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< >

Facebook to acquire WhatsApp for $16 billion

By Bla1ze on 19 Feb 2014 05:29 pm EST
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If you're a WhatsApp user, you may be interested in knowing that Facebook has now entered into agreements to purchase WhatsApp for a reported $16 billion. According to documents filed with SEC, the financial details will break down like this, $4 billion in cash and approximately $12 billion worth of Facebook shares. The agreement also provides for an additional $3 billion in restricted stock units to be granted to WhatsApp’s founders and employees that will vest over four years subsequent to closing.

Jan Koum, WhatsApp co-founder and CEO, said, “WhatsApp's extremely high user engagement and rapid growth are driven by the simple, powerful and instantaneous messaging capabilities we provide. We're excited and honored to partner with Mark and Facebook as we continue to bring our product to more people around the world.”

Additionally, Jan Koum will join the Facebook Board of Directors and and WhatsApp’s core messaging product and Facebook’s existing Messenger app will continue to operate as standalone applications. The deal is of course subject to approval but should it not work out, Facebook has agreed to pay WhatsApp a fee of $1 billion in cash and to issue to WhatsApp a number of shares of Facebook’s Class A common stock equal to $1 billion.

By WhatsApp count, over 450 million people are using the service each month and 70% of those people are active on a given day so knowing now that Facebook will be behind the operations, does that make you reconsider its use? I've honestly never used WhatsApp for any amount of time, it's always been BBM for me but some folks are fickle about who provides their services.

337 comments

Kevin Michaluk

Insanity!

Kinda makes me angry. We were extremely vocal about BlackBerry taking BBM multi-platform YEARS ago, long before WhatsApp even had 50 users.  It's a good lesson. Servicing user needs is more important than protecting your ego. The demand was there big time for an all-platform messenger. BBM had it done. WhatsApp copied them feature by feature over the years. Heck, the first versions of WhatsApp were SO bare bones compared to where BBM was at when WhatsApp launched.  But WhatsApp's lack of features compared to BBM at launch didn't compare to what WhatsApp provided.... basic cross platform messaging that wasn't SMS reliant. 

$16 Billion is just crazy money though. Facebook could have bought BB for that a few times over. Makes Instagram look like a STEAL, too. 16 Instagrams or 1 WhatsApp. And $16 Billion just seems like too big of a pay day for an app that systematically ripped off BBM feature for feature. I mean, shame on BBM for not going multi-platform sooner as they should have. But shame on the world for being so bat shit out of whack. 

mnc76

Huge news both strategically (in the IM space) and for the 16 billion purchase price!!

But still most analysts are valuing BBM at $0... Maybe this will finally change some minds.

BlackBerry needs to double their BBM efforts to keep up now. Whatsapp with facebook's $$ is even more of a competitor now.

Posted via CB10

IJKBB10

BlackBerry is late to everything. Way too late to the cross platform market as Kevin mentioned because they were protecting their ego! And of course it shows with their market share now.

$16B is just crazy! I can understand maybe $10B

Posted via CB10 with my BB z30

inurear

Please consider:

If BBM cross platform came before BB10, the failure of BB10 would have been blamed on BBM cross platform, rendering BlackBerry even more worthless particularly because BBM wouldn't have been generating revenue in time for the launch of BB10.

And it would be a clear scapegoat to "why BB10 failed"
Understandably... they would have diminished Whatsapp's market share, but their overall value would be obscured because BlackBerry is a phone company and it has no money.

Alternatively, Leaving it "late" allows BlackBerry to fish in some investment dollars (especially with proof that it is worth while) which in turn saves the handset business. Only now with BBM being distinguished separately from BlackBerry, investors can foresee potential future with it either through re-sale (Google may want to bid for it) or flat out enterprising - which Whatsapp or anything Facebook is miles away from and Chen seems keen on.

Remember, It's easy to see value of anything in retrospect, but, when BlackBerry had market share there is just not enough to justify giving away your differentiating asset of your money-making product to the competition.

bbschorsch

And believe me there a lot of people out there trying everything to avoid Facebook - they will leave WhatsApp.

It's BlackBerry 's turn to tell them if you want safe cross platform conversations - go for BBM!

Posted via CB10

abwan11

I agree, I'm one who has avoided Facebook, Bbm and blackberry should clarify privacy/security for concerned users. I don't want to be a commodity.

Posted via CB10

kordog1

Yes and Facebook and BBM are probably at opposite sides of the spectrum in terms of user. This may force the dichotomy into more obvious extremes with Facebook seemingly about marketing/docial openness and BBM being about business/security.
That is optimistic thinking though.

Posted via CB10

canuckbear

Agreed. One stands for privacy and security the other is George Orwell's 1984

Posted via CB10

qmendiv

I'm using this HT on Twitter: #WhatsAppZucksNow and #BBM4ALL

canuckbear

+100000000

Posted via CB10

kraidx

Yep this deal will mean more data gathering from Facebook.

Not happy with all the intrusion to users privacy they will get to add instant phone numbers to their rank.

Posted via CB10

BBMINI

True. I've never used FB and I deleted WA soon after installing it and watching it creep through my contacts to automatically "connect" me to other WA users. Awful. FB + WA = privacy nightmare to me.
Check out: http://forums.crackberry.com/blackberry-bold-9930-9900-f235/whatsapp-per...

salsabor

I agree. I'm very disappointed hearing about this deal. I will look for other instant messengers,
as I do not trust the NSA's snooping front called Facebook.

ianbordas

Lot of negative responses from Whatsapp users simply cause they hate FB... this could turn out to be a good thing for BBM.

seascape

Indeed. And if Whatsapp, which is hardly a big revenue generating product, is worth $16 billion, BBM (also not a revenue generating product) is at least worth a fraction of that. Which means BlackBerry is undervalued.

3_M4N

Bingo!

Posted while peeking and flowing on my incredible BBQ10! 

flacrack

It was $4 billion in cash + stock + delayed stock to owners. They charge $1 per year to use the app after the first year. So they have a potential of $700 million per year in sales right now. That's like a 30:1 PE on the cash equity. Amazon, another worthless stock is 8x higher. Plus the value of what's in the texts, like gmail, will be valuable. It seems like a lot, but may not be.

flacrack

Sorry, its a 6:1 ratio, making it so much cheaper than Amazon, which make no profit at all.

DaSchwantz

Facebook no longer has any money.

Posted via CB10

vladi

Those are not analysts, those are speculators.

SparkyBC

Like everything Blackberry has done is a$$ backwards, that's why they're where they're. They blew so many opportunities there isn't much left to make it worthwhile anymore. Even the cross platform BBM is a year late and a dollar short in terms of functionality. The new release instantly lags on Ios as soon as it's launched. Channels it's painful. Not a good way to show off this platform when it still has serious issues in the coding. Most of the problems are to give it the BB10 feel in Ios which slows it down to a turtle!

A person has to use Facebook to even care. Honestly in the next 5 years i don't see much of Facebook being left. It's already turning into a myspace slowly again. There is far to much data that can be easily stolen. Sure they buy whatsapp now but i don't think it was even worth half of what they paid for it.

Not sure what they're really buying besides a user base, it's not really marketable in terms of facebook. An no real revenue to drop the kind of money they did on it.

I know i don't use whats app now or if they integrate it into Facebook i won't use it there either. I couldn't care less about Facebook anymore the fade is long over. Twitter is where it's At IMHO. It's kinda like Skype to me and don't use it either..

Guess i am old school..

IJKBB10

+1,000,000

Posted via CB10 with my BB z30

kozmo68

I'm with you, Tried WhatsApp years ago and it was painful experience that I deleted it and never went back. My mission now is to get everyone on board BBM and although not everyone bites right off the start, I've been able to convince most of my close friends to jump on BBM.. As for Facebook, so yesterday for me. I still log on to see peoples posts but I can't remember the last time I did a status update myself..

igor10000

I just updated my status, with the link to this article :-D

canuckbear

Bubbles would not be down with your pov.

Posted via CB10

Gord Cluthe

I have always boycotted both Facebook and WhatsApp. All this does is deepen the boycott * haha *

Posted via CB10

flo_mar

I boycotted Facebook by exporting all e-mails and birthdays. I did not miss it a single day. I still use Whatsapp though to groupchat with people and to have a quick way to communicate with friends abroad. Do you do any of this and have a suggestion for less suspicous alternatives?

dawolfen

I would be angry if I were you too. What an insane amount of money. BlackBerry certainly blew it....but then again, it shows that with Twitter worth $20B and WhatsApp worth 16+, BBRY is severely undervalued!

LostOnThePianoRoll

Adding more point to why bbm could get the crown for the enterprise messenger.. you definitely don't want your business chats over at Facebook's servers...

Posted via CB10 on my Z10STL100-10.2.1.2102

SparkyBC

Guess who's already tapped into Whatsapp and Facebook? Good old NSA, how convenient that will be to track people now..

diegonei

Yep, very good point.

djsrt

A very good point. However, let's be realistic : how many out of a thousand people truly are concerned about their privacy, FB, NSA? My guess is less than 150. Some may vocalize it, but few act on it.

2671D7D7

Naeg1995

exactly….thats the point …thats why 16bilion….NSA is the key ...
Never used whats app and never will

priceless819

Excellent point!

Posted via CB10

Prem WatsApp

Yeah, can I change my username to Prem BBM now, pleeeeeaaase.....

iPhone for me? Scr... ahem Q that! (posted from the latter)

thisiscjay

In contrast, to put an approximate value on BBM I would assume (various variables aside) it's fair to say it's worth is maybe $1-5 billion give or take? Strictly comparison of installed user base of course...

jojo beaconsfield

It's 4 billion in cash and 12 billion in shares.Who owns WhatsApp?and another 3 Billion in restricted shares for a total of 19 BILLION,

freddysrevng3

Kevin... what are you so hot about? Did you want BlackBerry to sell BBM if it had WhatsApp's 450 million users? What good would that do?

As I see it, there is one less competitor for BBM that is not Facebook dependent.... also, the market just pegged users of this service at about $45 per user.... multiple that by BBM, what 85 million users????

BlackBerry stock is up after hours because BBM users just became "Monetized"..... Thanks, Zuck....

freddysrevng3

Facebook really did "choke" though - they could have had BlackBerry for far less and made their Facebook Phones.... as they fade into "Myspaceville" they will regret that they did not do this later...

dawolfen

Kevin's point is that if people had listened 3 years ago, BBM would be in WhatsApp's current position and have 500 million users and be worth 20 billion, instead of playing catchup now

THBW

I think we need to be clear. Whatsup doesn't have 450 million users. Like Facebook, they are very generous on what they call a user. Apparently, I'm three different people on Facebook as we speak. It's all a bit of a scam and the investment crowd started to notice about a year ago when rumors of a possible sale were emerging.

However, is this a good deal for Facebook. It depends on how they approach it. The problem for Facebook is that people and more importantly business has moved on. It's not clear to me how Whatsup changes this.

Posted via CB10

freddysrevng3

Sorry, Kev... 16 bil divided by 450 mil users equals $35 per user times 85 mil BBM users makes BBM worth over $3 billion.......and Prem wanted to give us $4.5 billion @ $9 per share....

Seems a bit light, in retrospect, don't it????

hmmalex

BBM isn't worth that, nor is whatsapp worth what they were acquired for. FB hugely overpaid by dropping cash and diluting their shareholders.

Posted via CB10

freddysrevng3

@ hmm.... it's called a "comp" for short... look it up...

ZayDub

+1000 #ProudShareholder

Posted via CB10

shabbs

Yeah, I mean, what good would 450M BBM users be. Totally useless. Man, BlackBerry is so lucky to have avoided that nightmare. Whew.

pmich

What this does is also undervalue blackberry as a company. Using the user base, bbm is presently worth 4billion even though it has a greater set of features which makes it possible worth more. The stock is already rising.

Posted via CB10

freddysrevng3

How many users of BBM are there now? Multiply that by $35.55 - which is what Facebook just paid per WhatsApp user.....

jic999

Not bad .....$16B for a hackable messenger app.... Boy guys at www.bbm.com better get their gears ready JC wants results !!

Devil

Truth now Kevin, you have an owner-only edit button for comments, don't you?

Posted via CB10

Torymon

Funny!

Posted via CB10

Koepman

19 billion usd btw

Since 2010 

AnimalPak200

16B is messed up. Almost as if all these vaporware silicon valley companies are just trying to self-affirm their own values by "affirming" the values of other similarly questionable entities.

Wtf

Posted via CB10

DaSchwantz

Kinda like the way the major banks value their illiquid assets...

Posted via CB10

dejanh

The only thing that matters is the cash, $4 billion. The rest is used to incentivize the purchase. Facebook wants a serious in on the IM game and since they have a ton of shares to spare then why not use them to pick up the biggest IM out there, WhatsApp. Bottom line is that with enough made up money I could say that the value of of anything I want to buy is whatever I want it to be.

Posted via CB10

Torymon

Exactly!

Posted via CB10

canuckbear

Transfer of wealth. FB stock will be hammered

Posted via CB10

dannyd86

And BBM still has some very basic features like sending a picture to a multi person chat, that whatsapp has. I still dont have my messaging solution. Whatsapp and BBM are both wrong. Channels can go to hell, what a waste of money and time they put into that. Why do I need to browse another social network when I cant even send a damn picture!!

mrneo3277

It's the user not the app,

Posted via CB10

dejanh

Oh and, just to bring this a bit more into the realm of reality, WhatsApp has 450 million registered users. Let's say that the full 70% of that are subscribers (outside extreme), the actual valuation of the company is 315 million plus assets and less any liabilities. Since we don't know what assets and liabilities WhatsApp has we can just use the revenue in our calculation, which would indicate a valuation that is 51x greater than the entire revenue potential of the company. I don't care what strategic plan you may have in place or what "bright" idea you have, you will never recover this investment. But then again, they only invested $4 billion, so nothing to worry about.

Posted via CB10

BlackberryFan777

Agreed. But, also, whatever BlackBerry received to settle IP disputes with WhatsApp years ago -- it was too little if it wasn't equity! Glad Steve Zipperstein is running that show today...

And for what it's worth, this deal makes almost no sense. I understand that FB is valuing the WhatsApp active user base, like they did with their instagram acquisition, and betting that they can monetize it when WhatsApp couldn't, but... man, that's a lot of money for an app that may look like it has weathered the BBM4ALL storm, but could still be hit pretty hard if and when BBM takes off with some viral campaign or something.

Also, this illustrates how shortsighted John Chen is. Enterprise BBM could be worth something, but nowhere near what a BBM that eclipses WhatsApp might be worth. He'll return BlackBerry to profitability, but at the expense of tremendous lost opportunity.

Posted via CB10

jsocan

Agreed. BlackBerry is making another mistake after being late to the cross platform instant messaging game. Now is the time to double the effort to build out BBM user base, and Consumer is where the users are. It's all good to add BBM to the enterprise package, but it should be in parallel to the Consumer push. What good are BBM channels if all you have is a relatively small user base from the enterprise customers. Putting BBM under the Enterprise unit indicates BBRY is giving up on the consumer front ( at least for now) like what they are doing to devices in developed markets. Problem is it will be impossible to return to consumer market once everyone has settled on their favorite cross platform messaging app that's not BBM.

BlackberryFan777

Exactly my concern. We'll said!

Posted via CB10

TrueKulcha

Marriage made in hell. Lol

Posted via CB10

mrneo3277

Hey man I here a lot of you all, giving all praises to other platforms and apps,fuxk that shat! The overall picture is this, things are happening the way they are supposed to. We all know that 16 billion for copy carting ass "what's app "is some bullshit, ,KEVIN! DAMN MAN! QUIT THINKING EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED FOR US, , Facebook is making a lot of stupid moves to stay relevant ,,,and without bb10. Cross platform could not have happened, when have to best phone in the world but you guys giving all the praise hoe ass iPhone and janky ass andriods, if that jackass wants to give what's app 16 billion dollas,let him,I. Wouldn't want face having to do shit with BlackBerry, Bbm went cross-platform at a perfect time, Bbm wouldn't have mattered back then. Because Steve Jobs told everyone to hate BlackBerry and love iPhone, so, what I'm saying is get the tampons out your asses....stop worrying about who got what and when, enjoy your device
Can't you see all the greatness that is happening with BlackBerry, every other platform has hit the wall, we have had a rebirth. With. a four to five. Year growth, we are rite where we are supposed be

*****. Remember, time changes minds, and. Minds changes the times

Posted via CB10

iN10Se

Couldn't have said it any better myself Kevin. The market was there for BlackBerry but they were just too stubborn to release it to the masses. If BBM went cross platform a few years ago they would easily be sitting at 500 plus million users.

Posted via CB10

mrneo3277

Hey man I here a lot of you all, giving all praises to other platforms and apps,fuxk that shat! The overall picture is this, things are happening the way they are supposed to. We all know that 16 billion for copy carting ass "what's app "is some bullshit, ,KEVIN! DAMN MAN! QUIT THINKING EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED FOR US, , Facebook is making a lot of stupid moves to stay relevant ,,,and without bb10. Cross platform could not have happened, when have to best phone in the world but you guys giving all the praise hoe ass iPhone and janky ass andriods, if that jackass wants to give what's app 16 billion dollas,let him,I. Wouldn't want face having to do shit with BlackBerry, Bbm went cross-platform at a perfect time, Bbm wouldn't have mattered back then. Because Steve Jobs told everyone to hate BlackBerry and love iPhone, so, what I'm saying is get the tampons out your asses....stop worrying about who got what and when, enjoy your device
Can't you see all the greatness that is happening with BlackBerry, every other platform has hit the wall, we have had a rebirth. With. a four to five. Year growth, we are rite where we are supposed be

*****. Remember, time changes minds, and. Minds changes the times

Posted via CB10

Supa_Fly1

I.think now is thr time for BBM to go all out!

BBM is and always has been an enterprise application: business staff used it as such just like PIN 2 PIN, years before consumers really used it. Now make the corporate platform go on rails - instead of making separate apps for Enterprise messaging and one for Cisco implementation for collaboration based on its core code and API's in limited fashion have those work as add ons similar to how Connect for Dropbox and Box for Bb10 work with the file manager.

Next - allow invites to also work from SMS, data is very limited and expensive in emerging markets just like sms is so one time invite optional for sms works huge in the modern markets.

Next make blocks in BBM work hand in hand with auto.blocking PIN 2 PIN = kills the spam. Implement Channels Ban records for ALL channel hosts (except those that have been banned more than 3 strikes and have created their own channel: beta users or not; your banned 3x, your on the shit list)

Time to go FULL steam with Channels - corporations with over 1000 members pay $$.

Enhance more features and simultaneous platform role out no more favoring on platform over another.

BlackBerry Q10  & Full Metal CB10!

cgangoli

Even now I'm unable to get my team at work on to BBM simply because BlackBerry is too arrogant to get out BBM for windows phones. Pathetic.

Posted via CB10

mrskycar

Maybe we need to team with WPCentral and let @BlackBerry know its time for Windows Phone

shiftymagoo

It's not insanity when you consider what Facebook is really buying!

Considering how whatsapp harvests all contacts and phone numbers like a virus they are really buying every contact and text from all 450 million users.

How else could it make any sense. At face value they could only really generate $450 million /yr based on how whatsapp has been monetized.

It doesn't add up st face value.

Posted via CB10

asherwiin

Facebook's Terms of Use will be modified once this deal closes and overnight WhatsApp will double or even triple it's potential user base once it scans Facebook user accounts.

Some of your FB friends are on WhatsApp and you are not?? Wow, you better click here to get the App so you can stay in touch... :-)

Posted via CB10

chopachain

Agree with you Kevin. The sooner BB can release BBM for PC's and laptops the better. It must be able to run independently. I am not talking about a BB10 devise docked using a monitor and BT mouse and keyboard. This will increase the userbase by millions.

bad mojo92

Apparently because of the valuation of Whatsapp..the stocks of BlackBerry went up!

Posted via CB10

Nayalm

Mark Zuckerberg CIA agent code name (Over Lorde) will own WhatsApp for the CIA .
No BlackBerry board member would even look at any bid from FaceBook to acquire the company when it was for sale, if they say they are in the mobile security business.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFH3uLuNL5Y

Observation Junkie

Too all those WhatsApp users. Does that mean all your text records are going to be mined, used for what knows???

Catapulted from my Z10.

freddysrevng3

OJ... these crazy Facebooking iTarded kids don't care about "privacy".... that's for old people... they won't appreciate it until it is too late...

Observation Junkie

Agree

Catapulted from my Z10.

freddysrevng3

BBM just became worth a little over $3 Billion.... Prem wanted to give us $4.5 billion for all of BlackBerry.... guess he knew what he was doing and why he continues to pump dough into BlackBerry...

Observation Junkie

BBM isn't currently charging any annual fees for its access to its messaging services. They at least should have made this a paid app when it went other mobiles.

Those extra dollars they could have plowed back into the company for advertising, R&D or whatever.

It's not do much about value of the company, but bring money in right now when it's needed.

Hopefully they will monetise the desktop BBM.

Catapulted from my Z10.

Observation Junkie

But BlackBerry has always been about niche markets, around security, corporate boys, whereas WhatsApp and face book is about mass market.

As long as BlackBerry is niche focused, it's going to be a little hard.

Catapulted from my Z10.

sk8er_tor

WhatsApp doesn't charge either. They keep saying they're going to charge but they keep extending the free subscription.

freddysrevng3

Agreed, but it is tough to charge when the competition isn't and you are coming from an underdog position - at least when it comes to iTards and Androids....Apparently, you don't have to charge for this feature for it to be worth billions... good news for BBM ....

Skype tries to charge for an inferior service.... just makes you not want to use it... and BBM Video cross platform will bury Skype if it is anywhere near as good cross platform as it is BB10 to BB10...

Kanimir

Right, because if someone doesn't agree with you, he is retarded. Very mature comment.

Observation Junkie

Was that aimed at me?

Catapulted from my Z10.

Prem WatsApp

Long threads sometimes become very hard to read, who said what and replied to who... yadayada

Any chance CB could implement a colour gradient for the orange, or change to a different colour after so many levels. I am sure someone has a smart idea.

Maybe make every third level a lighter colour, or alternating, like so

Dark orange -> medium -> light -> dark grey -> medium -> light

iPhone for me? Scr... ahem Q that! (posted from the latter)

eldricho

This came so unexpectedly

Posted via CB10

Paul Callahan

A lot of things 'come' unexpectedly..
Do not fret.

Posted from my Q10 (TMobile) Running OS 10.2.1.2102 as of 2.14.2014!

feldmen01

I don't know what to say...

Posted via CB10

Carterbits

Oh come now, really?!

[URL="http://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/vendor/17581"]Download [B][COLOR="#b03060"]Noted[/COLOR][/B], my 5-star rated, native BB10 notepad app.[/URL]

chrisstlaurent

Paid way too much

Posted via CB10

kozmo68

that's what happens when you have more money then brains... Although the bulk of the money is stock options not hard cash!

Genghis2k3

That the stock options have such value suggests significant grey matter is involved.

MedicEms

Wow and their sure they don't want to buy Blackberry for just 4 billion?

diegonei

Do we REALLY want Facebook to buy BlackBerry?

Would companies STAY if that happened?

freddysrevng3

Personally, I am good with Prem and the Chenmeister running BBRY for the time being..

NamelessStar

Way to much value insane

Posted via CB10 on my blazing fast Z30 running 10.2.1.1925

Genghis2k3

Unless it's intended to blow offers by other suitors out of the water.

xhead75

HolyCrapp

Posted via CB10

Brandon Orr

Wow they could've bought BlackBerry and BBM for less than a third. Facebook is desperate.

- Developer of [URL="https://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/content/34825892"]PinGuin[/URL]

Prem WatsApp

Facebook goes after the easily-to-get users, no way they could buy BlackBerry and keep the majority of users, different mindset, perceived privacy needs and level of tech understanding

iPhone for me? Scr... ahem Q that! (posted from the latter)

Prem WatsApp

* easy-to-get

iPhone for me? Scr... ahem Q that! (posted from the latter)

ARWestenberger

Wow this is a huge surprise. BBM better get to work fast.

Z10

jccoolz

Good for Bbm valuation, Bbry up big afterhour

Posted via CB10

Eduardo Gonzales1

the desire to spy on more people

jdm joe

Can't see the justification for that value. FB investors are not gonna be happy.

Posted via CB10

djraz_official

I called this 6 months ago.

Posted via CB10

smart548

16 billions?!?!? 500 million users right now: let's say 300 millions of them will pay the buck: it means around 300 millions of dollars. No ads on whatsapp, no gaming nor social network look-alike. So that BBM's value should be around 50 billions dollars....

Posted via CB10

tvst28

I'm guessing the $1/year model is going to change. Whoever hasn't paid yet will probably no have to pay but instead be served ads and whatnot. Those who paid the $1 will probably not see ads for their current year of subscription.That's the only conceivable way Fb can hope to recover this kind of an investment in a timely manner.

cfoxx

Interesting. This will give facebook access to millions of users' telephone numbers, something it constantly pushes us to put on our profiles. Remember the old BlackBerry app used to have the option "Ask Katy to add her phone number!". This could become the dominant chat app, make no mistake - this is big.

Posted via CB10

SparkyBC

Hardly big and won't be dominant. Not by a long shot.. Waste of money though for their future use or a revenue/ad stream!

textmint2013

This will be big not because it gives FB users to phone numbers but because it gives them access to contact books on ur phone. All the phone numbers in ur contact book will now be with Facebook. If ever there was a blatant violation of privacy, it would be this.

Posted via CB10

Prem WatsApp

Total data-mining orga... ahem armageddon

Stick to BBRY!

iPhone for me? Scr... ahem Q that! (posted from the latter)

TrueKulcha

I should frame thus comment and post everywhere. Well said genius. I'm just left shaking my head at how many crazy nutheads in our world today.

Posted via CB10

jojo beaconsfield

Good for the stock,BB stock is up 8% after hours.

Jaiden

So, Facebook will soon have a direct line to users' personal contact lists...awesome O_o

Posted via CB10

Gord Cluthe

Not cool..

Posted via CB10

ggastaris

They already do with facebook app

Posted via CB10

Dukun

Can't one turn that permission off? I don't remember because I removed that app immediately and use the browser if I must.

Whyareallthegoodnamestaken

Hmmmmmm

I don't even know what to think about this.

Posted via CB10

blacksheepbridge

So how does whatsapp go from $1billion to $16 billion valuation in one year?

http://www.wpcentral.com/google-attempting-acquire-whatsapp-near-1-billi...

Posted via CB10

SlapChopVince

Grossly overpriced to say the least!

Facebook would be better off fleshing out FB Messenger, getting native stand-alone apps for BB10 and WP 8/8.1 on top of Android and iOS.

Posted via CB10 on my BlackBerry Z30

LostOnThePianoRoll

They paid for the phone numbers, say you install whatsapp, it uploads your contact list.. when 500 million people do that you collect the phone numbers of nearly every single cell phone in the planet.. if you don't have whatsapp, someone who does has you in their phone list... no exceptions..

Posted via CB10 on my Z10STL100-10.2.1.2102

priceless819

Cyber marketing! To hell with whatscrap

Posted via CB10

ggastaris

Whatsapp probably gathered a bunch of information about users. Hence that is the info mark wants to buy to invade more of your privacy. But we will let him.

Posted via CB10

thymaster

I didn't even think WhatsApp is worth that much. Facebook already has a chat application and I don't know why they would want to take on a burden of another chat application. What am I blabbering about, I don't even use WhatsApp.

IJKBB10

Even though Whatsapp is not even close to that value is because of the 450 Million user s base now Facebook has access too

Posted via CB10 with my BB z30

thymaster

The last I heard, Facebook already have access to a billion people. I'm pretty sure of the 450 million Whatsapp users they already have a Facebook account.

MrGlenn

Actually this may work out for BBM.

A lot of FB users do not want FB to have access to their most personal information, this may actually drive some to switch to BBM. :)

I know I would rather have a choice in what information I share. FB just 'buying' the information they want is pretty comical though.

BlackBerry 10 signed.

Prem WatsApp

That's one of the things that can happen if you join one of the smaller "trending" social networks or communication tools now. Once it reaches a certain size, it will be gobbled up by the existing internet giants.

Skype, Flickr, Youtube, Instagram, Tumblr, etc.... you name it

And your data / account is sold with it.

iPhone for me? Scr... ahem Q that! (posted from the latter)

donellm1

Damn!!! Facebook not slowing down they are on a venture capitalist path.

Posted via CB10

thymaster

Ever since they went Public, they went on a spending spree just like Google.

AbAll87

I feel we are a desperate bunch!!! I don't know what that means for bbm but it doesn't feel good

Posted via CB10

freedomx20a

Oh noo

 BlackBerry Q10 

mrskycar

I don't see that much value at all. Hopefully this puts all that data under a better privacy policy. Glad to know there is one less application I will be willing to use.

Q10SQN100-2/10.2.1.1925

freedomx20a

Google buy bbm for 70B

 BlackBerry Q10 

rickster2611

Now Facebook has everybody data and phone numbers.

This is why BBM is even more important messenger than ever before.

I'm wondering how many people will now switch to BBM on hearing this news?

BBM... for the people, not the corporations.

Posted via CB10

Jakubshgn

Used whatsface only few times, now I'll stop :-)
Think it's good for bbm.

Posted via CB10

wout000

I'm actually seeing this as a great opportunity for BlackBerry.

Microsoft has been in the process of unifying their services under one banner and if they were to do the same with WhatsApp it would effectively mean that Whatsapp and Facebook messenger will be rolled into one. Microsoft is effectively doing the same as Google, buying themselves into our lives (Don't get Microdoodled)

BlackBerry should start aggressively marketing security and diversity. It's time to take on the Microsoft haters who will flee Whatsapp out of principle and to let the world know BlackBerry has a standalone, multi-platform and most importantly (somewhat) secure IM platform.

That and adding in features the people want for years now (multi-pic send being one big one)

...

I'm curious to see how this pans out and what Microsoft intends to do with it.

Posted via CB10

g33kphr33k

Think about it folks. Facebook is a rather nice honey pot for the NSA. Now they can cross reference numbers and user data and collect more conversation in real time.

Someone mentioned WhatsApp has no ads, I suspect this will change. If not, you can bet the user/licence agreement does to allow all Sara to be parsed and used by FB.

Z10 until Z30

g33kphr33k

Data, not Sara =\

Z10 until Z30

Prem WatsApp

You could easily get the numbers of all Saras, if you feel the need to marry one! ;-)

iPhone for me? Scr... ahem Q that! (posted from the latter)

1guitarguy

Does anyone else think this is terrible?!! I mean facebook doesn't give their services to BlackBerry as it is nor does instagram.

Posted via CB10

kfh227

This is great news. As people continue to get sick of Facebook, and facebook integrates WhatsApp into it's Facebook interface people will exit in droves. Opens things up for Blackberry.

FWIW: Most people I work with are sick of getting pictures of crap from friend and links to articles they don't care about. Some have deleted accounts. Others ignore that their account exists.

Wonderful!

BlackBerry Owner 1

Never been Whatsapp user, never been a Facebook user...nothings changing for me.

Join my BBM Channel. PIN: C003A4A0D

highoctane74

I was expecting Google to buy them....but not for that much. wow!

Posted from my Q10....

RMRuk

Pulled my Facebook account a few months ago and have remained loyal to BBM since day one. Never even tried other messaging apps. I completely agree that BBM was miles ahead of everyone..... too bad that purchasing a hockey team took priority over expanding the business.

Posted via CB10

menshawy

That's insane!! I don't want to live in this planet anymore!!!

Posted via CB10

Prem WatsApp

As I posted above...

Total data-mining armageddon....

iPhone for me? Scr... ahem Q that! (posted from the latter)

SilkySunshine

I just deleted my Whatsapp account this morning and uninstalled the app off my Z30. Good riddance. I wish Facebook all the best. I use neither service so no matter to me. BBM all the way.

Posted via CB10

Koepman

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Since 2010 

wincyUt

Just thinking out loud, maybe this why Loebs acquired 10 million BBRY shares just recently.
BBRY can only go up from here on. BBM is definitely not worthless.

Posted via CB10

dchapman32

Wow. I'm a heavy WhatsApp user and I don't think this will push me away... I use it because everyone I communicate with uses it too. If they all get BBM, I'd switch... but for them, it's too little too late and they've all got used to WhatsApp. Why change if it does the job? BBM will struggle to catch up :(

Posted via CB10

boldbalance

Well that's a good question! That's why BlackBerry should have made BBM cross-platform several years ago. If they did that, then they would have a major advantage over WhatsApp (in terms of having more active users) right now and everyone would be using BBM instead of WhatsApp. The truth is...not everyone wants WhatsApp and they prefer a different messaging platform for different features and such. I've personally tried WhatsApp and I had a terrible experience. This may not influence you to quit WhatsApp but this move might persuade some people to not use WhatsApp anymore. This could present concerned people an opportunity to switch to BBM since it offers great privacy and security. I'm not claiming to be an expert or anything like that. This is my take on it.

masterful

Wait for it...and see how they get you out

Posted via CB10

Michael J Duffy

Meta data is worth a lot of money to Facebook's client base. Of course, just because we use Facebook doesn't make us clients but the product.
Another reason to use BBM...

Posted via CB10

StephenUSA

Doesn't WhatsApp have about 50 employees? It is worth something, but $16 billion?

Kanimir

It's not the number of the employees that's important, it's huge userbase and popularity of Whatsapp.

StephenUSA

Number of employees can be an indicator of bu$iness activity.

SparkyBC

Facebook and Whatsapp already give the NSA full access. Common knowledge..

Icarus3000

That is insane. I can't fathom their being that much value in WhatsApp, when there is apparently no value in BBRY as a whole (including BBM!), but what do I know. I briefly had whatsapp on my Z10, but much prefer BBM. Hopefully cross-platform BBM will regain some of these users, and BBRY will regain some of its value.

J Johnstone

Tried Whatsapp when it first came out - didn't like it. Bbm has a chance here to pick up more users. They need to simplify adding users maybe even a phone number option. Get video and screen share cross platform. Desktop interface like skype and voice calls to landlines would seal the deal. This can be a huge money maker...

Posted via CB10

priceless819

Bbm doesn't need phone numbers...that's why it's secure. And you can send screen captures to other platforms, so it's confusing what you are talking about? Are you really eager to give out your phone number so quickly? No reason to now with Bbm voice. SMH... Whatsapp troll!

Posted via CB10

priceless819

What's crap and Facebook? I don't think either is worth a dime, in any currency. Lmao. 16 billion for whatscrap? Really? Are they gonna integrate it into fb?

Posted via CB10

diegonei

Not good news in my book...

Jerry Margarita

Now it's bbms move!

Start a campaign promoting the secure connection

Posted via CB10

odzz23

Honestly this is scary. Whatsapp basically runs on phone numbers while facebook creates user profiles. Link those two together and there wont be any privacy left.

Mo Cat

Zuckerberg must be out of his mind to pay $16 bill for WhatsApp. The world is really going nuts.

CB10 - Q10

Uncle Sky

Haha, even more reason for business users to stay away from whatsap. BlackBerry could use this to their advantage if they use their imagination.

C004682C1 .... shot from my z10

prplhze2000

Another damn good reason he ins needed to geaux

Posted via CB10

prplhze2000

Should be Heins

Posted via CB10

mehofmann

What's app sucks and so does Facebook. If you want an unsecured system of messaging and Facebook data mining then stay with them. Otherwise who gives a s**t!! Seriously.

Posted via CB10

xBURK

It's never too late for BBM and BlackBerry. What's done is done. I have faith that Mr. Chen's management shake up is finally going to pave the way for a new and improved company. .The ego is gone and the focus to succeed is now here.

Posted via CB10

inonaz

Now let's stop having whatapp in our BlackBerry? Not even have official Facebook

Posted via CB10

BerryRipe

I honestly don't give a fluck! BlackBerry needs to start pursuing it's patent infringements. Sue WhatsApp for copying BBM or is it to late?

Either way BlackBerry has way too much of an uphill battle in their way, I am really starting to worry about its future.

Keep The Faith  BlackBerry Q10 

bizdudePB

$ 4 billion in cash is quite a lot. What is their cash position like?

And then diluting their shares by another $12 Billion. It just seems way too high. Maybe they felt the premium was justified because of how far in front they are based on users.

Posted via CB10

rickster2611

16 Billion for all the data of all the smartphone users on WhatsApp around the world .

Absolute Bargain.....LMMFAO

BBM...for the people, not corporations

Posted via CB10

Paintedeyes

16 billion, wow. I have maybe 3 people I speak to on a daily basis who refuse to use bbm.

Posted via CB10

ggastaris

Well, I guess if you are ok with facebook now owning your conversations and selling your phone number and email or whatever you give whatsapp, then go for it.

Posted via CB10

mehofmann

That's what I said... agree. screw them. Give me the most secure platform on the market any day. I don't have a Facebook account and never will. Worst scourge of humanity. Causes social voyeurism for the sake of voyeurism. More people's lives wrecked then helped by Facebook. Now they can monetize your messaging and sell ads at the same time...

Posted via CB10

cvdburgh

I was planning to leave WhatsApp before the end if the month, but now it will be this weekend.

Facebook?!? No f*ing way!

Posted via CB10

tlegend2012

Google bought Motorola for 12Bil. and this is a bigger company.. 16 bil for an app? that's crazy..

Declan Walsh

I've been pro bbm for ever.

Sadly watched my contact count dwindle over the years because my friends picked up iPhones & Whatsapp.

Hope this will be the push that gets everyone back on bbm. It's far superior in every respect.

Looking forward to BBRY share price rocketing because of that valuation!

Posted via CB10

jon4400

Lately I've been trying to avoid Facebook, but with this, it's goodbye Whatsapp.

Posted via CB10

trwallace

to me this is a good thing. you had two competitors for bbm and now you only have one. They have to also learn to integrate the two companies never easy. Sure they have the large customer base but i for one would never use facebook messenger as a serious user. Its not secure the way it works sucks and its just plain not very good. Facebook overpaid for it as well. Does this wake blackberry up a bit. Probably. Hopefully it gets them going in the right direction and quickly. Dont expect facebook to do anything to
make this a better platform all it did is take one competitor off the map.

jfunds

Woow

Posted via CB10

Drenis

All I can say is wow...

Posted via CB10

RegN

Never used it and now for sure would not use it. Funny how the world changed in a few years. Billions were never mentioned millionaires were few and far between now the throw billions around like it's nothing.

Reg leaked 10.2.1.1925. Q10

paulmike83

Great post Kevin. BBM rocks. And Whatsapp knows that to. As the saying goes "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

Team BlackBerry

SlcCorrado

Really? I mean. REALLY??

BBstarBB

All I need is BBM. It rocks.

dasmahmoud

Acquisitions left and right and still no one wants BlackBerry. Not even a part of it. Left out like the girl at the prom that no one wants to date. They even put their sluttiest dress (for sale sign) on and it didn't work out. There must be something seriously wrong with that company. Maybe all the other companies are racist and don't date Canadians?

Gord Cluthe

LOL - quite the analogy...

Posted via CB10

ibpluto

well....I don't use Facebook OR Whatsapp, so this doesn't change anthing for me. Makes one consider BBM's valuation thou

emmuniz1

Frankly I don't give a damn!

Just a few more days until my wife is back on BBM and for me to delete once and for all WhatsApp from my beloved Z10...

BBM will take the messaging service World one user at a time!

All the people I care and love are back in BBM so I don't need WhatsApp anymore...

#BB10Believe #BlackBerryNation #BB10Army #BB10Freak #KeepMoving #TeamBlackberry #BBMCrossPlatform #BBM4All #IChooseBlackBerry10

I'm MongezaurioBerry

thurask

There goes the neighborhood.

kaze_25

Just another FB data mining operation. I don't trust FB with my data so looks like I'm deleting whatsapp...

Posted via CB10

scuebydue

Hmmm...has anyone seen the new Facebook app permissions on IOS and Android? They ask for permissions to your calendar without you know they have access, and to your recent calls and emails and texts. Hmm..

blackmoe

And soon FB will have all those phonebooks and contacts from millions of people who needed a wakeup about the lack of pin credentials.

jic999

Geez FB spends $19B for Whats App and the market cap of National Bank is $8B and and Bank of Montreal is $40B .....geez somebody is in the wrong business or this is going to end bad !!

fanks

I left facebook over a year before because the android app was painful. I didn't get invites steadily. Whatsapp at least does its job. But I always felt uncomfortable seeing contact in Whatsapp I don't even know.
Facebook buying WA would be a reason to quit that messenger to.

Posted via CB10

CEO-Bruno

WhatsApp is weak Communication tool for messaging. The Internet is filled with hacking tools and spying software to tap into users of WhatsApp.

This /#*/!t is worth 16 or 19 Billion for Facebook ?? I would not want any of my communication tool linked to social network. In the news I heard Facebook even keeps track of your love life. They are so good at it that Facebook algorithms know when your in love.

Plus to pay a Fee to use WhatsApp!!!

I say BlackBerry BBM now has advantage Over all Messengers

Meanwhile BBM is Powerhouse Communication tool now cross platform!! Let the updates keep coming #BBMForAll
Next: Enterprise BBM, Desktop Apple, Windows BBM. Ability to play video like Vine.

What BlackBerry does Now and fast will make them come out strong!!

BlackBerry Lead
Do not Follow.

Posted via CB10

drewysta

I'm glad I deleted whatsapp and Facebook!

Posted via CB10

Alex Keb

Facebook gets the Bubble of the Year Award for this ludicrous deal. Such a massive dilution of stock and cash burn going to hurt Facebook in long run. Seems from this desperate move that their growth isn't so great as its made up to be. I am very curious how they going to get their ROI back?

Whatsapp makes absolutely no money. Just because they have many users with empty accounts doesn't mean the numbers are growing. Seems like Whatsapp management gets the awesome deal of the year award since they got away filthy rich by not creating any value.

Once Apple, Google, Microsoft and Blackberry get their messaging services multi-platform, curious what will happen to Whatsapp users. Not to mention, not everyone going to be happy to know that Zuck now has access to all your text messages.

jic999

Great point , sure the question is " can you build a friggen hackable messenger app for $19B ? " I would think so but in Bubble land apparently you can't. National Bank of Canada has a $8B market cap and Great West Life Co has a market cap of $30B the rest is history !! oh oh BlackBerry has a market cap of $5.4B heck FB should throw $10B to BB and call it a day !!

chrisstlaurent

FB is waaaay overvalued. They are selling at 100x PE. It's crazy! Then they go blow 16 BILLION DOLLARS. For what? 500 million accounts that sit doing nothing. At least 250 million of those accounts are "not active". I'm sure Facebook has way more current users than What's app. So they now have a messaging app, that any joe blow developing company could make. Am I missing something?

Posted via CB10

FrankDLR1972

BBM should automatically add or leave an option open to easily add everyone in your contacts list. Its the only way to effectively get as many people as possible on the platform.

BBM Channel: The Group Ride C00055B7C

mobilesync

Time for BlackBerry to make bbm have bullet proof quality and take over wasapp's users.

bluetroll

more reason to stop using whatsapp now.

i'm glad i left the service when bbm went xplatform.

ravelojorge

You guys see this as a bad thing; however I believe this is one of the best thing that could have happen; Facebook did that move because they knew that to enter to this messaging war they had to do it big time and fast, since BBM is growing larger and better every day

And remember that BBM with their Channels are entering on Facebook territory; so basically BBM have made such huge impact in recent days that it have made Facebook to run for cover!!!

Posted via CB10

abana

Agreed

Posted via CB10

masterful

Those subscribe will move to other chat platform.
Why??

There will advertise on the application now. Muhahah

Posted via CB10

surgeon1919

I'm so happy I deactivated my facebook account and whatsapp account. No thank you!

Posted via CB10

Vysionous

The CIA possibly needs the WhatsApp chat logs of the world too.

Posted via CB10

henrickrw

I'd rather BBM a million times over Whatsapp

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

canuckbear

I've never shorted a company but this insanity begs it be done.

Posted via CB10

flyersfan76

"some folks are fickle about who provides their services."

That is why I limit the amount of google products that I use. But I like many choices.

emanuscript

Don't like whatsapp, no worries.

Posted via CB10

John Kastanes

Chen is changing BlackBerry culture. Expect good things in the near future.

Z10

Fortunate Fool

Facebook knew everything about your life but didn't know your phone number and those of your friends. Now it has all the information it needs. How convenient will it be now to connect all the dots so easily... NSA is celebrating today too.

Posted via CB10

fragment137

To be honest I only use whatsapp for the group chat. I use BBM for individual messaging. Only reason I use the group chat is because to be honest it's exclusively in-line for adding images and voice notes. I love BBMs group dynamic but I think they need to add in-chat pictures along side the 'archive' of pictures associated with the group.

Posted via CB10 on the one and only Z30

Mr.G_under

This is why I no longer use Whatsapp. It is not installed on my phone and I do hope they do not have my number stored somewhere. Well, that's already the case.

However, with this major announcement, I do not see how this is to affect BBM. Regardless of Kevin's perspective of whatsapp copying BBM, I don't think the app coupled with Facebook could do much more than BBM.

The only similarities with the two are messaging and being cross-platform. In reference to scalability, BBM will continue to grow to varying levels and areas than whatsapp could possibly attempt.

Major difference between the two, is SECURITY. Do I need to mention that aspect of BBM. What most people would not understand and still won't spend time understanding is the level of security BBM provides. There are a lot more features that prove more than valuable to consumers.

BBM will prove itself in the near future will all other subsidiaries of BlackBerry is on the rise.

Think positive people and enjoy the results.

d_chosen1

And it is funny to think that BBRY met with FB a few months ago during the sale process and could not strike a deal. But FB could dish out billions for Whatsapp insane...

Prem WatsApp

Berry people probably would not compromise on security and privacy. So "no deal", no matter what the offer. But $16b for WA sounds like a bit desperate....

iPhone for me? Scr... ahem Q that! (posted from the latter)

canuckbear

Reminds me of timewarner's purchase of aol.

If I recall correctly that didn't end well

Posted via CB10

cdnrider

What do the consider an active user? Somebody that downloaded it to their phone and never deleted it after trying it? Or actually sent a message with it?....

I feel the numbers are inflated..

Z10..

Posted via CB10

Real Estate Appraiser

Who are all these people using whatsapp? I don't know a single person that actively uses it. I know people who use snapchat, bbm and skype, but not whatsapp.

Posted via CB10

im_piejot

Guess the same BlackBerry users who were craving for whatsapp to be made available to bb10 before..

Whatsapp on my Q10, weChat on Note3.
Stopped using fb though.

Posted Via CB10 with BlackBerry Q10 2AEFCF1A

d_chosen1

Say a valuation of $4b for BBM.. plus IP and cash BBRY is a bargain should be worth at least $10b today over $18 per share

XDrew42

Dummies. Lol. Go.

Posted via CB10

piko 72

Good for NSA! All your infos in one place... Facebook instagram whatsapp!

Posted via my Galaxy Note 3 / Gear

Herbie52

This tells me BBM is cutting into WhatsApp userbase. Why would you want to use WhatsApp when BBM gives you a limitless ability to communicate? All Blackberry need now is their own cell service. Maybe buy Republic Wireless, and make them a Blackberry only service.

Posted via CB10

JMDBERRY

You tell 'em Kev!

Posted via CB10

Writer5

And the date collection goes on...

Posted via CB10

JMDBERRY

Folks,..you are tickets off over fb buying an app,..for $16-billions. I remind you that fb didn't buy an app,...they bought $16 billion dollars worth of "potential". Potential to play in anew area of the digital playground!

Posted via CB10

chrisstlaurent

Why wouldn't they make their own app, and distribute it through Facebook. How many users does FB have...more then enough. you can't justify 16 bln

Posted via CB10

im_piejot

They have fb messenger dont they?
Which useless.
Bbm? I have 12 contacts & send/receive no more than 10 since using this Q10 about 6months ago.

So far, in asia, wechat is the closest rival for whatsapp.

Has deactivate my fb ac, shall see what changes will be made to whatsapp by FB.

Posted Via CB10 with BlackBerry Q10 2AEFCF1A

mrneo3277

Hey man I here a lot of you all, giving all praises to other platforms and apps,fuxk that shat! The overall picture is this, things are happening the way they are supposed to. We all know that 16 billion for copy carting ass "what's app "is some bullshit, ,KEVIN! DAMN MAN! QUIT THINKING EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED FOR US, , Facebook is making a lot of stupid moves to stay relevant ,,,and without bb10. Cross platform could not have happened, when have to best phone in the world but you guys giving all the praise hoe ass iPhone and janky ass andriods, if that jackass wants to give what's app 16 billion dollas,let him,I. Wouldn't want face having to do shit with BlackBerry, Bbm went cross-platform at a perfect time, Bbm wouldn't have mattered back then. Because Steve Jobs told everyone to hate BlackBerry and love iPhone, so, what I'm saying is get the tampons out your asses....stop worrying about who got what and when, enjoy your device
Can't you see all the greatness that is happening with BlackBerry, every other platform has hit the wall, we have had a rebirth. With. a four to five. Year growth, we are rite where we are supposed be

*****. Remember, time changes minds, and. Minds changes the times

Posted via CB10

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