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73 Comments

Nokia looks to ban BlackBerry sales over patent dispute

By Adam Zeis on 28 Nov 2012 12:21 pm
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Nokia is looking to ban the sale of all BlackBerry smartphones with WLAN capabilities (which is most current phones) following a dispute over patent royalty fees. This comes after the two companies entered arbitration back in September with the Stockholm Chamber of Commerce in Sweden. Nokia argues that an earlier patent ruling states RIM is not allowed to manufacture devices with wifi connectivity, while RIM is saying that the deal means they shouldn't have to pay fees for the WLAN technology in devices.

Nokia filed a petition Monday with the U.S. District Court in San Jose that stated:

"RIM and its U.S. subsidiary RIM Corporation nevertheless continue to violate the award and breach the underlying agreement, through actions including but not limited to the unauthorized manufacture and sale of WLAN products within this district [Northern California] and throughout the United States." 

The contention follows an agreement from 2003 in which Nokia licensed various patents regarding mobile devices to RIM. 

Source: ComputerWorld 

Topics: Nokia Patents Research In Motion News & Rumors

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73 comments

leafs123

This was RIM's response on twitter.

BlackBerry News ‏@BlackBerryNews
RIM has built an industry-leading IP portfolio of its own and will respond to Nokia's petitions in due course ^KS

togardergrosse

OK. This is great news! CB should update their news too :)

morganplus8

Really hurting the stock right now .................. not!!! Thanks again for allowing me to own your stock at such Black Friday pricing!

flaminSaganaki

This is such a joke. Stop selling all devices with wifi? Ok, shut down all phone sales, im sure Rim will comply with that.

3Athlete

Is it just RIM or any phone manufacturer that has Wifi on their phones and if it's just RIM, why? If it is just by the inclusion of a wifi antenna in a phone this seems like one of those patents that has no place existing. If I can have wifi on a laptop why not on my phone and why should one company have rights to it :/

Hammered Pizza

It's not just RIM they're going after - even Apple paid up against Nokia's behemoth patent portfolio. Not a Windows Phone thing either - they only recently started action against HTC.

Nokia spend more in R&D than any other mobile phone company in the world ever. They're just getting their return on it.

Eskibo

They suddenly realize they need the money.

fragment137

This actually made me laugh..

"Hey RIM! Stop putting WiFi in your phones, cause we found a 10 year old patent that said you couldn't use it!"

That's like saying...

"Hey GM! Stop putting motors in your cars! We patented the idea first!" -- Ford <--- Just making an example, I actually have NO insight to the origins of motor vehicles... I know it wasn't either of these two :P

Hammered Pizza

Engine is essential, WiFi is not.

Nokia have pumped billions of dollars into R&D, more than any other mobile company. They've been at the fore of effectively all major mobile technologies in the past 20 years. It's theirs to license.

Puz_zled

Me thinks you are overstating their case somewhat. Mike L's background was wifi, I'm pretty sure,and RIM has done a wee bit of research&development themselves (being Canada's largest spender by far the last few years, but also going back further than that) since the pagers days. So RIM likely has a few patents of their own in this area to bring an effective defense in terms of monetizing their own research. You can't forget too that Nokia/Microsoft are going to go all out to tie up RIM and keep them from being effective competition, so that may be part of it even though as you mention Nokia is also going after HTC.

DuexNoir

It's quite obvious what Nokia is trying to do here. It is also quite obvious that Nokia and WP8/Microsoft feels threatened by BB10 launching in January. Which only means...I made the right choice in waiting for BB10. :)

Hope RIM wins this patent dispute in the end because it's outright absurd.

~I am BlackBerry by choice~

LongLeggs

Keep taking those drugs friend. They feel sooo threatened that they couldn't keep up with the demand for wp8... riiight. They are in the corner sucking their thumbs because Blackberry is coming out with a phone line that has been done to death by other manufacturers. Scared....... RIM has no balls.

Sparro

whatever dude. Do some homework. Microsoft/Nokia/WP8 is fighting for the the number 3 spot which is held by.... you guessed it... RIM.
They see the light at the end of the tunnel and know that once BB10 comes out they will stay in fourth position which is... NFG.

Hammered Pizza

In the US at least, RIM is no longer at number 3.

Bobert_123

Dude your crazy, RIM is still #3 in the US

Hammered Pizza

Apple
Samsung
HTC
Sony
?

Puz_zled

New sales?? Maybe. Owned and activated?? RIM still has a user base even in Death Valley to the south (of Canada).

MoolahMitch

+1

Due to reckless journalism people are reporting these market share of new sales as total market share from that Kantor report

mrfreetruth

What demand? they are selling very little if anything. They had EMPTY stores during black friday which speaks volume

http://www.thevarguy.com/2012/11/25/windows-phone-8-sales-at-microsoft-s...

You do know WP8 haS MANY PROBLEMS?

http://tellmenews.com/windows-phone-8-and-android-4-2-riddled-with-issue...

http://readwrite.com/2012/11/27/nokia-lumia-920-not-the-windows-phone-fo...

sk8er_tor

They're trolls lost in CrackBerry land due to the new Mobile Nations Passport.

SparkyBC

These Patent lawsuits are getting pathetic. Only reason they would sue is because they're scared to lose market share. Case and point APPLE. They SUE everyone even after stealing their ideas and claim as their own..

The patents issued now a days are so vague and can be interpreted 10 different ways.

Why not patent a tickle motion and then sue any company that uses that gesture. It's ridiculous.

Hammered Pizza

Nope, Nokia sue because they can't afford to let their legitimate claims slide any longer. It can be a major source of income - everyone knows it - it's no secret.

But Nokia's patents aren't bogus, they're the real deal. Even Apple gave in to them.

sk8er_tor

Okay, we get it. You love Nokia. You're not here because you like BlackBerry. No need to reply to every comment.

nt300

If this is the case then every single Smartphone manufacturer is in breach of RIM's parent's. RIM did INVENT the "Smart Phone" right.
Interesting how Nokia chooses such a time to go after other companies for Wifi. Obviously they are desperate for money.

RIM Continues to hold the number 3 spot and IMO the BB10 should have the ability to claw back a lot of past lost market share from both Google and Apple. If BB10 rumours are true regarding RIM's new OS being far more superior to anything out to date, than RIM should more than succeed. Though it will take some time to De-Program the brainwashed Apple users.

iBelieveInBB

I could make good use out of a tickle motion on BB10....

Paintedeyes

do we know if other phone companies are paying Nokia to have wifi on their phones?

Hammered Pizza

Sony, HTC (soon anyway), Samsung, Apple...

enots27

This is rediculous. I guess the only reason they don't say the same about the likes of apple and samsung is cos of the money they have to throw at it.

Rim shouldn't be worried about this cos it is plain stupid. Nokia do not own the wifi technology.
This is just another reason for me to never use a nokia device.

Hammered Pizza

It's not 'plain stupid'. Nokia have legitimate patents, and the strongest portfolio of any mobile phone company. Even Apple pony up to Nokia. Nokia have spent billions in R&D over the years investing in the tech - it's payday.

cbdwolff7

We see payday. OOOH! Stack for Nokia is over $3.00. Whooo Hooo! LOL!! GO RIMM!

Puz_zled

@HP your love of No Kia overfloweth. You've earned your paycheque Microminion, now take your passport and mosy on back to the Window's world from which you came. Thanks for the enlightenment!

The Furbz

So if BlackBerry decide not to pay Nokia for the rights to have WiFi in their new BB10 line up of phones does this mean the release of the first phone could be delayed even further? Just thinking about this makes me want to Cry :-[ However one thing that does make me smile is the thought of Crackberry Kevin's hair being down to his knees.....LOL :D

br14

RIM has been producing phones with wi-fi for years under the terms of their original agreement with Nokia signed in 2003.

This current dispute started when Nokia started a patent troll company with Sony in 2010.

The company MobileMedia Ideas is also suing just about every other phone manufacturer - including Apple.

The patent Nokia sued RIM over is a FRAND patent. Nokia are entitled to a minimal license fee. RIM just doesn't want to pay because Nokia was perfectly happy the way things were for 7 years. This won't hold up anything.

Jonesy1966

From what I understand this only affects OS7 and PlayBook production, not BB10. I've put a call out to friends of mine who have a much greater under standing of these sorts of things than I do but I'm wondering how much influence the Stockholm Chamber of Commerce has outside of, well, Stockholm? Seems like the ruling is only being used as an excuse by Nokia to launch lawsuits elsewhere.

Have Nokia given this any thought? With the patent portfolio RIM holds and the fact Nokia has negative income and no cash reserves, you would think they'd be more willing to shake hands and move on. I think Nokia has bitten off far more than they can chew.

Prepare the Hammer of Thor(sten)!!

cbdwolff7

Thats Awesome!! THOR(sten). Hammer down!!

TomJasper

Blackberry (RIM) 3 month chart :

Blackberry (RIM) + 59%

Nokia + 8%

Apple - 14%

" Can your phone do this? "

canuckcam

Nokia... speaking of a company that tanked in the North American market...

SparkyBC

They should have stuck to making bag phones...lol

SparkyBC

They should have stuck to making bag phones...lol

Jake Storm

Nokia?
Are they still around?
I haven't seen a Nokia being used by anyone for years now.

w0lfgang

Take some of the Rimm cash pile and combine it with a 3:1 stock swap for pathetic $3 NOK shares...buy 51% of controlling interest, and then schedule a press release whereupon you announce, "Now....piss off!"

rcm1301

Right now I'm soo confused like barf in a tumbledryer.

bb10_fan

Gosh, Nokia. Once a great company is turning into patent troll. When the company stops with innovations it starts law suits... Just like Apple last few years...

Hammered Pizza

Nokia have stopped innovating? This is by far the most ridiculous of the lot. Come on.

LWKING

There's a lot of Nokia love with this guy! ;)

Hammered Pizza

I try to remain tech agnostic. What I'm doing here is correcting ignorance - and I do the same in the favour or to the detriment of any OEM or OS.

LWKING

Much appreciated. Unfortunately many people will believe what they want to no matter what information is in front of their face. Sometimes it just isn't worth the effort.

Hammered Pizza

I don't see why people would follow one company blindly. Face it people - to them, we are our wallets - nothing else. I know from the Techfoolery podcasts that Ashley Esqueda agrees.

To be fair, at least OEM and OS fanboys aren't as bad as the carrier fanboys...

bb10_fan

to clarify, I don't follow (especially blindly) any company despite my nickname :) I was (and still is) with Nokia phones for very long time.

Hammered Pizza

Dude, no need to defend at all! I think we all have preferences, it's just not being a douche about it that counts.

bb10_fan

should I apologize for taking your time to write the above two posts? Sorry for making uninformed remark about Nokia's late inventions... Next time will think twice before posting :)

bb10_fan

Let me know the last innovative thing they did since Elop came to power. If you start saying PureView tech, than you'll be wrong, they bought a company that developed it.

Hammered Pizza

Pureview is more than a name. The floating lens was designed in-house by Nokia. That's what allows the image stabilisation.

And other than that, the screen is one. More responsive than any other - useful for British winters (and unfortunately, Spring, Summer and Autumn).

bb10_fan

Hm, that's a good one, agree... As for more responsive screen, not really convinced. Haven't noticed differences in The Netherlands, may be in UK you have warmer winters :)

k-fos

Careful with your example. Rim bought torch, qnx, tat,.. Etc etc. Every company does it. Its what they do with the purchase and how its integrated with their business and products that is innovative. Genuine innovation seems to be coming from startups who either licence their ideas or sell themselves outright.

Techno-Emigre

I am sure RIM has a sharp licensing department and feels confident Nokia isn't going to hang them up. They must have some reason they feel they don't have to pay licensing fees to Nokia. If Nokia does hold the rights then they do diserve compensation, and such rights would be a very valuable asset.

Still ... some part of me is shouting "Oh No!" when I read this. I will sure be glad when I am holding a BB10 device in my hand.

And Jonesy .... I love the nickname Thor and Hammer of Thor ... we should start using that.

irwindersra

I'm thinking RIM will have some decent defenses here; waiting 7 yeas to bring a lawsuit on, they were clearly aware that RIM was manufacturing phones with this technology, there has to be a statute of limitations on this, or even implied waiver if they allowed if to go on for 7 years and only now bring suit because they fear they will not be able to take over the number 3 spot. After rim makes some money on BB10 and fills their bank account back up they should just buy nokia lol, that would make this go away

Hammered Pizza

RIM could never afford Apple, even if BB10 made them $10 billion.

If Nokia goes up for sale, it'll be a straight up bidding war between the big 3.

irwindersra

it doesn't have to be for sale for RIM to purchase them, its called a hostile takeover, if they can afford it, then they can buy it, that's the bottom line, doesn't matter if nokia doesn't want to sell, if the offer is good for the shareholders, the board has to complete the sale

Hammered Pizza

If an offer were to be put in by RIM, the email wouldn't hit the inbox by the time Microsoft and Apple had blown whatever RIM offered out the water.

It's really not a case of 'first', rather 'whoever puts the largest bid in, wins'.

At any rate, Nokia's stock is currently rebounding - so the whole point is moot. Their market cap is also more than double that of RIM's.

3Dee

If Nokia are going to sue RIM they could at least throw in copyright of the N-Series device name and the similarity of the BB10 OS and the MeeGo OS!!!

Skeevecr

You do realise that L and N-series are merely codenames?

k-fos

Wow. Wifi? Is that the best they could come up with? Lol.

Rootbrian

If nokia owns the patent for wifi, they would be able to sue every single hardware manufacturer of everything including laptops, tablets, digital cameras, game consoles and some dvd/bluray players, INCLUDING wireless routers.

Screw nokia. GO RESEARCH IN MOTION!!!! Go blackberry!!!!!

all3n7

hahahaha.... what's nokia anyway??? hahahahaha...!!!!!

moonfalle

I'm no patent expert but I've seen show RIM has the most patents for mobile devices of any company. it's always puzzled me why they don't hit back hard to defend their patents. maybe we'll see something now that I believe they've had a change of leadership in their legal department.
there's a table on this page, a couple years old now but clearly shows RIM in the lead. You have to think they could push back at Nokia for a number of patent infringements as well.

http://googlewatchblog.in/2011/08/rumors-google-might-acquire-rim/

This aside, it may be in RIM's interests to not fight but smooth this over (e.g. negotiate a deal) for a couple years, until BB10 is fully launched and moving forward.
Anyway go RIM!!

rcheung135

Quantity does not necessarily mean quality. Besides, if the other manufacturers aren't planning to use the patents in their other designs as industry standards, there little value to the patents.

RIM also does not have the luxury of excess R&D-- they have had to slim down and stay focus on staying alive at the moment.

technostructural

As a law student, and big RIM supporter, I'll be following this one closely.

SparkyBC

They could go after android for ripping off the lock screen if it's patented... Apple has one on theirs why not RIM.

Raestloz

I wonder if NOKIA can deal irreparable damage to Apple with "no WiFi for you, buddy".

NOKIA may have fallen over hard times, but let's not forget what they did back when phones were large enough to pass as building brick and makeshift dog-killing projectile. Especially the communicator series, the godfather of smartphones. They were late to the whole "smartphone" party, but their phones are solid.

Heck, I wonder why the trend seem to be making a portable media player as big as possible and still call it a smartphone, while NOKIA set the race of making smaller phones. They're easy to slip into pockets.

If they invented WiFi, they deserve all the money they can get.