Blackphone fires back: 'BlackBerry betrayed its customers and jettisoned its credibility'

Blackphone
By Simon Sage on 15 Jul 2014 01:54 pm EDT
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The folks working on the security-centric Android-powered Blackphone have posted a rebuttal to the criticisms made by BlackBerry recently. The piece focuses primarily on BlackBerry's poor market performance, dwindling stock price, and ultimate reliance on competing platforms.

The main selling point Blackphone CEO Toby Weir-Jones posited for their product compared to BlackBerry was encrypted peer-to-peer voice calling, though it continues on to describe the BES infrastructure as restrictive and ineffectual. He even goes so far as to say BlackBerry's previous tiffs with local governments over lawful interception resulted in betrayals of customers.

Here are a few key excerpts.

"Unfortunately, the world discovered in 2010 that RIM was willing to compromise its integrity if sufficient pressure was applied by governments intent on spying on the messages sent via the ubiquitous devices. Various statements from the Saudi, UAE, Indian, and other telecom regulatory bodies all confirmed the same thing: RIM made it technically possible for the formerly-secret encrypted messages to be decrypted and viewed. Much speculation surrounds exactly what was done, and whether it remains in place today, but if anything there was more than one approach which achieved the same basic goal: a betrayal of the objectives of privacy."

"In the past five years, the drop is still almost 83%, and that's including the recent bump following Blackberry's announcement that, at last, they're opening up their own Blackberry Enterprise Server to manage the devices people actually buy: namely, iOS and Android."

"This touches upon a key point: our approach is attractive because the technology and architecture of the Blackphone ecosystem is more flexible, more transparent, and more usable. Closed systems — like BES and Mr. McGarvey's beloved EMM approach — are not attuned to how most enterprises are deploying mobility solutions today."

Those are some strong words. Be sure to check out the full editorial at the link below. What do you guys think? Are there viable alternative infrastructures that maintain security? Does Blackphone actually stand a chance at addressing the security concerns that BlackBerry has traditionally met?

Source: Blackphone

Reader comments

Blackphone fires back: 'BlackBerry betrayed its customers and jettisoned its credibility'

370 Comments

And even if Blackphone are accurate about the security, they at the moment can't compete with Blackberry's offering..

BlackBerry is working to secure individuals where they are

Blackphone wants users to change in order to be 'secure' same phone for everyone

Bp in a way is what BlackBerry would be if it hadn't advanced which is what I think they are trying to put forward with the whole 'BlackBerry compromised' but aren't the facts that BlackBerry had to compromise in order to still be selling phones

Check Out [URL="bbmc: C0008DDD1"]TechCraze[/URL]

LOL the word "security" is a word that is becoming more and more relevant with the entire globe.

Pretty soon, we are going to have a cyber nuclear world war, LOLOLOL

Yes but their statement is very misleading. BlackBerry has always maintained that there are no master keys for BES.

I think (could be wrong) that BlackBerry when dealing with those countries allowed them assess to BIS by setting up a NOC in their own country.
So BES wouldn't be affected by this.

Posted via CB10

Absolutely correct!
BIS was used in organized crime activities, terrorist attacks coordination and youth mischief in organizing dangerous meetings i.e. high speed car drifts on long strait roads and teen drug/alcohol parties that always end in casualties.

Blackberry doesn't offer secure sms or secure voice calling. Both of which are the number one most compromised forms of messaging today with the NSA, governments, and local police sniffing and setting up sting rays etc. Blackphone has an offering on these that BlackBerry cannot compete with, because BlackBerry doesn't encrypt these. The only option is to use BBM and not send sms and not call. With blackphone it sounds like no extra apps need to be run, but I don't know how the other party can communicate with a blackphone unless they also have one. So in that sense it is very similar to using BBM since both parties need something specific.

The remaining question then is this: is BBM truly secure when not using BES? I know BIS security was in effect compromised by governments in several parts of the world, when BlackBerry allowed them to setup their own servers and sniff the traffic. Is the new BBM secure point to point? If so BlackBerry would only need to add secure two way calling to BBM and they would have a similar offering to blackphone's secure sms and voice calling.

Posted via CB10

Only traffic in transit between BES and a BlackBerry device is secure.

Also data in rest can be secure if the device password is long and complex.

IMHO BlackBerry has lived too long on the saying "BlackBerry are secure" because security is not easy to understand for average Joe.

BP gas some valid points and BlackBerry has just launched eBBM which is for enterprise only.

Posted via CB10

You can add an encrypted chop. Angela Merkel uses this.

BlackBerry should just ignore them entirely. They just drew attention to them. Black phone will not have distribution in any country if their government don't allow them. This is all bark no bite. Blackphone will do the exact same as Blackberry, easy to criticize when you don't have a dog in the fight.

Z30 Vivo Brasil

Exactly.
No enterprises can avoid governmental influences. They will just ban it
IMHO, RIM moved correctly when pressed by some governments with optimum solution. After all they are here in business of making money not for a revolution to feed privacy advocates.

BlackBerry never compromised security.

BIS, PIN and BBM was never designed to be secure. Data was only 3DES encrypted and PIN/BBM shared the same key on all devices. Only a few people understood the huge difference between BES and the above technologies and the press was happy to spell BlackBerry correctly and use the term security in the same sentence ;-)

Posted via CB10

BIS and PIN were secure in the fact that the communication from the device to the service / service to device was encrypted. But BIS was only able to connect to the 3rd party server using the protocols it accepted, namely POP3 and IMAP (OWA and iNotes were a little more secure) so it was as secure as could be expected.

The original BBM used PIN to PIN, so it was only as secure as that service. The new BBM (since version 5.0 release) used a completely rewritten protocol and had end to end security. Sending device would encrypt and send. BBM server would decrypt using the device key from its database and then re-encrypt for the receiving device, using its key from the DB, and then transmit to the receiving device which decrypts and allows the message to be read. That's a simplified breakdown anyway.

Apart from that it's a joke, Black phone runs on Android, it's NOT secure and anyone fool hardy to believe the croc really isn't paying attention. BlackBerry has had issues with governmental bodies and allowed restricted access. Android is an open turnstile that leaves the door open for one and all. BlackBerry needs to respond to these statements and not allow the myth of Black phone to perpetuate.

Posted via CB10

Wrong again bob. Android is secure. To say it's not its a pathetic and stupid comment. Typical American.

Posted with the HTC M8 via the CrackBerry App

The CNET article above is 100% correct. A friend of mine had done a factory reset before posting his old Android phone for sale. I sent him the link to the CNET article when I first saw it, hoping he hadn't sold his yet. He ran the software shown in the screen shots in the article and found a number of media files, contacts, documents and texts that were left behind. Needless to say he was not very happy since he also did a factory reset before selling his previous phones and he was under the impression that they were wiped clean. What was left behind on the others?

 Proud BB10 user. The best kept secret in mobile 

I'll confirm the info is not securely deleted entirely, on my girlfriends s3 I did a security wipe, and the first thing I noticed in plain view is that her phone numbers and names were still in the contacts. Who knows what else was left in the os??? Android is shit, always will be.

Posted from Thor's hammer...my Z30!

The ignorance is astounding. Most people have NO idea how these things work. When something is wiped, including hard drives in your computer, SD cards, USB Keys, etc, you are simply telling the the OS that this space can be written on again. "Wiping" is simply re-allocating the space. The data still exists, it is just no longer marked as "unavailable space".

In order to truly destroy the data you would have to overwrite this space repeatedly with garbage data until the original is so obscured it is unreadable. Again, this can be reverse processed to restore original data too. However, most would not be willing to invest the time and resources to do so.

The only real solution is physical destruction.

Coreymeetsworld is delusional in thinking Android is secure. I work in this field and it's the most vulnerable ecosystem.

Posted via CB10

Secure has become a relative term. But its hard to argue it's secure when there are forks of android to specifically harden it and all the various issues like epic wipe failure.

Posted via CB10

You should really read the Guardian. They have done a broad expose, not just on the poor security of the Android operating system, but on how Google executives meet and work with NSA officials to track, monitor and steal private information mainly from US citizens. Quite shocking actually. Time to pull your head out of the sand.

Also very accurate, many are saying otherwise as it helps them cope using the Android and Google Services. What should be worrying them is what's being done to the data collected and what measures are in place to secure the storage of such data. The EU has moved to correct the issue, with the right to be forgotten law, time for other jurisdictions to do the same.

Posted via CB10

Wrong Corey so utterly wrong, I won't bother posting any news articles where it's been proven that android isn't anywhere as secure as blackberry. I'd also hedge a bet that ios is probably more secure than android at the moment.

Epic failure from a fandroid lol.

Posted via CB10

Dude whatever helps you get through the night. Time to start facing the reality, IOS is also not secure go ask the Australians who had their devices hacked and held for ransom. Ignorance isn't bliss.

Posted via CB10

They were fined by the Feds, 7 Million for the wifi exploits they inflicted on unsuspecting individuals. A drop in the bucket for them, stiffer fines and individual. Culpability is needed. Google and Co. Including Facebook needs proper monitoring. The excuse for privacy invasion to "better their service" holds more holes than a basket carrying water.

Posted via CB10

Try this:

http://www.cvedetails.com/product/6649/RIM-Blackberry-Enterprise-Server....

http://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2014-2389/

Regarding the second one: a BB10 buffer-overflow/remote code execution ROOT vulnerability that was out in the wild for nearly ONE YEAR before it was widely patched. BlackBerry's security advisory was in April 2014, the vulnerability/exploit was privately communicated to them in June 2013. They're lucky the reporter has way more patience than most.

BlackBerry has a good but not perfect security reputation, and I think they should be careful throwing stones while living in a glass house.

They are still considered the Gold Standard in terms of security. Try as many to drag down that reputation doesn't change that fact.

Posted via CB10

There is no need to attempt to do any "dragging" - the vulnerabilities I linked are publicly documented.

Like I said, BlackBerry's security reputation is good but hardly flawless. And their unwillingness to clearly state that they are committed to enhancing their individual customer's privacy is unsettling, especially in how it contrasts to all their talk about corporate security.

Personally I think they are extremely worried about annoying their key government/military clients by making such claims. Even if they had a solid track-record in that area. But on the contrary, as Blackphone points-out, they have a history of divulging customer data when governments ask for it.

I don't think BlackBerry ever claim flawless in security, just the best you can have at this imperfect world.

Posted via CB10

@Omnitech

Are you suggesting that Google has been quick to fix all security issues?

You are using a logical fallacy here to support your weak argument. From where I am sitting most of the issues with security on mobile devices lie outside of BlackBerry's offerings.

Huh??? Who commented anything about Google's response time to security breaches? And what logical fallacy to what weak argument??? All I read was a comment showing BlackBerry is good, but not perfect on the security issue. At any rate, do any of us with a BlackBerry not on BES have any better security than anyone with an Android or iPhone outside of the rogue apps and permissions issue?

Google, on the whole, probably fixes security issues in their products faster than almost any other large corporation.

The problem with Android is that there are some architectural problems with it that make it vulnerable in certain ways regardless whether Google fixes specific previously-unknown security bugs.

BB10 has a better overall architecture for security than Android but this is undermined to some degree by certain BlackBerry corporate policies, along with their slow process of security vulnerability mitigation.

Thanks, that's a good one. Score 9.3 is pretty hefty.

10.1 ... hope there are no such surprises in later versions.

Pasted via CB chen

Yeah. That was bad. Did however require development mode to be enabled (and it disables automatically after 10 days).

Where do you see when BlackBerry received the notification? I didn't catch it in the link to the CVE post..

Posted via CB10

In the cvedetails post there is a link to a Neohapsis post that describes in great detail how the vuln was discovered, as well as what both the discoverer/reporter and BlackBerry did after they were notified.

Nothing wrong about what I said. Your just bitter and cannot stand people who like an OS different from yours that is actually secure.

Posted with the HTC M8 via the CrackBerry App

@CoryMeetsWorld

Perhaps I missed a comment, but merely proclaiming the Android security to be superior isn't a very good argument.

Google FB and the like are American institutions, it's the largest surveillance network since the CIA and KGB activities, where spying was more or less restricted to foreign governments activities. It has now spilled over to include the general public. Its Not an American issue it's a global issue.

Posted via CB10

Android has nothing to do with security...but it's functional. Just look at all the permissions almost every android app needs to run; most of them (permissions) have nothing to do with the granted accesses...and most of the time its about account info, device info, personal files. One has to be really "stoned'' to grant all that access to an app!
I wouldn't even mention android and security in the same sentence...

Instead of coming here and stamping your feet and shouting "WRONG" at the top of your lungs every time someone posts an opinion or a link that you disagree with, try backing up your argument with facts, links or articles rather than just whining about it. Right now you're coming across quite childish and what ever you say just can't be taken seriously.

He's not interested in facts. He knows Android is weak on security, but he just wants to elicit responses.

Posted via CB10

Well Cory, obviously you have issues that go beyond phone security. Your anti American comment illustrates that clearly.

Why do you have to attack him because he's American? (not even sure if he is american)
You sir, have no credibility.

Posted via CB10

When and how does country of origin factor into this.
That's only hell of a horse you rode in on.

Posted via CB10

Ah, I see the small minds that try to turn anything into an anti-USA bash. I'm sorry you lack the sophistication to hold an argument without resorting to simpleton remarks...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Ah, meant to say "I see the small minds that try to turn anything into an anti-USA bash have invaded CB."

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Your comment holds no weight. Before calling out someone about their opinion you should do some research. Android security is very low to the point of Non-existent... Sorry if I popped your bubble.

Corey, you keep on saying "wrong", and yet offer no reason as to why or what is "wrong". I think you're just some kid that can't stand the fact that BlackBerry is more secure than the others, including Android.

As to this Blackphone: Walk a mile in Black berry's shoes first, then talk crap.

Posted via BlackBerry Z30, the BEST smartphone out today!

Ummm, Corey, isn't Android "open source "? which means that the code is there for one and ALL to modify or play with. BlackBerry is NOT open source software. You need a key to modify Any code within. Ain't gonna happen. The M8 is a nice phone though. If only it ran BlackBerry 10.2.............

Rocking a Z30 on Verizon

Seriously.... ok, let's think..., BlackBerry had to do a compromise cause they are impenetrable, so... nobody else had to do it cause they were easy to access.... I think this is a commercial to BlackBerry if your IQ is higher enough.
In reply to Cory , android fan:, I had android phones till I become an important person, after that I realise that my phone is no longer toy, it's a business tool, 'till your growing up....., farewell and let cb10 for the mature people! , it's natural for BlackBerry to have so many enemies, the global trend is control over peoples.

Posted via CB10

Wrong again Cory. You might need some toilet paper for all the crap you're spewing out of your mouth. Typical ant-American... somehow America is at fault when you're trying to talk crap about a Canadian company? and your precious Android is American...?

What does being "American" have to do with it? What is it with external countries thinking poorly about us? Why? What are we, the American people, doing to you? Plus, based on your avatar I will assume your British in which case you have NO room to talk. Android is secure while your country LITERALLY has cameras on every street corner, ally way, etc.

I just don't get it...I don't like what my government is doing AT ALL (believe me!) but to just "typical American" is really stupid and closed minded.

It is possible to configure a secure Android handset. You need:

1. An Android device with an unlockable bootloader.
2. A custom ROM such as CyanogenMod, Carbon, Paranoid Android, Slim, AOKP, Omni, etc.
3. Orbot APK
4. Orweb APK
5. OpenKeyChain APK
6. K-9 email client beta that supports OpenKeyChain API
7. An email account with a system (offices, servers) not located in the USA, Canada, France, Australia, New Zealand, Russia, Germany, Sweden, or other countries that readily share information with police and government. There are many such services.

I prefer CyanogenMod because it also supports encrypted SMS and phone calls.

This device, while Android, would have no Google services on board. All your traffic would be transparently redirected to the Tor network. All your SMS and phone calls would be encrypted end-to-end. Your emails would be encrypted end-to-end.

This is the closest to secure that I can devise.

Too bad you're still wrong. And CyanogenMod has now this little thingy here:
"Arbitration – We’ve added an arbitration clause to our Terms. While we don’t anticipate legal action, this provides a quicker and more efficient way to resolve any potential legal disputes, and skips the long process of courts."

Sorry to burst you're little bubble there. Android isn't secure. Dealt with it.

Source: http://www.cyanogenmod.org/blog/privacy-policy-and-terms-of-use-update

In Canada the Supreme Court has recently confirmed the need for a warrant. That is if you haven't already given your permission away....

Posted via CB10

Seriously! Why is BlackBerry even allowing them to make a play on their name? Shut that shit down already.

Posted via rotary phone

Damn son, JC was being nice about it the first round and this is how Blackphone responds.

Let's see how BlackBerry takes this one.

Posted via CB10 app - Right on "Que" (LE)

The problem is that Blackberry is giving these guys free publicity. And they're taking that free publicity and trying to create the impression that BB phones are crap. So now you have more negative publicity for BB that questions their security and viability. I'm not sure if that's what Chen wanted to get himself into.

Which is why BB's rebuttal to BP's "response" needs to be very carefully considered, however entitled they are to argue.

A PR pissing match doesn't look great for BB...

But it would keep them in the news with the buzzwords BLACKBERRY and SECURITY...you know, since we 'typical Americans' have short attention spans and can only comprehend media buzzwords.... ;-)...did anyone else catch that while attempting to rip into BlackBerry, that this Black Phone company had to acknowledge Black berry's recent success? Also, it seems to me that in Black Phone's arguments accusing BlackBerry of betraying it's customers with their security compromises with governments, that they illustrate how their own ambitions will never be allowed to be realized, certainly not any more than the level of a very tiny niche player.

Worked for Apple and Samsung, constantly in court battles a few years back, then people jumped to Samsung cause it was an iPhone clone.

Posted via CB10

Agreed. BB has became way too aggressive lately with their "we're the best in security" statement, specifically with KNOX and now BP. Don't they realize that'll only bring bad sentiments?

If by "nice" you mean "trashing a competitor's product", you must have a different concept of "nice" than I do.

What Chen claimed is that essentially, Blackphone is not suitable for businesses that are interested in security.

And while certainly both companies have their strengths and weaknesses in the realm of security architecture, Blackphone did not start the bashing. I have never seen them taking potshots at BlackBerry until BlackBerry decided to publicly trash their product the other day.

And as far as those claiming that Blackphone was trying to ride on Blackberry's coattails - BlackBerry was named after a fruit, and the fruit was chosen because it abstractly resembled the keyboard layout on early RIM devices.

Whereas Blackphone is named after the idea of "Black" being "secret". I don't see the correlation.

Same here!A long boring email.Pigs must flying in the skies somewhere!

 Incurable Q10  Syndrome.....Keep away!!!!!!

With strong words they are trying to get more attention... It's free advertisement for them, that's all.

Posted via CB10

Blackphone OS is Android. Anything android is full of spam or hell stew or whatever Tim cook described it as.... it's android come on Blackphone

Posted via CB10

Actually it's a highly customized version of Android and that junk is removed or blocked by default. They also advise people about the security implications of installing certain apps, and add features like granular app permissions control that stock Android does not have.

The reason why I do not want any form of Google frameworks to be imported into the BB10 Android runtime is specifically because it is free of most of that snoopery junk. (With the exception of certain aspects of the ad network and the usual risk one takes when installing non-trustworthy apps.)

I am know John Chen means well but he needs to be careful what he says in public about BlackBerry and any of their services or quality there of because BlackBerry doesn't need to be getting themselves into a pissing match with another competitor. It won't fair good for BlackBerry.

LOL... just said the same thing a few posts up.

Arguing with these guys in public doesn't accomplish anything ("never argue with an idiot... nobody else will be able to tell the difference...")

They definitely don't want to argue but they can't be silence either. That's a conundrum.

Using Z10, wanting Z30, eyeing Windermere

I think BlackBerry shouldn't criticize others because it's easy to point errors in BlackBerry, and that's what is going on. BlackBerry should focus in it's own products, prove that are best then the others but by the word of mouth, and not criticizing what others do. It's like Microsoft and Samsung marketing strategy, and i believe that the common client don't understand that way, and that's bad for BlackBerry image.

Yes agree, John Chen should be cool and collective. And speak about the competition with respect. To a certain extent.

The issue here is BlackPhone, KNOX, MobileIron and Good all started the Pissing match. They all started to hammer BlackBerry when they were down and struggling. The struggles are almost finished.

The problem with BlackBerry excelling once again in the industry is simply, and in the competition's eyes, is the fact they can all go out of business.

Ask Blackphone why they chose to name there device "BlackPhone". Simply to cause confusion IMO. Sounds like "Black"Berry right...

Posted on my Q5

Hmmm..

But 'Phone' and 'Berry' don't really rhyme?

And they could easily justify the 'Black' by pointing to their 'target customers' "Black Ops" and the general association of Black and Darkness with privacy..

Tbh I'm surprised they responded, it just shows that they'll go for easy pickings.. pointing to share price which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with BlackBerry's products in terms of security and functionality..

What's their share price atm btw?.. oh.. never mind

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The first thing that came to mind when first seeing the brand "Blackphone" was that it was BlackBerry re-branded. I suspect Mr. Chen is mulling over his options about now. Blackphone could find themselves in the intellectual property crosshairs a la Typo.

Via CB10, Z10 rocking official 10.2.1

To me, clearly by naming the phone the way they did, they are attempting to capitalize on the security reputation of BlackBerry. And now they are attempting to marginalize that reputation. The whole thing seems kinda silly to me. Do they really expect they can accomplish the security standards they are promising? Over what network and on what carriers?

Fully Agree.
BlackPhone is trying to cause confusion and making it sound like it's a BlackBerry.

Posted on my Q5

The BlackBerry product from Research in Motion was named after a fruit that bore an abstract resemblance to the keyboard layout on that early product. The name had NOTHING to do with security.

Whereas Blackphone uses the term "black" in the context of "secrecy". This had nothing to do with the BlackBerry corporate name. (Though one could argue a loose BB association because it has been a longtime emphasis of the company in recent years. But that's a much much weaker claim.)
So as far as I'm concerned, that's a red herring.

As for Blackphone "starting the pissing match" - I'd like to see the evidence of that.

I think you made it up. As far as I can tell, it was **BlackBerry** that started the pissing-match here.

I agree. BlackBerry tried to bully the new kid in the playground and the new kid just smacked the bully in the mouth and took his lunch.

SGP's ace in the hole is CEO Toby Weir-Jones at this time. BlackBerry underestimated the power of the small but capable Blackphone staff, now based out of Switzerland. They failed to notice that Toby Weir-Jones can WRITE. She's isn't just a CEO sitting on the top floor of a corner office. She's in the trenches, her sleeves rolled up and getting her hands dirty. Some I don't see John Chen being capable of. Google her and you'll see several examples of her excellent writing skill.

I really hope BlackBerry is able to stay alive because I love my Q10 and I'm looking forward to the Classic and other future qwerty devices. But the fact is that blackberry mis-calculated when they thought they were going to push blackphone out of the market. All they've done is drawn A LOT of free press for blackphone and managed to earn a black eye in the process.

Posted via CB10

It's a fine line. I agree that negative marketing is really toxic, but I also believe a company is entitled to assert itself and state its strengths over the competition.

Specifically naming a competitor and essentially calling their product inadequate (or in this case, "inappropriate for businesses" - the title of their blog post) is not the same as simply "stating their strengths".

What Chen is demonstrating is how sensitive the company is to competition in the market segment that it has pinned almost all of its future hopes upon.

What Blackphone has done is something so far unique in the marketplace: a product line that makes INDIVIDUAL USER privacy and security its major interest and focus. BlackBerry loves to tout security - especially for businesses - but they are conspicuously silent on the question of individual user privacy. Which stands out like a sore thumb given their general security rhetoric. (Honestly - their blog post critical of Blackphone was the FIRST time I've seen them specifically tout user privacy since before release of the first BB10 device.)

If BlackBerry wants to lay claim to protection of individual user privacy, all they have to do is publicly take that stand and demonstrate why their technology accomplishes that. But they have not. Nor do I think they will. And this is precisely what Blackphone's rebuttal points-out. And various other commentators have reported on how various aspects of BB10 are questionable when it comes to user privacy. (The automatic email account setup process, the various diagnostic data sent back to Blackberry without the knowledge/consent of users, some of Blackberry's app metrics reporting services, etc.)

The assumption that because Blackphone starts from a place of individual user privacy and not enterprise security that their product cannot be adequate for businesses is a very big leap. Especially since while BlackBerry's blog post talks a lot about corporate CONTROL over users - specifically in highly-regulated industries - the post's TITLE presumes to claim that Blackphone's product is not appropriate for ANY business.

And that's FUD. Especially since if BB's main contention is lack of central control, Blackphone does have some of that and more could be added. Whereas if user privacy is not a fundamental part of the design emphasis in this sort of product that cannot really be easily bolted-on later without changing all sorts of other design elements.

I didn't read the article where BlackBerry was discussing Blackphone. Were they asked to comment or provoked? If unprovoked then this is probably not horrible to expect from Blackphone. Blackphone isn't going to be success with some companies that do monitor their employee's messages. There are a lot of those. They are trying to carve their little niche like everyone else. I have not opinion other than they are not BlackBerry so I won't pay too much attention to what they are doing.

"He even goes so far as to say BlackBerry's previous tiffs with local governments over lawful interception are..."

Man, the suspense...

Only problem is that Blackberry has been on the loosing end of most feuds for the last ten or so years.

Blackberry always.....

Well that's the good thing with BlackBerry, keeps fighting and one day we will one, the next two... so on...

Posted via CB10

Damnit, English! I hate that knowing you so very well causes me to misread so many messages with minor typos!

"Losing"; BTW, mate. Though, I agree with your sentiment.

Blargh, Blargh! CB10 blargh.

Yeah loosing in place of losing drives me insane as well. Soooo many people do it and it's just plain wrong lol.

Posted via CB10

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I read (months ago) they did formulate their own PrivatOS Android-based software, but for many of the security features they currently talk about were essentially nothing more than third-party apps that come pre-installed on the device.

Posted via CB10

BINGO.

But there colourful marketing will make it seem as though there security offerings are superior.
Just like KNOX and MobileIron being penetrated, so will Blackphone. We are talking about Android for goodness sakes, the most un-secure mobile OS in existence. Lol

Posted on my Q5

Yep! Better off buying a Nexus 5 and installing their app suite, rather than their pos mid-tier bootlegphone. Or just buy a real BlackBerry.

Posted via rotary phone

Can somebody notify Blackphone that this is 2014 and not 2012.
And can somebody notify them that regardless of market share, BlackBerry 10 dominates in Security. So badmouthing BlackBerry in this adolescent behavior is absolute nonsense.

Posted on my Q5

Read the full article and am saddened at the fact that they are afraid to open this up to public scrutiny and discussion. Couldn't find a readers post or comment area anywhere.

Posted via CB10 on my Q10

Sheesh, whereas BlackBerry came across as measured and even encouraging, Blackphone just sounds like a company of whiny, petty, and childish idiots.

Posted via CB10

It's worse than that. They seemingly intentionally mentioned the "tiff" with Saudi, UAE, and India and implied BlackBerry had given them something to compromise BES communications. From my understanding what BlackBerry begrudgingly gave was the ability to crack BIS encryption and they didn't even give them the keys just an algorithm to make decryption of individual messages possible. They are playing on the knowledge that most people don't know there is a difference. Rest assured if Blackphone were to become a popular device in those countries it would be forced to provide nothing less than what BlackBerry was to continue to do business there.

Sorry, but all this talk of "security" by BlackBerry, and my Q10 doesn't have built-in OpenPGP support, I can't transparently proxy data to the Tor network, I don't have a working configurable call blocker, and I can only connect to a handful of VPN types. Time to get your shit together, BlackBerry.

When purchasing a BlackBerry it shouldn't be a difference between BIS and BES, or do I misunderstand something?

What about BB10 which doesn't need BIS? I would like to understand these topics better.

Posted via CB10

BB10 does not support BIS (BlackBerry Internet Service) at all. BB10 relies on a carrier data connection just like Android and iOS phones. BES (BlackBerry Enterprise Server) can be installed on a server a business owns, or hosted in the cloud by BlackBerry. Either way, the corporation can configure and control user profiles, deploy apps, etc. for either enterprise-owned phones given to employees, or phones employees own that are corporate-enabled. Currently BES 10 supports Android, iOS, and BlackBerry (BB10 and BBOS), with support coming soon to Windows Phone when BES 12 rolls out this fall. When you buy a BB10 phone you're certainly not on BIS, and unless your employer uses BES you won't be on that either.

BlackBerry does NOT control encryption keys for BES servers installed and managed by the company, but I'm not sure about the cloud BES option hosted by BlackBerry.

So basically you're saying that BlackBerry phones are no more secure than any other ios or android phone unless your blackberry phone was issued to you from a business that is using BES.

Security is a lot more complex than using the BIS or not. But as far as the data connection goes, BB is in the same boat as everyone else.

What can a black phone do better then BlackBerry

that blackberry cannot already do or cannot easily adopt?

Dreaming about the white Passport

*grabs opera glasses for the oncoming show*...and the next act, "Swans of tech: A smartphone pissing match", conducted by John Chen.

But in all honesty, it's the nature of the business. If one comes out swinging, the other will more than likely as well.

I certainly don't agree with all the points Blackphone made, but I understand the position they were in.

I understand the idea of flexibility, but an OS that bills itself as more secure than BlackBerry yet is built on Android really needs to reassess that statement. Is BlackBerry perfect? No. I do however have faith in their security whereas Android I do not as much, no matter how locked down and rooted it may be.

You cannot take an inherently insecure foundation and build some great features into the frame, call it ultra secure, then call it a day. Programming does not necessarily work that way if the base of what you're working off of isn't secure to begin with.

Just my thoughts.

Your comment saying Android isn't secure is pathetic and stupid. Given that Android is open source and by the very nature of open source it isn't the most secure. Open Source will always be more secure than closed source

Posted with the HTC M8 via the CrackBerry App

*Listens in* Did you hear that, Topanga? That was the sound of what little faux credibility you were trying to exude going down the can while simultaneously exposing yourself as a mere troll.

Ha ha ha! Open source, more secure? Lololol, hack,hack, choke. Oh sorry, laughed too hard and choked. Dude, open source means the CODE is there for ANYONE to play with and MODIFY! Just Google (snicker) open source software (hehe) and see what you get. And I'm so happy Black phone is using a 'Custom' 'open source ' software. You can get the same security as the black phone by downloading the same apps they preload. Honestly, the only "Secure " phone system would be one that has an entirely encrypted network down to and including the handsets. BES?

Rocking a Z30 on Verizon

You should really read the Guardian. They have done a broad expose, not just on the poor security of the Android operating system, but on how Google executives meet and work with NSA officials to track, monitor and steal private information mainly from US citizens. Quite shocking actually. Time to pull your head out of the sand.

Okay, so help me to understand this. On the one hand you say that open source is not the most secure due to its nature and then on the other hand you say that open source is more secure than closed source. So, which is it?

Posted via CB10

You might want to learn what troll is. And now to spell and how to speak proper English. Bore off
Posted with the HTC M8 via the CrackBerry App

I think Corey is the guy in the commercial for the HTC One M8. You know, with the glasses and beard and metronome. Guess he's mad he bought into it lol

Rocking a Z30 on Verizon

Lol..He's definitely a Blackphone representative..If not, he should be paid to be one, then this foolishness he spews would be worth it.

Posted via CB10

"Open source will always be more secure than Closed source "......WOW. That is a very very broad supposition with a very specific instance of proof.

Quit while you are behind Corey.

A security system whose algorithms are public, that can be scrutinized against errors and back doors, is inherently more secure than a closed system which cannot be verified. Security through obscurity is not security at all.

Well, I wonder if you tell everyone your passwords so they can help you to make a safer one, or if you hide it from them improving it by yourself. Seriously.

Posted via my superb Z10

Of course I wouldn't want to share my passwords. But the software mechanisms that check my passwords... I'd like those to be open source, to make sure they actually work as described. But I'm pretty sure you're either trolling, or you just don't understand anything at all. Either way, this conversation is a dead end.

I understand what you are saying but you're working on the assumption that every single person checking the algorithm has good intentions and it only meant to contribute, and that is pretty naive.

Closed source would be always more secure because the less people prying on your thing, the lesser the risk of a catastrophic mistake being know and exploited.

I would love that people were all good and meant well, but unfortunately that's not the world in we all live in, and is the very reason as for why security exist in the first place.

No offence, did you just regurgitate a Google exec's "clarification" after the gaffe in which the same exec stated that "Android was not designed with security in mind"?

Also, the argument you are making would hold up only if every iteration of Android OS out there was released to public for public scrutiny. Not even one is available to the public to scrutinize.

Posted via CrackBerry App

The only problem with your now apparent trolling argument re: open vs closed source, is that, while open source does afford people the opportunity to review the coding, you are forgetting one fundamental flaw to this: someone whom is actually qualified to review the code.

Let us take the example of TrueCrypt (RIP); while the coding was available to all, sure, how long was it before a firm of reputable experts actually took to meticulously reviewing the codes? Years! Even after all that time, it still took a fundraising campaign to secure the funding to even perform that analysis.

If you considering yourself a lead programmer with years of experience, including fluency in all things Android, and heck, are a cryptologist too, then sure, you have a shot at proving your argument is worth its salt. Until such time, it is merely a pipe dream to trumpet the virtues of open source when not a single soul sets out to do a thorough analysis.

Secondly, I ask of you, how do you go about explaining Google's rather embarrassing involvement with the NSA, essentially to the point of giving them on demand access to all of their data? Oh, but surely that must only be for the search engine you'll say!...Nope...Gmail, Google Drive, heck, even Google Chrome was found to have a backdoor to allow remote control of the microphone of a computer!

Tell me, how well does that bode for Android? Tell me, where are the leaks about BlackBerry's essential bending over for the NSA? I'll wait...*crickets*

I'll also ask, how is it you explain Angela Merkel's security team purposely picking a Q-10 BlackBerry phone to install their ultra-secure Secusmart chip in? Why not...*snorts*....Knox? Haha. Oh, that is hilarious enough I don't even need to run through why that would be like installing the NSA app for on-demand spying. If Android is just that much more secure than BlackBerry, why do world leaders choose BlackBerry repeatedly?

Next thing you know, you are going to be parroting those tech columnist shills that are claiming Windows Phone is an "up and comer" in security! Oh goodness, please do go on a rant about how Microsoft protects your security. I do need another good laugh today!

You must be kidding right? Open Source means OPEN. Anybody can use it. And ANYBODY can Crack it. Android is a bloody Security Nightmare. FACT.

BlackBerry 10 is not only closed, it provides the best security ever to date. FACT.

Posted on my Q5

So, uh, how do I go about encrypted P2P calling? Buy everyone a Blackphone? Sound plan, guys. Two thumbs up. The second thumb's for talking about how "most enterprises are deploying mobility solutions today." How many deployments do you have, again?

This is the very first thought that came to mind. Security has to be end to end. Even Blackberry devices are not "secure" unless they are a part of BES.

Posted via CrackBerry App

Black phone stop trying to get free advertising from BlackBerry customers, get your own customers

Posted via CB10

Those are some strong NOTHING words. A lot of words to say, "Quick, we've got to fire something back at 'em. Anything we've got? Throw the pillow!!!!"

I still can not understand, how can a form of Android be presented as secure?! And the same guys take BlackBerry into their mouths?

Posted via CB10

This guy is funny ^^^^. I think Black phone should hire him for their PR. Dress him like a caveman and he can say grunts and two or three words at a time. "So, black phone is not good?". Him^^ "wrong ". "But it's running Android? ". Him^^ "open source secure than everything ". Rotflmao!! I can see the commercial now! Lol

Rocking a Z30 on Verizon

Android 4.4 security...just blew my coffee all over my Z10, good thing I have a otter case.

Posted via CB10

I think Blackphone made a good point. Chen's "consumer grade" choice of words proves their point about customers betrayal.

About time security became an explicit part of the conversation; BlackBerry failed to exploit this selling point for far too long in the face of blatantly abusive and illegal behavior by the NSA among others. Let's keep the subject top of mind as BlackBerry continues to build out the BB10 infrastructure.

Posted via CB10

They do have a point... BB did spit all over their userbase, multiple times over. Worst of all was the Playbook owners (not to mention late BBOS adopters that had their phones become end of life quickly due to new OS versions not supporting recent devices).

BlackBerry should for good measure announce a 512 bit encryption process for all its clients.

This can be implemented in 10.3.5- 10.4

The silence from Black phone would be deafening.

Posted via CB10

It's true, open is better than closed in every single way BUT it doesn't get much worse, if any, than Google, who owns and runs Android.

Posted via CB10

Blackphone is a load of shit. They are complete blackberry wannabes. To be competing again blackberry and be named blackphone, that is wannabe in my books. Good luck to blackphone saying that blackberry has low market share. That may be true, but at least they have market share....

Posted via CB10

Sounds like somebody's (Blackphone Toby) been backed into a corner, thus making insane statements under duress at the superiority of BlackBerry's security, devices, and infrastructure.

What's RIM? Wasn't 2010 over four years ago now? LOL...

some fightin' words from the depraved

Posted via CB10

If BlackPhone was based on Linux kernel alone with a security centered BlackPhone developed userland and didn't use Android it would be cool.

Posted with my Awesome Z10 via CB10

No BlackBerry response needed. BP thought BlackBerry would be gone by now, not going anywhere under Chen. BP will be in life support within the next 6-12 months.

Posted via CB10

Psstt....Hey Blackphone, here's a secret: It's "BlackBerry," two capital Bs, and the "RIM" name isn't used anymore. Maybe consider sounding informed when you're attacking a rival?

Big words from a nobody. Should copy and paste them fighting words somewhere so we can find them in a year when the CrapPhone is a failure. I'm sure Mr. Chen and Co and shaking in the boots. Whatever.

Posted via CB10

I wouldn't be surprised if they are shaking in their boots because the battle here isn't over who is more secure, but of the perception of security.

As it stands BlackBerry's perceived by many as a dead company. Most don't even know it still makes phones. The people that do know it still makes phones view it as over the hill; no longer a player.

Where as the perception of Blackphone is of a fresh company, focused on security, based on the loved and familiar andriod platform. With Blackphone to have your data "secured" you don't have to go to a lame and teribble OS you can stay on android. In other words you can have your cake and eat it too.

I hate to say this, as I hate to play dirty, but if JC was smart he would employ one of these firms that specialize in finding Zero Days and publicly compromise Blackphone via hacking the platform and holding the phones for ransom like the incident in Australia. The resulting perception of blackphone's security would evaporate very quickly.

It's like Handbags at dawn.

'BlackPhone' release a product and want the market, so they slay the main competition.

And why call it 'BlackPhone'

Posted via CB10

They used Black in the name to bring over blackberry users. BlackBerry should sue them.

Mikescraftbeer.com - C00012735/ Mike Garson Photography - C00471EA8

Isn't the reason BlackBerry had to compromise that their system was so secure nobody could get in ? Other systems didn't have to compromise because they weren't as secure and government already had access.

Posted via CB10

Them fighting words from a company with no products available, no history, no track record, no market share, no sales, no "mobile deployments", no creativity or originality and most of all, no credibility. A "secure" phone built by an unproven start-up that runs on android? Ill stick with my BlackBerry thank you very much.

Sent from my Z10. Or was it my Q10? Either way, it was sent from an awesome phone.

Perhaps someone can answer my question. As a consumer with no enterprise solutions in sight and in the market for phones for each family member, what would give me the best out of the box (or at least easy to work out)security for my family: BB10 phones or Blackphones? If someone knows the answer, I'd love to know.

Huuu... it hurts, right?

The words of a guilty kid: cried and empty.

And anyway, the "opening" was forced by the government of those countries, and they installed a BES server. They didn't opened up their encryption level, they work in a separate network.

Posted via CB10

I don't know... there are some valid points in BP's note. The RIM discussions with the middle eastern governments were never clarified and who knows what agreements were made.

So, everything hinges on your view of history. How much of a predictor of the future is BlackBerry's past? Personally, I believe in John Chen's team's ability to turn the company around. Thus, for me the history is marginal in moving forward.

My Q10 is mine alone. So, I do not/cannot have access to the BES levels of security that BlackBerry promises enterprise users. It occurs to me that this is an area that BlackBerry could monetize, but would anyone trust any company that is subject to the pressures that were pointed out in the BP article?

Posted via CB10

The bottom line is that RIM/BlackBerry has a very long history, and one that was thoroughly respected until only very recently: which of course to which BlackBerry has been on the upswing. Also, Blackphone needs to take into consideration that RIM/BlackBerry only declined in sales because the old guard refused to build the phones that the consumers wanted, not because RIM relaxed security.

Realistically, Android OS can be as secure as the authors want it to be, but let's face it: with the prevalence of Google/Android/Facebook and so on it is evident without a doubt that the typical consumer does not care about security. This phone will probably sell very well in the U.S. through Credo, but I honestly don't think anyone besides spies, terrorists, conspiracy theorists, and drug dealers are going to give a hoot about encrypted peer-to-peer phone conversations.

Sounds to me like Goliath is helping to ensure David remains relevant. Regarding the "strong word's ", the first half of that excerpt sounds like fluff by someone without sufficient facts or details to drive home his point.
And I wonder what accusation they're trying to counter with that statement. Hmmm

I see nothing wrong with BlackBerry taking on other offerings in terms of superiority or sufficiency, as long as the claims can be backed up. A well publicized pissing match and the resulting free marketing and advertising, may serve BlackBerry well - as long as they walk the walk.

Everything they said is wrong right down to calling the passport a passbook. Dumb bunch of ignorant idiots if I may say so lol.

Gotta hand it to them tho, instead of sticking to relevant facts they end up having a pop about BlackBerry and their market share. How big is blackphone's market share?? Non existent and probably won't be around in the next 5 yrs if they are lucky to survive one year.

Posted via CB10

People who have shaky trademarks should not throw stones. At least the keyboard strap-on guys had sense enough not to slam Blackberry in public.

If I were someone who cared that much about my privacy, I'd go with the secusuite z10 on bes10 for encrypted phone calls

It does cost 2000 euros, but blackberry still offers a superior solution to the blackphone for encrypted voice calling

Posted via CB10

Meh. Hopefully BlackBerry responds.

Starting with: in 2010 it was a different BlackBerry, with different CEOS and management, a different OS, a non-cross platform approach, no support for BYOD and no QNX.

Other than that... everything is the same as it was in 2010, lol.

Posted via CB10

I can't believe this crap! It was even noted some time that Android third party offerings of what seemed to be anti-virus scanners did not even detect 65% of the malware on that platform! While consumers aren't as security driven in their choices however, there is still that little voice in the back of your head that goes off when you see an article about a breach in privacy!While BlackBerry may not be perfect it certainly is the "GOLD" standard for mobile security and that's "FACT not FICTION"!

Posted via CB10

The best malware detector, in fact the only really effective one, is your BRAIN. Don't download dodgy apps from third party stores. Don't install pirated apps whose history you don't know. Just use your BRAIN. How hard is it?

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