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< >

BlackBerry 10 devices will need to have a BlackBerry data plan

BlackBerry 10 devices will need to have a BlackBerry data plan
By Bla1ze on 29 Oct 2012 07:50 pm EDT
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Although for some folks, this might seem obvious, it's been a debated topic since the release of the BlackBerry 10 Dev Apha devices due to the fact they have the capability to work without a BlackBerry data plan attached to them. In the post to developers today explaining the differences between the BlackBerry Dev Alpha A and the BlackBerry Dev Alpha B, RIM confirmed BlackBerry 10 devices smartphones will need a BlackBerry data plan attached to them.

Should you decide to get a microSIM for your Dev Alpha, you do not need to have “BlackBerry Data” turned on for the account. Connectivity will be work with regular Internet access alone. There may be some carriers where data connectivity doesn’t work, but Wi-Fi will work for you in that case. Please note that this is the case just for the Dev Alpha device and not BlackBerry 10 launch devices, which will need to have BlackBerry data on the wireless plan.

This is important because the data plans are a revenue stream for BlackBerry. On the last CrackBerry podcast we discussed how RIM will or will not continue to earn service revenue and now we know at least in the consumer market, BlackBerry data plans are not going to be going away with the launch of BlackBerry 10.

Whether or not those plans will differ from what we know now remains to be seen. RIM and carriers have been rolling out new options in terms of pricing and offerings as of late, so it's not unreasonable to see that trend continue with BlackBerry 10. Also worth noting, this doesn't apply to the WiFi PlayBook, since people asked. Thanks, mcmolineux!

Discuss in the CrackBerry forums

170 comments

digitalhomeboy

What does being first have to do with the article? Why don't you read it and comment?

Great article would be a good start!

Eskibo

Beat me to it by 6 hours! :(

igrar#IM

I am using BlackBerry Unlimited Global Plan on BIS and hope to be able to continue using it on BlackBerry 10 since it is very convenient for a traveller like me. I used to be an iPhone user but I was shocked with the data roaming charges shown on my bill. So, BlackBerry is the best for SME

Graheem

This whole 'first' thing...wow. What, are you 6 years old? Not a slam just at you, Mr.Conviviality, but all you 'first' posters (except of course, those who are first, but don't narcissistically pronounce 'first!').

TheScionicMan

Completely wasted the "First!" post...

Fixed it for ya

BB_Bmore

Luxury tax to use BlackBerry. No biggie issue,every BlackBerry owner knows all about this.

Just bring  10 on already.

"Typed from the center of #Sandy"

Bobert_123

I'm in zone A B*tches!!!

Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes

Um its not an extra tax or cost. It just means you pay for BIS instead of a regular data plan.

max.ernst

Not true, at least not here in Germany. A BB data plan costs ~5€ more per month than a comparable data plan without BIS.
That means that you have to add 5x24=120€ (~150$) to the price of your device - a device that very probably will be much more expensive than its Android competitors to begin with.

boldkeyboardholic

not to mentioned the limited options...

We need a contract with one of the four carriers. I did some "research"* and did not find a way to avoid that. Even prepaid BIS from some others didn't work. It was 4,90-5,80 per month for just the internet but no service books/no emails.

No 20-30 Euro for Data+voice+text plans available when you use a BB. (if anyone has some info for Germany here, please share ;) )

Using a O2o at the moment I could save 50% of my monthly costs if I could switch to "Deutschland SIM - Kostenlimit" or one of the others...

fred1266

do the carriers sell the micro Sim or would i have to cut the Sim i currently use

Bla1ze

Carriers sell microSIM's.

extisis

they shouldn't charge for such things, if you have a plan with them. AT&T doesn't.

ferre_kun

carriers here open a pre order for micro sim card for iphone, while iphone is not selling that many here because of the over priced price tag lol

joyfulnoise5

Hi Bla1ze,

As always, thank you for the great information. I'm not sure if the microSIM has anything to do with the limit that is placed on the number of SMS recipients a user can text to, and if it doesn't, please forgive my error. With regared to the data plan, for those of us who have unlimited, do you know whether RIM will remove the restriction they have set in place to appease the carrier's limits of "Only 10 Recipients Allowed"? If we (the BlackBerry Nation) are paying for unlimited data, and BlackBerry has historically been a device by which business and personal users were able to send SMS messages to the masses, I would hope that with BB10, RIM would go back to the basics on that one. Just a thought and a question I have yet to see asked or answered with regard to BB10.

maple_geek

I just hope that RIM and the carriers will lower the price of the BES data plans for BB10. I'm with Rogers and own my own device, but I want to be on the BES network for my work so I have to pay at least $20 extra per month. Ridiculous. I can get an iPhone or Android device and pay a lot less in data plans which is really annoying and hard to convert any collegues that want to own their devices.

Double_J75

If there is BIS then it is safe to assume the data will flow through the NOC, and have data compression again? I wonder if that means we will have slightly slower data since it has to make an additional hop.

jonno_atamaniuk

Not likely, the NOC compresses data, meaning not only do we actually have a slightly faster speed of access, but also a less expensive bill at the end of the day (unless the carriers here in North America start charging more specifically for Blackberry access... which isn't likely).

diegonei

Sorry, but no. Put any BIS active BlackBerry device in 3G, no wifi, and do a head to head with any smartphone.

BIS forces the phone to go through the NOC before getting to the Internet and that is an added step.

Too bad, I was going to keep my data plan as it is (full unlimited BIS) but did hope for faster speeds for the average user.

ferre_kun

most likely yeah, since in US you have gigabytes/second of internet speed :p but for most of the world, it is still faster than regular speed ;)

i hope RIM will do something about it for you guys in fast connection countries ^^

Rootbrian

They never measure it in Mega/GigaBytes because bits, the value is higher, but means nothing when looking at it in Bytes.

Branta

The trade-off for keeping the NOC is data compression. That is an enormous cost benefit for international travellers who get stung with roaming charges. The extra cost of one month overseas can be more than most users pay for the rest of the year - but non-compressed devices will often run up 2-3x the charges for similar usage. I can live with a slight performance hit for that kind of gain.

Now wait for the dumbasses who say it doesn't matter because they never go out of state...

biggerCC

Actually it is a disadvantage for me. I travel abroad regularly and what I tend to do is put my German SIM in a dumbphone (for calling) and buy some cheap prepaid SIM from the country I'm visiting for my smartphone (which currently is a Sony Xperia S). That costs me less than 30 US$ (unlimited data, texting and voice included for 30 days) in most European countries, which is less than what I would have to pay my provider for using BIS abroad (with only a ridiculously small amount of data included).

ferre_kun

Then I'm sorry for you that your carrier being a cheapskate (or whatever the term is) by not giving yot better plans. That is on your carrier though, not RIM :)

What I think RIM may be able to do is working with carriers all over the world to allow travelers keep using their BIS while travelling abroad, by using local carrier/partner. That way travellers won't be charged with roaming fee. Or so I wish :p

ewakil12

So no BBM on Wi-FI :(

Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes

No that's not what this is saying. It means its going to stay the same as we have right now. If you have BIS and go somewhere with wifi and turn mobile network off, BBM will still work via wifi.

Fr3lncr

I was hoping that at least for regular consumers (non-enterprise), you wouldn't have to be on the BIS and could just use a regular data plan. It's not so much for cost (as they are the same at least for me) but for ease of use. There are really no benefits for the average consumer to be on BIS that I can see.

cjcampbell

It may be inconsequential, but I appreciate the fact that what I send using my phone is my business and nobody else's. It may not be a matter of corporate or national security, but it is what I consider private, and I feel better knowing that I will still be a part of the secure BB network.

biggerCC

You mean the "secure BB network" that RIM grants every government asking for access to?
For example India, Saudia Arabia, ... (http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/10/01/us-blackberry-idUSTRE6900FC201...)

How can that better be than an encrypted connection to your self-hosted mail server?

amaccuish

However, if using BES, all data is encrypted and can't even be accessed by RIM... Governments only get access to BIS data

cjcampbell

RIM doesn not grant every government access. That particular case was the only way they were going to be able to launch blackberry there as it was the only way they could appease the laws of the land. In the "free world", that is not the case.

jonno_atamaniuk

BIS compresses data as well... if you ever travel to another country, your data roaming charges are significantly lower... I see that as good reason right there :)

primusd

+1 for that. I travel all the time with data and manage to keep my charges well in check. I know others that use travel packs on their igadgets and consume them with a few days of use.

Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes

+1. I'm in germany right now and got a vodafone SIM with 200mb. God forbid I would have had to purchase who knows how much data if I had an iphone

BoldPreza

I for one am happy about this as I see the value of compressed data when I look at my monthly usage and the fact I don't need more than 500MB of data per month.

cjcampbell

I was just going to say that. I haven't ever come close to using the "whole" 500MB that I pay for. The added cost for the data compression through BIS pretty much compensates for the extra cost for subscribing to a larger data plan..... that, and it's running through a secure and encrypted server so I feel better about that too.

Plazmic Flame

So technically... carriers will still be able to lock a devices pin if it gets delinquent? Is this related??

I've been burned a few times buying BBs second hand and would really like to see an end to that...

Rootbrian

You bought a stolen blackberry those few times and didn't think twice to meet at a carrier store to verify if it wasn't blacklisted due to being reported lost/stolen.

vpodgurschi

How is that going to work for the Playbook?

axllebeer

I would like to know this as well....

OneGreenFerrigno

I'll tell you this much. If our wifi only Playbooks don't get bb10, I'm gonna drench it in gasoline, set it on fire and go buy a Android tablet. We better get it.

Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes

Its going to get bb10. That hasn't changed with the knowledge of this article. What now is the question is how a wifi only device will get bbm when you can only get bbm with bis

my.usernamegoeshere

The longer this bb10 wait takes the less I like what's coming.
It feels to me that bb10 is going to resemble anything but a Blackberry. I hate cuting and pasting on my playbook, the lack of native applications even a year and a half after being introduced. I'm tired of the cryptic error messages often shown on the browser and the fact that some major websites like ESPN show messages like "the playback of this video is not authorized on this device" or whatever.

My carrier doesn't carge extra for a BIS data plan, but that's not the same for every user.

RIM, it's no longer 2005. How can you expect to regain some marketshare share by adding an extra fee to your devices?

Last friday I swaped one of my blackberries from the old nextel network to a cheap android and plan to stay with my 9930 for some time.

xtremesniper

Most (if not all) of your complaints are PlayBook OS specific and will not be applicable on BB10 (especially the lack of native apps, which was very clearly a PlayBook OS problem since they relied too much on Adobe AIR).

I haven't seen a carrier charging more for a BIS data plan in years, and in a lot of cases it ends up being even cheaper than most typical data plans because carriers know that BB data is compressed and won't use as much.

I wouldn't worry too much about this news, given that to the end user it will mean almost no difference. The carrier rep just has to enter a different data plan code for BBs, as they currently do.

w0qj

+1k.

I'm shocked.

For a consumer, RIM no longer command a price premium for its BIS data plan. How can RIM hope to claw back market share if its monthly fee is much higher than comparable Android/iPhone data plans?

***I was hoping to get a BB10 device without a BIS data plan.

As another poster said, this looks less and less like the BlackBerry we liked and stayed loyal to. (No TrackPad pointpoint editing of text? etc.)

RIM risks throwing the baby out along with the bath water.

Rootbrian

No, they aren't. If you want a blackberry, pay for the data plan if you want data.

Also, CARRIERS SET THE PRICE FOR DATA PLANS. RIM doesn't.

BlackJack-21

Bring on Unlimited Data plans at competitive prices here in Canada's Westcoast. No Caps, No Overusage, No Searching for free Wifi. Make my life simple. One solid bill statement each month, with data that I don't ever have to worry about.

Cheers!

P.S will purchase BB10 outright if unlimited data plan is NOT offered. Otherwise will using free Wifi, it's everywhere you go.

Rootbrian

Ask the big three that.

annon91221

I do not care if they have BIS for bb10, what I do care about is when BIS network ever goes down they are able to switch the phones to regular internet at least as a back up. I have suffered one of the outages and without even being able to go on internet is a nightmare in that situation.

sk8er_tor

The BlackBerry logo on the top right of the screen during BlackBerry World gave that away.

I'm glad for BIS as well. Push and other services are what make BB great and efficient (and I'm not only talking about push email).

Andrew4life

I'm really getting fed up with RIM and their proprietory internet and apps.

You see, I'm on Rogers Prepaid, which means I don't have a data plan. (I'm a very light phone user and I don't call or use data a lot. I usually text a lot).
I like BB phones, but some of their apps won't work unless you have a BIS plan, e.g. twitter, facebook, etc.

I only know one or two people who have BBM, so that isn't worth getting for me.

I have been a strong defender of RIM for numerous reasons, but come BB10, if their phones are going to lock me out just because I don't have BIS, then it's not really my choice of whether I should get a BB or not. They kind of made the choice for me...............
Is it finally to take the plunge and go Android or try out Windows 8?

RubberChicken76

Proprietory apps? You mean like every other platform out there? iOS, Android, Windows Phone, BlackBerry 10 ... all have said types of apps!

Generally, the rule of thumb with mobile phones is that you need a 'mobile data plan' to go with them.

Andrew4life

No,because on every other platform you can use the apps over wifi, but not on the Blackberry. Apps created by RIM, lock you out unless you have a BIS. In fact, even with a data pass(non-BIS data), I cannot access the twitter or Facebook apps, I have to have specifically "BlackBerry Internet Service data".

It's the same crap that we have to deal with like phones that are locked to specific carriers. I buy a phone and I expect to be able to use it like everyone else. Meaning if my friend on Android can use the twitter app over wifi or with "normal data", I expect to do that with my BlackBerry.

zander2652

I'm currently an iphone user but I'm waiting to buy BB10. I'm wondering why would RIM not make BB10 phones that will require BIS and at the same time allow their apps to be used over wifi when the user chooses to do so? All the other smartphones would let users use their apps over wifi so why not also BB10? I'm not sure I understand why RIM won't allow their users that option.

I'm sure people would still buy BB data plans because users won't always have wifi access everywhere. I mean all the iphone and android users still pay for data plans even though they can use their apps over wifi. Right?

Rootbrian

It's the developers who made the apps, who can choose if they want their apps to use BIS only, cellular only, bis and cellular only, or cellular data and wifi.

RIM doesn't make the third party applications or set rules for what protocols they use to access data.

Rootbrian

App developers set the protocols the apps use, NOT RIM. Blame the developers for that.

biggerCC

As an active BB10 developer I can tell you that there currently is no way of setting a channel for data. If BIS will be required for the final hardware it's everything but the developer's fault.

Check out the API documentation for verification: e.g. https://developer.blackberry.com/cascades/reference/qnetworkaccessmanage....

I'm currently even using the BB Push services in one of my apps without any BIS active. It (currently) works great with every SIM card or via WiFi. There's no flag "over BIS only"...

arhcangel

Try popping a SIM with a voice only plan into just about any smart phone in the US these days and your next bill will have a note informing you they have upgraded your plan to accommodate your smart phone. They do not allow voice only plans on data capable devices!? I have seen it on both AT&T and Verizon.

Andrew4life

I don't know about the US, but I have never heard of that in Canada. We are free to switch our phones at any time as long as it is compatible with the carrier (proper frequency), and it is not locked. Regardless of what plan we have. They might tell you that you need a data plan to fully use the phone, but they don't automatically upgrade you and charge you.

I am also speaking purely about Rogers prepaid right now, where Rogers forces you to get a monthly plan if you want to get BIS data. You can pay for a data pass, but that will do you no good for apps like twitter and facebook. Browser still works, but sometimes apps are just easier than having to use the browser.

Rootbrian

Well, you've got to complain to rogers about that. When the facebook or twitter applications were made, the developers chose to make it use BIS data. RIM didn't.

Oh and as far as I know, twitter and facebook both work via wifi. If you want a better application, there's always Ubersocial (formally Ubertwitter), which the developer gives users the choice (in the options) to choose between any protocol used to access data, and it works with wifi. There is both a free and a paid version, you don't need Appworld or BIS to use it either. Launch the browser, search for ubersocial for blackberry using bing/yahoo/google (depending on default search engine selected), download it from the site.

marko868

Disappointing should be able to work wi-fi only like EVERYBODY else already can.

Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes

And EVERYBODY else uses 3x the data

biggerCC

This is really sad news. Over here in Europe you can get unlimited voice & data for as low as 20 Euros (US$ 25) per month. Many carriers do not offer BBIS or charge an absurd amount for offering it.
Being the average customer I see the two options:
- buy an iPhone or Android device
- get a BlackBerry and pay up to 50% more for being able to basically access the same features.

That probably won't work very well here. Customers (not talking about companies) simply won't pay more than than they would with the "established" smartphone players...

I was really hoping, RIM would change this policy (see PlayBook). Now I should consider selling my few symbolic company shares, simply because I think this news is a deal-breaker and will stop the company from becoming successful in the consumer market (again)...

cjcampbell

If you currently have a blackberry, there is no change from what was announced to what you have now.

boldkeyboardholic

Yeah But This Is Bad enough. AT least here in Germany. BIS sucks because You Can Use only expense contracts directly with One of The Four carriers.

I pay Over 200, More likekly 300 Euro per year More then I would because I can't Use One of The 20-30 EUR full Data, voice, Text Plans. I pay Over 50.

In Germany BIS Is The biggest issue with blackberrys.

Rootbrian

It's the biggest issue with carriers overcharging for BIS when people choose BlackBerry.

biggerCC

I used to have a BB, but moved to Android about a year ago, simply because I didn't see any progress in the RIM product line.
The positive result was that I ended up paying about half of what I used to, because without the requirement for BIS, I was able to chose my contract from every provider or reseller out there.

So, switching back to BB10 probably won't work for me and I'm one of the (probably few) guys that were actually waiting eagerly for the new OS. How should they persuade some happy iOS user who never used a BB before to exchange their handset and actually pay more?

boldkeyboardholic

Yeah that was it for me. When I have enough of My 9900 I will leave that bad contract I Have and Use One of The a Lo cheaper full Plans of The many Option you Have here in Gwermany when you habe Not a BB...

This sucks.

Maybe I'll Have a deeper Look Into The new LG Nexus...

Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes

50% more cost (if true) but you get 300% better data use/compression...

boldkeyboardholic

Data compression Is Over rated. You can't reduce The size of a youtube Video Or a jpg File (Not much To nothing)

And with The webkit Browser its also Not much Data compression on "real" sites.

But This impact a Data Plan much More As 1000 Standard emails.

I Have AT lest EDGE/2G with 200+kbits and usually 1mbit bandwidth.

and BTW I can't Upgrade My current Data Plan For The BB Or It's just so expsenive, 20 Euro/26uSD For 800MB...

In The mentioned Options when I wouldnt need BIS its also much much cheaper. 20 Euro Is 5GB There Most of The Time. 1GB Max. 10 Euro.

Your Point Is wrong, As I mentioned I'm Not in US Or Canada.

Rootbrian

You can thank the carrier for overcharging for BIS services. DON'T BLAME RIM. It's NOT their fault.

Rootbrian

Blame the carriers, not rim.

biggerCC

I blame RIM because they force us (and the carriers) to rely on BIS. Why not make it optional for those who really are into "data compression" (which is far less effective than advertised) and BIS (not BES) "security" (which is by no means better than an end-to-end encryption).

Stychill

i was hoping to be able to use bbm on wifi the way i can with my storm 2, but i guess if i upgrade then i have to leave that behind

Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes

You can still use bbm on wifi. I don't know where people are getting this from its going to be the same as now. If you have BIS SOMEWHERE you can use it on wifi only elsewhere, or at home too.

Shadberry Bold

How about carriers bringing back unlimited data exclusively for BB10 devices?!?!?!?!?! Let's say $30 for consumers $50 for enterprise!!!!!!!!

Vic_Franklyn

Do you (or anyone else) know if you have to have a data plan for the wifi only Playbook? Playbook is wifi only, so how will Playbook get BB10 if you can't have a carrier? Does this mean no BB10 for wifi Playbook?
________________________________________
I’d rather be a Black Sheep than an iSheep any day.

OneGreenFerrigno

If this shit happens then it means bb10 for the 3g Playbook but no bb10 for us wifi PLaybook users. bb10 best be there for us wifi Playbook customers and if is isn't then Blackberry better design its tombstone now as this shit will drive there stocks through the floor and kill them. Bye bye RIM :-(

Rootbrian

Where did you get that from? WIFI PLAYBOOK DOESN'T NEED A DATA PLAN.

koolrosh

I was thinking the same thing. RIM should work with carriers to bring unlimited data exclusively for BB phones. Since data is compressed, people will probably be using less data than current limits.

The benefits of BIS will then be easier to explain to those users. I think RIM should also provide an App that shows how much data you've used and how much data you have "saved" because of the compression.

ferre_kun

I am luckier than you then, all carriers here at my place provide unlimited data plan for blackberry from $7 to $12 per month (but not include streaming :p).

If I'm not wrong until now there's only one carrier that provide limited streaming for blackberry. Cheapskate carriers, won't give me ability to stream without having to connect to wifis lol.

Rootbrian

It's been said more than once time and time again... THE PLAYBOOKS, ALL OF THEM, WILL GET BLACKBERRY 10!! WHERE are you getting that misinformation from?

TheScionicMan

$50 for enterprise? We only pay $20 for unlimited smartphone package now...

PostMortem

Anyone that was thinking otherwise was just setting themselves up for disappointment. I mean, that's where they get the bulk of their income.

My biggest gripe from using a BlackBerry was that I couldn't use most of the apps without having a BlackBerry plan. I soon got over it because of the benefits it gives me, but I'm still not happy about it.

For those out there who say that you need a Data plan on any smartphone, that is not true. If you buy an Android or iPhone outright or have one laying around after upgrading to a new phone, you can still use the apps that require data by just connecting to via WiFi. We can't do that with most apps on a BlackBerry when you just have WiFi.

Alas, I will continue to use my BlackBerry phones until I can find something that works better for me and so far it is not Android or iPhone. I

koolrosh

As long as BB plans are cheaper people rather be connected rather than using Wifi. Nowadays, most apps need a connection in order to work and many people that I know that use Wifi-only iPhones are looking at getting a plan, even a small 100 MB plan just so they can use things like Maps, Instant Msging Apps, etc. Things that don't use much data but do not work without a connection.

So BIS won't be a problem if it comes with BB specific plans.

Rootbrian

It's developers who chose what protocols their apps can or can't use. RIM doesn't set those rules.

ugbadboy

For me, this is honestly good news! A "social package", no Push mail on your BB is about $8 a month for unlimited data, (that's a prepaid fee, voice and SMS are charged separately), and it covers all my internet needs once you put my PlayBook in the equation. Am averaging about 2-3 GB a week of data, and for the similar 3GB a month for "normal data" you're paying up to $32, its a massive saving in the long run!
Am glad they are keeping BIS around!

boldkeyboardholic

Thanks Now i Can Go without doubts/Bad feelings.

I will Never Ever let Reduce My Options with carriers because of something like BIS anymore. Not with a new Device.

BIS Is so bad supported in Germay, It runs only on the carrier directly not on chaeper/better priced

Also I woudn't want To Have a brick when RIMs Server will/might shutting down.

So bye '(

Rootbrian

Well, goodbye and good riddence. You could have just called your carrier and asked that they give you a better deal. Blaming RIM because developers chose to make their apps not use wifi, is narrow minded.

See you in wherever you'll be going.

felberry83

I don't understand those complains about the BIS:

1. With my BIS I have access to unlimited web browsing, downloads and uploads(yes i downloaded up to 5Gb of software, music, video,documents ...) emails, facebook, i even watched the blackberry jam americas keynote on my small curve 3g without any additional fee!

2. In Wifi mode, I can still use bbm, and all others blackberry apps (facebook, twitter, etc) without any stress!

So, as for me BIS on bb10 it's a good news...unlimited internet access for a small amount per month.

*Blackberry By Choice till I Die*

musical1806

Wow....I have never had a BB phone without BIS. Didn't even enter my head to try. Is it a deal breaker? Nah as long as i dontneed a special case to make it work and the maps are good lmao. Every phone has its +ves and -ves people. Just deal with it. Consumers dont give a flying fudge about bis. Heres your phone, it costs x per month, are you happy, yes, sold. So stop with the doom and gloom.

Now BB10 on PB. That shit best be there. Maybe thats one of the reasons for the delay, having to code a wifi only BB10 for PB. Otherwise that will be a deal breaker..

See how annoying selecting on a touch only device is, well I love my trackpad. It is a must on the qwerty phones. Just make the damn thing taller to match the touch only device and leave my damn buttons alone.

As for BB10 and BIS its +ve out way the few negatives and imho.... If your only complaint is you Can't afford it you shouldn't have it. Sorry but people who get shit done usually EARN.

As much as I want BB10 to be a success I don't want, need, or require another Apple clone. I want a keyboard (with trackpad), I want security (BIS/BES), I want a mobile communications solution.

Do I need a super fantastic camera solution? No I have a state of the art camera.

Do I need "retina" displays in my pocket, no I have a state of the 50" plasma.

Do I need a complete mobile gaming solution? No if I did I would buy one........

Do I need the best mobile communications solution? Yes and in my opinion I have it with my BB/BIS combo and it just needs to keep getting better (mobile printing solution would be good)

Am I a fanboy? No I am a BB user.

Rant over

OneGreenFerrigno

@musical1806 said...''Now BB10 on PB. That shit best be there. Maybe thats one of the reasons for the delay, having to code a wifi only BB10 for PB. Otherwise that will be a deal breaker..''

I'll tell you this much. If RIM doesn't give us bb10 for our wifi Playbooks I'm literally taking it to my backyard, drenching it in gasoline and setting it on fuckin fire then going out and getting the best 7 inch ice creme Android I can.

No way Blackberry is stupid enough to do this shit to us. There's a ton of us wifi Playbook users out here. They do that to us and lose us as customers thats gonna be hell to pay for RIM when they go tits-up.

Rootbrian

LISTEN HERE!!! BLACKBERRY 10 WILL BE ON THE PLAYBOOK!!! Didn't you read the blogs?

snowsquirrel

This is just about a deal breaker for me. I already have buyer lined up for my HTC One X on BB10 launch. I am ready to rejoin the BB fold. Everything have seen and heard about the platform has been good to me. But not this.

The 3G speeds on my BB very slow compared to 3G (HSPDA+) speeds on my other devices. It is especially noticeable when tethering, as then the slowness can't just be blamed on the browser.

The shite known as BIS is also apparent when I am on a rockin fast wi-fi connection, and some of my apps seem to be chugging along slowly when accessing the internet. This is because the are continuing to use BIS, even though Wi-Fi is available to them.

With BB OS 4 through 7 dev's could (had to) specify what type of connection you want. It was kind of a PITA, and I suspect most dev's just said "we'll keep it simple and always use BIS".

I wouldn't be surprised if this info proves to be incorrect, or RIM backs off on it. When they are trying to regain market share, the last thing they should be doing is placing restrictions on both carriers and users.

Why rule out customers that only want voice, and get their data via wifi? A lot of parents do that for their kid's phones. I often have my sim in another phone I am testing out, and this would mean my BB10 devices is a brick with the sim out. An iPhone or Android device is only missing voice without the sim.

I think a lot of carriers won't want the overhead of running BIS servers anymore. They used to be a BIG moneymaker for them, as they just marked up the operating cost and passed it on to the customer. But now most customers won't stand for an extra cost, and will just get a different device meaning carriers won't be able to pass on that cost anymore, and thus will be eating that cost. They aren't going to like that, and will push back on RIM. BES is another scenario, and their may be a case for it being valid.

Another reason is the all bad publicity RIM has recently received over their BlackBerry network services going up and down like a whores pants.

Really, there is just so many reasons that this is a bad idea, if RIM is to survive they have to see it. They only reason to keep BIS is cash flow. But I think using that reason is very short sighted, and will end up costing them customers.

Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes

+1 for already having a buyer lined up for your android.

amaccuish

Unless you're using an app like Tether, tethering data doesn't go through BIS, and so your tethering speeds are not afftected by the speed of BIS. If you're getting slow data speeds while tethering, then your device or carrier network is slow in itself, nothing to do with BIS.

pacman84

Most of my friends straight up laugh at me when I tell them I have to pay 5 € extra every month, just to use a BlackBerry. I was hoping this would change with BB10... This is a huge mistake on RIM's side, if you ask me.
-pac

biggerCC

Not only that you have to pay extra, but many users don't even have the option of getting the BIS option on their contract or with their prepaid SIM.

Rootbrian

That only applies to ROGERS. Not WIND or bell, or fido, or telus.

Rootbrian

No, this is what carriers do. NOT RIM.

jic999

Just hope the screen on the N- Device ( Qwerky ) is bigger then what it is shown. The Victory leak picture of the Qwerky phone has the screen at 3.25inch , I would like more in the 3.50 inch.
Then you have a power BB10

JC

ferre_kun

for those of you who have BIS-related complaints, you should know that BIS is one of two major income for RIM, the other is the device sales. And BIS is what makes realtime connection is possible without you have to pay expensive for continuous & realtime connection. Different with most of any other apps on other platform. most of them are not realtime connection, but on demand. which only will cost you if you use it.

so if you want to be able to use blackberry's realtime connection apps on regular data connection (not BIS), be prepared to be charged more by your carriers as it is not within the contract between RIM and your carriers. BIS is a special line only for blackberry on any carriers who have signed contract with RIM, so the user can get realtime connection 24/7 for some amount of monthly fee.

if what you want is to be able to use blackberry's realtime apps over wifi, you are wanting to make RIm lost some income needed for it's operation. you want RIM to die.
if you want to be able to use realtime connection apps on regular data connection but don't want to be charged for continuous use of the connection even when you're not using it, there is no way any carrier will give you that. they will be stupid if they do that.
if what you complain is the slow connection of BIS, that's not on RIM, but your carriers. The stability of your carrier's 3G connection is depending to your carriers. not RIM.

biggerCC

Interesting arguments. However: How many users are willing to pay extra to "keep RIM alive". I mean: push services, come on. Everybody in the market has push capabilities built-in nowadays. They might not be super-compressed, but who cares? 3G and 4G are capable enough for solid push services on both the iOS as well as the Android side and (more or less) unlimited data is a bargain - at least over here in Europe.
What scenarios do you need push for?
Mails for sure - but that's supported on every platform now. And BBM of course, where so many alternatives have grown recently like the platform-independent WhatsApp.

ferre_kun

I think it's either I didn't explain clearly or you didn't read it carefully.

I wasn't talking about the push application but more on the connection. Yes, blackberry is not the only brand who have push apps, but is there a better push apps than what's on blackberry? I don't think so, because blackberry operates on a special line, BIS. Which allow you to be connected continuously 24/7 without having to pay the regular data connection fee. While if you use push apps on regular data connection, you will be charged more expensive than if you're on BIS, unless you're on carrier's unlimited data plan (which I can't understand why you don't want BIS that also have unlimited data plan here at where I live,but you want to use carrier's unlimited data plan).

Sure you can subscribe to regular unlimited data plan, but that mean you cut one of RIM's income and give it in full to carriers. While what RIM get from BIS is also shared with the carriers. You kill RIM if you want BIS to be erased. Oh if where you live doesn't have carriers that provide unlimited data plan for blackberry, go bug your carriers to give you blackberry unlimited data plan. Because it's on the carriers, not on RIM.

And, if you look at most of the complaints, it's mostly not about rejecting BIS so they can use carrier's data connection, but they want to be able to use wifi,like what most android user do. And as I've already explained, you will (slowly) kill RIM if you want that. You want blackberry but you want to kill RIM?

biggerCC

Do Samsung, HTC, Apple and all the others die from not getting a piece of the carrier's pie? I don't think so.
Regarding the BIS push/network quality: If I put a BB Bold (3G) next to my Sony, the Android phone tends to receive incoming (corporate as well as GMail) mails a couple of seconds faster. Not to mention the browsing speed/experience. I also didn't experience WhatsApp to be slower than BBM. Furthermore the Sony also works when I plug any foreign prepaid SIM in when travelling abroad. And it continues to works when - for any reason - the BB infrastructure is down once again.

24/7 data was expensive the old days. But nowadays "regular" (non-BIS) browsing is really cheap - if not already included in about any smartphone contract - and bandwidth not an issue any more. If I'd kindly ask my provider today to add BIS to their portfolio, they'd probably laugh because of the 1% market share and send me a list of phones I can properly use on their network.

It's a little sad if the only justification of paying an extra amount is to keep RIM alive.

ferre_kun

:) if you want to compare, from your list none that you can compare. Apple is not only on smartphone bussiness. They have other resources that can keep them survive should their smartphone collaps. Samsung too. You think the smartphone is what made samsung huge? Htc did not sell data from the start. Only blackberry does. So none can be compared. Because no brands other than blackberry will suffer if carriers want their pie as a whole. That's why I said you will (slowly) kill it if you want BIS/BES out of the picture.

Regarding the network quality, it's not on RIM, it's on the carrier. RIM can not control the network, carriers control the network. What RIM can control is the data server.

If you own a carrier, and faced with two guys. One have data plan who you share the profit with someone who own the data center, and the other guy subscribed to exact same data plan only the difference is you don't need to share the profit to third party, who would you prioritize? Obviously the one that give you more money.

Though it is one of RIM's biggest homework, cooperating with carriers to ensure fast and cheap data connection. As for the rest of the world (the ones that still have slow and expensive connection), blackberry is the one that we need.

Last question from me, if you like something/someone, would you want it/that someone alive, or demand more from it/that someone? :)

Because if you don't like blackberry, you don't have to try your best to demand from it. If you need blackberry but can not/will not pay the data you used on their data center, there are more than a lot of alternatives that may suit your demand. If you think it's sad if you have to pay a little extra amount as justification to keep RIM alive, then don't :) I don't pay for extra amount, I pay less than what I would have to pay if I don't use blackberry. I want RIM to stay alive. I need RIM to stay alive. But that's just me :p

Anyway I hope your carrier can tap your shoulder and give you cheaper data plan for your sadness :)

ferre_kun

Oops, double post :p my carrier knew I was making them bad XD

Rootbrian

Did you even read what he posted? RIM DOESN'T SET CARRIER PRICING FOR DATA PLANS!!! THE CARRIERS DO!!

snowsquirrel

Your argument about RIM dying is not valid. I want RIM to survive because:
1. They make hardware people want.
2. People pay for BB Fusion to manage their corp. mobile devices.
3. People pay for the BES add on.

I don't want them to survive because consumers (not corp users) subsidize them through BIS payments.

Your argument about their push being better than others, is completely valid.I regularly switch between iOS, Android, and BB, and I doubt anything will ever touch BB's push... if the reason for that is BIS (which it likely is) then the solution is simple.

Make BIS optional, and make it transparent to the user and most importantly the developer. Make it mandatory that any app in the store works the same on wifi as it does on BIS (aside from speed of push).

Xpwmata

This doesn't concern me personally as my carrier plan allows me to switch between regular data and bis at no additional cost, however I would like the option to turn BIS off and use regular data. To all those touting data compression for travelling, roaming costs are still very high compared with simply purchasing a local sim and just popping in and using country-specific data rates.

When I travel to the US I use my android phone with t-mobile sim with pay-by-the-day rate plan. The costs are a pittance compared with roaming, -even with data compression. Aside from the US, this has also been my experience with travelling to Japan, Korea, China, Germany, Russia, England..etc..very high roaming costs and many loop-holes to get local sims working with data.

Looking forward to BB10, but it seems ill still need to keep an android/win8/iphone nearby for my travels *sigh*.

Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes

Um even if you go somewhere and buy a different sim you still have to worry about compression. I just bought a vodafone sim in germany and I'm glad I only needed to pay for 200mb instead of 600mb. 200mb is all I need because of compression.

Xpwmata

UMMM honestly, I have no idea why you quoted my because your reply is not at all applicable to me. Please learn how to read.

gitchies

I love this...lets bring out some cheese and wine for some people....

Everyone complains, for some comments, the people that actually understand it. RIM is a business, they need to make money just like any other business....whats the point of a BB without data, use it however you like....but just don't expect it to be the full experience...
like owning a Lambo and complaining about the mpg.....what do you want.

We all seem to want everything for nothing...bottom line. I see it everywhere, then you complain about lost jobs going overseas....why, because you complain and say its too expensive....so really we all do it ourselves...

Yeah people in Canada are fed up with cell plans, iphone being 80 per month, bb being 70 per month...and no unlimited data....but we all just take it anyways.
No different then gas being $5.40 a gallon here, case of beer being $50, cigarettes being $11 a pack....
Just deal with and quit complaining....my 2 cents.

mrbquick

This sucks because I just switched from Unlimited Data to that Damn Shared Data Plan with 5 people on my line, which is hitting at $300.00. Now I have to add a blackberry data plan which is another fee. I could have stayed on the Unlimited Data in which I had a BB plan. Can someone enlighten me on this and tell me that I am wrong.

ferre_kun

I don't know how your carrier calculate their plans, but from what you wrote I think you should've stayed on your unlimited data plan as it also have blackberry plan :)

timmy t

I thinks somne apps should work over wifi but BBM should be a subscription service. After all, people pay money for text messaging.
I do think I should be able to get emails to my non-BB accounts through wifi, for sure.

biggerCC

That's actually an interesting idea, but will most likely lead to people not using BBM anymore. Free alternatives like WhatsApp basically do the same thing, but are available for free on all platforms and therefore reach all your friends...

Rootbrian

BIS is the subscription for e-mail and BBM.

swervable

Well that sucks. When my company dropped BB support my bill dropped by $20. I was hoping to stay on that plan and get the new bb phone. That's not going to happen now. That is such a disappointment. Oh well thank you BlackBerry. I will enjoy my playbook but I will have to look for a phone some where else.

Everyone but me hates BlackBerry at my work.

cjcampbell

BIS is not the same as BES. All current BB go through the BIS and corporate use BES. Your bill dropped due to the fact that you were taken off the BES. BIS is simply calculated into your bill by the carrier. You don't see it on your bill.

Belbarid

Okay, something that I've been wondering about, and hope this doesn't get lost in the cloud of comments.

I'm on StraightTalk, which doesn't support BlackBerry. I take that to mean they don't support BIS or BES, which is fine. They do, however, have an APN and are a GSM service. I've been wondering about the idea of getting a SIM card, putting in the APN and using one of the 3rd party tools such as AstraSync or Funambol.

Does this news seem to indicate that this approach won't work? I'd love to get back to BlackBerry, but I'm not paying full carrier prices to do it.

Andrew4life

As I was complaining in one of my postings above, a lot of Blackberry Apps will NOT WORK without a Blackberry Data Plan(BIS), it actually works for a few hours, then when the Blackberry phone realizes you're not on a BIS plan, it stops working and displays a message saying you don't have a proper data plan.(Then you have to do a battery pull to get it to work again)
One thing that will work is the browser, and thats about it.

Rootbrian

It's the DEVELOPERS who choose what protocols apps used to access data. RIM isn't to blame.

Twitter, facebook and others work with wifi, including the later version of Appworld.

Rootbrian

You'll have to talk to StraightTalk support and staff, or rally with other who use them, to get BIS/BES supported.

needforbbx

I thought Blackberry 10 was suppose to come to the playbook?

But then so was BBM and you can see where that is....

Will have to wait for further info from RIM, as this quote is discussing "BlackBerry 10 launch devices"

Rootbrian

BB10 is coming to the playbook, regardless if it's the 3G/4G/LTE or wifi one.

gallopiton

my concern now is, does this mean that the wifi pb is not getting bb10? if someone has reliable info please share... rim said that pb would be supported by bb10, but if you think about it that could have meant the 4g pb, and then, wasn't a lie stating the support for pb...

biggerCC

Perhaps it will get BB10, but only a "light" version without any PIM built in, like in the ol' bridge days. ;)

gallopiton

if that's the case, would be terrible, since you are not getting the whole software (and who knows which capabilities are going to be left out)... but i believe that you are right, we will have two bb10 for two different pb's... that kind of sucks...

Rootbrian

Wrong you are. It will get the same BB10 the phones will get.

Rootbrian

Yes, it will get BB10. The whole damn thing. Ignore the ones saying it won't, because RIM said it would.

Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes

How is bbm going to work on pb while bridged if its native. Two seprate bbm windows? One for phone one for pb?

trailracer618

I'm in the US on ATT with a 300 mb plan. Unless I'm missing something, there is no difference in price between the regular data plans and the BB plans. Given the choice between the two, I'll take the compressed data that BB offers.

ayumu

I activated an old BlackBerry on BES a few weeks ago at ATT, and as I understood it at the time a BIS plan added no extra charge to your ATT data plan. A BES plan added an extra 20 dollars a month.

TheScionicMan

But when we have ATT iPhones accessing our EAS, they require a more expensive enterprise plan and not the cheaper personal plan. so it's not really a BB-only thing. We've gotten notices saying they a line was on the wrong plan and they would be moving it due to EAS access. With VZW, we have a discount plan that is the same for any smartphone.

cjcampbell

All I keep hearing is people worrying about extra costs and RIM needing to charge to stay afloat. I am not in the know, so to speak, but I don't see it this way. What seems to be completely overlooked is the security of running through BIS. This is something that I fully endorse and am thankful for. I may not "need" it but I certainly like it. I don't fill in my SIN number on credit apps for that reason... odds of anything happening because of it are slim to none but I feel better not doing so. Same goes for RIM and it's security features for the general users. I just feel better know that my business is my business and nobody else has access to it. I am happy that RIM will continue to filter through the BIS servers as it always has.

abrax

This was the news I was afraid of, and I really hoped RIM would finally dump.

I even wouldn't care paying a small monthly subscription fee along with a yearly contract, but using my phone without all the hassles of BIS.

Just to name some of the reasons why I DON't need BIS:
1. the hassle with BIS outages
2. difficulties with phone activation, especially when you get a second hand, or swap cards
3. inability to use a local card with cheap internet for roaming when abroad; without BIS in this case the phone is almost unusable

As a result of last one, roaming is actually much more expensive than it could be. I don't need data compression and still pay several euros (in EU) every day in roaming for normal usage, but would rather purchase a cheap prepaid card of the given country with 500MB or 1GB.
BIS in this case forces me to stay with my home carrier and pay for expensive roaming data or also expensive daily/weekly roaming package with limited traffic. Even if I find a pre-paid BIS card in a foreign country, issues with 2.) can happen, and re-registering can make a hassle.

Why I need to accept all of this when all the other platforms are free of this annoyance, and work with a flat internet as every device should?

And I could just list some many more reasons and points where BIS (and BES, at least as a plan) seems as a total annoyance which could be avoided.

I think if RIM would like to survive it should forget about their exclusivity and high position they thought they had few years ago, allowing themself the luxury of adding such a monthly charge and annoyance to their users. They should rather keep things as smooth as possible to compete with the others who are eating their market anyways, and dump this whole nonsense of BIS.

I'm still a BlackBerry fanatic and wait eagerly for BB10, but BIS is what I hate the most about Blackberry from the first day I got it, now for almost 3 years.

LuayS

Agreed! All I want to do is unlock my phone and be able to access my data using a third party sim when I'm roaming. I do not want to pay a stupid outrageous travel pack fee.

For example 10mb from Rogers (Canada) to roam in US is $30 how ridiculous is that.

When there are providers that offer pay as you go sim cards with unlimited text,talk and data for $4/day if you use their sim card.

I really hope blackberry will provide that option!

red72

Duh!!!! Just give me my BB10 already will you.

ayumu

If BB10 uses Active Sync it seems to me that BIS/BES and the NOC are not absolutely needed. Does any one know of a technical reason BB10 phones would need to have a BIS/BES data plan rather than just an internet connection? This does not seem like its going to be good PR for RIM. Does Apple charge extra for their cloud services associated with the iPhone?

cjcampbell

Apple offers 5GB for free in their icloud. After that, they start charging.

mf10

Thanks RIM for making the decision switching to a Lumia easier.

lionheartsimon

Why ? Because you think that using data with a lumia will cost you less ? A blackBerry data and other data plan costs the exact same thing in Canada, the only difference is the way data is handled with BlackBerry ... You'll spend data more efficiently and it will be more secure. What's not to love ?

studio37th

Because I will be able to use ANY app without limitation of data plan. ANY application (Facebook, Twitter, Maps etc). BB are hammering the nail in their own coffin. BB good by

Rootbrian

How narrow minded of you. THOSE APPS WORK ON WIFI YOU KNOW.

See ya, wouldn't ever want to be ya.

studio37th

WiFi?!?!?!? But why I have to use BB with WiFi????)))) With WiFi I can use Nokia3310/Motorola 398 etc AND Google Nexus 7 (or iPad) WITHOUT ANY Limitation (WITH EXCELLENT NAVIGATION/MULTIMEDIA/BOOKREADING SOFTWARE)!!!! No extra cost!

mjgallaway

So does this mean data compression or not?

cjcampbell

Yes. All will be the same as it is now. (from my understanding anyway)

mjgallaway

Awesome. Hope you're right. Waaaaay cheaper this way. 500GB for a BB is plenty whereas droid and apple you need more.

cjcampbell

I think you mean 500MB but I hear ya. That's what I have and iPhone users I know are in shock when I tell them that I've never even come close to using it all.

iosephus

That's the last drop for me, I've never been happy with having the credentials for my accounts stored on RIM servers. Stop saying BIS is inherently more secure, it has a good track record as far as I know, but it's another single point of failure in terms of service and security (besides the device itself), probably an Android device can be setup with a sufficient level of security if you take care.

On Nov 13 the Nexus 4 is coming out, my birthday is also on Nov: There is a good chance of my Bold 9790 and Playbook going for sale...

Rootbrian

Goodbye. Have a great day in wherver you are.

Rootbrian

Holy monkey farts! There are sure allot of trolls hating on this post. The two misleading people about BB10 not on the playbook, the one saying All carriers don't have prepaid BIS data, the ones wanting FREE DATA (theft basically), the ones saying they're leaving blackberry who don't even have one at all probably.

Blackberry is my choice, since the 8130, I havennt looked back. I'm happy to know the bb10 devices, will have BIS. Do I care about outages? No, shit happens, it happens to anything. Nothing has ever gone without an outage happening, be it ISP's, cellular networks and cable TV services.

Now for data. If you don't want to pay for it, DO NOT Expect to get it for free by trying to steal it by means of servicebook injection, "hacking" or spoofing services. IT DOESN'T WORK. For those complaining about CARRIERS ripping you off, COMPLAIN TO THE CARRIERS about it. Because IT IS NOT RIM'S FAULT!!

If your applications don't work without BIS, it's the DEVELOPERS who chose to limit data access to BIS or wap/cellular data, or wifi, or all three (wap/cellular, BIS, wifi). DO NOT blame RIM for it. Instead, be more productive and get in contact with the developers who MADE those apps you so dearly need for wifi or cellular data only.

Thanks for taking the time to view my points. I hate it when those spread misinformation or outright LIE to people on here too.

biggerCC

Of course you are free to repeat it as many times as you'd like to, but your "facts" about developers do not add any truth.

Feel free to check out the current BB10 API documentation, for example for native applications:

https://developer.blackberry.com/cascades/reference/qnetworkaccessmanage...

or even the BB Push service on WebWorks:

https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/apis/blackberry.push.html

If you find any evidence that BB10 developers (not talking about prior OS, where you are right) can choose, which "lines" are to be used for their data transmissions, please let me know.

jeryf

That's what I hate, the Blackberry BIS or BES data plan.
RIM's worst decision. Without the freedom to choose a data plan new system will not reach the success. BIS and BES architecture is obsolete.

iosephus

It's all about choice, I see the great value of BES in the enterprise, and the value BIS can have for some users, but if it does have value, people who find it attractive will buy it. On the other hand, if you are locked to it, it's a completely different situation. And it's not only about poorly developed apps, many services work only through BIS by design: Email being the most important one! (Yes, you can use a third party client, but then it makes less sense to have a BB).

And from a security and privacy point of view, most of us don't really know what are the real implications of a great part of our data traffic going through RIM servers, despite all the mumbo-jumbo dogmatic talk about how secure the platform is.

cjcampbell

There's something I am having a problem with.... I am fairly new to this site yet have used my BB for years. Of what I have been reading on this site, all is pro RIM (with the odd gripe but that's normal). If BIS is such a HUGE deal, then why are you all with them to begin with? It's only now that it's an announcement that the same protocol will be moving forward with the new platform, that people are coming out of the works to complain about it and calling it a deal breaker. We've all had options for years and have stuck around because of our phones and what they do and how they help us do what we need to do. If I, for years on end, am not happy with a product or service, I move on. If I put up with what makes me unhappy for years on end, then I should probably go see a counsellor as I have some serious self worth issues. BB and RIM make me happy and I am proud to support them now and moving forward.

iosephus

It's easy cjcampbell: Any option has pros and cons, and the situation in which the pros outweight the cons, can change at some point. And by the way, the pros/cons balance strongly depends on what the competition is offering, and this does change rapidly nowadays.

Anyone expecting people to make choices for life or stop reevaluating periodically the cost/benefit of their choices to see whether the conditions under which the choices were made still hold, does need counselling IMO.

Have a nice day...

cjcampbell

Fair enough. I just believe, by reading what has been posted so far, that most, not all but most, believe that this is going to be a new charge that they are having to incur. Here in Canada, we don't see the charge. It is already included with the plan from the carrier.

dfb8085

why would a BB10 device need a blackberry plan. isn't BIS a thing of the past? Thats why we wil have to live with exchange email. I don't think everything will be pushed through the blackberry servers with BB10 but I could be totally off base