, which is started to grow now.
ON the other hand, BB has exhausted all possible solutions to come back again. IF BB10 would not make a big come back in the next three quarters, Blackberry will die soon ... That's really sad, but what I really think .

No,BES10.1 and on is a huge potential cash flow machine that is the real crucial part of BlackBerry's strategy, that they MUST get right. If they do then begin a process of gaining meaningful adoption in an important target market and start establishing a positive news flow to follow =momentum. This whole new platform is getting started and they need a win to establish themselves and stop the whole death spiral story crap.

From my sweet BB10 Neutrino powered Z10 :D

Nah, the real play is the mobile computing solution... this look such further out than anyone seems to be thinking.

Imagine, no more PC... just your handheld and a wireless 'workstation'.. that's the future they envision........

#GetWithBB10 Channel @ C000D7228

Their vision of a mobile computing solution is likely going to go down the drain if you fail miserably in the wireless handsets ventures. Even Windows 8 and the tablets running on it are having a tough fight against consumers.

Seriously? Touch screens for towers in any setting outside of production is the broken bit. Also anyone running 7 PRO or ULT has absolutely no reason to adopt Windows 8 at all. Those that did grab a discounted 8 dropped in a shell replacement immediately to get back their desktop and start menu. The lesson for Microsoft in all this is their having to actually talk to and listen to their own consumer base.

As for Windows 8 tablets, I use an Asus Vivotab Smart to work on my PLC code in the hot tub and I have another which spends most of its time running Wireshark. The kids got my iPad and my BlackBerry Playbook is storage and player for my digital music collection. Had Microsoft NOT screwed about with the RT garbage and merely made their Surface tab a $600 Windows 8 64gb device(with keyboard), I'd have picked up a pair of them day one and they'd be well ahead of the game. Windows 8 across multiple personal devices is nice to sync and use but it should be BRILLIANT!!! The suits at Microsoft really need to quit stroking their egos and start reading the tech forums. What they did wrong and how to fix the damage is all there in black and white.

Unfortunately that is a very distant future. They can't say that they are focusing on the future without first getting things in order in the present.

@ Hassan00 I think we are forgetting about a little thing called QNX Neutrino that is widely used as the basis for automotive electromechanical components, for industrial control systems, medical instruments, defense systems, nuclear power plants, and other mission-critical applications.

BB is nowhere near done, they could really sell off hardware and become a SAS company especially in enterprise and secure communications.

agreed, because i can see the future. and in the future BlackBerry is leading the mobile industry. im sorry but its the truth..

Posted via CB10

I would agree with that if they were still legacy OS 7.1, but now i believe that Software is one of the strongest link, what they are lacking is support, support from carriers and support from developers, and maybe lacking the cash to make all that happen.

I'd say the are weaker in hardware and specs, than in software right now.

If BlackBerry can't find another manufacturer to licence BB10 - even for free - that's what'll likely happen. I predict by this time next year BlackBerry handhelds will be a thing of the past.

I predict BlackBerry will be out of business in another year. Thorsten seems to have forgotten his speech about BlackBerry being laser focused after he took the helm of Research In Motion. Thorsten is killing BlackBerry and the loyalty of those who've stood by the company. Dumb azz.

Posted via CB10 from the BlackBerry Z10

I think the Lumia 1020 will hit hard! Hopefully it will be overpriced.
On the other hand, I bought a Z10 today and a Q10 for my gf yesterday. On both days I saw somebody else pick up a Q10. This might be coincidence, but I definitely felt like I was joining the 'in club'. The physical keyboard attracts many people.

$300 on contract at AT&T is what I heard. Overpriced, maybe not by "pound for pound" standards, but by "what people are willing to pay" standards.

Well the Lumia is packing a 2Gb ram and other similar specs to the Z10. Other than its 41 megapixel camera (megapixels don't mean anything in terms of camera quality) the two are spec'd even. Is $200-$250 more for a Lumia worth it?

Posted via CB10

until you have tested the pureview's oversampling technology from 41MP, your assumption is quite inaccurate. I ve used it in 808, this thing is not a marketing gimmick nonsense but a real killer practical feature. it takes better picture than my old dslr and my point and shoot camera.

Posted via CB10

OK...but is it worth $300 on contract? $100-$250 more for a single solitary, what some would call gimmicky feature?

BB business user, Android personal user, and I'm getting the Lumia 1020. $300 is well worth, especially when the iPhone 32GB and Note II are $300.

41m IS marketing gimmick for sure. IT may produce better picture than regular phone, but geese, 41 M? Really? Answer is NO. Other wise Japanese and Korean and German camera industry are dead. Of course they say it's real tech. Use your brain to think not your ears


MP means nothing when it comes to photos. What's most important is the size of the sensor and the glass. Given the tiny lens and sensor on that Nokia, I highly doubt it can take better pictures than any DSLR past or present. For example, compare the 41 MP to the Canon EOS-1D (4 MP, released in 2001) or the EOS-1Ds (11 MP, released in 2002). Both those cameras would destroy the Nokia in terms of photo quality.
Modern DSLRs don't have 40+ MP. It was purely a marketing gimmick during the MP wars. Canon and Nikon flagship cameras only have ~ 25 MP and that's using a full size sensor. The sensors in mobile phones are minuscule compared to those of DSLRs.

Let me know when those cameras can make phone calls or battery last two days with strong usage. Stop comparing apple to oranges as Nokia is not competing against cameras but to smartphones.

Posted via CB10

The person stated that the Nokia pics would outperform that of earlier DSLRs. I was refuting that claim since the MP does not mean a better image. A better image is based on the sensor and glass. A tiny camera like that on the Nokia cannot and will not outperform that of a DSLR. The amount of light captured by a DSLR's sensor and lens is enormous compared to that of a camera on a mobile phone.
Those DSLRs will easily last two days with strong usage. My current 7D will easily last 3-4 days shooting over 800 RAW photos. DSLR is a camera, not a phone, so you asking me to tell you when it can make a phone call is a ridiculous statement. Now, tell me when then the Nokia can even last 5 hours of strong camera usage. It wouldn't even last 2 hours of continuous usage like that of a DLSR during a wedding or a sporting event.

ha ha ha.. better than dslr.. ha ha ha.. let me guess, you kept it on auto setting and bought the cheapest kit lens you could find. FIRST generation dslrs will continue to out-perform smartphone cameras for years to come. ha ha ha. thanks for the laugh.

Something else you have to factor into the equation: Windows Phone is well on its way to solving its App situation. There are several third party apps out for Instagram, Snapchat, Pandora (Pandora has an official app with 1 year free premium subscription), etc.
BlackBerry MUST MUST MUST get the major apps to come out on BB10. They are positively SUNK without it. As is, there just aren't many compelling apps.

First and foremost, where are you getting "hundreds of millions of featured phones every year"? Maybe you're including the low-end cellphones they sell, which I would argue cannot be compared to BB10 and are substantially hurting their margins. These phones represented 88% of all phone sales in the quarter for Nokia and were definitely a big factor in the 18% drop in the average selling price of Nokia phones in Q2. However, if by featured phones you mean the lumina then I think you're a bit off with "hundreds of millions". If I do the math, using the 32% growth seen in Q2 for the next three quarters (which is rather bullish) I get sales of 9.8M, 12.9M and 17.0M for a trailing twelve month total of 47.1M. A great number, but nowhere near hundreds of millions.

I also agree with others in that BlackBerry's service revenue through MDM and other enterprise services is just beginning to ramp up. Also, your service revenue argument doesn't hold much weight considering more or less bought service revenue streams from Siemens. BlackBerry has built their service revenue from the ground up and it currently in the middle of their largest restructuring of how service revenues are generated in company history. MDM as a business is in its infancy and given their security reputation, they should do well in this space.

Posted via CB10

Plain phones are a shrinking segment. Pretty much everything is either a feature phone or a smartphone.

From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10

Actually that would never happen Microsoft owns to many shares in nokia to let them move to another Os.

Sent via my Z10 support your local paramedics run with scissors.

Plus they also have a 5-year agreement of which they're only in year 2. Nokia would lose $250 million in support payments per quarter from MS. Not gonna happen

Of course it does... if not, how would we ever progress? Passion may be a motivator, but nothing lights a fire under your *** like some good'ol competition. And who would compete louder than blackberry loyalists right now?

FYI... is iPhone still even in the conversation? I mean really... kids get sick of toys eventually.

Posted via CB10 in BB10 on Z10...

Nokia's Lumia 520 series is doing extremely well in the low end/prepaid/emerging markets. BlackBerry has no BB10 device to counter with and no plans to do so. Therefore those trends won't change anytime soon. Until Nokia abandons the entry level market like BlackBerry has done with BB10, BlackBerry will be looking up to Nokia from the bottom rungs of the ladder for the foreseeable future.

Yes, everything IS. It's the OS wars of the 80s all over again. The only difference now is we have the Internet and services play a big role in which "camp" you decide to pitch a tent into

Interesting comparison between these companies... makes for an interesting quarters to come

sexy as hell Z10 via CB10

Not in my opinion. To compare lumia series with BlackBerry OS10 series is not the right comparison. Lumia series already have 15 types of devices, with full prices ranging from +- $120 to $700ish. BlackBerry OS10 barely have 3 types of devices, ranging +- $600 to $700ish in full price. I say from the latest sales report, BlackBerry is in better stand than Nokia.

Posted via CB10

Also it's not right to compare the first quarters in history for each line. Today's numbers are all that matters. BlackBerry has been bumped by Nokia. End of story.

I agree with you if your someone who likes to only look at the short term but long term pictures give you a better idea of who will win which is what matters and then comparing these kinds of things is very important.

Posted via CB10

I agree with you. Today's number all that matters. 7.4 millions from 15 types of lumia vs 6.8 millions of only 2 types BlackBerry OS10? Clearly BlackBerry wins.

Posted via CB10

Actually it's 7.4M Lumias vs 2.7M BB10. The 6.8M shipped by BB were 60% legacy devices.

So, yes, clearly BlackBerry wins. LOL

Hmm..then it's 7.4mil from 15 lumia types vs 2.4 mil of two OS10 types.. I still say BlackBerry wins lol. Only from two types compared with 15 types including feature phones . It's a win :p

Posted via CB10

Its not 6.8 millions of only 2 types of BB OS 10 devices.

Its only 2.7 million. Remaining are from OS7 which does not contribute to app downloads means even less apps for future.

Competition creates new improved versions of phones... Looking forward in seeing what BlackBerry has in store for the future!

Proudly posted via my Z10

Same. I'm also looking forward to seeing what the next iPhone will be capable of. In the end the consumer wins because we get better devices to chose from.

Yes competition is good cause it keeps companies trying to innovate. If apple didn't come out with the iPhone I still think companies would keep trying to imitate BB styled keyboard phones. And if Samsung didn't start coming out with big screens we still be using normal sized screens. BlackBerry needs to be doing everything perfect as much as possible as they really can't afford to make any mistakes in this very competitive smart phone market. So far some of the hardware specs of the z10 and q10 and even on the new a10 are disappointing nevermind canceling any development on updating some features on the PlayBook OS.

Posted via CB10

not so my friend. the a10 is rumored to be maybe having secret unknown features that blackberry may have in store

Posted via CB10

BlackBerry isn't known to keep secrets very well, especially concerning specs but I seriously hope your right. The A10 needs to be superior to the GS4 and the Note 3. Even if the specs are over kill, I don't care.

Hope that's not all they have in store for the future cause that phone has no future and will not be contributing to the growth of BlackBerry 10. It's launching late 2013 with practically the same specs as the Z10 and will be bigger and fatter then every other phone in its segment. That phone has a lower chance of success today then the original BlackBerry Storm had. The A10 should be shelved and never released.

Let's combine all phone companies into one and have them work together to bring all good things from each platform together and let the user decide how to tweak OS. Make EVERYTHING optional....

Posted via CB10

Yah, perfect way to make the technology come to a halting stand-still... You think if one big company was the only choice to be had they would bother to spend money in research and development for new advances in technology? to what end? It's not like they can lose customers if they have no other choice. Oh, and I would love to see the prices too if there is no competition. $2000 phones here we come...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Your DP is very racist and offensive... it's people like you that the world is so effed up

via CB10 on the amazing Z10

I believe he's complaining about Jim's avatar. I don't know what it means but I get the feeling it's not very appropriate.

His comment is not racist at all, unless you consider communists from the former Soviet Union a race. With no competition, as was the case in Soviet Union, you get crappy products, such as the Lada.

What's actually wrong with the WP8 platform though? Yeah, most of us here on CB prefer phones made by BlackBerry but that doesn't mean the competition makes poor/distasteful devices.

Posted via CB10 on my white Z10 & lovin' it!

I agree. Granted they have a different target audience, the tiles system they have is pretty poor at properly notifying you of new incoming messages. The Hub is definitely a better option for productivity, but for the more casual user who cares more about their social networking and other things like that, it's not a bad platform. But just different strokes for different folks. It's not for me.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

I found the tiles distracting and pretty annoying. But that is just me. I wouldnt bash a phone just because I'm a BB fan.

WP8 is a great platform, but I used it and it did not attract me to it. For others it did. My other choices were iOS and BB10, Android I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. In the end I chose the best BB10.

I will trade my z10 for a nokia 1020 anytime. We need to stop dreaming that BlackBerry has awesome phones. They are not!!

Posted via CB10

I too liked some of the features built into the platform. Although it is not to my liking with the layout of the tiles and other less than stellar attributes, the phone DOES have something to offer to the right person ... I just happen not to be that person. And for what its worth, competition does keep the innovative features coming and the price down so that everyone can afford a device, not just the select few with deep pockets.

Hahah I have to agree with you, I personaly don't like neither Nokia phones (I think they are ugly and some designs are childish) nor Windows Phone (I think the tiles aren't the best way to organize apps because of the non-fixed positions). But nevertheless this is my opinion, I like business stuff, I like neat and stylish phones that work for the business world, phones you can use while wearing a suit, etc.

P.S.: I hate the curved back, like the camera.

Well if BlackBerry 10 didn't come out soon enough. I'll be holding a 920 right now. WP8 phone is my next choice down the line.

Posted using The Z10

disagree. i dont like the design of nokia phones. and i find wp8 okay... i am able see that they are able to bring pc desktop to a phone though and i wud definetly buy that but for now i watch from the sides with my beautifull bb10. everyone has their own opinions and this happens to be mine

Posted via CB10

I see it as good news for Nokia, they were a great phone manufacturer in the past and WP8 looks promising.

As to what it means for BlackBerry, well I hope it's just motivation to continue to push BB10 especially in the States and really get BBRY's "phase 2" going so they don't lose steam.

Posted via CB10 on my white Z10 & lovin' it!

Yep, that's why I think people who talk crap about how much they wish BB would die, or Apple will die, are extremely short-sighted...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Funny for you to say "hope they both do well" I fully agree, it would be nice to see both BlackBerry and Nokia knock out Android and iOS from the top spot. It would further drive innovation to the extreme, something this industry needs.
For years now, the only relevant choices were iOS and Android. This to me equals BORRING. Thank goodness we now have BB10 and WP8 to spice up the competition and give people choice.

I'd say Nokia definitely has an advantage when it comes to the US market but it's a slim one at best. . .on the more global scale it really is anyone's guess who will come out on top. . .

Hmmm...I'd say it's the other way around. Keep in mind that BB has some inroads into the enterprise (however eroded they might be.) Nokia doesn't really have that.

What advantage in the US? Lumia sales DROPPED in the US by 100 000 units compared to the quarter prior to a measly 500 000 total units in the US for the quarter.

BlackBerry just needs a few more fortune 500 companies in the US to adopt BlackBerry 10 and they can move more then 500 000 per quarter in the US. Once they figure out how to get rolling in the consumer market they'll crush Nokia in North America. Nokia is much stronger outside the US then they are in the US.

I think when it comes to BlackBerry the media in general is still on the BlackBerry is finished bandwagon. When BlackBerry was in third place I remember reading a few articles saying there wasn't room for three platforms. Sure enough, when Microsoft announced WP8 had overtaken BlackBerry for third, there was at least one article stating there wasn't room for four platforms! Shoulda kept the links...

There's still not room enough for three platforms. BlackBerry and Nokia are fighting for scraps. And it doesn't look like that's gonna change with 1.5 million Android devices activated per day now.

Nokia I thought they were almost but gone. Its a pointless battle, as for me blackberry is first and that goes to say to what ever phone you use will be number one for you.

Posted via Z10

Not with the horrible marketing. If they keep up with this shitty ads and not put in out super powerful devices there done in 1.5 years.

Posted via CB10

the MORE choices the better, but if you fall behind (particularly here in the US) then you are deemed a loser and don't get the support you need in order to succeed (ie the ones who will make apps for you)


Don't forget Apple's fall from grace - in the late late 80's, early 90's they were nothing but a cheap school machine. Companies can make a turn-around with solid products and superb marketing. QNX can go a lot farther than phones, but Blackberry has a long, hard hill to climb.

Thanks Chris, useful and insightful, as usual !

I for one won't fight anyhow against Nokia.
First, because it's a pretty darn smartphone, in particular in the photo area.
Second, but not least, because for every single kick NOK/MS give to competitor, due to current duopoly, it's almost 90% aimed against AAPL and Sammy and have a very moderate impact on BlackBerry sales, IMHO.
Yet, it tends to demonstrate that this duopoly is not unbreakable. And I like this doubt in people ("the street") minds; they may finally understand that 2 players are not - forever - unbeatable. #3, #4 ? Who cares ? At the end of the day, the winner is the one with the best ROI and growth potential :)

You cannot compare 7.4M Lumia Windows Phone 8 to 6.4M BB's as only 2.7M were BB10's. That is a significant difference! If the 6.4M were all BB10 than I would say it is a fair comparison. And the Lumia number is increasing whereas the BB number is decreasing...

Not all Lumias are WP8 phones either. I didn't see it indicated in the article that Nokia was reporting WP8 phones sales only. If it does include phones earlier than WP8, then it is perfectly legitimate to at least include BBOS 7.1 phones as BBOS is 7.1 is still a current and actively developed OS and WP7 phones could not be upgraded to WP8. There were at least 5 WP7 Lumia models and they are stuck at WP 7.8.

As Chris says, the Lumia are in their fourth full quarter of GA, and BB10 is only in its second.

We'll have a much better sense in another couple of quarters.

Note that Microsoft has been promising unified messaging since WP8 was introduced and still hasn't delivered.

From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10

Didn't you just contradict yourself? You said that Lumia sales cannot be compared to the 6.8M total devices BlackBerry sold in the last qtr, which I agree with. I won't go into the life cycle argument of why BB10 is only at 2.7 for the last qtr, because if you would have read the entire article, you may have seen that. But what I have a problem with is you saying Lumia sales are increasing (true), and BlackBerry sales are decreasing. If you're comparing the Lumia sales to BB10 sales (7.4 vs. 2.7), then BlackBerry sales are increasing as well. BB7 is declining, not BB10. Get your facts straight.

Posted via CB10

I stand corrected on this point. Certainly BB10 sales are increasing given the product did not exist prior to its release in January. The next couple of quarters will tell whether they are increasing or decreasing quarter to quarter.
By the way looks like they are increasing advertising as I am seeing more...This weeks issue of BusinessWeek showed BB on the back outside cover, full page spread and I saw a full page in the Globe and Mail.

See, this is what I don't understand. BlackBerry 10 is most established in the Canadian market relative to any other country. Saturated, in comparison. So why spend tens of thousands of dollars on one full page national newspaper ad here? That money could be better spent somewhere else.

Doesn't matter about profit. The trick is to get people into your platform. Nokia is doing that better than BlackBerry

Posted via CB10

Sorry I can't buy into this article. Things are looking grim. But it all can be turned around. BlackBerry need to do what needs to be done asap

Posted via CB10

You just said profits don't matter. I think you need to look at your own economic situation before you check on others lol.

Sent from my BB10 smartphone.

Nokia has just as strong of mindshare as BlackBerry which is nothing to sneeze at. Their hardware quality is bar none the best and in absolute terms with the surrounding circumstances, anything is possible.

I agree that BlackBerry needs to step up their marketing (more dollars spent and better quality), however to compare Nokia to BlackBerry is not really fair. Microsoft (and their deep pockets) fund a lot of the windows 8 advertising (which included lumia ads). I do like their focused differentiation in their commercials though (mostly about the camera). BlackBerry needs to focus on how their product is different, why it's better and why it is of greater value then other devices. Easier said than done though.

Posted via CB10

"It’s also interesting to reflect on the fact that Nokia had to sell Lumia phones to an audience that was not already using Windows Phone..."
I don't know, but I bet a lot of Lumia owners might have upgraded from older Windows Phone 7.5 platforms like Samsung and HTC.

Well, they sure as hell didn't come from Symbian as the 200 million installed base of Symbian customers singlehandedly gave the mobile platform victory to Android after the burning platform memo. They fled the burning platform alright but they fled to the USS Green Robot.

Lol first Nokia Lumia phone launched in November 2011. That was a year and a half ago. Compared to BlackBerry's almost 6 months. They've had phones coming out for 3 times longer than BB10 has been on market. So you would think their sales are 3 times as much as BlackBerry's.

The writer did not compare total company sales. Nokia sold 62 million gadget, while BB sold 6.8 million in total.

Also, the article compared WP8 sales with BB7+BB10 sales. Since Blackberry sold only 2.6 million BB10.


I'm disappointed actually Chris. I've always respected your opinion and enjoyed reading what you've got to say, and I'm sure that'll be the case again, but in this article I reckon you've been very erm selective in the facts and figures used to downplay Lumia sales. The blurring of when you are talking about BB10 sales vs BlackBerry sales doesn't help. Anyone skim-reading your article would conclude that the race is tight... 7.4M Lumias vs 6.8M BB10. Far from the truth.

I think CrackBerry's writers are instructed to spin any news in the most positive light and/or always find the silver lining. Chris is trying a little too hard on this one.

"It’s also interesting to reflect on the fact that Nokia had to sell Lumia phones to an audience that was not already using Windows Phone, while BlackBerry has a huge built-in customer base having peaked its subscriber base at about 80 million."

The Lumia can be an easy sell if the customer is looking at price. Nokia is putting out some decent phones for prices not too hard on the pocket. They seem to be refreshing their lineup frequently enough that prices on earlier models come down fairly quick.

I was looking forward to the day that Nokia would come back to the U.S. market as I was quite content with them in my early days of having a cell phone. Honestly, for my basic needs for a smartphone, the Nokia 928 is a nice phone and would be a tempting deal if not for a few factors. The screen is splendid and graphics are pleasant once you get past the tiles. If it didn't have the sharp corners, maybe a bit smaller and had some color I would have bought it. I was hoping something along the lines of the 920 looks and feel. If Verizon had done that it would have been an easy sell for me.

The fact that BlackBerry sold so few on a relative basis given the installed base is very concerning. The momentum is with Nokia. They are building windows subs Q by Q while blackberry is losing subs. BlackBerry has very few high end subs and that's why the z10 and q10 results are weak...

Posted via CB10

Nokia is selling cheap Lumia's to get market share.
The product experience is a different story....Z10 is far superior than Lumia series...

Posted via CB10

Nokia has all sorts of issues. Siemens wants to be bought out, so there is a question where that money will come from. Also, related but yet to be relevant is Microsoft's just report earnings (negative), will Microsoft continue to pump money into Nokia?

Chris you point out the cash position, but is it really a far comparison? Nokia has a 100k employees, BB, what 15k?

Title of this piece reminds me of what the captain of the Titanic said ... We've just hit an iceberg ..what does it all mean...

This a completely BS comparison. The lumia has been out for years. The longer a device is on the market the more it gets discounted. The oldest BB10 phone (the Z10) is only 6 months old.

Posted via CB10

BlackBerry marketing is sad. Change the marketing strategy and I'm sure it'll out perform Nokia in few quaters.

Corky Notes for bb10 developer

I think this competition is good for everyone. Consumers need options. I know people that are curious so they have switched between Apple and Android as they want to experience something different. I think people might also see Nokia phones out there and decide they want to "experience" a new phone. I know because this is what i did. I got sick and tired of my iphone 4 and decided to try something new after trying my friends Z10 out and i haven't looked back since.

A couple years ago we had 500+ BB users in our company, now less than 50, and only 5 BB10! Our BB users are opting for iOS and Android phones. It's sad, and I hope the trend turns around soon.

The best selling Lumia, the 510, sells for $150 or less off contract. The cheapest BB10 phone is $400 (the Q5), and wasn't even included in these earnings. RIM needs a cheaper phone, but Nokia is gaining sales by giving away margin.

BlackBerry needs to make products with better specs rather than low spec high margin. The more phones you sell the more exposure and ecosystem. Not the higher margin you gain the better. X_X

Posted via CB10

Though I agree BlackBerry marketing sucks in comparison to the competition. Until something dramatic changes in their marketing, articles like that will continue to pop up.

Posted via my sexy Black Z10

Nokia sells 3 lumias and makes the same profit as blackberry one phone sold. Hmmm. That puts BlackBerry ahead in the curve.

Posted via CB10

At least they did.

With all of these price drops... do you believe that carriers are going to eat the losses?

Do you believe that BlackBerry is going to continue to overprice their devices?

It didn't work for the PlayBook, it hasn't been working for OS7 devices, and it didn't work for the Z10. BBRY is going to either get aggressive on hardware pricing, or they will have to accept a very low adoption rate.

Chris, I can't agree with your comment regarding existing user bases. Indeed, Nokia did not have any Windows Mobile users to migrate over to Windows Phone, in opposite to BlackBerry who has a large legacy OS user base to upgrade to BB10.
However, at least around here in germany, Nokia was always Nokia, with quite a strong user base owning their Symbian handsets. Unlike north america, where Symbian never mattered much, it did in many other countries. At least around here, Nokia was and still is fighting hard to keep their existing users and get them to move over to their new Lumia devices. I still know a number of people who really like Nokia due to their design, durability and general brand performance, but they stick with their aging Symbian devices for now, waiting till Windows Phone improves further.

On the other hand side, there actually are Nokia users who migrate to BlackBerry. People who liked their E-Series, like the E7, E6 or the famous E72 didn't got a decent replacement for their QWERTY smartphones yet. Steve Litchfield of just recently reviewed the BlackBerry Q10 from his Symbian user perspective and he was quite surprised by the physical keyboard BB10 device. Also quite some people in the comments mentioned they either already bought a Q10 or are at least considering it.
That happens when a brand gives up a part of their users, I migrated to BBRY last year (Bold 9900) for the very same reason!

Posted via the awesome Blackberry Q10

I'd be interested in knowing how many of those were of the 920 class and how many of the 520/620/720 they sold. I mean even I'm considering trying to find a cheap 620 just to play with.

As far as I know, 520 is the best selling WP at the moment. And it's a bottom end smartphone by 2013 standarts (for me).

I am seeing a lot more BBRY's than WP8 phones when I am traveling and just met with a UK-based colleague. And guess what she is using. A white Q10 for doing the work and a Samsung for private things like photos or everything that need a larger screen.

Pricing is also a bit against BBRY because 10.1 is not yet where iOS and Android is.

BBRY is on a good way and my list of things they need to fix to pass Nokia and other is rather short:

- Respond to the E-Mail issue (security)
- Release 10.2 to finally catch up with iOS and Droid
- Fix BB Link (e.g. tunmgr) and make it a solid application (e.g. contacts sync)
- Fix BB World (paying per Paypal with SMS/Text validation doesn't work etc.)
- Fix BB Beta Zone (ugly account issue)
- Fix Support(!!!) - You have to come up with a real customer support organization. Twitter or a Forum is not working

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but let's not forget that we're talking about #3 as a battle between Windows Phone 8 and BlackBerry 10 platforms. Sure, Nokia's Lumia is a big part of the Windows Phone 8 sales totals, but there are other manufacturers who sold other Windows Phone 8 devices during the quarter. Basically, BlackBerry 10 was *big time* outsold by just one of several WP8 hardward vendors.

The factor I don't know anything about is brand loyalty. In 2014, we'll see a multitude of new "free" platforms which could be easily coupled with impressive hardware. These include Ubuntu, Tizen, and Firefox OS. Where will BlackBerry users go? Where will WP8 users go? That may determine much...

You missed the entire point of the article. The article is specific to the Nokia device models. If you factored in other Windows 8 phones sales e.g. HTC, Samsung then they're completely obliterating BB. "Men lie, Women lie; Numbers don't" - Me

It is an ecosystem battle. It is not just BlackBerry against Nokia for third place. It is Blackberry against Nokia and HTC for third place. Neither platform is doing very well but momentum sure seems to be with Windows Phone at the moment.

I have just moved from Blackberry (Pearl and then a Z10) to the Lumia 925, and it really is very good, the phone looks very professional and not like the fisher price look they have had, as for the operating systems, WP8, it is very good.

Nokia is moving at quite a pace and they seem to keep their customers very well informed, WP8 is very stable and to-date, I have not had any problems getting apps that I need, the tile system is very easy to use and customisable making it very user friendly.

I used Nokia phones (like most people of a certain age) for about 10-15 years before moving to Blackberry so it is a brand I know and trust, and this is a strong selling point for Nokia.

Blackberry have been very slow in moving forward over the past few years, and had a problem keeping some promises that has angered existing customers. The younger generation are not moving to Blackberry for BBM anymore as there are other alternatives around for other platforms, so I feel Blackberry have lost out on that segment of the market as well.

I do wish Blackberry luck, but they do seem to be struggling to find their way, nothing they have produced has been ore inspiring or headline grabbing like Nokia's 41 megapixel camera (6th most searched keyword on Google 2 days ago) Blackberry has nothing like this, and considering all the leaks, there is nothing heading this way anytime soon.

This is just the way I see it from both sides, like it or not, only time will tell.

Sadly BlackBerry has not revealed the number of bb10 units sold, so we cannot compare the numbers to Nokia. Windows Phone is not a threat right now to the BlackBerry Enterprise market, but I hear VPN support mighy be coming in 2014. I agree with the other comments BlackBerry needs a cheaper off contract priced bb10 device, the Q5 is not cheap enough, and not even available in North America.

First of all, BlackBerry DID release their number of BB10 units sold. The number was 2.7M last quarter. Also, with regards to your cheaper phone argument, cheaper phones mean very small margins. Flagship phones are the key to this market. They combine both high sales with high margins to generate the most revenue. And having a good flagship at all times (which you can continue to introduce at a premium price for each new device) provides two huge benefits. One, it keeps the average selling price of your entire portfolio stable and healthy. Second, your flagship is in essence the face of your company, and if it is of high quality it can go a long way in building brand value. Personally I believe BlackBerry needs to focus their efforts on an even better flagship than the A10, one which leaps the completion in terms of specs. Furthermore, once the product portfolio has been around for long enough, older BB10 phones will be deeply discounted, hence no real reason to build a separate, even cheaper device than the Q5. That will only unfocus and hurt the company. At the end of the day, the most innovative company with the best products should (in theory) win out.

Posted via CB10

Q10 is too expensive. The Q5 is too expensive. The sales of these device will be lackluster until the price drops. The Z10 price is actually dropping to where it should have been at launch, but it like the PlayBook it launched very incomplete and the carrier update issue is crippling the platform and making them look bad. BlackBerry simply just doesn't seem to be in touch with reality and still thinks that they are an iconic brand that can demand top dollar for any device they release and whatever they build will sell. Well the market and consumer have been showing them that this isn't the case for a while and they still don't get it, and until they do and humble themselves, they are doomed to fail!

The way I see it, perception is sometime more important the numbers produced.

BlackBerry needs to find a way to break the perception in order start being successful.

Posted via CB10 using a Z10

Absolutely. It's had a big impact not a doubt. Either a brilliant marketing campaign or slash the cost of the phone. The biggest hurdle to overcome is to get people to even pick up the phone and look at it at the moment.

Good for Nokia. I almost bought one.... but I finally settled on the Z10. Lumia is not a horrible phone, it's actually quite nice. IMO a good second place behind BB Z10, with Experia Z third. iPhone not in this picture, IMO 'cause I don't regard a glorified iPod a smartphone.

I think that these kinds of articles that try to rationalize bad news need to stop. If anything, trying to make an excuse for every piece of bad news makes crackberry (and BlackBerry) look much more desperate.

Posted via CB10

All I know is my friends Windows phone kept locking up or crashing. He ended up with the zad 10.

Posted via CB10

Cheez...instead of bashing Nokia and Microsoft let's just stick to the facts! And as an owner of a Z10 I also had problems and returned for an exchange and my Q10 has issues as well, but I can live with as I support BB.

I just showed my buddy a senior rep for a very large Industrial paper company using a Bold 9900 my Z10.
He said his company with 1500 employees in Canada were giving choices of Z10 and Q10. the majority will jump to the Q10. Anyway they love both keyboards on the Q10/Z10 . But the interesting thing was they were using Lenovo tablets after their Surface MS tablet trial fell thru and settled for Lenovo. So Q10/Z10 and Lenovo tablet ....hmmm....... hint hint !!!

Are these articles really necessary (BBM vs. WeChat, BB vs. Nokia)?
It makes CB look like a fanboy site, and not just a site dedicated to BB news, there is a difference.
Fanboys are irrational and I prefer not to listen to them.

totally agree, I'm sick of these articles not objectives that seek to demonstrate that the bad news is actually excellent! No need to be a specialist to see that BlackBerry is now tumbling and does not know what to do to get by.

"and I suspect given the launch of the Q10 and Q5 in the BlackBerry August quarter, we’ll see much stronger performance than this from the Waterloo company when they report their next results."

Given that BBRY just slashed production of BB10 phones from 2M to 1M per month (that's total for BB10 phones), I don't see that as being likely. It's also likely to hurt BBRY's margins, as they may lose some volume discounts for components. Couple those items with lower prices for the Z10 and a strong market objection to the pricing of the Q10 and Q5, it's hard to be optimistic.

I wish both BlackBerry and Nokia success in chipping away at the dominant Android and iOS platforms ... I own both a Curve and Lumia 620. The Lumia is a fantastic value device and mine came with a free Windows 8 DVD. Unlike BlackBerry and the PlayBook debacle, Nokia (and Microsoft) have excellent support for their legacy Windows 7 products with OS updates, good application support and free applications such as Nokia Music and Drive/Here offline navigation. I would like to switch to a BB10 phone, but in the UK both the Z10 and Q10 represent poor value for money compared to Nokia Lumia range. For example, the 920 and 820 are now priced to be significantly cheaper but with comparable specs to the BlackBerries. I did notice however that the Z10 has recently been price cut by one retailer, but I would still go for the cheaper Lumia If I were going to spend that kind of money.

I would have to say it is a little early to tell who is ahead. I have used a Window phone and it was nice but in the end I went back to blackberry because it works best for me. Both are good companies and it will be neat to see what happens in the future.

Posted via CB10

I don't think it means anything for BB. It's just another competitor. Just keep on building a better product.

Did you add HTC, Samsung, and other's Windows Phone sales to that number. It's pretty clear that Windows Phone is outselling Blackberry. I'm not sure why this editorial is needed to discuss something that is blatantly obvious.

BB overpriced their phones. Even I was interested in the Z10, until they told us how much they were selling it for. When you can get a GS3 for $99 and a Lumia 920 for the same, no one wants to blow that amount of cash on an unproven platform using comparable hardware that doesn't have an ecosystem comparable to Microsoft, Apple, or Google backing it.

And it is not just about apps. It's about services and how well those services are integrated. The days of using 20 logins for different services on one device are over. People like to consolidate and limit their exposure these days.

"Let them both keep moving"

Couldn't agree more with that statement.
Neither of these company's should be dogging it out for 3rd place and trying to score point off of each other. They should be aiming high and trying to do what they do best, or specifically, better than Apple and Android.
Competition is good for the mobile industry.
Sure keeps me interested.

Posted via CB10

OF COARSE NOKIA OUTSELLS BLACKBERRY. NOKIA IS AN AMAZING PHONE COMPANY THAT NEVER CAUGHT THE EYE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR REASONS I DON'T KNOW. NOKIA NOW HAS A STRONG COMPANY BEHIND ITS BACK AND BEST OF ALL THAT COMPANY IS AN AMERICAN COMPANY SO WE ARE ONLY NOW SEEING NOKIA TAKE HOLD OF THE MARKET IN THE U.S. I will say that Nokia and BlackBerry will be fighting for the number 1 and 2 spot in the next 5 years. I called it years back that Windows was going to do the opposite of other companies and bring the Desktop experience to Mobile while others tried to bring Mobile to Desktop experience. Windows has a lot going for it, Im sure Ipad sales slowed down now that we have Windows 8 on tablets made by IBM and such. Wait till the american people see the Nokia 1020, I'm sorry but Nokia put the MegaPixel race to an End. I'm a proud owner of the Z10 and the Nokia 808 41MP camera phone. I wish my 2 favorite companies were not at such a battle over 3rd place instead it should be a race for 1st and 2nd because 3 nobody remembers lol

This "expert" Chris is just too much! Can't see outside of the BB - bubble he is sittning in! Sad!
The Z10 and Q10 are as dead as the Playbook!

Just want to add that I spoke to one BBRY's top 30 re sellers in the EU on the BES front, and he did mention that Blackberry had seen some very new and strong competition from Lumia as MFST are winning with CTOS. The whole Office Online integration is paying off.

He did also say that Demand for for Bes10 installs is running very high, maybe about 30% of Bes installed base trying it out.

Posted via CB10

What BlackBerry needs to do is selling a very very cheap device for a few quarters just so they can say "we sold a bunch of BlackBerry 10 devices"!!!!!!

Why do they seem not to be understanding this?

Posted via CB10

I have a BlackBerry Z10 and the phone is as good as you can get, however BlackBerry as a company continues to disappoint. The continued bumbling of BlackBerry's device roll out's, backing out on previous promises (PlayBook OS), and the total ambivalence to the reality that BlackBerry is NOT the "go to" device that it once was.

BlackBerry needs to spend some of their cash reserves and ADVERTISE the hell out all their devices - TV, radio, and print (already advertising on Web).

I'm a Shareholder and believe in the Z10 operating system, however if no one else on the planet know about it how the hell can BlackBerry's market share ever increase!?

Spend a quarter of the $3.1MM cash and get the message out that BlackBerry has "kick - ass" product! If not - sell immediately to preserve shareholders equity.

Frustrated beyond belief!

Posted via CB10

My money has been with BlackBerry from the last year, and it's still is,
Long bb
Thanks for your article Chris,

Posted via CB10

BlackBerry has a great chance to become a major player in the smartphone industry again if they play their cards right.

They need to fix the issues and get the developers on board sooner than later so the user experience for a first time blackberry owner is a great one.
Remember they are up against some tough competition so they need to get on the ball!

Posted via CB10

Personally I hope that both Nokia and BlackBerry will stay in the market. It is always good to have an alternative plus they are both great companies.

Posted via CB10

It's interesting isn't it... Android really only gained traction as an alternative to IOS.. But is really a bug ridden, laggy, piece of malware.... Windows phone and bb10 are superior to android, just watch windows phone and bb10 eat into android market share as more and more as apps become available for each platform

I don't agree. The latest version of Android runs fine on my 2 year old Asus tablet. I only run legitimate apps and have no problems at all. The tablet is for Android development, but it now gets used because the current implementation of Google Maps is just so superior, and of course I can link the tablet to my Q10 using Mobile Hotspot. The objection to Android is nothing to do with OS superiority, and entirely down to what I am prepared to let Google know, i.e. I don't use it for anything relating to banking or that might be client confidential.
I have a Q10 because there is no Android phone that meets my requirements as a phone. It's up to BlackBerry to ensure that they continue to produce products with USPs. Hence my suggestion below that Nokia and BB should merge; they both have special strengths and together could offer products that nobody else could match.

This is not surprising at all. The Lumia phones are definitely selling better in Malaysia/ Singapore/ Thailand.

Lets just be upfront that BB has gotten its pricing strategies wrong from day 1. There is only a limited target segment which you can try to attract with premium pricing phones. Prices should have greatly been lowered to improve market penetration rate which should encourage more developers on board as well as to encourage higher shipment and sell through. Honestly, I doubt that the Q5 will sell well. There is hardly any buzz reported on launch day. The faith of BB now really hinges on BES10. Having BBM on Android or IOS is hardly a catalyst given the popularity of Whatsapp, Line, Viber and WeChat in this part of the region.

Is this a dum ass question? When will we see an official Os. From blackberry that we can load as a..........leak.

Posted via CB10

As heretical as it sounds, I would love to see the Lumia 1020 with bb10...

And with OPENVPN support!


Posted via CB10 on my BlackBerry Q10

And the sheer amount of phones Nokia has come out with, while the Z10 is out is kinda say the least...

Posted via CB10

Just stop defending BB. I deeply regret to have bought a Z10 which was more expensive than an iPhone 5. After 4 months of use it's now starting to fall apart. I might actually switch to a Nokia...

Posted via BlackBerry Z10

Very impressive nokia

Shows how garbage BlackBerry numbers are

And remember of the 6.8 mostly were bbos devices a hahaha

Hopefully it turns around

Posted via CB10

As much as I love BlackBerry, we have to stop with this excuse of this certain device not on the market yet. Just face the fact, BlackBerry needs to launch the A10 before the latest iPhone or they'll lose even more opportunities. If the rumors are true that they going to release their latest flagship around November, we'll just make that excuse again of "wait till the device is fully launch around the world."

Posted via CB10

Units shipped vs units in the hands of consumers are two different things. Just because they shipped that many doesn't mean people are racing to their wireless carrier to get it. I think even with blackberry slump in numbers more units make it to the end user.

Posted via CB10

I still haven't seen any one with a Windows phone here in Manitoba. BlackBerry, iPhone and Galaxy. I don't know anyone, with one!! Clearly that says something.

Posted via CB10

Great story and agree can't compare the 2 unless you use same quarters to time of release.

Posted via CB10

IMHO, I think the crucial link to BlackBerry returning to glory must first come via their handsets. And the most critical way to achieve that is by having ALL the mainstream apps that the masses use (Instagram, Netflix) available. As we've seen lately, more and more mainstream and business world used apps are popping up in BlackBerry World. And with those apps, we (the BlackBerry faithful) are able to demonstrate the power that BB10 possesses. And I know every time I get a new app and show it off, it's just one more person that says their switching to BlackBerry.

Posted via CB10

"But more important, we should not be thinking about legacy BBOS phones as part of the modern day smartphone battle. The latest BB7 OS may still be selling well in emerging markets, but it represents the past, not the future. Legacy BlackBerry users will either migrate to BlackBerry 10, or they’ll leave the platform in favor of something else."

So that's why they built a ridiculous, ugly, low/mid range bb7 device when there's already two superior (and funded) bolds and 4 curves (and 2 torches). Foolish decisions are indicative of foolish management...

LOL @ everybody who figures that BlackBerry is having problems stemming directly from no netflix or instagram apps. There is nothing wrong with BlackBerry performance and all the people who bought BlackBerry 10 devices don't care if netflix or instagram are available in BlackBerry World, they'll side load them if they want.

Posted via CB10

Well I care and I have the Q10 and the so your statement is bunk! By the way when did you take this poll of all the people who own BB devices?

Chris, I like your view of glass being half full regarding BlackBerry. In your next article, could you please discuss the recent price discounting on Z10 from $0 to $49 and how this will impact BlackBerry's gross margins. There is a rumour floating on internet side that BlackBerry is now losing $12 on each Z10. Please clarify this for us. Thanks.

Nokia edges Blackberry for the recent quarter release... then Blackberry's excuse is they have yet to start!?!?! c'mon... so let's roll out fast - bring those OS updates fast. let Q10 and Q5 get involved fast.

What I'm trying to say here is that in this fast changing world... the key word is fast.

From a retail perspective only: Nokia is winning in my neck of the woods. I've yet to run into one other person with a Z10, but I'm selling the Lumia 521 like hotcakes. Rightfully so, too. It's a great phone. The Lumia 920 line is superb, and should not be taken lightly.

I carry a Lumia 920 and my Z10. I prefer the 920. In my perfect world the hierarchy would be something along the lines of Nokia > Sony > BlackBerry > Samsung > Apple. Pipedream!

Posted via CB10

I had good luck with a nokia 6230 feature phone, switched to my 8820 for wifi, been BB ever since. Based on my past experience, I would consider nokia if BB were to be unavailable.

Haha why are we discussing aBout third place. By still thought we are too optimistic about BlackBerry future.

Posted via CB10

(french english style... sry!)

I Come from Nokia. Used to have a 920 (sold) and a 720.
I like my Z10 but I miss the physical button for the camera ! And the tile "what's new" (my contacts activities...)

I find the Z10 a little bit to close from iOS. I miss the Nokia drive app and music ! Free for both..
But it's strange to slide on the screen of the lumia to unlock it ;)

That's a hard choice ! I leave wp cause of messages problems, low on ram and found a nice screen (920 too bit too big) no ram problems for hungry apps. I liked the tiles and the room tile. But 1020 is coming but "only" 32gg.. my 920 made greats vidéos, 720 good quality but camera movements.. and I like shot anything.

Don't know if BlackBerry can resist. A lot of phones for Nokia, apple and Google are well installed. Microsoft is angry..

I'll probably make a come back to Nokia next year.

The only thing really similar is : always wait for updates.. I mean officials updates... these both firms need to be more aggressive on this.

I'm not sure the the keyboard is really better on BB than os WP. Less mistakes with my lumia...

Posted via CB10

As a developer I still support BlackBerry because I make money from BlackBerry World. In the past I have released Android apps that mad close to nothing because people simply didn't want to pay for apps on Android.

However, as a consumer, I think that BlackBerry needs to release a phone that people actually desire. Just releasing another plastic phone with a much larger screen (a la the A10 leaks) isn't going to cut it IMHO.

Windows phone is a very simple operating system and come to think of it, hasn't actually changed much since inception. However, Nokia makes fairly desirable products at a fairly decent price point. Nokia haven't even really changed the OS much either (they just have a few WP apps). But they have at least tried to innovate on hardware.

41 MP Camera on a phone that will be at a decent price point?! C'mon dude! That's at least a unique selling point.

Buying a Z10 for the same(ish) price of an iPhone at launch?! That is allegedly the "mobile computing platform of the future" (evidence and details of which we haven't even seen) Why on earth would an average consumer that is not a BlackBerry fan actually buy it?!

And they are surprised of poor sales? They need to reduce the prices of their phones at launch and/or at least release phones that people desire and woun't mind paying a premium for.

National Rail Times App for BB10 (Native Q10 and Z10) -

I haven't either, but then I only see a couple of iPhones, and lots and lots of Samsungs.
Last week I was at a fairly up-market theatrical production, so a lot of vaguely arty and media people about, and the number of people who pulled out BlackBerries to put them on silent at the start was quite extraordinary. Other than these I saw maybe one iPhone and a number of older Nokias. Not a single Lumia. During the interval, someone appeared to be typing up a review on a Z10.
As with all things, YMMV.

Windows 7 sold 1M the first year so it seems so far BB10 does it better at the start then windows.

So far BB10 goes well only had a bad start in the US and still has some operators hanging on Apple contracts. That's prob why there is still no 10.1 and I think also america Movil has no update yeat and that company has business with AT&T. Telcel also from the same group as america Movil has an update.

Something strange is going on and it stinks there in the US.

This only means, blackberry is a exclusive experience! For the serious intellects! That can see a future! That common folk have no idea existed I have waaaay to much class to be caught with a Nokia! Hahahahahah! Lets get serious!

Posted via CB10