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It doesn't matter if the iPhone 5 is available before BlackBerry 10

Will an earlier iPhone 5 release overshadow the successful launch of BlackBerry 10?
By Kevin Michaluk on 4 Jun 2012 12:22 pm EDT
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Would an early availability of the iPhone 5 overshadow BlackBerry 10's success? We don't think so...

Does it matter if the iPhone 5 beats BlackBerry 10 to market? This was one of the topics that came up in the chat room discussion during last week's CrackBerry Podcast. One listener in particular was asserting it would completely botch the launch of BlackBerry 10 if the iPhone 5 were to be available sooner.

With our sibling site iMore breaking the rumor that the iPhone 5 will launch in October, and the first BlackBerry 10 phone expected "later this year" (which most of us think means October as well), it seems entirely possible that we could see these next generation devices launch within weeks or heck, even days of each other.

This podcast listener isn't alone. I have seen quite a few comments and posts from CrackBerry readers suggesting that if the iPhone 5 were to go to market first it would not bode well for BlackBerry 10. As in lights out. Too late. Game over. But as we discussed on the podcast, we don't think it's the iPhone 5 factor that will determine whether the launch of BlackBerry 10 is a success or not.

More critical than when BlackBerry 10 launches, be it before or after the iPhone 5, is that it delivers a great user experience to the people RIM is building it for. As RIM said at BlackBerry World last month, they are building BlackBerry 10 for BlackBerry People. It's not a phone for sheep. It's a phone for people who do.

BlackBerry 10 needs to translate the get sh!t done communication and user experience that people loved about the original BlackBerry OS and not screw it up while bringing it up to the powerful and much more modern QNX-based BlackBerry 10 platform. It needs to be solid. No bugs. The more complete it is, the better. I'm sure there will be some functions missing at launch that are available on other platforms (like a voice control Siri type app...), but that doesn't really matter. What matters is the *important* stuff is there. Make the keyboard rock. Make it rock at communications. Make sure the app store has all the important stuff in that people care about. Make the web browser rock. 

Look, nobody (with a properly functioning brain) is thinking when the first BlackBerry 10 phone launches that it's going to outsell the iPhone. And it doesn't have to for the launch of BlackBerry 10 to be a success. As I said following BlackBerry World, BlackBerry 10 will not appeal to everybody. And that's a good thing in my opinion, because I don't want an iOS clone experience on a BlackBerry. I want a better BlackBerry experience.

It's going to be critically important that BlackBerry properly market and get the message out to the world of exactly who BlackBerry 10 is for and what the value proposition is for those people. Part of that clear messaging is also making people intuitively understand who BlackBerry 10 is not for... people who don't.  Though as Chris Umi pointed out on the podcast, most people are going to consider themselves as people who do even if they are not.

Obviously Research In Motion **NEEDS** to get BlackBerry 10 onto the market as soon as possible, and if they can do that before the iPhone 5 hits all the better. Every day BlackBerry 10 is not available, RIM is losing potential customers and bleeding dollars and market share. They still have money in the bank, and money equals time to execute, but with RIM set to post an operating loss for the quarter, it's an indicator that we'll likely see RIM start to eat into their cash reserves moving forward vs. grow them, at least until BlackBerry 10 sales start flowing.

I'm still a firm believer that RIM will get BlackBerry 10 to market, and I also believe the release of the iPhone 5 is less important to BlackBerry 10's success as is RIM simply making sure BlackBerry 10 rocks for the people who are waiting for it. Throughout our network of sites and elsewhere on the web, I'm seeing more and more comments from past BlackBerry owners who are now iOS / Android / Windows Phone owners that they're thinking about trying BlackBerry 10 when it hits. This is a good sign, and it's independent of the release date of the iPhone 5.

Bottom line: The iPhone 5 will be a better iPhone. Not a better BlackBerry. And there are a lot of people in the world who are waiting for a better BlackBerry. Even if the iPhone 5 hits the market before BlackBerry 10 does, the people who want a better BlackBerry will go to it when it's available. BlackBerry 10 will be a differentiated product offering from what iOS offers. Would it be better if BlackBerry 10 launched before the iPhone 5? Absolutely yes. But at this stage in the game, it's more important that RIM get BlackBerry 10 right than push it out to the market fast but unfinished.

Reader comments

It doesn't matter if the iPhone 5 is available before BlackBerry 10

227 Comments

Well of course it's real. Dont you know, I always have every unreleased phone in existence. Lol.

Kidding, kidding.... that's just some fun photoshopping.

Kevin, RIM and Crackberry should accept that they are not at the top of the mountain, rather they are at gound level as compare to other mobile companies. RIM share has dropped below $10 and this is a had fact that people (the deciding force) dont have any trust in RIM. However, Mr. Kevin and RIM both are keeping their head under the ground, not realizing that the Lion is standing just next to them to eat them up.
Please stop making fun of other products, this is a cheap tactics, please respect them, as many people follow and buy product of these companies. if you and RIM want people to follow you, come up with a product that appeal masses.
What RIM and you cares is to sell your devices not even thinking that an year ago you were all celebrating for the launch of 9900 and blackberry 7. People spend their hard earned money to buy the device and now they will be left alone with no updates to the new OS. Please come out of fools paradize, $500 matters a lot, you think that people will ditch their year old phones for a new BB 10 device, who know next year RIM dithces this device and comes up with BB 20. then what about the people who will buy BB10?

I hope the iClone5 comes out before BB10. The market expects so much from Apple who have failed the past few product launches to give us the "wow".

This leaves the door open for BB...

Exactly! The people who still are under contract with their 4 is more than likely gonna upgrade to 5.

If they dont already have a Blackberry now, they are not waiting around for BB10. They are gonna get the iPhone.

Honestly, nobody is checking for BB10 other than current BB users and enthusiasts. Mainstream folks think Blackberry is dead because is little to NO marketing of ANY Blackberry products.

Long delays do not work in RIM's favor. Remember how long it took for the Bold 9900 to come out? (on all carriers) Most people jumped shipped and never looked back.

BB10 NEEDS to come out before the new iPhone.

+1

Keys to success of BB10 (IMHO)

I. Release before iPhone (to get those that are not willing to wait for the iPhone to upgrade)

II. Advertise heavily

III. Have a decent app eco-system upon release

IV. Hope that carriers price the devices competitively (T-mo still has the Bold 9900 for $299 on contract, which is insane when considering what the competitors that have "Leapfrogged" Blackberry are charging for their flagship devices.

Agreed. It does matter very much that BB10 arrive before Iphone 5. More than the remaining BB faithful will need to buy in order to generate the momentum necessary to make a comeback for RIM. There will of course be many that wait for the Iphone no matter when BB10 comes out. But if, or rather *WHEN* RIM executes flawlessly on the BB10 release, many Iphone and Android users may jump ship in our direction.
It needs to happen before Iphone 5.

+1. Even a lot of the tech people I know are just not even paying attention anymore.

I'm excited because I need the sorts of tools that help me get things DONE, but...you know to be honest, Android and Apple are putting together quite a few of those, too. The new Galaxy s3 will have voice-activated stuff all done onboard, which eliminates most of the reasons I don't use it. It could be handy as hell now.

Just one feature of course, but...anyway. :-) Mostly I'm still excited, I just know you're right that very few other people are actually paying attention. It's not just the markets...
-Stephen

To use your words "The market expects so much from Apple who have failed the past few product launches to give us the "wow"." Is this the same market that buys 35.1 million iPhone 4S's a quarter (last quarter's sales figures)? Massive markte failure right there, I guess. Samsung proudly proclaims selling 5 million Galaxy Notes in 3 months, Apple sells 4 milion iPhones in 3 days.

Only from the perspective of the Android crowd (best phone changes just about evety other week), in which they proudly proclaim how great their hardware is, how fast it runs, this many megapixels of camera resolution, etc., would the iPhone 4S be termed as "having failed to deliver the "wow"".

True reality is that there is as much uniformity in Android hardware as can be had from devices built by different manufacturers. Lets see: quad core Tegra 3 CPUs (unless it is an LTE phone, in which case substitute a dual core Snapdragon or Exynos CPU). Wfi, 4,5-4.8", 720P screens, either Super LCD or OLED. Batteries from 1600-2200 ma. In many cases, no uSD slot(a key differentiator for Android vs. iOS). In many cases, this is all required, as Android seems to need greater hardware resources to run as smoothly as the iPhone 4s. Is this the "wow" you are referring to?

As for Blackberry, they should have had the BB10 phones out last quarter. If they launch at around the same time is the iPhone 5, they will get decimated in terms of market share. There is NO reason to expect that the people currently using BB5,6,7 BBs will jump to BB10; none of their applications move over, none of their hardware (cases, possibly chargers, docks, etc.) move over. To most, this is a platform change, perhaps from the same company, but a platform change nonetheless. If they are going to be puth through the platform change, it isn't automatically going to be to BB10. This is because the iPhone will have a lot of buzz, not just from the tech blogs, but from everyday newspapers; and don't think that Apple won't have their PR machine in overdrive, either. They have always had commercials that get their message across very well, in contrast to RIM, who's advertising is sometimes hard to decipther, and is inconsistent.

Kostas

Not at all. RIM needs to deliver a great, high quality, feature rich phone that won't be obsolete by the next OS version to come out (see BB OS5, 6, and soon 7 owners). They need to come to grips with the reality that they can't hope to sell only to exisitng BB owners. THey need to get their marketing game together, deliver a product (both in hardware and software) that can actually take sales and market share wasy from Android snd iOS. Bottom line, they need to deliver a product that is competitive on all fronts. To simplify, aim the product at the 100% of the market instead of just the 16% of the market you have. is RIM really saysing thaty they can't compete toe to toe with Apple and Android, or are they just scared to?

If they don't get everything right the first time, well, look where the Palm Pre, and WebOS are right onw.

The BB10 phones should have been out in Q1 of this year. They are. seemingly like every RIM product, way late. If BB10 does fail (and by extension RIM), this will be the major reason, the failure to deliver compelling products in a timely manner.

Two of the big gun Android phones have launched already (HTC One X and Samsung Galaxy S III). There are a couple of more coming (RAZR HD, a quad core LG, and maybe the next Galazy Note). This is the environment that the BB10 will be launching into (along with the iPhone 4S, and later the iPhone 5). RIM better get it right; there won't be a second chance.

Closer to this story, take a look at how much press is being generated with iPhone 5 speculation right now. Compare it to the press that BB10 has. The speculation/press is only going to get bigger/louder for the iPhone 5. Outside of the BB oriented sites, very little is bing written for BB10, software or hardware. If the iPhone and BB10 devices launch anywhere near each other, there will be next to no coverage for the BB10 devices. I don't want it to be that way, but that is the way it will be. First, there will be coverage of the announcement. Then there will be coverage of people being unable to pre-order iPhone 5s because they pre-order system breaking down due to the volume of orders. Then they next stories will focus on the huge lineups at the Apple stores and at the carriers' locations along with the inability to activate, again because of the volume sold. this has been the pattern for the last few iPhone launches, and it will be the pattern for the next iPhone launch. Where does RIM fit in? Will there even be much coverage of the BB10 launch or devices?

Kostas

F*** APPLE & iOS. I'm down with RIM & BlackBerry. I got the 9900, PlayBook, BlackBerry Music Getaway, backup 9700. IM ALL BLACKBERRY BABY! Let's keep it rolling!!

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you
2b1ask1

Was a little hype for a second! RIM had their developers conference before Apple, therefore I believe their phone should come out before Apple's. Just like in the case of Samsung Galaxy S3 and iPhone 5 rumors. As long as the specs are there, and they are offering the consumer what they want. I don't think it really makes a difference if it comes out before or after... People will want what they want. It just puts RIM in a better spotlight if they can market it, and get it out before the competition. It shows commitment and innovation.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you
2b1ask1

Solo- I am with you on that!! I don't care which comes out first, my money belongs to BB10. My loyality belongs to BlackBerry!
BlackBerry forever apple NEVER...

Have you ever tried iOS yet? Don't say anything about iOS if you haven't. I'm a jumpshipper from BB (I used 9860) to iPhone. I had experience with iOS which don't exist in BB. And I will never look back.
I don't say BB is bad. Just saying that iOS offers much fun experience and you can see the proof from the market.

you have a terrific web page with great news and opinions about Blackberries, which i love. I currently have an iphone but i am eagerly waiting for bb10. Having said this, i think you and your colleagues should be more objective and stop disguising facts. you only say positive things about blackberry and try to put down other phones. I blackberry succeeds it should be by their own merits without help from pages like these bashing on other brands. just saying

Ummm Crackberry is one of the very few sites that don't bash other other brands. There are plenty of sites out there that only post negative things about RIM and Crackberry does a great job of going through the good and the bad.

It's true. I often get yelled at by our readers for being too harsh on RIM/BlackBerry. We're always rooting for BlackBerry to succeed, but we're not blind to the bad stuff, and we always address it.

That said... I did take a deuce on an iPad once.

Crappad

yeah that ipad post was disappointing, that thing is amazing. What i mean is that saying that blackberry only need to make a better blackberry is for the people waiting for one is completely misleading, i mean its a competition in which RIM is far behind and need to step up. If the iphone 5 is released before i think it will be a huge blow for blackberry because contracts are signed so we need at least announcements for bb10 devices and dates and all features and specs, etc before iphone 5 release so people know what to expect and to convince non bb users to switch.

I will say that I think the new BB10 phone needs to be officially announced before the iphone 5 comes out. If not, what will deter people from buying the iphone 5?

massive malware outbreak, thieves waiting out in line at apple stores ready to grab the phone, zombies, a fire in every single store, occupy closing the streets... LOL

Just saying, anything could happen to cause a disruption, maybe even a massive power outage in the malls/surrounding area on that apple day.

I will challenge you on that one Kevin. Have you seen RIM's stock price today? Under $10 and hit the lowest point in 8 1/2 years. You can't turn a blind eye to that.

Look at SONY, their stocks are lowest in SONY's lifetime.
Why does people keep dreading on RIM.
Media make people see and read what they are paid for.
Common RIM throw few thousand dollars to big media makers and they will start praising RIM.
.
Same old dirty game.

I disagree...i actually think you're too nice on RIM. When the first touchscreens came out, you didn't call them on it nor when they continuously underspec'd all the devices. The Bold 9000 was the last phone that was deserved of a well produced phone (and the Bold 9900 which should have come out a year after the bold 9000).

I'm not sure what website you've been reading but the operators of this website do NOT disguise facts as you call it.

Some members here might make a wild or biased claim form now and then but the people here are pretty good at taking care of that.

You want to talk disguising facts and putting down phones?

Maybe you're confusing that you think Crackberry does with what, oh....most other websites and media do with Blackberry and RIM in general.

Thanks for your well wishes towards BB10 though. We all share your sentiments :)

Hey, Taxitai, (hope I got that right )
We,the loyal members of Crackberry Nation, are constantly banging on other brands and users.
Why?
I don't know if you have noticed, but the users of other brands are constantly coming here to bash away at us, at BlackBerry, at everything. And, they don't do it well either. The level of their discourse makes grade school children look wise beyond their years.
Also, the media is always bashing away at BlackBerry with false, erroneous and downright disrespectful 'reportage'.
So, we appreciate your being here, we respect your intelligent feedback, but forgive us our bunker mentality, because we are in a bunker. We are proudly BlackBerry. We will fight to the last man.
So, if you feel caught in the crossfire...Sorry...

so what you're saying is that just because they do it you should all do it too? I was a blackberry user all my life and I've always received shit for my phone. I could not care less what other people think its a personal phone so why talk about other brands if you are happy with yours? simple as that.

blackberry's aim is for people to have a better PHONE not a better BLACKBERRY .... relying only on fanboys is not their objective obviously...

I could not agree more!
And please RIM: "For people who get sh!t done", "people who do" and "tools not toys" are so poor, ridiculous and negative mantras. They only remind people that BB's are boring and old fashioned, I doubt they drag any user of other platforms in.
And as for now, people on iphones and androids do a lot more.
Please release BB10 soon, do not worry about iphone 5.
BTW, I am out to see if I buy a 16 GB playbook.

I agree, although it sounds good in theory to use the "Get Sh!t Done", many people *DO* use their phones productively whether it be iPhone or Android or Windows or BB.

The slogan should be completely different than what we expect and play on people's EMOTIONS. Apple sold phones on emotion and popularity and coolness factor.

Blackberry Cool... that's what we need. Blackberry hip. We need some commercials with cool music and artists using their BB10 to mix music, play games, have fun, watch movies and video chat.

It's *NOT* that BB10 allows you do "work" and "do".... That should be EXPECTED from Blackberry already. That's exactly what made them mundate and boring, like your accountant. :-)

We need to ANNOUNCE TO THE WORLD that BB10 is now Blackberry with fun and play! Blackberry power and productivity, BUT also a fun cool side. A Party Side!

IMAGE THIS COMMERCIAL/THEME:

Blackberry breaking out of it's shell. A geek/nerd who always was good at math and science, but with zits. Now he graduated high school, got into University, shaved and acne cleared up... got a new haircut, bought some cool clothes... Now he is the PARTY ANIMAL, cool and hip, got the moves and fun!!! That's BB10's transformation!

I totally agree with you!!! BB10 NEEDS to be "Cool" Everyone I talk to think that Blackberry is the same old phone it once was. I have the 9900 and simple love it, its so much better then the 8520 I once had, but people don't see it that way, to them they're both outdated Blackberrys. People have no clue that the BB10 is even coming, they need to show why its the best phone out there and why its better, till then, the balls in RIMMs court.

Negative mantra, trash talking, chirping, trolling.. its all anybody does these days ....

Apple's whole marketing campaign against windows was nothing BUT this...

if anything RIM is modeling whats worked....

That said, they are cheesy one liners for sure...kinda like :If you don't have an iPhone, well... you don't have an iPhone"... Arg somebody hit that guy...

I don't think it will matter if it launches before or after iPhone 5. Just as long as it doesn't launch in the same couple of weeks. It certainly isn't going to outsell the iPhone as was written, but we don't want it to be unnoticed because of iPhone 5.

There lies the issue. If BB10 has to compete with iPhone 5 for coverage by blogger/reviewers then its message/impact will be diluted.

Just think of all of the media coverage if it was released today. Although I guess it would be competing against the S3 for coverage.

Kevin, RIM needs to get the BB10 phone out before the iPhone 5 launch and it needs to be basically "perfect". Timing is critical. In fact timing is everything!! RIM needs to show that it can innovate and execute. RIM cannot show either quality if the launching it after the iPhone 5.

It really doesn't matter because people who have been waiting for BB10 will get the phone whether the iphone 5 is out or not. And the same goes for all the isheep of the world that drool over the slightest upgrade from their last phone

I think it's more an issue of people who are undecided, the ones on the fence. A lot of them might go to whichever comes out first just because it's there. I'm not saying it would make or break BB10, but it certainly couldn't hurt to bring in as many people as possible, and if they find out they like the platform, they'll tell their friends and relatives, and so on. Of course, if Apple does only a marginal upgrade like last time, the whole thing would be moot.

I agree, at the two ends of the spectrum, you have those that will go the way they want to...taking it from the Five F's perspective, RIM has Family and Friends, who are going to support them through mostly anything. On the other end, they have the Fighters and the Foes who are going to go against them despite almost anything...but then you have the majority, the Fence Sitters. These are the folks that RIM has to get a decent handle on and do a decent job with. I think for these people, timing is going to be really important...but out of the other side of my mouth, I'll say that timing relevant to the iPhone 5 is not what is going to make or break BB10, its going to be the execution...hitting the mark with the people that do...

first off you have no clue what the phone buying public knows, secondly RIM's new marketing head will steer the news to inform "98% of the phone buying public"

And you do? Go ask 10 people if they've heard of Blackberry 10 and of those that say 'yes' have them tell you what it is. I guarantee you that 9 out of 10 haven't or can't.

Believe that if you want but it would be better for BB10 to come out before iPhone 5.

People who dont already have Blackberry's now definitely wont be waiting for BB10 if the iPhone 5 come out first.

Right now there is little to NO marketing for BB10 on television or any other Blackberry product for that matter. RIM is considered dead to mainstream folks.

Those who left Blackberry probably left with an OS 4 or 5 device and cant even imagine of coming back because "Blackberrys cant do anything". They've already moved on.

Im a Blackberry fan. I love my 9930, but Im just being honest and realistic.

I totally agree.

I own a 8520 Curve and an iPhone 3GS. I'll switch to a new phone at the end of the year. And I will not buy a BlackBerry. All my friends have iPhones or Android devices, I can't use unique applications of these platforms (like Instagram, Path,...), and even I like a lot my BlackBerry, I can not buy a product expecting that it will have the apps I need in the future. I already have a Playbook, and honestly? Waiting about a year to have a decent native email application in PlayBook left me with bad resentment about RIM.

Big freaking deal, the market is full of idiots like yourself. The shares could fall to $5 and it doesn't effect their financials. The 2.1 billion in cash is worth 2.1 billion whether shares trade at $5,$10 or $20. BB10 development isn't affected by the share price.

I only the poor shareholders care, as a consumer I want. BB10.

The lower it gets the more likely RIM gets bought, which theoretically could mean BB10 doesn't even get released. And just because RIM has cash doesn't mean they wouldn't look at bankruptcy as an option if the stock price gets too low.

Mac So what, the whole market is declining big time today. Why don't you also report that Apple has dropped almost $80 in a month also - with a large drop today? Exspect to see more big declines in most stocks in the coming weeks. I don't know why anyone seems to take pleasure in the misfortunes of any company.

Do you really believe that ONLY Blackberry users "get sh!t done"? I don't think so, but that's a theme that jumps out to me here.

Also, referring to a potential customer base as "sheep" is NOT an enticing message. Do you propose RIM continues to sell only into its installed base?

-CFOT

Are only iUsers creative?

BBs are built for people who want to get things done. The converse, "people who want to get things done use BBs", of course is not necessarily true.

I.e. BBs are not designed to be a toy. But it doesn't mean that you can't use toys to get things done.

Aside from being able to bring the BB10 format to market, I hope RIM is able to release this platform with all 4 major carriers at the same time in the US, unlike the 9900/9930 that saw AT&T wait till November to release the phone... i think I-phone people already know they are going to get an Iphone, I think only people who moved to Iphone because they couldnt get what they wanted out of BB may switch back, and im sure there are a lot of people in the Android market that will switch back to BB if this phone can deliver on the promise...

I want a phone that allows me to get through the day with all of the information that I use through out the day. I left BB for an android because it took so long to get a new bb with specs worth the money...

I want my BB back, but it has to impress me, it has to make me willing to spend 200-300$ for it, the phone im using now I got for free...

this is really and truly the last chance for BB to woo the phone market

The problem with "getting sh!t done" as a marketing slogan is that people are getting things done on iphones (don't own or use any apple products before that gets thrown at me), so unless you shout it in an increasingly shrill tone it doesn't work and it's an unconvincing message to the general public.

Your comment just gave me a couple good ideas...

One of which will be, when BB10 comes out, a side by side comparison of how you can get sh!t done faster on BB (I'm talking about the stuff you do 80% of the time).  

 

That could work but would look like a ripoff of "smoked by windows phone" - my general point is that by saying "getting sh!t done" you create a credibility problem with people already using iphones (and wp7 to an extant) to do what they need to do.

I have no idea what the message should be but it needs to be something (excuse the pun) bold and left-field. Oh and it should never use the word "productivity", it sums up a vision of an accountant.

I actually really like that, but obviously clean it up for television and emphasize the important part: "Do it BETTER"

I think the release of the phone should be preceded by TV commercials with an all black screen. Then white letters pop on the screen to some cool sound effects saying "Do it BETTER". Those words disappear and then white letters "7 Days". End of commercial in less than 10 seconds. Followed by 6 Days, 5, etc. I wouldn't even put a BB logo on the pre-release commercials to: 1) Create some mystery; and 2) Not give people a chance to dismiss it before its released simply bc its a BB and "they're going out of business."

Then each commercial after release can focus on different aspects. Email/Text/BBM/FB/Communicate/Organize/Keep in the Know/etc Better.

Kevin, you could make it semi-scientific by doing the following.

Get a couple dozen of people from various age groups who have had no experience with smartphones. Give them a series of tests and time them. Then interview them afterwards and see what they prefer.

You want WP, iPhone, BB10, and Galaxy SIII in the line up.

The only thing that can screw the Blackberry 10 launch is if they DO NOT have a physical keyboard option available at launch!

One of the major selling features of the blackberry is it physical keyboard. Proof of that is it's flagship Bold 99x0 doing so well. If a BB10 phone launches and it does not have a physical keyboard, the adopters who would have loved to purchase a BB10 phone will end up waiting for that physical keyboard option.

The market analyst, in there infinite brilliance, will not see users waiting for the physical keyboard however and assume instead that one one is interested.

At this moment, RIM is their own worse enemy they need to fight.

They need to make it perform well (as others have said).

They need to have two phone options available... (not everyone wants a virtual keyboard and not everyone wants a physical one either)

And they need to get the word out (MARKETING!) about what BB10 can do!
(As Kevin put it "BlackBerry 10 needs to translate the get sh!t done communication")

How does 'nobody want a virtual keyboard'. Go to a mobile phone store... Touch screen phones dominate the sales. You obviously got your facts wrong. That is why RIM brought touch and type to the 9900.
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you
2b1ask1

be realistic. people who still have Blackberrys these days is because of the KEYBOARD!

If i wanted a full touchscreen phone, I would've dumped my Blackberry a long time ago, like many others. Some people even carry an iPhone AND Blackberry so they can have a keyboard.

Personally, a full touchscreen Blackberry provides no real advantage over any other phone.

I really wish they would release a BB10 phone with the Bold 9900 form factor. The 9900 is THE BEST Blackberry out right now.

And people that don't have Blackberrys these days are because RIM doesn't have a good full touch screen. They're supposed to have a QWERTY BB10 phone in Q1 of next year.

I think you need to calm down and re-read what I wrote.

I said NOT EVERYONE wants a virtual keyboard. I did not state "nobody". If your just trying to pick a flame war I am not interested.

If it was an honest mistake, stuff happens.

My point is, they need to have a choice of a device on launch.

I always find it funny when people on this site and Blackberry fans in general say "Blackberry people do." I got my first Blackberry in 2007. I upgraded and loved Blackberry phones. I was the biggest Blackberry fan I knew. I got the Playbook the day that it released and after that entire debacle of a release, I had had enough. I decided to switch the the Iphone 4s on its release.

It was amazing how much more I enjoyed that phone. What I find funny though is that I'm not doing any more than I was with my Blackberry. On the Blackberry all I did was email and text. The app store was a mess and the apps weren't appealing to me. I still email and text on my iPhone, but now I have apps that I actually like using on my phone.

I am on this site every day and I'm hoping that BB10 is great so that I can take a look at it, but I'm so tired of reading all this "blackberry people do, others don't." Are you all kidding anyone with this? I own my own business and the Blackberry didn't help me be any more productive than the iPhone does. I just am sick of reading all the nonsense about how anyone without a Blackberry "doesn't" do whatever they could be doing with a Blackberry. Does anyone else feel that it's just complete nonsense?

So here's the thing...

If you want the absolute best mobile experience right now, based on what you're saying, you need two devices...

a BlackBerry phone for the best email/text (communications) experience

and a device like the iphone (or a tablet) which is more enjoyable to use and productive in other ways.

what BB 10 is aiming to be is both of those in one.

The best mobile experience? I don't need two devices. My iPhone 4s works just fine. Before that, the blackberry phones worked. Having said that, the Iphone 4s is a much better phone than any of my Blackberry phones.

I know for a fact that my text and email capabilities are exactly like they were before. As long as I can get and receive both of those items, I'm doing my job. I'm running my business and that's all that matters. Again, the "Do and don't" argument isn't really valid to many people.

Now, having said that people like yourself and some of the other die hard BB fans are going to scream "I can get emails out so much faster with my keyboard." and other random statements, but when it comes down to it, if their business production on a day to day basis is measured by their phone they aren't doing a great job anyway. That's just my opinion.

Mac Garbage...the Iphone is not a better phone. I have owned both. Both have their strong points but the Iphone is not a better phone. It's a simpler, almost idiot proof phone, but not better especially in regards to multitasking and phone options.

besides the keyboard, what does BB have over either android or iOS?

Emails are instant for gmail/exchange users on both droids and iPhones. Email on BB IS SHIT. Big messages are truncated & pictures take way too long to load. Both iOS and Android handle emails much better.

iMessage or texts work just as well as BBM. BBM is almost useless now since most peoples bbm contacts have dwindled. I went from over 60 bbm contacts to less than 10 when i finally switched off.

BB phones are not for people who "Do". Their for people who do nothing but call/email/text.

Android/iOS are for the masses (the sheep u love to call) AND for people who are actually productive. I run my own business too. I can check my CCTV on both my iPhone and droid. I can check all my banking info on my phones too. I can do all my accounting (Quickbooks); etc.
It's pathetic that BB doesn't even hv apps for the major banks.

And to top it off the 9930 has shit battery life. Worse than my iPhone or razr maxx. BB ruined the best thing about the Bold line, which was the insane battery life of the 97xx.

Mac I totally disagree with you. I've been the BlackBerry - Android - Iphone route and I went back to BlackBerry. The Android OS was very quirky and the Iphone was poor for multitasking and that whole Itunes syncing thing drove me nuts with it's almost daily updates. I guess I am one of those people that still prefer the physical keyboard. On my Torch I have that option (or touchscreen). There are more reasons why I still prefer BB phones, but I will leave it at that. So yes there still are us "Blackberry people." As far as Apps go Appworld has all Apps I will ever need or want on a phone.

I completely agree with this. I also got the BB because I was under the impression that this phone is the only device that could handle email/text really well. So, I gave up my iPhone for the BB. What a waste of time (and money)! It did nothing more than what my iPhone already did. Hell, at least my iPhone did it in a more appealing way.

I'm also sick and tired of these egotistical BB users who think that BB's market is for the superior businessmen of the "new century". If your phone does what all the other phones do in the current market, but does it in a less appealing way, then your phone isn't really worthy to be in the market.

It's also funny to read some of the comments on this site targeting the iPhone users who apparently fell in Apple's superior marketing ploy. Y'all did the same thing with BB when you thought this phone was only for the business savvy. Psych 101: If companies provide a product that they think you might find useful, they've already got your "soul", no matter what platform you're on.

I hear what you are saying. iPhones can do the same things etc etc. For me, I feel like the email experience is so much faster and easier and that is what helps me get things done faster. I have gone back and forth multiple times and every time I find I get more stuff done on my Bold and that really makes a huge difference to me.

I believed RIM should release BB10 a few months a head of an Iphone launch because if an Iphone get out first, consumers will go straight with an Iphone and since Iphone has a good reputation they never consider BB10. BB10 must have heavy commercial compare and contrast with other smart phones. Take the BB10 to the public areas and challenge on the street to anyone that thinks their smart phone is better than BB10. I think this is the only way RIM cans regain their trust.

Yeah, I agree completely. I also think iOS is the competitor that BlackBerry is least in direct competition with, because of a very different targeted user base. I personally am more worried about Windows 8 since they have a similar productivity and social connectedness emphasis.

...like that joke about the two guys being chased by a bear...
"I don't have to outrun the bear, all I have to do is outrun YOU!"

Agreed, Windows 8 is directly going after Blackberry's pie.

I've gone to a mobile event by microsoft in the past and they made this one line:

"Why would you want to pay extra to have someone else manage your communication on a server"

They were trying to say Exchange can do it all...

Well after that statement, you know who they are coming after.

(Add that to the fact, Windows 8 is pretty nice to develop for - but I am a windows developer by nature, so I'm a bit bias)

I attended Windows 8 developers camp and they have
1. better market penetration
2. Backward compatibility (not 100%)
3. Cloud storage, server management, better Policy system, descent security.
4. BYOD ready.
5. Application development in different computer languages which provide equal and fair capabilities to use device.
6. Lot of free training camps and free SDK and tools to help develop apps.
7. Vast developer community and forums to assist development and general help on web apps to native apps.
8. Less learning curve and easy to port existing app on windows 8.
.....
don't think I am windows fanboy....
Apple is like a luck cold air breeze, it will pass away and people will forget iStuff.
Windows is real contender for future.
RIM must think and act now to stand against Windows and upcoming family of OS's.

Since the original iPhone came out the BB share of the mobile market has taken a nose dive. With each new iPhone BB sales continue to plummet. So why should the release of the iPhone 5 be any different. BB10 won't make much if any difference at all. It may get a few BB users with RIM but the BB's days are numbered. Just look at RIM's market value since 2008. Down 90%.

BB isn't a threat to Apple at the moment, but things can change. Actually, we should say that Apple is becoming less a threat to Samsung who seem to be running away with world wide smart phone sales. Samsung is clearly leading the pack and is the one all others are chasing based on last quarters sales figures.

Kevin, you're right and I've been thinking the same thing for quite some time. Those who blindly say that BB10 needs to launch first, just aren't putting out any convincing arguments. I would say they're partially correct if RIM did zero marketing prior to launch. But I'm assuming that there will be a global and unprecedented BB10 campaign; the likes we've never seen before.

It's just so hard to fight "stupid" though.

I think Iphone customers/ fans are probably not the natrual BB target customers.
I beleive that Windows 8 is the real threat to BB10 in terms of productivity and RIM needs to differiniate itself more from them as much as poosible

Windows 8 is definitely a bigger threat - most of the apps I use that are a requirement of my job only work on iOS and Android but have recently started adding support for Windows Phone... 0 of them have an app for BlackBerry and 0 have mentioned BlackBerry 10 support in their roadmap as the number of IT professionals using a BlackBerry has spiraled down into the floor. (ConnectWise Mobile, LabTech Mobile, etc...).

I currently am using an iPhone because it works best for my job but I am super interested in Windows 8 too.

"The iPhone 5 will be a better iPhone. Not a better BlackBerry."

The new full touchscreen, new rootable, insecure OS built on a new platform, that's completely redesigned is going to feel any more like a BlackBerry than an iPhone? lol.

A bigger iPhone will encourage business users who complain about the size of the keyboard on the current iPhone. This will increase the erosion of RIM's base.

An iPhone to the average consumer is a super product and blackberry 'will never be better' so I think RIM should release it earlier and have some good marketing to prove the average consumer wrong

I've been a Blackberry user and supporter for several years and I think my 9930 is the best damn phone I've ever owned. That being said I believe that RIM must get the launch of BB10 right, the device needs to be perfect and marketing has to be right on target. I also believe that it would be an advantage to release before the new iphone. Maybe it's not necessary but it sure would be nice to have the arena to ourselves for a while. RIM needs to make a big splash. I'm as big a Blackberry fan as anybody here, but Blackberry is close to becoming irrelevant

Agreed. . .a month and change diffidence between the two release dates would at best give a very small sales edge to RIM and at worst make RIM lose an insignificantly small bit more of market share. . .Make it a great phone and it will all work out. . .(hopefully. . .)

Why does Apple insist on putting out a new iPhone every 6 months? Every time they put out a new one an older generation of this phone loses support. I'd rather be a BB user.

You should do a little research before making a pointless comment saying something that is not true. The launch time between two iPhone generations is 12 months, which is completely acceptable. And an iPhone from two years ago still receives updates and new versions of IOS (not getting all the new features, true, but still getting updates).

RIM gave me a Curve 8520, in 2011, with OS 5.0 and no OS updates to receive. I also have an iPhone 3GS, running iOS 5.

Guess what phone I use more.

Have to agree. RIM on their own schedule. Not that I believe it, but if Apple thinks it's only way of snuffing BB10 is by just releasing their phone first then they really have started running out of ideas in their lofty perch.

That being said, it's more like that Apple will do their own things just as RIM will. But should BB10 comes out after the iPhone 5 and makes big enough waves Apple will have to react. And that will be the best position RIM could be in going forward.

PRICE

I know the PlayBook was suppose to be a platform to help RIM with their new OS. I hope that they learned that right now only Apple can demand a premium for their devices. Unless they have something that consumers "must have", the new devices had better be priced less that what RIM has been accustomed to pricing their new devices at.

I'd actually argue that BlackBerry 10 would be better off if the iPhone were released first. Everyone knows an iPhone will be coming and if BlackBerry 10 releases first, many people will wait for the iPhone details. Also, the rumors before the new iPhone releases will have people overly hyped about features that may not be real. People may hold off on buying BB10 based on those rumors, but once the real specs are announced for the iPhone, peoeple may decide that the new BB is worth a shot.

the real problem with iphone launch will be the massive attention it will draw to it from the media and thefore the potential customers.
the thing RIM really needs is some "quite time zone" which will enable the BB10 maketing campagin to be effective.

This post makes some good points. But I'm not sure the conclusions are 100% correct. If BB10 is primarily aimed at Blackberry users, there are issues with that.

First of all, the percentage of smartphone users that are Blackberry users is diminishing. So, they're aiming for a shrinking market?

Second, some of those Blackberry users are not fanboys and, by October, will be more open to whatever hits stores first. Making the potential number of buyers even less.

Third, a lot of Blackberry's present customers have low end models because they're in economically challenged markets. Many of those are unlikely to jump on BB10 at the ouset, when RIM needs a lot of buyers.

Fourth, if they primarily go after present BB owners, RIM is shrinking their own market. Some present owners aren't going to leap on the BB10 bandwagon for any of a number of reasons. Not being upgrade eligible, no money, or being satisfied with the phone they have are several.

And, fifth, Marketing 101 or Business 101 always says to go for fresh customers. You're always going to have some repeat buyers. But, if you don't focus on adding new customers, you limit yourself to a dwindling marketshare. That holds true for RIM, Apple, Chrysler, Dell, whoever.

I beg to differ!! RIM should release bb10 before the new model of the iphone comes out. Unlike Europe, most people in the US sign 2 year contracts and thinking that blackberry has enough focus to command most people other than blackberry fans to either wait or break a contract for a bb10 device , is just not realistic.

It is imperative that RIM, first, makes a device that is trully competitive in today's market and two, that this device is introduced before the iphone given that the Blackberry brand is seen as obsolete nowadays. If bb10 indeed happens to be "great," then people will second guess upgrading or singing a new contract. But as it stands right now, most people are either waiting for the new galaxy phone or the iphone. Not Blackberry 10.

I've been reading you for a while and I know you're more of a glass half full when it comes to RIM (vs bgr who's a glass is 3/4ths empty and has a crack when it comes to RIM) but i'm going to have to call you on the borderline hypocrisy of this paragraph:

"More critical than when BlackBerry 10 launches, be it before or after the iPhone 5, is that it delivers a great user experience to the people RIM is building it for. As RIM said at BlackBerry World last month, they are building BlackBerry 10 for BlackBerry People. It's not a phone for sheep. It's a phone for people who do. "

Calling iPhone users sheep is the cool thing to do by those not using it. I'll concede that, and that isn't where my issue lies. To try to frame the situation like the Crackberry nation aren't sheep of a much smaller herd is ludicrous. What RIM is doing, and what your championing is what got RIM in this situation in the first place (a situation I'm sure their stock holders and probably exec management wouldn't want them to be in). What is that specifically? Potentially building BB10 for users of BB#(replace the # with any version you'd like) which you have tried to label as the people who "do" but would equally be correct with 'sheep who will never leave'.

If RIM was a little boutique phone shop, that might fly as they wouldn't need the volume as they have had the margins (Vertu anyone?) but that is not what RIM wants to be and couldn't if they tried (if I missed the release when they said they did, I apologize).

You are right they don't have to best the iPhone or Android, or even WP7, but they have to at least show they can keep up in some respects. To do this they have to acknowledge (if only internally, what the other parties are doing right). Eventually the other 3 (with regards to physical keyboards, maybe only MS and Android) will become good enough to be considered a viable option in the enterprise. Then what?

There are more people leaving their BBs for the other 3 than vice versa. It's not because they are sheep. They were willing to sacrifice some of what BB did great for what the others might do good in exchange for something the others did great that BB didn't do at all. Nokia learned this lesson the hard way. RIM doesn't have to.

For the TLDR crowd:
I've had 16 phones in 5 years and 5 were BBs (9000, 9650,9630, storm, 9930). If RIM is really designing the BB10 for BB users and not concerning themselves with what the competitors have done and/or why their users use those devices and not BBs, I feel sorry for RIM because BGR, the pessimist on all things RIM, would have been the only one who called it right.

I also think it is petty and small minded to resort to calling the competition names just because they have you licked all the way to the bank.
I also have to (violently) disagree that in this business, the iphone can be remotely be taken lightly considering how much the thing
a) hogs the limelight in the entire tech space and news in months leading to a release, on release, and months thereafter,
b) It sells in preorders alone what BB sells in an entire quarter,
c) every iteration outsells the previous model, (in other words sets new records)
d) carriers always aggressively market it,
e) iOS controls what is taken as the norm in smartphones and BlackBerry is seen as a platform in dire straits.
So the inconvenient truth is that the release date of the next Iphone matters a GREAT deal. It must be recognised as the disruptive influence it WILL BE on the traction of BB10 and plans made that factor this in.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that you can say "It doesn't matter if the iPhone 5 is available before BlackBerry 10". I mean, I'm not surprised really since it seems no matter what RIM does, Crackberry will reason with what they did and think positive of whatever situation.

This is clearly just Kevin looking at the glass half full on RIM's expected later than the iPhone 5 release for the BB10.

I know I will not switch the iPhone and Android isn't even in the question, but there are many, many, many people with Blackberry's, especially USA customers, that will be switching to iPhone if the iPhone 5 is released first. People who have optional upgrades coming up and are eager to get rid of their old device will more than likely get the best device that is out at the time. Hope it won't be the iPhone 5 and I don't know all this for sure but I'm being realistic and logical. Blackberry gets a lot of negative media exposure and People may go to iPhone simply because Blackberry is a dying brand.

I agree with you Kevin with what you wrote a few posts above mine:

"a BlackBerry phone for the best email/text (communications) experience and a device like the iphone (or a tablet) which is more enjoyable to use and productive in other ways."

However... I believe RIM is the superior communications device because of their STELLAR keyboards, but if the first BB10 device is all touch, it will lose points in that dept and the iPhone will trump any all-touch BB10 device - that's just common sense though.

One sad thing too is that a lot of Blackberry users that aren't addicts like us don't even know much about BB10 or they vaguely know about it. Kind of a catch 22 for RIM, if they start advertising BB10, people will be pumped for it and the public will know and be aware of it, but sales on other devices until the release will be brutal.

I'm cheering for RIM to succeed but like many others said. Timing IS crucial - for both existing BB customers and customers of Android and Apple.

Let's hope they get them out sooner rather than later and we need to stop trying to reason with RIM's bad decisions and timing.

I know I'm switching back to BB when 10 hits from the iphone 4. I'm so tired of the "open app, cl hit button to close app routine". I know a coworker who used to have a Storm who switched to Android and is considering going back to BB once 10 hits as well. We both want a "Do" phone with great battery life. We have tablets and don't necessarily "need" all the extra fluff. We can use our tablets for that consumption nonsense/time-wasting content.

I also hope the BB10 battery life is remarkable. I have a Bold 9900 and the battery life is terrible. Thought it was just mine but everyone I know with the same phone always complain about it too. It's 2012, you'd think battery life would be mastered by now.

That is the main complaint from my Android friends is the battery life is terrible. Then again my iphone 4 battery life is awful too. At 7 pm after a new charge I'm at 20% on AT&T. I know my Verizon friend gets much better battery life so I'm sure part of is a coverage issue. It's all irrelevant though in the Blackberry world since you get 3+ days. Of course I'm not expecting 3+ days with BB10 but better than 1 day.

Bottom line: I want to access email/calendar/contacts/twitter/facebook/gps/music (spotify) fast and without a speed compromise. That's all I really use. If BB10 gives me this and doesn't make me wait between actions I'll be ecstatic.

I already use my Playbook 50% (ESPN3 / Amazon Prime / corporate email) of the time and Ipad the other 50%. That's pretty impressive for a "failure" of a device. I even use it as a secondary PC at work with HDMI out to an LCD monitor with a bluetooth mouse/keyboard over Citrix Receiver. If I can do this as well with my phone? Awesome!

"It's all irrelevant though in the Blackberry world since you get 3+ days"??? Hahahahaha not even close. After 6 or 7 pm I'll be at around 20% after moderate use. Definitely won't get through a day with moderate use and apps in the background closed and screen dimmed.

On BB you are at 20% not even a day? Goodness..With my Pearl and even my Storm I at least got 2 days battery life on Verizon.

And that's using the phone a LOT but not going to youtube or streaming music all day. BBM/text/email/occasional browsing...connected to BES.

That's the catch though..the more media you use on it these days the faster that battery life goes. What I don't like about the iphone is how I can only be using Mail, Twitter, Contacts yet I get the feeling it's doing a zillion other things that I don't want it to do thats tanking my battery. Every app is probably phoning home non stop.

He isn't the only one. On my bold 9900 I get abysmal battery life, more like battery dead by 2pm after an overnight charge with moderate usage.

This isn't just a fluke, actually on my 3rd 9900 as i kept swapping devices hoping to get one with decent battery life. Blame RIM for shoving a tiny battery in their flagship OS7 BB.

Mac Yea, I know several people who are using Iphones now (who previously owned a BB) who are eagerly awaiting the release of BB10 and considering go back if BB10 is going to be all that it is cracked up go be. How good BB10 is, coupled with good marketing, could potentially result in a large market share shift for RIM.

No interest here in an iPhone whatsoever. Have an iPod touch and that was enough of an iOS fix for me. I would take a BB 7 phone any day over the latest and greatest iPhone. So when BB 10 comes out, stand back!

It does matter when BB10 comes out because the on the fence people will make the switch. Hard core BB users it does not matter

I think it would be a good idea if RIM released the BB10 device after Apple released the iPhone 5, this would give RIM a chance size up Apple and leap frog them with their next device.

As far as hardware goes, both devices would have that 100% locked in at this point as it takes months to get supply chains in gear and assembly ramped up to launch a new device, so there would be no way for RIM to leapfrog the iPhone 6 (cause people really need to stop calling it the 5 because the 5th generation iPhone is the 4s).

Software also takes time to write and there is no way some slapped together in a few weeks app would trump anything on the iPhone 6. Plus, we will likely get a preview of iOS 6 at WWDC anyway, so RIM will know exactly what is in the pipeline from apple. We've already seen the next iPhone hardware to, and we know the fist BB 10 phone will have same or slightly larger sized screen and higher resolution. We KNOW BB 10 will support LTE, we do not know that about the next iPhone. We also KNOW BB 10 will support NFC and that's another likely but not yet confirmed iPhone feature. Otherwise hardware will likely be pretty close, but iPhone 6 will almost certainly mop the floor with the BB 10 phone when it comes to camera performance. The new Camera UI is pretty awesome in BB 10 but I would not count on RIM putting a great camera module in there.

So iPhone 6 will have it's million apps, and be an evolutionary device but the new screen alone will sell it, along with Siri out of Beta and the new Maps app. Those changes alone will make it the best selling iPhone in history, especially since allot of iPhone users passed on the 4s because it was just not enough of an upgrade and yet it still sold like hotcakes.

BB 10 will have to really get the EXPERIENCE right and steal a page or two from Microsoft and get trained reps in stores to show people how to use it and do a blitz tour ala Smoked By Windows Phone to get people on the streets to try it and see it and spread the word of mouth.

Really, I'm with Kevin, it doesn't matter if iPhone 6 launches first. BB 10 either stands on its own or RIM falls. But it wouldn't hurt if RIM can't make it to market before the iPhone 6 that they launched a HUGE marketing campaign letting everyone know it's right around the corner. But I really hope they can get out in October.

Yes... it was done to put the "BB10 into the shadow of an iPhone".. BB10 photo in the background... not a side by side comparison. BB10 phone is big.

Yeah BB10 will make it or not on its own. Apple is not really going to matter any more on this release than on others.

What RIM needs to do is to improve battery life on their phones! I know I know these are smartphones but wouldn't you agree that at the end of the day it all comes down to which phone will last at least a day..

Just 2c of mine, I think Asia's market is still a huge open market for RIM. More and more people are shifting to data than just voice&text service here which is good for Blackberry as connection here sucks (I'm not talking about small country but tech-giants like Japan or South Korea, but countries like Indonesia, India, Malaysia, China, etc). With it's centralized servers, it can speed up a bit of the connection here (though I haven't done any proper research about it, just based on my own usage comparison when using Blackberry and other phones). Because up until recently only Blackberry that have special data plan with all mobile operators here in Indonesia (which means if you use other brand you will be charged with normal price, while using blackberry you can get unlimited per month plan).
I say if RIM want to get more sales for their BB 10, they need to put more attention to Asia's market share. We don't have subsidized Iphones or Samsung or HTC or anything here (in Indonesia), it's a fair market for all.

Rumor has it the newest iPhone is going to have a physical keyboard...It's gonna be REVOLUTIONARY!!!! ;)

I strongly disagree. It matters, a lot. I've worked in cell phone stores for almost 20 years and whenever a new top of the line product comes out, there is an initial rush of people who want the newest model. I've seen this happen from Motorola Elites and StarTacs right up to the iPhone 4S. If the iPhone 5 hits the shelves first, huge numbers of potential BB10 customers will buy the newest iPhone during the initial sales period. Most will sign for 3 years and take the rebates offered to them. Once they do that, no matter how good the BB10 may be, the fact that they used their rebates on another model means they will be lost to RIM until they can get rebates again.
So RIM better burn plenty of midnight oil and get BB10 done right and in stores before those other people get their new toy launched.

Only Canadians are insane enough to allow and actually sign THREE year contracts. And Canadians will still buy BB 10 more then anyone no matter when it launches because we still buy ALL BlackBerry phones in large numbers because RIM is Canadian.

The people who will rush to buy iPhone 6 (please people it is not the 5th generation and WON'T be called iPhone 5 so let the name go - apple went with 4s for the 5) are APPLE people who would rush to buy it no matter when it launched. They are loyal to the platform already and won't switch unless BlackBerry 12 really wows them and has succeeded in becoming the unchallenged 3rd ecosystem with 500 000 apps in app world. They wouldn't touch BB 10 if you paid them.

Plus Samsung is busting it's nut early in the traditional iPhone launch time. So they will already have racked up 8 or 9 million sales by the time BB 10 launches.

Nokia will also have something around iPhone 6 with Windows Phone 8 on it and if people like Windows 8 it will have momentum, if they don't, then it's dead in the water.

I've been in wireless a long time to and what I've learned about early adopters of any wireless phone is that they are the ones who've got their minds made up and are not likely to be swayed from their decision. It's the people on the fence and the former blackberry users who remember BlackBerry fondly that RIM needs to win.

Blackberry 10 will be the alternative high end phone for people who are now bored of the same old ios and the over crowed droid patform. RIM just needs to keep it simple with 2 or 3 good soild phones and deliver what is promised with this os. If they do that and learn abit from apples marketing ie everybody knows what the iphone is and what it can do even if their not into phones! If RIM do all that then BB10 will get them back on track and back 2 the top over the next few years.

As much as I would like to agree with the topic, I think that it can spell out disaster for RIM. I am an iphone user ready to switch over to the BB10, so I'm not trying to bash RIM. But the problem I see is that cell phones are way over priced to begin, regardless if it's iPhone, Android or Blackberry. So what does most people do? They lock themselves into a contract. So think about it, if iPhone does come out before BB10, people would just end up locking themselves into the iPhone contract with their carriers. This will then eliminate a good chunk of potential BB10 converts. So while I agree, that BB10 will probably and most likely be a more superior phone, release date will be an impact to RIM. Yes they will sell to others as well, but an initial slow release will hurt sales and then back to the same thing with the PB where no one really gave it much of a chance since people already dumped a whole lot of cash for their ipads. So I'm hoping it'll be release soon, I'm ready to dump my iphone and my contract expires soon, so I'm hoping for some good choices when it's up, I really don't want to go to android if possible, and I simply just got bored of the iphone.

I was going to post about contracts myself until I saw your post, as I was surprised no one had mentioned it, including Kevin in the editorial. However, I see the opposite effect. the people that are locked into contracts won't be renewing regardless of when the devices launch. Other contracts won't expire until both devices are available. Unless your contract is expired now or will expire soon and you wait for the new phones, or unless your contract expires in the window between the product launches, it doesn't matter which one comes first. I think most contracts will end after the both phones are out, as many times phones are purchased as holiday gifts. I think contracts make the "first to launch" less important, not more important.

RIM either needs to come out well before the iPhone is announced, at least a few weeks, or a couple weeks after it is released, because in the time in between Apple will be getting all the free press that they want from media outlets that have to say great things about Apple or they will not receive and invite to the next event! What's funny is I think that Samsung, and the GS3 are more of a threat to Apple and the iPhone than BB10 is, and I think BB10 is more of a threat to Android as a whole than iPhone is to Android. iPhone users better hope that GS3 sales in the US don't destroy iPhone sales because that will likely be the end of the premium subsidy that Apple enjoys as carriers will say why do we pay Apple way more when this phone is selling better and getting more sales.

It is also funny to see all these previous "hard core" Blackberry users who like to dump here every chance they get. Their iPhone 4S is way better than the a three year old Bold 9000 could ever hope to be. Yes we Blackberry users at Crackberry are all delusional so just accept it, move on, and STFU!

First time post and a interesting question to think about. In the end, I don't think it really matters if BB10 come out before or after the iPhone5. It will come out this year and then market forces will tell us the rest.

When you look at the current Smart Phone, there are two fundamental elements, that being the communication and the mobile computer side. On the communication side, the BB has always been stronger than the iPhone and I don't see this changing all that much. Where the iPhone shines is in mobile computing. Wonderful form factor and the app store is excellent.

When you look at buying trends, it is clear that the average consumer is more interested in mobile computing than a communication device. The opposite is true for business types like myself who email, BBM, etc. constantly. I don't think anything I have said is revelational.

So then what will BB10 do? I think it is fairly safe to say that the mobile computing side will get a whole lot stronger and will resemble the experience that one gets from the playbook. That is good news. This will make the BB smartphones more competitive in the consumer oriented market. However, given the competitive nature of the market place, it will be a hard slog for RIM although not impossible as some people seem to suggest.

What I would like people to consider is whether there is a third dimension to the smart phone we have yet to considered and perhaps a company like RIM maybe working on. The NFC technology comes to mind. Of particular interest are the many ways that NFC might allow me to ditch the ID/credit cards in my wallet along with my house/car/work keys. This technology would require a higher level of security, a strength of RIM. So maybe 3-5 years, this third dimension might be a real selling point for RIM products. Other things come to mind but I won't belabour the point.

As to Apple, they have been and always will be a consumer driven company and the iPhone is a wonderful product. However, Apple is not without its problems. There has been a decided lack of iPhone innovation for 18 months. Perhaps, when you got a good thing going, it is best not to change things. But, Apple lags on the hardware side and there are increasing questions as to whether their current iOS is up to the next generation of applications. Similar concerns with the iPAD.

So back to the original question, does it matter when BB10 comes out. No not really. If RIM improves its mobile computing side (yes, of course it will), keeps its commununication strengths and then starts to push new smart phone technologies, then BB10 will be well received. Markets like tech companies with a eye to the future and if RIM can create that impression, the future will brighten.

"On the communication side, the BB has always been stronger than the iPhone and I don't see this changing all that much"--I always get confused when I read something like this by many BB users. What does BB have that the iPhone already doesn't have? Email? The way iPhone handles emails is far more superior than the way BB handles emails. And this is coming from a person that's used all platforms (BB, Android, iOS, etc.). Just because BB explicitly targets the "business" market doesn't mean that the other phones don't do that same or that they don't do it better. And now, with the introduction of iMessage, you don't really need BBM.

Also, I'd rather read my emails in a more appealing way than plain text; and I'd actually like my emails to render the images vs lagging behind. Let's face it: The "business" argument is baseless. There's nothing more a BB does that another smartphone on another platform can't already do or can't already do it better.

Well, I would disagree with your statement. Emailing on an iPhone is akin to a waterboarding experience. Same with iMessage. Like it or not, you need a physical keyboard until such time the virtual keyboard get better. Maybe when as the phones better incorporate the larger screens, this will change but not for now.

I do agree with you, actions speak louder than words. Do you want to know the exact number of emails I have received from an iPhone that exceed one cryptic sentence (since 2007)? The number is two. End of story.

Look, I get it. iPhone users are sheep, blah blah. It's true. The iPhone's success has little do with product quality and more to do with amazing marketing. It's fine for CrackBerry forum people and even BlackBerry users in the wild to refer to them as such, but it is fatal for RIM (through PR, advertisements, etc) to refer to them like that. Insulting potential buyers isn't going to help. In the same way, for CB to call them that, well, any iPhone user that walked in to read this article is going to be instantly offended, and may be turned away. Make it a positive spin: "do you want to get things done faster? Use a BlackBerry 10 device!" You don't even have to put down their iPhone experience, and tell them it's slow. Just tell them BB10 will be faster. And then show them how.

Kevin,

I personally believe that one VERY important key to BB10's success at launch is to have "WORKING" Demo's in all stores!!! Not a month or two later but "AT LAUNCH"...

This was Sooo frustrating for me when i wanted to try the 9900 or the 9560 which I ended up buying, but Nobody had a working demo... How could somebody possibly know how good it is at the Point of Sale without being wowed by a working demo.

Come on RIM don't blow this one.

Doesn't make any difference,...

iPhone have their fan-boys, and BlackBerry too... and the users who are waiting the most on BB10 won't even consider a new iPhone until a brand new UI is released from Apple...

fanboys don't make/break a company. Android & iOS is increasing market share by a ton. BB is losing market share. So that 77 million users is going to DECREASE if they don't do something drastic.

Sound mind,Sound body.
this is awesome that iPHONE 5 well available early than all others and second to none those Andorid system can gives some advantages. But BB 10 is another story. People talk about that too much and see nothing, so there go, RIM has only one chance or very little time to give more confidence to those guys who still stay with him. Come on, give fix time as well as fixed function which shall be truly rock!!!

What's really the difference of “people who do things” to iphone users? .... I ask because blackberry was a few months ago relying to the keyboard “who can write a 1000 emails on a touchscreen ” ,which is lame because they are planning to release a touchscreen themselves. Besides that they can't rely on email anymore because every other platform got the same feature, so that makes me wonder... What makes RIM think they can manipulate people with that “blackberry is for people who want things done " when they know dem well, what they have to offer is nothing compared with what you can really do with Android and apple... Which is the same (email, text, call, instant messaging ) besides that, you just can't do nothing else with bb. I really don't get what makes them so special, but let's see what explanation got some fans in here?

People who do things do pull the battery out of their phone constantly because it's unresponsive again and doing nothing.

On a serious note, I am very interested as well. I know that it is not possible to do my job without either an iOS or Android phone. Actually, I think you can now with a Windows phone as well. It is a requirement of my job to log time on the tickets I am working on through an app, and also all of our clients configuration and password data is stored in another app.

Just my example of someone who cannot do their job with a BlackBerry - no companies care about BlackBerry and don't write apps for that platform. It's a waste of resources since such a small amount of do'ers use BlackBerry for serious work and as a developer, writing apps for BlackBerry traditionally has been nothing short of a nightmare.

What I am ultimately interested in, is why anyone here is excited for a new full touchscreen device that uses an unsecure, rootable, new and unfamiliar operating system?

First, newer Blackberry devices don't require constant battery pulls and are very stable. But since you obviously don't use them, you wouldn't know that.

Second, QNX Neutrino used in the Playbook OS has a FIPS approved cryptographic kernel, and RIM is currently in the process of getting a newer version approved (probably the BB10 version). The ability to root the OS was killed off in newer versions of the code. Dingleberry now relies on downgrading the software to a version that had the flaw to be able to root the OS.

What I am ultimately interested in is why someone who obviously has not used a Blackberry recently, and has no interest in using one, would hang around a Blackberry enthusiast site to write negative things about Blackberry and RIM? It seams to be a mental condition that is spreading to more and more people of questionable character in the world as BB10 gets closer to being a reality and the number of people with this mental condition make their presence known on Crackberry.

You know a lot about me for someone who I don't know. Are you a spy?

To correct some of your misinformation and poor assumptions... I own all current BlackBerry handsets and the PlayBook.

Perhaps I only have all of the defective handsets as they do require battery pulls. A lot less than older models, that is inarguable, however, you do still need to battery pull them.

One of the requirements of writing apps for BlackBerry (as I have been for more than half a decade) is to test them out before releasing them! Well, I actually suppose it's not a requirement, but I think it would be foolish to release an app having only tested it on some of the handsets or only in a simulator (yikes!).

You folks with 5 BBM contacts and one email make these silly assumptions. In my country where BBM is the prime selling driver of Blackberry devices, having up to 150 BBM contacts and being in 2-3 BBM groups is the norm. And this makes the poorly optimized BBOS hourglass and lag even on Flagship OS7 models like the 9900 and 9810.

Even Kevin (or was it Chris) admitted the other day to lots of folks on twitter complain about freezes and hourglasses. That's what many of us suffer through. Cut the condescending crap and do some more research.

PS: IMHO, the people who write overwhelmingly positive stuff about RIM and Blackberry and cheer on all the boneheaded moves by RIM are the ones who have helped do more damage to RIM than anyone else. BB users were doing battery pulls in OS5...you sheep didn't complain loud enough so we all got stuck with battery pulls in OS6.

That insecure, rootable OS you talk about has 50% market share, so yes consumers do in fact want full touch devices for that type of OS. Very few consumers are looking for secure non-rootable OS (at the moment), but if the enterprise market still wants one, it'll be there.

yeah, the dev alpha is bigger than the 4S, but ip5 is supposed to be bigger than the 4S. Howbig? I don't know...

Personally I don't think it really matters when BB10 is released because iphone diehards are just not going to go to BlackBerry. At least not right away. There are some main things that RIM needs to do to make it a successful launch.

1. Have great promotion/ advertising BEFORE and AFTER the release of BB10.
2. It will have to have the top secs or the masses will simply just shoot it down.
3. The apps have to be there. There is no way around this one I don't think. This seems to be all that people care about these days and it is one of the main reasons people are abandoning BlackBerry.
4. The battery has to last the whole day no matter how hard you use the phone
5. The keyboard is going to have to work as good as it looked at BlackBerry World. It just needs to be the best typing experience hands down to truly be a BlackBerry.

I'm sure the list could go on but without these things I don't think RIM has a chance anymore. That being said I am one of the biggest BlackBerry fans and will be the first to line up to get the BB10 device.

RIM, you need to ROCK AND ROLL THIS LAUNCH!!!!

Torch 9860, Playbook

I've had BB's for several years and have sung their praises during that time. My current contract is up in September. I will pick a new phone and once again be sattled with a 2 year contract. (I am not rich enough to buy every new phone that comes out like some.) Sorry to say it, but right now I am leaning towards an iPhone. The BB is tired. BB AppWorld is pathetic.

To me, it makes a huge difference which is released first (iPhone 5 or BB10). If iPhone is first, that's it. I'm jumping ship. If BB10 is first, I will take a serious, hard look.

All said and done, I still think if RIM can release BB10 "before" the latest iPhone it would be better ....

Sorry Kevin but this whole post has only invoked an emotional response to an emotional topic. Truth be told, and as much as i love my blackberry, we will never know the true results until 10 is out. I really want Rim to succeed in this, and i think they will but what i think is not the issue. The danger here is with great antipaction of 10 to come out, so has our expectation as risen very high. We have to tread very carefully cus if, and i say a big if, Rim does not deliver there will be hugh disppointment with alot of berry users, which could result in further erodsion of the blackberry user base. QNX IS THE BETTER OS but only real berry users understand this. The general consumer does not care for this, other then to have a great experience with their device. And they are the ones RIM needs to reach with 10.

The simple fact that Rim has over 70 million users globally, and full support of govt and countries, i belive they will not fail, but we have to also be reslistic with the outcome. Like most of us here I'm in it with Rim for the long haul in this cus i believe qnx is the future of mobile. I also believe ios and andriod will face growing pains in the futre when they try and rewrite their os for true multitasking; how will all those half a billion apps going to work; how will andriod further cope to continuing fragmentation which will add to it when google tried to rewrite its os. True multitasking is going to be essential as global users contiunally migrate to the mobile devices and demand more of their devices. It is in our nature to always want more to what we already have.

Peace

Timing is important, very important for BB10.

For a couple of reasons, and one of them is not for people deciding between iphone5 and BB10.

First reason, is they need to get this out ASAP just so the company can potentially survive. I am a BB fan for sure, but you are naive if you think BB isn't teetering on being insolvent. They need the revenue, even if its not profit, they need money coming in to pay bills and spend money on advertisements etc. This next quarter and likely the next two are going to be blood baths. There is just no motivation for any new customer to BB to buy a BB7 phone, any BB fans who can upgrade certainly wont be before BB10. Yes, overseas they may have revenue coming in, however they are bleeding money faster than they are making it.

The second reason, and this one is going to somewhat contradict the first one. BB CANNOT WIN in the shadow of a new iphone. No matter how good the product is. Apple is a fashion statement at this point, people buy it because everyone else does, whether they have a need for it or whether its the best product or not. Apple is a pop culture icon, like it or not. They need to either get to market 3-4 weeks BEFORE iphone, or they should seriously consider waiting 3-4 weeks after the whole initial iphone craze is over. They will get buried if they come out the same week or maybe even the same month as iphone.

Good luck BB, I hope you get this right

We all know RIM is hemorraging (sp??) North American users at an alarming rate. The last straw IMO is this generation of phones. If the I5 releases first and and is exponentially better than the BB10 (which although not "out" we will have a sense of the bells and whistles by Oct) then many of us will switch to Iphone or whatever else might be out there. I think that's pretty mcuh fact and has happened generation after generation. The gap is getting way to big for the rest of the "not-as-hardcore fanboy as Kevin but still had brand loyalty" crowd to ignore any longer. So yes, BB10 NEEDS to launch before Aaple...at least to get us on the platform and using it. If Iphone 5 drops first and meets our needs, we will probably never pick up a BB10.

I believe that the success of BB10 phones is dependent on how complete and how polished they are at launch, RIM generally makes good quality hardware, so if the operating system is what we all hope it will be with the important apps available at launch on a 4 inch touchscreen product it will succeed. Also I believe apple are not making a four inch iphone this time around but just releasing a same again upgrade for about the fifth time this will help the sales of BB10 and Android phones, even Apple fan boys must be getting sick of buying the same phone over and over again. The iphone as been a great product but you can only release it so many times before people realise they may be being milked.

It has to focus around communication first and foremost. Apps, although important, are not what RIM should focus on. The convenience and execution of the mail application, bbm, text, social apps etc. and how it integrates with the OS is what I'm looking at when the next blackberry comes out. Like how it's already been mentioned before, Blackberries are for people that "do".

Such nonsense. Another post defending RIM's inability of using its abilities.

It is simple, people who use iOS also get things done, they just get things done without using a BB. A lot of BB users don't do ish, they just happen to have a blackberry.

If someone gets locked into a 2 year contract with Apple and his friends have apple he may never reconsider again. What RIM needs to do is not only beat Apple to the punch but beat them at their own game.Look at RIm's past commercials, they are so stupid and forgettable. Some guys riding a bike, BE BOLD, wah wah wah, 9/10 RIM commercials suck and this is coming from a BB user.

Here is what Apple does, they take a feature that works and you use, they show you using it. It sticks. DONE

People don't have conversations with Siri like that old man and then go about their day like SIRI is a friend and people don't take pictures of children and flowers and balloons with their ipads. But Apple makes you feel that way.

RIM needs to be bold, not only release a phone on time and bug free(when did it become acceptable to have a BB that was just full of bugs and slow load times and just eat that terrible experience), that is what the standard should be.

Their commercials need to be as bold as their phones. Show someone turning their phone on and typing an email or two then leave to the bus. In the BG it can say,1 7 seconds for the phone to boot on, 15 seconds to type an error free email to the boss, 5 seconds to take and send a pic to friends, but it only took one moment to meet with loved ones. (this is where it shows him kissing a girl while he gets on the bus, or shows him using wikithing to tell her something, just something.

And then they get on the bus.The bottom line is iphone5 doesn't have to be a better phone than the BB10 it might just get perceived as one. It is time to alter the status quo and shake up peoples perceptions and oh yeah, have a tie in with the Dark Knight Rises.

This is somewhate germaine to the conversation and I get it this is Crackberry.com, it's pro-BB, which is cool. I am pro-BB too. That being said I couldn't deal with my Bold9650 anymore, and couldn't wait for BB10 to launch, I went and bought the new HTC EVO4G, and in all honesty, the phone is amazing. It is what BB10 hopefully will be.

I like this site a lot, not so much for the commentary, but just information about phones in general. And agin I get this is a pro-bb site, however the author of this article seems to think that the better product will win between BB10 and Iphone 5, and thats crazy thought. That in all honesty is exactly the type of thinking that has BB where they are now. IRight or wrong its not about the best product all of the time, its about the bells and whistles that make people attracted to your product. Things that are on the original iphone STILL are not on current BBs. I get it BB has 78 million subscribers, however with their sales being in the dump (especially in the US) how many of those 78 million will buy another BB?

Things could get substansially worse for BB in the coming months. People with BBs who contracts are up really since the first of the year until BB10 launches either buy a BB that cannot compete with iphone, or droids, OR buy an iphone or droid, or keep their current BB with hopes of BB10 coming out soon. How many NON business custoemrs are going to wait around? Some may, certainly some readers of this site, will but how about the average joe with no real brand loyalty, chances are they are out, and thats another 2 years they have to wait if they dont want to pay out the nose for a new phone.

"like a voice control Siri type app.."

With the AT&T Watson running on the QNX connected Porsche, I would not rule this out - but not holding my breath either.

I must disagree somewhat, alot of the ipone craze was driving by one person and that was Steve Jobs. I admit that I am brand loyal to blackberry simply cus I stick with what works for me which is the blackbery. I have admired Steve since the days of Lisa and Next, and he was the heart and soul of apple. He was the heart and soul of apple products, to the point that it premeated out of its products. With him gone, Apple is just another gaint faceless corporation. So the question really is, " how long you gonna wear them white nikes till you will want to switch to something else.
Peace

anyone who says apps aren't important doesn't get it. That is exaclty what is important. It has nothing to do with how great the product is, and how amazing the UI is. Apps sell phones point blank.

How many downloads of Angry birds has there been? How many of those downloads came from a BB phone. None. Not one.

BB may be for people who get ish done, but that is clearly NOT what the average consumer needs or even wants. Unless I am a busniess customer why is the secureness of a BB important, it's not. Or well the consumer doesn't think it is, so it's not. BB preaches about security which is all fine and well, there is certainly some people who will be drawn to the security of a BB, but most don't buy a new phone with security as the biggest reason. Most peoples phones are for fun, or to make calls and communicate, and apps are as a big as a reason as any.

If BB were smart, they would make a clear change, BB for Business, and BB Consumer. They could still have their bread and butter secuirty for business customers, and then have fun, phones for the consumer.

Actually, since BB10 is going to also be ported to the Playbook, if it is ready before the BB10 phone is ready for release, it would be a great teaser to release it to the Playbook first to generate excitement.

That would be a disaster guys. RIM needs the phones out now. No delays. RIM has suggested the PlayBook will see BB10 a few months after the phones arrive. That's the right strategy.

Kevin, I think RIM should save its loyal customers from moving out rather than trying to attract new ones. The main issue is not to loose the loyal people going to apple/andriod/windows.

I think the whole notion that BB can put out a better product and the product will sell itself is dated. Unless you are someone who lives under a rock and has never had anyone tell you anything good, bad or, indifferent about either phone and you use them both and decide BB is better, then you likely already have predetermined opinion of both products. BB's reputation has gone through the ringer, some of it their fault some of it not. However if you ask 1000 people which phone they intend to buy next even if those 1000 people have never used either phone likely iphone wins in a landslide.

I hope RIM doesn't drag BB10 out too much longer. I don't necessarily think they need to be out before the next iphone, but they can't be waiting until December 31st either. I personally am getting a little bored with my iPhone after having a 3gs, 4 and 4S. I will definately have my eye on BB10 this year. I am a little concerned that they are delaying the BB10 phones with physical keyboards. The die-hard Berry users I know are still hanging on to them because of the physical keyboards. No matter which phone I choose this year, I don't want to see RIM fail.

This is a pretty ignorant post by Kevin. I don't mean to sound like an ass, maybe he just doesn't have a high business acumen but how can he not see why it makes a difference how long it takes, especially in comparison to the hottest competition?

To put it simply, RIMs biggest enemy right now is the jump-ship. By that I mean the people who are jumping ship from blackberry to android/iphone. They are suffering no growth in the markets that matter most. Now if the iPhone were to come out before the BB10 phone, you know where expiring contracts are going to go? You know where people eligible for an upgrade will go? You guessed it. Every day longer it takes is a day where people jumped ship to another brand. And every day longer it takes is another day of mindshare lost for the brand of Blackberry.

It seems like every other day someone is giving me their new phone number or telling me they got an iphone and don't use bbm anymore. Irrelevance is a stage blackberry is at right now. The next stage is oblivion. The longer you wait the closer you get to that stage. Every time the competition release another new hot device your expiry date just got closer. That's just the reality of the situation. They have not one mountain to climb but 20 mountains stacked up on top of each other. This is no time for delusions. I'm not saying they should rush out a shitty product, because that's instant failure, but at the same time it's important to understand that as time ticks on, things are undeniably getting worse. Do they have to be out before the next iphone? No. Will it hurt them if they aren't? Definitely. Goes without saying.

Exactly, their goal should be to steal the thunder of the iphone.

Imagine if their release parties swapped sides.

Apple released 3-5 versions of the same phone and just said something like, the new Apple 1355. It has 7MB more RAM and no flash. Also introducing the Apple 1355.5 it has 14MB more RAM and flash. Riddled with bugs, and no real apps out for it yet.
To be released tomorrow but actually comes out in September 6th and the carriers do not drop the price for it for 2 years even though other comprable Android phones are selling for 29 dollars months later.

I just don't see, how RIM can release slightly baked phones after the iphone and expect to float.

THEY NEED to release this phone before back to school and well before the Xmas holiday, so people can get them for Black Friday and other shopping gift times.

In all seriousness, the smartphone release RIM (or at least Crackberry devotees) needs to be concerned about, besides BB 10 OS obviously, is Windows Phone 8 OS (i.e. Apollo), not the iPhone 5. Actually, RIM needs to be concerned about the release of Windows 8, which I think will spur sales of Windows Phone 8 devices.

I agree that WP8 has more corporate appeal than the other competition, but WP8 will have a hard time cracking the top 3. Yes, RIM is still in 2nd place.

My current mobiles are Android Galaxy Nexus (personal) & for work a Windows Phone 7.5 Nokia Lumia 8oo & Blackberry Playbook.
Before that my work & play phones were both Blackberrys & I hope to switch at least one of them back if 10 lives up to my expectations.
IOS & BB7.1 are both very outdated compared to wp7 & ICS but I can't see apple making any radical changes where at least RIM now see there problems & are working towards a solution so lets just hope it's not too late for them. IOS on the other hand reminds me of where BB was 2 to 3 years ago, showing it's age but looking at it's profits & market share as it's justification to stand still & watch the other platforms sail by.

I think I know why Apple is taking so long to make iPhone5...it looks stupid with a big screen and grid of apps.

In this picture BB10 looks hot.

RIM needs to make a an incredibly better experience on the BB10 than any other phones on the market right now. The need to focus on the apps, multitasking, most efficient keyboard experience, solid communication, great high ppi screen, great audio, HDMI out, fast graphics and processing, "flow", etc. Many features that are already in the playbook. They need to do this really well and at a good price.

They need to get back into the market and first and foremost stop the bleeding, begin turning the ship around, and keep the the improvements coming even after launch. PB needs to see the upgrade right away as well.

RIM, if it wants to survive, can no longer afford to sit on its laurels. It needs to continually keep moving forward and innovating if it wants to eventually regain its position in the market.

If a Blackberry is released in the forest and no one is left to hear it, does it make a sound? Here's my point: I have a Blackberry that needs to be replaced. I'm not about to buy a BB7 device when a few months from now I'll have co-workers and friends sporting BB10 devices 90 days later. So I hold out for a new one... but what happens if my device dies in 60 days, and BB10 is 30 days late? Maybe 60 days... I'm gonna say screw it and buy an iPhone. Better to get a phone I know works, has all the latest features, and does enough of what I want to do. And then you have me locked in a 3 year contract and RIM has to wait 3 years to get me back.

That's why the market is on RIM's case. They totally blew BB10 by announcing it WAY too early, jacked up expectations, and killed their own BB7 sales. Who wants a BB7 with a BB10 around the corner? But if I give up before you release, you may lose me, and my company if I decide to change everyone for contractual reasons.

Previously, for instant, there was no native email feature in playbook OS 1.0 and not simcard slot for internet, then OS 2.0 offers native email feature, and upcoming PB is going to have the simcard slot in the playbook. I know it could be RIM strategy not to give out everything at one go but that has proven and caused the market share dropped, many unsold playbook in the warehouse (until they decided to give out for free to devs), etc because other devices could offer what people need.

We all have seen some BB10 features in the Keynote video. I believe there are more to be revealed later. But, i hope it wont ended up like what happen to playbook OS1.0.

For BB10, hopefully there is no more battery pull out, no more slow booting, faster processing, added-in memory optimizer, added-in app like tinycontroller, silent camera feature, support android app (maybe?), last but not least, go for latest hardware stuffs. Make it as all-in-1 smartphones phone for blackberry people. Don't be stingy to offer everything in the first run. Don't make people wait and compare.

Timing is everything. If RIM can get it out 3-4 weeks b4 the new iPhone hits, then that will be great. But if it comes out in the shadow of the iLaunch, then it's an epic fail. Yeah, die hards will still get it, but John Q will be swayed by media types.

I miss my BB. I wish I could come back. Need more apps....

RIM MUST GET BB10 out before the iPhone 5. It is crucial. Last year when the 9900 launched, there was no Ads, no hype or anything about the launching of BB7. When the iPhone 4S launched a couple weeks later there was a massive hype, commercials, pre-order, and results. RIM has to advertise and hype up people for its launches. The 4S basically has a new camera and faster modem, yet people still waited in lines and bought it. Even though I don't have a BB anymore, I still love em, but their hardware issues, battery pulls, app-less environment pushed me away. Its honestly a real buzzkill when everyone around you is playing Draw Something on their touchscreen and you have RIM's flagship touchscreen device and all you can do is stare and watch. RIM needs to step it up for their launch. Hype EVERYONE up (not just BB users) and blow them away. Right now everyone thinks RIM is dead and the general public doesn't know about BB10. Change that!

Roles are reversed folks! Apple will release a ho-hum iPhone 5 and RIM will release an innovative new BB10 device which will be revolutionary :) Believe it!

We don't have to dream much. We can see how good the PlayBook is, plus all things BlackBerry, plus all the new surprises RIM has up their sleeves. I love the fact that they're looking at how to improve the UI to support one handed operation. For me, that attitude spells success.

"It's not a phone for sheep. It's a phone for people who do." and that the blackberry is for people who want to "get sh!t done" is really getting stale and is a turn off....Is that really the battle cry that RIM and blackberry enthusiasts are going with?

I've been using Blackberries since 2004 going from a BB 62xx > BB 77xx > BB 72xx > Bold 9000 > Bold 9700 > Torch 9800 > iPhone 4s along with a 32GB Playbook and an iPad.

Who's fault is it that a long time Blackberry user in myself jumped ship to an iPhone that I will likely be using for a couple of years at least? Believe it or not, I still "get sh!t done" using an iPhone as my day to day business phone. The only thing I miss are the custom profiles from a Blackberry. THE ONLY THING. If that makes me an "iSheep" then so be it. It's not going to make me buy a BB10 phone any faster with these stupid mantras and juvenile comments.

For sh!ts and giggles I put my sim into my Torch 9800 this past weekend. Like an old girlfriend, I remembered why I broke up with the 9800 in the first place. It felt slow and dated. I'm glad RIM is moving on to a QNX based platform. Should have been there 2 years ago.

Bottom line, BB10 needs to get out the door before the next iPhone. Anyone sitting on the fence for their next device around that time will get caught up in the Apple hype and choose an iPhone - a mature, established, and proven product. No one will question you if you buy an iPhone. You may raise eyebrows going with a version 1 BB10 smartphone.

And that's the thing...let's not forget that BB10 will be a version 1 OS with likely fewer apps than any other smartphone OS platform available today. It's going to be an uphill battle for RIM. One that they can't give any additional advantage to Apple on if they get the iPhone 5 out first.

I just hope that RIM doesn't blow it on BB10. I'd love to come back to the platform *only* if it makes sense to do so.

Hi, first post from sunny Australia (biggest iphone saturated market). Just wanted to post a couple of observations.

Kevin does not speak for the company so please dont construed his opinion as company strategy. Now, as a non BB user but RIM shareholder I am very worried about the situation, mostly because the press are heartless bastards that love to see someone fall over. When all is said and done and if RIM fails they will come out with their bleeding hearts and how sorry they feel for all involved and what a tragedy it is. Shorters will drive the price as low as possible which will compound the problem further and current and potential customers will be increasingly nervous as to the future of the company.

I am not a BB user, ex iphone 3GS and current Samsung Galaxy II. I also work in information security for financial institutions mostly, and BB is only just holding on by a thread. Sentiment is changing and it is getting harder to sell the blackberry security story going forward. Users want to be productive and have options and IT Management want to "enable" and not hinder.
RIM needs to compete head on within the likes of IOS and Android for the consumer market BUT provide the enablement for business users. If you think BB10 should be marketed for BB users alone then I should just sell my shares now and take the losses.

People are fickle and loyalty to brands is diminishing in a world where we all want it now. I will happily switch to BB10 if it stacks up to Andoid. I hate iphones and see them as devices for people whom don’t/ cant think for themselves and need everything in a nice neat package.

I am excited to see BB10 aka QNX. BTW I liked the idea about getting rid of the BBx brand and going for something fresh and hip. Anyway, RIM needs to deliver LTE/HSDPA Tablets and competitive consumer business aware phones in order to survive. The number one reason I think RIM must and will survive is because Apple has no competition out there for a proprietary device on OEM software and that is the differentiator between Android and QNX. OEM is consistent, repeatable, and manageable and development costs should decrease as newer models get delivered. I think most importantly much quicker time to market across multiple carriers and countries as telcos do not need to customise anything to match the underlying hardware devices. I had to wait almost a year to get an update via Telstra (AU telco) for ICE on Galaxy II.
Go the Berry!

I have a Samsung Galaxy Nexus. I have tons of free and paid apps. The phone is amazing. So I have one very simple question. Why would I want a BB10 device? Why? What can it do for me that my current Nexus or a 4S can't?

Well apparently, according to this article and others that I've read here, you want a BB10 device because you "can't get sh1t done" with the Nexus or 4S that you currently have.

/sarcasm

I come to this site because I'm a Blackberry fan and would like to see RIM succeed but the rhetoric is clouding many people's judgement here to the point of being delusional.

I really hope Thorsten's RIM can pull a rabbit out of the hat because that's the very question that they should answer. Why would one take a chance on a version 1 BB10 device instead of already established brands elsewhere?

" As RIM said at BlackBerry World last month, they are building BlackBerry 10 for BlackBerry People. It's not a phone for sheep. It's a phone for people who do."

The only hope for Blackberry is that they are not buying into this myth that blackberry gets anything done anybetter than the other platforms becuase it doesnt. While Blackberry has stood still for three years all the other platforms have cought up and passed by Rim's ancient operating system. BB10 better be compelling to everyone. Those who have stuck with Blackberry becuase they have convinced themselves that they cant be productive with anything else are nothing but fan boys.

this article is well written and hits the nail on the head. what's important with the release of the first BB 10 device, is that it is a complete BB experience. there is no point rushing it to the market before the iphone 5 hits and releasing something which is not complete. better to take the extra time needed to make the phone the most complete Blackberry experience possible.
from seeing the preview of the BB alpha device on a few videos around the internet, i know that the new keyboard has the potential to be great and i have already started imagining how much that is going to increase my typing speed and prowess. it's quite possible that i will go for my next BB device being all touch screen...if the keyboard is done right. that is the single most powerful element of every single smartphone blackberry ever made and the reason why consumers (who are heavy emailer users) so love the blackberry as their main phones.
so long as RIM and blackberry continue with such great innovations in the mobile technological world, i see no reason for me to ever have a phone that isn't a blackberry.

BB10 will fail not because its a bad OS.

In fact QNX is one of the best OS i have ever used on a mobile device. Its fun to interact with. Its smooth, etc....

The reason BB10 will fail is lack of apps. Its just not remotely possible that they can release BB10 and have an app eco system even close to what iOS or android has.

In fact, i would be surprised if they even match Windows Phones App store.

Now im not hating on BBs, but its going to be tough for them to pull out of this one. BB10 devices should have been here already.

how would iphone5 not affect blackberry 10 launch? YES it will VERY much so affect Blackberry. Why do you think so many people have moved to iphone from a blackberry. Due to Blackberry horrible marketing and strategies to gaining the peoples interests in a phone and easy to use controls on the phone. I love my Blackberry Torch 9850. But not having your star player in the game 7 playoffs will affect your winning chances. so how will blackberry not be affected by an early iphone 5 launch? who you fooling? and i hate iphones ipods and itouches.

i think blackberry is done. All big corporations have moved to the iPhone, sad but true. That was the one thing that blackberry had over all other competitors was the business aspect but people have left it for apple. if the apple iPhone 5 comes out before blackberry 10 their gonna be in a rude awakening . the iPhone is far more superior than the blackberry and if u guys don't think so look around

I think in making assessments about RIM's future, objectivity has often been the missing ingredient. I'm pretty sure that when BB10 launches, it'll be a great OS with a rather innovative UI and enough good apps. But I believe that in many of the predictions of the BB10 OS and comparisons, too much emphasis is placed on BB10's new UI and how it's more current and communication-oriented than the competition. As a non-corporate former user of virtually all the major mobile platforms including BB, I can honestly say that communication in terms of email and calendar (including exchange), facebook, twitter, messengers etc has never been a cumbersome experience for me on any platform. Only different. They all offer very good experience in most departments and some simply do great. And with millions of users having already invested a lot of money in either iOS or Android Apps, and gotten used to the OSs they're using today, it will require a miracle for RIM to turn this around. However, I do hope that RIM proves me wrong. I've alway had a soft spot for BBs.

It doesn't bother me. I just want a full baked BB10 phones w/o bugs. So the shares is now below $10, I don't have stock shares with RIM or any other company. I believe RIM still has the ability to release it. Despite all the negatives they encounter. Will bb10 cut it, in my opinion "NO" but it would surely slice a significant amount of pie against Apple & Android phones. However time is ticking, the longer we waits, the more ppl would look for another alternatives. And when they do, they will be bond for another couple of years in contract. Unless they are die hard Bb fans, willing to spend more money just to make the switch.

RIM bring it on, release the Titans, already..!!! eh!

FACT:
New iPhone models come out just because every 22-24 months many folks are eligible to upgrade phones on their network contract.
If there is no new model number then nobody upgrades.

BB's are different.
Many BB users have fully working older models that work fine.
RIM requires BB service plans on their BB phones, that is how they make money.

Damn that 4 inch iPhone 5 screen is lookin' hella sexy right now. Still.. Blackberry all the way. Don't mess this up RIM. Get it out before the iPhone 5

Makes no difference who comes out first Iphone5 or BB10. The only people who will buy the new phones are the ones whos contract is due. Here in Canada we have 3 yr plans so i don't think to many people are going to switch after 1 yr.
Myself my plan isn't due until May 2013, i'm not to pay a penalty for early upgrade.
I will wait until both come out and see what apps they have and suits my everyday life.
Read that "security isn't important",Its becoming electronic transfering data, we are going to pay with our mobile phone in the near future, so you want the security on your phone, because if you loose it,it feels you just gave everyone your personal banking to someone.

Like it is stated above, I too think it's a positive thing that non BB users are excited about OS10, like myself. Over the past 3 years I've used them all, and I mean all.., just to find the perfect device for myself as an advanced user and I ended up using the HTC Desire (Android), fully rooted and always flashed the latest OS on my device, overclocking the hell out of it and so on and so on, ya'll get the picture.

Why am I using this device now for almost 2 years? That's because untill now imo I didn't saw a huge difference in every phone that has been revealed that makes sense for an upgrade.

Untill now every one of them just focused on non-major multi-tasking and non-major different aspects of socializing experience/UI and hardware. What I mean by saying this is like, someone created a "smartphone", ow that's cool, let's make it more attractive and more tweaks and stuff, but that's small-time shit, it's becoming very boring! For example, we already have a Playstation for that, pffssh!! So what! you know..
As a mather of fact with my rooted HTC Desire I could/still can do everything what the devices of these days can do (hardware-wise and especially software-wise) so that's why I didn't upgraded.. And yes.. Here it comes... Untill now!

Finally someone has awaken and feels me, and yup... That's RIM! I am going to be honest that I didn't saw this coming from RIM but that's ok, I always follow the market and I always want what's best for me, meaning that I'm always open for new stuff.

I believe that they are going to take this smartphone world to a whole different level, and the benefits of QNX it's just unbelievable sweet and superior! Like Alec Saunders said "We’re a new way of thinking about what a smartphone is. We’re going to take the smartphone back to a communication device, not something you sit around and watch movies with." Now that's what I call some serious thinking and taking this world by the balls! You need balls of steel to have the courage and stand up to say something like that and to make it happen and I F***ING respect that! I get the feeling that RIM is about to make a device like the way I want it to be.

I HOPE RIM's value will work out positive because I believe that OS10 is going to be a gamechanger! Just the way I want!