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< >

Clearing up the confusion: BES and BlackBerry 10

Want to know what does the switch to ActiveSync mean for enterprise users? Read on. 

BES 10
By Team CrackBerry on 23 Aug 2012 04:16 pm EDT
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On Tuesday Research In Motion published a blog post talking about how enterprise messaging is handled on the PlayBook and BlackBerry 10. The article RIM posted was clearly in response to a story from BGR earlier that day.

The BES and BlackBerry 10 story can be a confusing one to follow, but it's one that has been unraveling throughout 2012. While the BGR story didn't deliver any new news, it prompted us to want to clear up some of the confusion that's out there.

These are the key points regarding the roll out of BlackBerry 10 devices in enterprise...


  • For enterprise mobile device management, BlackBerry 10 devices will require the new BlackBerry Enterprise Server 10 (BES 10). 
  • BES 10 is not backwards compatible with existing BlackBerry phones, so companies transitioning to BlackBerry 10 will have to run legacy BES 5 and BES 10 servers in parallel during the changeover.
  • To simplify this setup for administrators, BES 10 will feature a unified console that can manage existing BES 5 servers. 
  • BES 5 is a mature product - while new feature development will cease beyond version 5.04, support for BES 5 in enterprise will continue for years to come.
  • BES 10, which is an extension of RIM's existing Mobile Fusion solution, can also manage Android and iOS devices allowing administrators to manage all of an enterprise's mobile devices within one dashboard.
  • For individuals and "bring your own device" users, Blackberry 10 can sync directly using ActiveSync (Exchange, Gmail), for email, calendar, and contacts, without the need for BES 10. 

If that's too clear, keep reading and we'll add some more color on what it all means.

Why is BlackBerry 10 not compatible with the existing BES 5 Servers?

RIM moved full-force behind the ActiveSync protocol with the transition to a QNX-based operating system. This protocol replaces the proprietary implementation of the older protocol, which RIM uses on BES 5 for connection to current BlackBerry 7 (and older) smartphones.

The move to ActiveSync is not news - we first learned about this switch to ActiveSync back at CES in January, when native email on the PlayBook was introduced. Even in 2011 we heard from many of our BES admin friends that RIM was notifying enterprises of this switch and its ramifications in regards to future server requirements. At BlackBerry World 2012 in May, there was much discussion on this very topic.

BES during the transition

Enterprises that use BES 5 will need to add BES 10 to support BlackBerry 10 devices. To simplify the management of mobile devices, BES 10's unified console can manage older BlackBerry Smarpthones on existing BES 5 servers, and in addition can also manage iOS and Android devices.

Since users will migrate from BB7 to BB10 over time, a multi-server deployment at a large enterprise will just shift from being 100% legacy BES, to eventually being 100% BES 10. While this happens, BES 10 makes the management of devices simple for IT, managing both the older and newer hardware via one console.

We spoke to several BES Admins at BlackBerry World about this. While all agreed that they would have rather seen the ability for existing BES servers to be able to run BlackBerry 10 devices, none that we talked to saw this requirement as a showstopper.

Running multiple servers is the norm. While managing the server transition as older BlackBerry OS handsets are replaced with BlackBerry 10 devices is a nuisance when it needs to be done, the ability to manage everything via one console day to day will make the enterprise transition to BlackBerry 10 relatively smooth.

The future of BES 5

So, is RIM stopping development on the BES 5? Yes, most likely that's exactly what they are doing. BES is a mature product that hasn't really seen much feature development over the last 5 years.

However a shift in R&D resources does not mean there will be less customer support. Obviously RIM will continue to support the legacy BES for years to come. A company that buys 1,000 BlackBerry 7 Smartphones today will still be able to run them five years from now just as effectively.

ActiveSync means non-BlackBerry shops can easily support BlackBerry 10

Historically, to run a BlackBerry phone in the enterprise environment the need for a BES server was a requirement due to RIM's proprietary implementation. The shift to ActiveSync puts BlackBerry 10 into the same playing field as iOS and Android.

In a BYOD environment this means that BlackBerry 10 devices can now be connected without the need of any additional BlackBerry server or management products, which was not the case in the past.

This means within a Microsoft Exchange/Google Apps environment, you could simply flip on the ActiveSync switch and connect a BlackBerry 10 device and it will work. This is the exactly the same as how BYOD iPad and iPhone owners connect to their enterprise networks, in many cases. Yes, you'll be missing the additional security and control that managing a BlackBerry via BES 10 provides, but it will work.

The bottom line is BlackBerry 10 gives IT more choice

With the shift to Bring Your Own Device in enterprise, the BES 10 / Mobile Fusion offering brings multi-vendor device management and offers the security and control that has always been a part of the BlackBerry DNA.

Still have questions? Drop them in the comments... we'll work on getting the answers and put it into an upcoming FAQ on this topic. 

 

101 comments

_BB10_

Thank you for posting this!

mrfreeze574

Thanks! This clears up a lot of false information..

Freeze

________________________________________
You can access the Unofficial CrackBerry IRC chat room with the following:

Go to EFnet Webchat IRC Portal: http://chat.efnet.org:9090/

Enter a Nickname and #CrackBerry for the Channel.

Lumute

Yes, very good info and very well explained!

The only thing that is not even mentioned in this article its how BES Express plays with all this... Will BES 10 also be able to managed BES Express with it's unified console? probably yes as it is still BES 5.0, just limited, but the big question is: will there be a BES 10 Express edition for the companies that have already adopted BES Express to migrate users to BB 10?

KellyWhite802

My IT dept closed down the BES this year. Now I have to get and send my mail via web sync and my calendar can't sync nor can my contacts. With BB10 supporting active sync I'll have all my functionality back! Yay, this news keeps me from having to jump ship to an iPhone or Android! TYVM for adding this.

AVPTI

Will data compression still be present?

and how does this affect BIS?

NamelessStar

this should have 0 effect on BIS as BIS is consumer based not really ment for enterprise environments

AVPTI

I know that, but one of the great features of BIS is the data compression, which will be really handy with a large, HD LTE device on a limited data plan

ADGrant

BIS will still be around for BB OS 7 devices. For BB OS 10, you will be using exchange active sync.

NamelessStar

with BIS its an infastructure your bb gets push email because their servers are doing all the work this is one of the biggest reasons for battery life saving and compression comes out of an algorythm the BlackBerry uses so its not going to be different unless they change it.

melander

That's kinda why the question was asked --- will they change it? Personally, I'd rather my password not be shared with RIM and I'd rather my device access my mail directly, so hopefully BIS goes away for BB10 phones the way it was not used for the Playbook, even with IMAP.

jechow

I hope we have the option to turn on/off compression so that we can maximize our internet throughput.

kolok

Wow. Guy at BGR makes it sound like RIM is gone - poof! It's ceasing to develop support for their own devices. Kablamo.

Good grief that guy's up to no good.

Of course, there are credible sources of news about gizmos, including CrackBerry.com without embellishing by-lines.

Cheers

mnhockeycoach99

This type of "half assed" reporting is Geller's style. RIM could lay out the full picture and Geller and his iBGR cronies would conveniently leave out facts and paint RIM in a negative light. RIM could sell a billion BB10 devices with the best specs on the market and iGuzzler Geller would still have some smarmy anti-RIM isht to post on his poor excuse for a "tech blog".

Ps. I laugh when he cries that people post hateful comments about him...REALLY? Try posting a non-biased truthful story for once in your life.

johnmarki

+As many internets as you want. Geller has some kind of vendetta against RIM, and will stop at nothing when it comes to posting old/sensationalized "news."

fsecure

I've seen Geller's style of reporting before! In cheap tabloid newspapers. It's a style that is designed to sell papers and create discussion. Seeing everyone's reaction to his article would tell me that his methods have proved effective. However, I personally prefer sourcing my information from Crackberry.com!

BruvvaPete

I thought I sucessfully flushed BGR because of patent infringement and copywrite protection (and other bs). That site and its creaters owe me. Any desperate lawyers in the house?

Flyerssignguy

Here is the issue: I can speak from my experience with my Blackberry Playbook. IT Departments will not spend money on the resources needed for BB10 without being sure it will survive. When I saw this post, I found it very upsetting

Flyerssignguy

Good News......called my IT Department and they are IN! Sounds like RIM has done a better job prior to release of BB10 then they did with the Playbook.

Switch13

Our IT department is not in, yet. We really need to get a handle of what all of this costs and a device needs to go out to the users to determine their desire for it. For example, if this device comes out at $299 and we can get another brand for $99 and we don't have to buy server infrastructure because we can license MAAS360 AND international data roaming fees are similar (Current blackberry 7 devices roam fairly cheaply in comparison to data hungry competitors), we may likely pull the plug and start a slow migration off, leaving BES 5.04 in place until the last user is off.

jenks5150

I run an IT department (in Canada) and we will be going BB10.

Switch13

Seems like we can expect a 70% corporate adoption rate, with a 30% stagnant or moving rate from this quick poll. Based on the remaining number of Blackberry users in North America that's what a potential shift of about 2% of Blackberries total user population? (This data of course totally non-scientific and completely drawn from a random place in the sky)

Plazmic Flame

...or from a random place, in the rear of your pants...

martinjdub

We are moving to BES10. The leap from 5 to 10 could be much more painful but to spin up a new VM Server is just a few Gee. Done.

BEST Administration here

kingbernie06511

yeah, BGR was misleading.

I was under the assumption though that RIM would keep BES/BIS phones Java OS and migrate it towards a super-secure, Large enterprise-only platform. They would gradually remove all consumer features from BBOS (BB8?), rebrand it as 'BBSek' for security, and come up with a phone or two a year. Basically their own bread and butter. BBOS would go back to its root as a super secure OS. No? Now it seems BES 5 will stop develpment....

diegonei

You missed the memo about RIM not leaving the consumer market, right?

BB10 will suit both, consumers and business users.

Switch13

Seems like the way RIM is talking about the US market is that they're not starting from scratch and that they're banking on their Corporate installed base to upgrade as their core customers. So certainly RIM will see sales there, but with only 2% of retail consumers thinking about blackberry as their next device RIM's market there is nearly non-existent at this time.

BruvvaPete

BB8?? Pass de dutchie pan the left hand side. Wow

NamelessStar

i love mobile fusions idea of an all in one perfectly manageable system i was getting trained on this in a very low level when i was still with RIM nothing but love and hope for this company to make the top dog again.

Switch13

So, this is all information we had been thinking about over the past year. One thing I've been dying to know is what the data usage is like on a blackberry 10 device. Blackberries in general use fairly little data in comparison with other devices. What will all the new bells and whistles do to its data consumption? Will roaming internationally now cost about the same as roaming with a competitor device? What will our bills look like?

Plazmic Flame

I think the smart thing for RIM to do would be to now have a toggle switch for data compression.

aornoe785

Thanks for actually taking the time to quote some IT Admins about this instead of just screaming that two servers would be required.

Heck, thanks for doing real reporting - instead of following the popular model of re-packaging whatever drivel BGR sharts out on a given day.

aornoe785

Actually there is something I'm curious about - right now Mobile Fusion acts as a VPN tunnel essentially for ActiveSync for PlayBooks, and already piggybacks alongside BES 5.0.3.

I assume that BES10 will provide a Policy server to apply the security policies to BB10 devices, but what else is it going to do if all the PIM and Messaging is handled by ActiveSync?

Switch13

My understanding was that the ActiveSync protocol will be encrypted and transmitted through the NOC via the BES 10 server.

Njuki Mate

Hi aornoe785,
Was this question answered? I am rolling out Blackberry 10 and I need to understand why I need BES. If you received the answer, kindly share.

adamschuetze

The easiest way to clear up confusion, is for people to stop reading BGR.

Switch13

But where else would I get my daily chuckle?

windowslover

Hi,

Can you clear up something on the security front? A BES server was a killer blow to the ActiveSync system because it did not need any open incoming ports at the firewall - the connections were initiated by the BES. With ActiveSync, you have to expose a server (Exchange or ISA / FTMG) to the Internet. No serious enterprises are happy about this.

Can we get some clarification on how this will work with BES 10 - i.e. do we point our ActiveSync device settings at the BES or the RIM NOC and where are the holes?

Thanks

Switch13

The BES will pull activesync from the exchange, encrypt it and pipe it out its normal outbound port through the NOC then deliver it encrypted to the device and back.

Now for IOS and Andriod management, you will have to expose exchange ActiveSync ports to the internet. There's a whole blackberry doc explaining it (and a slew of ports that expose the fusion and exchange at that point).

BB_Bmore

(BGR) ....because sometimes people just need some juicy gossip to help get through the day...who cares if its true or false ;)

camera531

I'm not trying to defend BGR, but they simply reported that BES 5 would still be required for BB7 and previous devices. Then everyone freaked out on them and called them liars, saying BES 10 would cover everything. Their report was accurate, but everything is still calling BGR a liar, etc. Kind of ridiculous

diegonei

Here's a report for you: We all knew BES 5 would be needed for OS6/7. Mobile Fusion was RIM's solution to the fact BES and BB10 are not compatible.

No new news. Just old stuff flipped just so to get RIM in trouble. Again.

camera531

I knew that, but a lot of people still didn't. And my problem with RIM is that they deliberately gave a vague answer that sounded like legacy devices would be covered solely by BES 10.

“RIM is developing BES 10, which will support existing BlackBerry devices, including the BlackBerry PlayBook tablet and new devices running on the BlackBerry 10 platform. BES 10 will be the ultimate management solution for all BlackBerry platform devices, as well as iOS and Android devices. BES 10 will launch simultaneously with the first BlackBerry 10 devices in Q1 calendar 2013."

europolska00

In addition to BGR simply reporting old news, Geller composes his articles with bias and is crafty when selecting words. Sometimes he flat out just reports facts that are simply not true. More often though, he writes things suggestively and he knows people will read what they want to read. He usually does this in the title because he knows some non-technical people will read the headline and won't even read the story.

For example, "Current BlackBerry Enterprise Servers incompatible with BlackBerry 10 devices; RIM to cease development." Do you know how many people read this and extract the wrong information from it? All people see is "RIM to cease development." People don't question development of what? They just walk away and think RIM is shutting down or is no longer developing new products. They don't read critically and realize that it is on the current servers that RIM will stop development. First off, RIM has not confirmed they are halting development on BES5 yet. Second, a company ceasing development on a mature product in favor of new technology, I don't see how that is news. It also isn't news when you make basis less personal opinions like "RIM IS OFFICIALLY DEAD" or "BLACKBERRY 10 DOA" and dress it up as news.

Gellar is an emotional cry baby who doesn't know what reporting is. You can see his bias in his writing when he says things like "our original story was completely accurate." Or when he keeps repeating old facts like, "when RIM launched the PlayBook it didn't have native email!" Ok,simmer down cry baby. Yes, you're right Geller, you got the old news facts of running parallel servers right. But you also neglect the fact that you are bias, take every old jab at RIM that you can and write in a way to mislead people. Hypocritical considering you accuse RIM of being misleading. His bias is also revealed by his lack of bashing of Apple. Why hasn't he written an article about how, "APPLE CONFIRMS NEW 19 PIN DOCK CONNECTOR! CEASES PRODUCTION ON FUTURE ACCESORIES."?

The best thing we can do is stop visiting his site. No matter how tempted to log on to BGR and fight back, taking clicks away from him is what matters. No clicks. No money.

Geller is a fantastic douche and I'm not surprised he is an Apple fan boy. Most Apple fanatics are douchey, pompous, closed minded sheep. I guess they just want to be like their Sheppard Steve Jobs.

crumbonthefloor

I quote
"...you'll be missing the additional security and control that managing a BlackBerry via BES 10 provides..."
So where is the BES security and data protection going? that's why BlackBerry is best known for! Will the IT policies be deploy through the Exchange/Google Apps then? Am I reading this wrong? Is my question stupid?

xtech22

My understanding is this, BB10 phones will have all the security of the BB7 phones if they are using the BES 10 servers. They have, however, made it possible for IOS and android phones to run on the BES 10 servers.
The statement you quoted is if I want to use my BB10 phone on a different server (BYOD). The BB10 phone will then be dependent on the security of the other server.
If I am wrong will someone clarify please.
Thanks

Switch13

Manage iOS and android yes, but not use the rim network. Those devices will active sync directly to exchange... And will need ports open to the Internet on both the fusion and exchange servers... So, really you're probably more secure using something like maas360 for android and iOS device management.

jechow

Given email, calendar, and contacts are now being handled by Activesync servers (and not necessarily going through the NOC) are BB10 devices POTENTIAL going pay less in fees for BB services to RIM?

Switch13

Sure, if you activesync only and do not use bes10 for device management (remote wipes, etc) - which i suppose you could do through blackberry protect anyhow?

Really, i guess its up to the carrier to decide if you need to buy a blackberry data plan with your device or can just use an internet plan instead.

I would imagine blackberry could really shoot themselves in the foot with this as i'm sure some trial users would rather active sync a 10 device rather than investing in the hardware and software to support it... slope could be slippery - and could be even more slippery if a solution like MAAS360 could manage a blackberry 10 device.

aornoe785

I don't think much money is made on the software side of business anyway - BES Express supports up to 2,000 users for absolutely free right now (although with less than the full run of IT policies and some other minor scaled-back features). The businesses that are going to invest in BES 10 are going to be the huge ones with 10k+ BB users, and want to ensure the secure pipe to the NOC.

I'm guessing that a NOC connection to the device will require an additional service plan - I'm not sure what the plan would be with BIS/Social plans moving forward, as ActiveSync could work around that.

I suppose the BIS servers could still act in a similar fashion to a BES, tho, and offer the secure pipe for ActiveSync to connect through, thus still requiring a specific BB service plan.

I don't believe that the ActiveSync remote wipe works with BB hardware, but I'm not 100% on any of this - just hypothesising :)

VerryBestr

Read the RIM blog linked at the beginning of this post and follow the links therein (to the page entitled "ActiveSync policy behavior when a tablet is activated on BlackBerry Device Service"). Then you won't have to hypothesize.

Here is part of RIM's explanation:

"The BlackBerry® PlayBook™ tablet can receive Microsoft® ActiveSync® policies if an email profile has been configured. Once the tablet is activated with a BlackBerry Device Service server, policies sent from Exchange directly are ignored by the device, and only policies sent from the BlackBerry Device Service will be applied.(*)"

The (*) is for the sole exception when a tablet has been activated with a BDS server. In that case, "(*) All policies sent from Exchange directly are ignored except for the RemoteWipe command, which will wipe the ActiveSync account from the work perimeter.

btsc.webapps.blackberry.com/btsc/viewdocument.do?externalId=KB28803

aornoe785

Ah, see I jumped ship just as the Device Service was coming online, so I never had to support it.

I did read the core article, but didn't dig down through the links - thanks for clarifying :)

slbailey1#CB

Why would a company upgrade to BES 10 if they have BES 5 and an Exchange Server when a BB 10 device can connect to there Exchange Server using ActiveSync?

aornoe785

If they don't want to open their firewall to the Exchange server, then BES 10 would be necessary.

Also if they want to enforce security policies on the devices.

slbailey1#CB

You can enforce security policies on devices that use ActiveSync. Also if a company have Exchange server,there firewall is already open.

aornoe785

The firwall would be open to Exchange for SMTP, but not necessarily ActiveSync ports. And by security policies, I mean the BB policies, which are above and beyond what ActiveSync would offer.

camera531

This was RIM's answer yesterday, being as vague and deceptive as the "old" RIM. If they just clarified (and were frankly honest), this little firestorm never would've started in the first place.

“RIM is developing BES 10, which will support existing BlackBerry devices, including the BlackBerry PlayBook tablet and new devices running on the BlackBerry 10 platform.  BES 10 will be the ultimate management solution for all BlackBerry platform devices, as well as iOS and Android devices.  BES 10 will launch simultaneously with the first BlackBerry 10 devices in Q1 calendar 2013.

VerryBestr

For large BB installations, the whole "multiple server" critique is just a red herring. RIM's infrastructure has long been criticized for the load it puts on Exchange servers, compared to access via Exchange ActiveSync.

See the following article (which contains information submitted by RIM) for some technical discussion:
http://www.cio.com/article/701909/Evaluating_BlackBerry_Alternatives
Here are a couple of excerpts from this article: "One of the drawbacks imposed by BES is it forces IT to over-engineer their Exchange infrastructure to support the additional load created by BES ... On average, [the additional overhead that BES causes] is three to four times the load of a single Exchange user."

By moving to the BB10/BES10 architecture based on Exchange ActiveSync, a large installation will reduce the load on its Exchange servers and may reduce the number of Exchange servers required.

ClassyBOLD

I'm confused, what does BES 10 mean for Mobile Fusion? Is it the next evolution of Mobile Fusion? Will enterprises that bought Mobile Fusion have to fork over $ to get BB10?

sklotz2000

BGR = EVIL

His articles about RIM in the past year or more have all been clearly written with a negative spin.

In my opinion, BG should really stand for Boy Gooch!

fanchettes

I for one am getting more and more concerned about how the "major" tech outlets are covering RIM. It's like they want RIM to fail, and all those thousands of people out of jobs. Is this lingering resentment for something Lazaridis did to piss everyone off? I just don't get it.

twstd.reality

It's because they are all American! They want an American company (like Google/Apple) to be tops, not some Canadians. They will take any jab they can get to keep RIM down.

sklotz2000

Not necessarily true! Both I and many of my friends and coworkers are American and live in the USA. We proudly stand alongside you in FULL support of RIM and their success. My money is spent on quality made products no matter who makes them or where it's manufactured.

Sparro

I am in a non-enterprise environment so my question is more about BIS than BES.
When I get my BlackBerry 10 London on launch day in January, will I need a BIS specific data plan to use data, or will I be able to pop in a SIM card that has a standard data plan (that works with iOS and Android) and use my BlackBerry 10 phone with it?

WillieLee

This isn't accurate. RIM responded to ZDNet when they reported on the BGR story and told them that BES 10 will support legacy devices and a legacy server WILL NOT be needed. BES 10 will launch the same time as BB10 and they will be offering an upgrade for the current BES customers.

Here's the ZDNet story

http://www.zdnet.com/rim-blackberry-enterprise-server-will-support-all-d...

"A RIM spokesperson got in touch later today to say that the smartphone maker is working on "developing BlackBerry Enterprise Server (BES) 10," which will "support existing BlackBerry devices, including the BlackBerry PlayBook tablet and new devices running on the BlackBerry 10 platform."

They added:

BES 10 will be the ultimate management solution for all BlackBerry platform devices, as well as iOS and Android devices. BES 10 will launch simultaneously with the first BlackBerry 10 devices in [the first quarter of 2013]."

Team CrackBerry (and the others) is confusing the way current BES 5 systems need to operate to incorporate PlayBooks with the way BES 10 will operate. Currently, a separate server is needed to run BDS which manages the PlayBooks. BDS installs under Mobile Fusion and Mobile Fusion is used as a dashboard for the new server and the legacy server. With BES10, no legacy server will be required and it will manage all BlackBerry platforms as well as iOS and Android devices.

So, now that I cleared up the confusion caused by the attempt to clear up the confusion...when do I get a job at CrackBerry?

BBTASTIC01

Hi all,

If willielee's comment is valid then RIM would have completed a complete u-turn, which is highly unlikely as they are telling everyone else exactly what Kevin and the Crackberry team are reporting. Great, credible work as we would expect.

To be honest for RIM to add BB10 support into BES 5 would be genius as it would mean a complete re-write of the base code. Instead they have realised that it is time to move forward with something fresh that will provide longevity and the feature set they need to remain competitive while giving admins what they require moving forward.

WillieLee

Now it seems like the PR department, who provided that quote, was not giving a clear representation of the situation.

BBTASTIC01

I suspect it is more a case of someone using the wrong terminology from the P.R. team (if it was definately the RIM P.R. team that provided the comment!!) or could it possibly be a rebranding of Mobile Fusion (The central management console) to BES 10. I am awaiting confirmation.

To be honest although I think RIM are doing some things in the wrong order for example concentrating on Playbook 4G releases before the BBOS 10 handhelds are released the general plan to support Android and IOS devices on the management solution alongside current and future BB handhelds is great. They have done the research and realised that being able to offer a multi vendor mobile device solution is what the customers want freedom of choice.

With regards to the BBOS 10 handhelds, if QNX on the Playbook and the dev simulators are anything to go by I can't wait to get my hands on the full touchscreen and QWERTY devices.

Although I am an ex employee (many moons ago)who obviously had my reasons for leaving RIM is truely a company that I want to see succeed.

Switch13

I think it depends on the age of the information you have from RIM. The conversations we have had, things have evolved from January to August - and we expect more changes to come along as details come out and corporations request changes or point significant issues out.

So, its all up in the air really until January and I'm sure there will be revisions throughout the year as more issues are identified.

We'll likely sit back and wait 3-6 months before adopting a blackberry 10 device so that eager beavers in the crowd can work out the kinks so we don't have to endure them.

thelink74

Thanks team CrackBerry, i feel much better now knowing that BB10 can be connected to my corporate exchange server via active Sync. Our company will be moving our exchange services to a 3rd party who does not run BES in the next couple of months. Only a handful of months to wait....

shanewilson600

So RIM is willing to give up feature functionality, like the ability to view people's free busy time when booking calendar appointments, and security, and still expect enterprise customers to chose their device over the competitors?

Looks like the BB tower of power may actually fall in my organization.

4abetterworld

Can you please explain how Mobile Fusion and BES10 relate to one another?

sbowlestx

BES 10 is one componet one server. UDS is another componet on another server. One console will manage BES 10, UDS (Android and Apple) and BES 5. Unless it has changed BES 10 will not manage anything less than BB10/Playbooks. You will be able to use one console to do all.

BBTASTIC01

Mostly correct: BES 10 does not actually exist at this point, that's not to say that it won't exist.

As things stand the RIM plan is as follows:

BES 5 - Last version listed as 5.0.4 with long term support for BBOS 7 and below.

BDS-. BBOS 10 handheld and PlayBook only.
(BlackBerry Device Services

UDS- Android and IOS devices only.
(Universal Device Services)

Mobile Fusion MGMT console - This will have the ability for all of the above service components to be centrally managed with one cloud management like console.

scalemaster34

"A company that buys 1,000 BlackBerry 7 Smartphones today will still be able to run them five years from now just as effectively."

That assumes that BB10 is able to impress the average consumer and that RIM is around in "five" years.

It's been stated by too many people that RIM's future depends on BB10... That make it almost a necessity to start planning for the "what if" scenario. So if a group will need a new server and to buy new CAL for BB10, maybe it will make more sense to change platforms than to continue to invest in their current one. True there will be many that BB will be the only option for security purposes, but there are many companies that do not require that level.

At this point RIM needs every existing customer that they have, just think that RIM should have made this change over a little smother so that there wasn't a reason for anyone to even give the upgrades a second taught.

SBEMEDIA

No matter what, BB10 phones will not be able to communicate BB7 phones, plain & simple! RIM-users are total suckers!! RIM says the sky is purple & all of you morons get on the forums telling the whole world what RIM just told you! #duh

murialita

Here are my questions.

1. Everything mentioned is about Exchange. What about Lotus Notes? I'm assuming this will still be supported.
2. Will separate server hardware be required, or can both BES's run on the same server?
3. Will I be able to transfer already purchased BES 5 cals to BES10?
4. Perhaps unanswerable until it actually comes out. My company has not purchased a support subscription. What will the costs of BES10 be?

There is so much confusion going on, because the software is not out yet, and any real difinitive information is lacking. I wish RIM would provide more definitive information that is easily, generally accessable (instead of having to glean information off bloggers and tech writers with 'Anonymous' or 'Reliable' sources).

sbowlestx

"3. Will I be able to transfer already purchased BES 5 cals to BES10?"

YES

Switch13

1. Lotus what? :) Does Lotus do active sync? We're not a lotus shop, so we never asked.

2. From my source in Rim during May - at this time they cannot coexist on the same machine - this is due to the use of SRP - you cannot have multiple bes on the same windows machine.

3. We were told in May that we had to purchase all new licensing. The only thing that was transferable at the time was the maintenance agreement.

4. We presume the same fees since they told us it was transferable.

sbowlestx

They can not coexist but which is why BES 10 will not support 7.x and under devices.

I was told recently that is you have a support agreement, then your CALS will transfer. I have it in writing.

Switch13

Hang onto that like gold.. It's quite possible that enough complaining about this issue took place and what we have from May has changed. If so, fantastic.

Did you happen to get anything about the BES upgrade? We also complained that it should be covered under maintenance as has been in the past, but that was shot down in May.

sbowlestx

I hope to have an answer to that today.

sbowlestx

Here is the part of the document I was sent from RIM.

"BlackBerry 10 will be managed on the BlackBerry Device Server (BDS). This server is part of the new Mobile Fusion package, which also includes the Universal Device Server (UDS) for managing iOS/Android devices. BDS also manages BlackBerry PlayBook devices today, and is available as a free software download. In addition to the free software, it currently comes with 20 licenses, good for a 60-day trial. If you have not already done so, the link to download this trial is below.

I am now happy to let you know that for customers with Technical Support contracts (Advantage level or higher), RIM will have a process in place to exchange existing BES CALs for BDS CALs at no additional charge. We appreciate that you have already made an investment in your BES infrastructure, and as we transition to the new BB10 platform, we want to ensure you will be able to leverage that existing investment. Additional details will be available on how this process will be handled at a later date, but as always, I want to ensure you are provided with any new information as soon as possible."

I guess the question for some is does this apply if you have a support contract through a RIM business partner.

Coffeecat

I stopped reading BGR a while ago. Their reporting is pure CRAP. They'd make anything up to boost their readership and hence advertising profits.... I've decided that I don't want to have any part in sustaining bgr.

SamFromDowntown

Surely a dumb question, but here goes: If ActiveSynch is to be the mechanism for email transmission, then what advantages remain for RIM and its network? What purpose will the NOCs serve? The security aspect I understand, but what about transmission efficiency? What happens to one's roaming bill in Europe? Oh, and what advantages will RIM have in developing countries where the infrastructure is more limited? Any clarification appreciated. TTYIA.

adamschuetze

Moral of the story? BGR are a bunch of idiots.

tuffcalc

This is an absolute disaster. Do you guys not realize that a big part of RIM's revenue stream is the additional subscription fees from their proprietary network (BES/BIS)?

With Blackberry 10 / Mobile Fusion, there is no need for this network. RIM has just made itself a pure hardware company (with hopes of the enterprise adopting mobile fusion to manage devices).

This is the nail in the coffin. Game over.

SamFromDowntown

I am not sure this is the case. I understand the NOCs will continue to be used for remote admin tasks. And maybe some other things. But as per my question above, some more clarity would be most helpful.

Switch13

SamFromDowntown, Forget active sync exists (For simplicity)... it is really only used between the bes and the exchange server as far as blackberry with a bes solution is concerned. From the BES to the device everything is encrypted (cough activesync ) traffic via the NOC to the device.

If you don't have a bes or are using another device then active sync happens directly against the exchange server.

SamFromDowntown

Thanks, Switch. I was thinking more along the lines of network efficiency. If Apple and Andoid use ActiveSynch without NOCs, then what is the purpose of NOCs in the context of BB10/Playbook? What do you get for them? How does RIM sell their network services? I am still quite confused here. Thanks again -SfD.

Switch13

Ah, data efficiency. I don't think anyone knows the answer as to what it will cost to roam a blackberry 10 device vs an android or ios device in another country. I'd love to know if someone does know. Some of us are using blackberry devices solely because of the efficiency of its data - if it's gone or negligible - that's a problem and we'd (IT) would cave to the BYOD craze.

The NOC provides higher encryption standards and RIM pays for it via BES licensing and Carrier fees (that Blackberry Data Fee RIM gets a part of).

BES also gives you remote management of the devices and of course if you pay maintenance you get upgrades and support (Though the support isn't as great as it was even last year).

aornoe785

PROVIDED that everything continues to work the same way, then the BES will still be responsible for encrypting+compressing the message and then transmitting it through the NOC to the device, which will then uncompress+decrypt.

I'm basing this on my working knowledge of how the BES currently functions, where the IMAP connection between BES and Exchange notifies of new messages, PIM data etc. This would be replaced by ActiveSync.

This same compression also currently facilitates browsing - again, no idea if the implementation will be the same for BB10, but since the infrastructure is in place it would seem odd not to take advantage of the compression algorithms.

Again - anyone feel free to correct me, as I haven't had the time nor reason to read up on any new documentation on any of this stuff.

onggp

Torch 9860+ Playbook 64GB = Fun times!

Ah, BGR, stopped going to their site a long time ago. Clearly, they are anti-RIM.

DaSchwantz

I hate Maas360 / Fiberlink. They are part owned by Goldman Sachs and are going around doing workshops on 'enterprise mobility in the post-blackberry world', ahead of an IPO expected in a few months. If you purchase Maas360 just realize you are committing evil and are helping to line Bankster pockets. ; )

badyen

Ok got tired of reading. What about stand alone Outlook contacts and calendar sync? Biggest complaint is I cannot get my contacts and calendar on my playbook without going thru Google or gmail.

luvsql

Still SO confused. We activate our BBs on BESX 5.x and it gives us MUCH MORE than syncronization of contacts, calendar and email (that's for iPHones). If you activate new BB on BESX, it changes your fonts for you, updates your wallpaper, allows FULL network access to shared documents using the File Manager etc. If it's now only ActiveSync, does this imply that everyone is gone other than what exchange can give iPHones (contacts, calendar, task, emails). If so, why BB? I don't understand.

rockwilder1979

What an utter peace of crap that is. BB is supposed to be a business phone with one of the little advantages being having a great email application. So what they did was excluding business users from OS 10, unless the Company is willing to spend money on having parallel systems running ?!

That is just not acceptable ....Why didBB make an crap OS similar to the other crap phone (talking about email !!!)

aaviles

I am having the hardest time getting a solid answer to this, so someone please clarify: With BES10, do we still have the ability to leave emails on the server even if we DELETE on the BB? Management still wants this ability as we currently have with BES 4.1. i would LOVE an answer...

Jim Bean1

So if BB10 is using Active-sync, do we really need BB10 when Exchange handles that? Seems like a step backwards. I'm having a heck of time finding documentation to support a parallel installation to run both BB10 and BES5 express on the same server while we do the swing migration. And links in that regard would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance :)

toosweetnitemare

except for the whole lack of s/mime support with blackberry's implementation of activesync....