BlackBerry Z30 beats out iPhone, Moto X and Lumia 1020 as best phone to blog with at CES!

By Bla1ze on 10 Jan 2014 06:42 pm EST
40
loading...
0
loading...
396
loading...

With pretty much every tech blog at CES this week there has been a lot of blogging going on across the internet. The folks over at WIRED decided to take a different approach this year and try to cover the event using their smartphones in something the called Smartphone Thunderdome. No DSLR's, no laptops, no compact-system cameras. Just smartphones. The devices used ended up being a BlackBerry Z30, iPhone 5s, Nokia Lumia 1020 and finally, a Motorola X.

Covering CES with the proper gear is hard enough as we know from our own #CESlive coverage, doing it from only smartphone? That's kinda crazy. No matter though, the folks at WIRED were doing it and with CES quickly coming to a close, WIRED has done their due diligence and posted up who exactly came out on top in their Smartphone Thunderdome​.

  • 1st place - Tim Moynihan and the BlackBerry Z30 - 257.5 points - "I took a lot of ribbing for using a BlackBerry. It's not as fancy as the other phones in the contest, apparently. But you know what? Doesn't matter. It's still a phone that can be used to cover a large electronics tradeshow. That’s pretty amazing. Technology is pretty amazing in general these days, you know? These things fit in your pocket! And they're like laptops except better."
  • 2nd Place - Christina Bonnington and the iPhone 5s - 147.75 points - "Keeping track of my iPhone’s battery life is probably the single most important thing during the day, because if my device dies, I can’t post. Luckily, I do have the iPhone, which gets good battery life. But using my phone as my sole means of computing means I'm fully recharging it at least three times a day, I’d estimate (although I try to never let it dip below 50 percent)."
  • 3rd Place - Robbie Baldwin and the Nokia Lumia 1020 - 145 points - "I’m very happy that I brought the Lumia 1020 along to CES. For me, it was a grand experiment to see what could be accomplished on a platform that's foreign to me. If Joe, Mike, and Bryan told me I had to use Windows Phone next year, I’d be perfectly fine with that. Hell, the keyboard is better than the iPhone and that was what really mattered most the time."
  • 4th Place - Mat Honan and the Moto X - 100 points - His Moto X got a cracked screen.  "This is supposed to be a real-world challenge. And I'm going to challenge myself to use this crazy cracked-ass Moto X just as you'd have to if it broke on you early in your contract. It’s going to suck. But I’ll deal."

Wired doesn't state how their scoring structure was broken down in the post but they do note that overall, the BlackBerry Z30 took the points for Overall Winner, Best Photography, and Most Posts. They also have wrap-ups from each their writers with further comments on their site, so if you're looking for the full details then by all means head on over to WIRED and check it out.

Reader comments

BlackBerry Z30 beats out iPhone, Moto X and Lumia 1020 as best phone to blog with at CES!

388 Comments

Do your research guys....

"Competitors will earn 25 points for each of the show days they blog exclusively from their phones, as well as 25 points apiece for four additional criteria that we will announce on the first full day of the show. We will also announce at least four mini-challenges of varying points-value over the course of the week."

You are now in my Bingo Book

It's kinda odd that quicksilver isn't giving out for the word FIRST Kevin wrote in his post..

Posted via CB10

Whether this occurrence was tongue-in-cheek-encased-in-legitimate-use or not, Kevin has also pointed out he could always be first, if he really wanted to, with the power of deleting posts, except for the PITA factor of why bother. I can't imagine why anyone would bother to make that first post their goal (rather, pointing out that the post is first, having no content other than pointing it out...), for the life of me, but each to his or her own.

I can see why it can grate on the nerves, though -- the mere fact of being first is self-evident, is that not enough of an 'achievement'? Making a point of it is like someone pointing at his junk and saying "Look, I'm a boy." Yes, we can see that...

I have purchased 3 z10’s for me and my family. My wife and daughter reluctantly agreed to use them. They both wanted Iphones. 6 months later they both still have their z10’s and apologize for doubting me. I cant wait to put a z30 in their hands. Thanks for keeping the faith. And keeping us informed.

Me too. I have one, my wife has one, and most recently my daughter. She was so excited when she opened it at Christmas, and that was very much worth it. I do like hearing her show it off to her iPhone friends when they ask, "Wow, that's a BlackBerry?" and she answers without hesitation. Also, when she texts or messages people, she actually spells stuff out, because, well, the BB10 keyboard rocks!

Encouraging your daughter to use proper spelling and grammar through the power of BB10... *sniff* if that isn't a BlackBerry success story, I don't know what is!

You are so right! Even compared to my 9900 and other BlackBerry devices I spell out everything, except lol or rofl!

Posted from the Zed 10 on the cool CB10 app

I did the same with my kids (Zed10's). They want iPhone's but while I'm paying the bills, it's BlackBerry or nothing.. waiting for my wife's contract to expire to get her into a new Q10... as for me, I love my zed30! it's awesome in some any ways..

Posted via CB10 using my new Zed30 check out my channel @ C00121C1B

That's how my mom was until my siblings wanted Androids so she went out of her way to get the cheapest Android. She usually leaves it up to my dad to buy the expensive Androids. If she's buying anything expensive she's buying BlackBerry. :)

Posted via CB10

They will love it. I just switched to the Z30, and I love it.

Posted via CB10 ~ visit my portrait channel C0011B779

And by a nice size margin to lol

[URL="bbmc:C0001BBA7"]CLICK HERE[/URL] To Join My Music & Poetry Channel. Please&Thanks.

By a pretty freakin' huge margin too! More than 100 pts over the 2nd place phone?! Very proud of the Z30 for showing up and showing out for BlackBerry.

And remember this guy never used BB10 while the girl who ran the iphone, I believe it is her daily driver. Now that is speaking volumes. I have the z30 and it totally rocks.

Posted via CB10

Z30 can garner as much points as it wants and beat out any phone; if it doesn't translate into sales for BlackBerry, who cares? Don't get me wrong; I love BlackBerry, it's time we get real and focus on what matters.

Posted via CB10

Oh good. When BlackBerry needs to be focusing on John Chen's new mandate, and get back to what BlackBerry devices used to be first and foremost: the most reliable communication device in the world, they're winning awards for blogging? Man, I can't wait to use that as a sales pitch to get people back to the BlackBerry platform.

Said no one ever.

Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898

Ahh, I see what you did there with the play on the word, kudos. And KUDOS to bb10; Shows what I've been trying to get across to my mates all along since I put hands on this wonderful machine. Huzzah!

.1925 bangingest version, so frickin' good. Zeddy approves.

We were keeping track of it in the forum. Yesterday it was a word count challenge. Tim was able to type 1,000 more words than the runner up on the iPhone. He mentioned how the predictive text made that possible. The one thing we didn't get from him, was whether the battery life helped him get the bonus challenges, since he wouldn't have to charge his phone 3 times a day, like the iPhone.

Yea I was active in that forum thread too. I would just like to commend Longan on his great coverage of the challenge. He constantly posted updates & links to Tim's various activities :)

No, its battery would have died in a second. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my Z10 but you don't cover events with this thing. You use the Z30 for that.

Via CB10 on Z10 | T-Mo | 10.2.1.1925

I agree. I love my Z10 but I have three batteries for it (one of them is kept in the charging bundle) a rapid charger in the car and a PlayBook charger at home and in the office.

I've been thinking long and hard about a z30 over the past few weeks.

Posted via CB10

makes it worthwhile*

(sorry, not being a grammar nazi, just pointing it out so you learn. It's a common mistake with absolutely zero meaning to it.)

Wow, that's a lot of gear to make sure you've got charge but I know where you're coming from. It seems you already have invested enough to make your Z10 work for you, so it is entirely your call for the Z30. Although, it would make things a lot more convenient...

When I had a Z10, I'd snap on a form fitting battery pack. Just press the button and voila recharge on the go. I actually liked the solid heavier feel of the the two together. Now rocking a Z30.

Don Diego endorses the Zed.

I had a Z10 and now have the Z30. The two biggest differences that I notice that really benefit me are Miracast and the battery. My Z10 needed charging as soon as I got home for dinner where my Z30 only gets plugged in at bed time. Speed is not the issue.

Posted via CB10

The z30 is faster and more stable when rotating videos. It is the best device on the market period. I know the masses cannot believe it, but it is true. So I look at my z30 as an elite device. Only a few have one.

Posted via CB10

I saw they were going to try this, they were giving the guy flack for getting stuck with the Z30 right from the start. So happy to see it placing 1st!

Posted via CB10

Yes, it's unfortunate how easily influenced people are by the media. Even educated people can be too lazy to form their own opinion.

Posted via CB10

Whereas the Canadian media in trying to appear cool, relevant and cutting edge is quite willing to throw a Canadian company under the bus and love on American competitors without a thought to any longer term consequences, like job losses. Party on....

Posted via CB10

Nonsense. The Canadian media and majority of the Canadian public have little good to say about BlackBerry. Pop culture rules on Canada.

Posted via CB10

He will have some fun at home, where no one is watching.

And change the signature, easy done

Send from my... you know what

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....

I smell the irony and sarcasm.

Sarcasm detector way up in red, ... oh maxed out..., help! **POFF!** just blew up in my face, lol

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....

Aww did siri type this for you? If you had a real keyboard you could type your pathetic douce insult and look just like a loser, but with this you look like a loser and a hack! Good job.

BlackBerry forever, haters never!

Cool down, it's clearly sarcasm, he posted it further down. Sorry you didn't pick it.

Nospacesandexaggeratedchoiceofwordsshouldhavegivenitaway

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....

"Because we’re not monsters, the decision will not be arbitrary. Competitors will earn 25 points for each of the show days they blog exclusively from their phones, as well as 25 points apiece for four additional criteria that we will announce on the first full day of the show. We will also announce at least four mini-challenges of varying points-value over the course of the week."

That's awesome!!! Still keeping my fingers crossed that AT&T will carry it. I want a white one soooooo bad!!

Posted via CB10

Yes that is awesome news! I got a black Verizon Z30 on day one and was thinking how nice it would look in white. I also think it would look awesome in an all silver/gray color or even brushed aluminum finish, it is still oh so awesome in any color really, but an industrial look would just be so dammed cool.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App on a 2nd gen Nexus 7 32gb tablet when I'm not on my BlackBerry Z30!

You can get one unlocked for about $500, you lucky, lucky Americans. Nrr. Such a PITA to get one in Canada. "Three day wait after ordering, with a plan no matter what.", or damn near...

It's good to see the z30 getting some traction out there...I'm on day 3 of mine and I can't put it down...lol

Posted by my GINORMOUS Z30

Know the feeling. It's been over a month and it seems I haven't put the thing down except to charge. Exceptional tool and toy.

Don Diego endorses the Zed.

Go blackberry. I want a Z30n but with a keyboard. Is the typo available for it? Just joking.

Still rocking the Q10, unless Kevin gives me his Porshe Z10 or Z30

Posted via CB using my Q10

This is what I thought. I hope the event gets some wider coverage or mentions in other media outlets. But maybe the contest is more a reflection on the bloggers rather than the actual phones they were using.

Posted while peeking and flowing on my incredible BBQ10! 

"They" will put it down to the blogger, not the phone. Wait and see.

(Btw, looking forward to next year's contest, if they repeat it. "Hey everybody, who wants to win this year, I have a Z50 here..." ...tumult ensues....)

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....

Yep. Wired and the bloggers participating.

With "they" I meant other tech blogs when they pick it up in a day or two. Particularly the likes of BGR & Co. Sorry, if that wasn't clear.

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....

Awesome win for the Z30!! I have one and there is little I cannot do from the phone. Battery life really rocks!!

Posted via CB10

Not ONLY first place - but almost the same score as the next two competitors combined. Would really like to see how many times the Z30 had to re-charge compared to the 3+ times the iPhone did.

Imagine if that contester were a real BlackBerry Z30 user, someone who's really familiar with all the features BB10 has? Ir would have won by a mile further!

Posted via CB10

I think it illustrated that even no matter what platform you come from you will be better with a BlackBerry. Part of me does not want others to notice that, I don't mind being lonely up at the top.

whenever someone mentions blackberry it's always a back handed compliment. i personally think it's just as fancy if not fancier than other phones

They best is when the haters call it a glorified 2 way pager. LMFAO... OH Ooooookay. Funny how some are so insecure about their platform of choice that they have to trash BBRY just to feel better. SMDH

Posted via CB10

Well when your stuck with the smallest screen and a brutally outdated OS, what is left for a iFan to do. All they have are insults. Denial is strong and pathetically predictable.

Posted via CB10

That's great to see that the Z30 placed first. Speaking of first, what's the point in trying to get first place on the comments? Maybe I want last :)

No phone around can hold a candle to the Z30. It is the world's best kept secret. It is a super...super phone.

Posted via CB10

WHAT??????

BEST PHOTOGRAPHY?

Lumia:
So the sooper-dooper 41MP Lumia 1020 didn't take that one? I would have bet some money on that one. Surprise, surprise here.

Z30: Most posts due to superior keyboard and battery life does not surprise the least. See how specs don't matter in real life for a use case like that?

Moto X: What a laugh. So the Gorilla Glass failed miserably. Ouch. Thanks for fighting anyway, Mat Honan.

iPhone: see how the keyboard got downvoted in favour of a - yes!- Windows phone? And battery drain paranoia of the iPhone's user is very clearly discernible.

----------

Let's see how this result will be taken by other tech blogs in an attempt to trash BB.
Eat that!

Now please BBRY put some positive spin to that and.... Sell like, you know what! (T.H.)

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....

Along with any other positive information about BBRY. Still waiting to see an article on Peugeot Citron, or all of the impressive stuff from QNX at CES (they post a BS engine noise article). And don't get me started on the BS anti-BBRY drivel from that loser Johnny Gellar himself...

Posted via CB10

Kevin managed to trash his Typo after 72 hours, see following articles.

My name is Prem, I'm using BBM ... from my QuZe10 ...whatarhyme...

I wonder if spelling errors were factored in. If so, then the iPhone would have suffered as well. Anyone else find this a nuisance /problem about messages typed on an iPhone?

Posted via CB10

My wife has one,big screen, long battery life,best keyboard and lots of room to use it. + you can plug a USB drive in and view or copy video or whatever without a computer...and a whole lot more.

Posted via CB10

The Z30's superior connectivity options were probably not even factored in when giving that score.

Regret, should have put down a few extra bux and got a 30 instead of the 10.

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....

I have a Z30, and it really is a fantastic device. So smooth, so capable. If BB were not suffering from a badly tarnished brand name, this phone could have some nice market penetration. Unfortunately, because of a tarnished name (and the consequences that come along with that) few will have any idea how good it is.

Posted via CB10

Nothing surprising here. BlackBerry users already know how productive BB10 is. The fact that it wasn't the guy's using it everyday smartphone speaks volumes...

Blackberry not as fancy? BlackBerry took a ribbing? U must be in the company of idiots and apple juice drinking morons.

Delta Champion

Take that spec-challenged and over-priced iPhone! I bought my Z10 because it is a workhorse not a "my pretty pony."

Posted via CB10

Obviously you all are too dense fir me not to use the button...thought my lack of spacing and misspellings would give it away, lol.

I'm I the only one here wondering how the Z30 got best photography over the lumia?....

I mean after all, in the forums a lot says the lumia and 5s has superior quality compared?..

[URL="bbmc:C0001BBA7"]CLICK HERE[/URL] To Join My Music & Poetry Channel. Please&Thanks.

No, I am surprised. See post above.

And I'm not. Took a close-up of a little green tree frog sitting on a galvanised fence rail recently, the clarity is absolutely stunning. Just hold it still and let it focus.
That was on my Q10. Z30 will probably have further improvements.

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....

My guess would be the fact that it takes too long time to take a photo with the Lumia 1020, so you always tend to miss stuff "in the moment". It takes more than three seconds between each shot with the Lumia. This is why the iPhone 5s still is the top phones among camera phones (10 pictures per second by holding the "shutter" button).

But I was surprised by the Z30 having a lead. Does it have a different sensor and optics than Z10/Q10?

So, if she was "fully recharging it at least three times a day, I’d estimate (although I try to never let it dip below 50 percent).", does that mean she was on the charger 6 times? If she never let it get below 50%, then that would only be a half-charge.

Maybe she's a writer that is bad at expressing herself or am I bad at maths? Or both?

She did three half charges, "down to fifty and up to a hundred again". Fully charged means she hit 100%. She got scared when it drained to 50%, so she charged it up again. No full day use, 3x50=150%

Shows iPhone users' battery drain paranoia.

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....

I always knew that BB10 phones rocked, especially the Z30!! I was shocked that those guys admitted that Z30 won. It must have been tough on them. Lol!!!

We should ask Wired to do it again so that it's clearly the phone and not the blogger. Z30 will win the next time too...

It's only been a month since I swapped my z10 in for the z30 due to glitches (thank you Telus). Every time I am at home, I don't always feel the need to turn my computer on, my z30 feels just like a part of my computer system; no I haven't merged my files and what not wirelessly - but it's incredible when I see a recipe on Zeste tv or the Food network or anything to do with cooking or to look something up that I just saw advertised on tv, that my z30 is readily available like a computer. The time it takes to load and find something never keeps me waiting for results.

I love taking pictures, I have a Canon camera too. But in the middle of the morning when the snow is falling, I love to storm watch. The blackberry z30 isn't a Canon or Kodak camera.. it's there for moments just when I need it, and it takes absolutely brilliant photos. If I had to go on an expedition, I would take my z30 with me rather than a fully loaded camera. Sony can boast all it wants, but any owner of a BlackBerry z10 or z30 or any BB for that matter could probably tell stories with their photos' using a blackberry. There is a uniqueness to Blackberry that other people literally refuse to see because they are too caught up in the hype of mainstream candy like Apple. I have lost track of how many iphones there are, and the funny thing is, THEY ALL DO THE SAME THING O_O with Blackberry, people can complain that its technology hasn't advanced or that they are now catching up, yeah wonderful, that makes sense to me. By 2016 I would rather have Blackberry release a new mobile phone then as oppose to every 6-8 months confusing the heck out of its user-base.

I find anyone with a NEW iPhone simply tries to justify the differences with each new phone, but wait.. don't they all do the same stuff as the previous yet BlackBerry gets jumped on just because they aren't moving ahead either? sigh... The z30 is the best mobile computing device on the market right now, I'm surprised there isn't a BlackBerry z50 in the form of a BB Tablet. I literally just enjoyed 15 minutes of playing Real Racing 3 on my Bravia via HDMI from the z30. Can you do that with an iPhone?

Well, looking forward to whatever Blackberry brings out next... no let me correct myself, "does" next. If Blackberry were doing so horribly as many say, would there be a Crackberry site with so many people standing behind the company? If that weren't the case, the site might be called.. Crapple... O_o

This is really A Big Plus for BlackBerry 10 . This proves that it is the most productive operating system on the market today. This was a totally unbiased competition as the blackberry blogger inferred that he thought he had the less superior phone at the start of the contest.

Posted via CB10

Since I followed the whole thing being sick all week at home I have to put my two cents in. This win was as much a testament to Tim Moynahan's competitive blogging prowess as it was to how good the Z30's virtual keyboard is. Tim wasn't impressed with the camera. Something I think more refined camera software can cure. His annoyance with an old version of Tumblr sideloaded to the Z30 was apparent as well. Something we know 10.2.1 can cure. The thing is he used the Z30's pro to his advantage and won and that just feels good. Congrats to Tim!

Posted via CB10

I bet they won't make the same mistake next year... it will be ishit vs windows vs android... they will leave BlackBerry out to avoid such an embarrassment again!

Posted via CB10

2014 is already feeling different than last year in regards to the BlackBerry vibe I am feeling very positive vibes from them in all their recent interviews. Keep the vibe going and growing BlackBerry!! I like it.

Posted via CB10

I have repeatedly saying that BlackBerry Z30 is the one of the best smartphone out there! I have posted already in Twitter, blogs, comments and said "trust me! You are going to be amazed by BlackBerry Z30! , it is a very productive phone". In short
1) it has long battery life compared to iphone 5s as what I have tested. It lasted through out the day and I still have 23% remaining at about 8pm.
2) big and standard size screen 5' display! I think this is sufficient for all the smartphones... good enough.
3) paratek antenna!! It really performs as what I have expected! Clear voice call because of its good signal receving capabilities.. use less power thus enhancing battery life! I received better 3G 4G and 2G signal compare to my gf iphone 5 and friends iphone 5s.. this antenna must be implement too for low end phones in blackberry if they wanted to stand out of the crowd!
4) swipe gesture!! When it comes to multitasking, it really outperforms all the phones! I could easily swipe from top then to the left to peek and check for hub for any new chats, emails and also notifications! In iphones you need to double tap to navigate to other apps at the bottom menu. While in Z30 or BB10, you just have to swipe up and straight select your apps! BlackBerry should make this a patent to prohibit others from copying this kind of gesture! This also helps to eliminate the home button in iphones and also other phones and thus maximizing the screen area and also beautiful design! No buttons at all.. except fir those sound and power button. My favourite is when unlocking the Z30! I just need to swipe up from the bottom, and then it is unlock! No need to press any button at all!! Good and fantastic!
4) typing - the word prediction works perfectly! Just try it yourself in the Z30! I don have to tell you much! ^.^
5) responsive and snappy performance! Let's not comparing games app here. I wish to just compare the conpass function. When you open up the compass in BlackBerry Z30, you could use straight away! While in iphones some time you need to calibrare ... this is just lousy! The lux meter in BlackBerry gadget box is just fine and works perfectly! BlackBerry Z30 is a very productive phones! Obviously Samsung lose in every way...
6) the QNX feeling that BB10 brings to me... when you are navigating around and playing around with the Z30, you will find out that it is such a reliable device..

I have got more to tell...but it is enough to prove that Z30 is awesome now! believe me! Trust me!

Posted via CB10

Ah I forget one most important thing! Its "Natural Sound"! Just try it out yourself! It is just like beat audio! Best of the best! Long live BlackBerry Z30! BlackBerry Z30 prevails!

Posted via CB10

This news needs to be spread to other tech blogs like a virus, whether they like it or not!!! Spam the crap out of this hahaha
Can't wait to get my hands on the Z30 !!

It's amazing that after the Z30 blew away the competition by a wide margin, they wouldn't concede that they got blown away, and still berated the BB phone. Especially after that Itoy user had to recharge three times, and that goof with the cracked screen. Blackberry really has it's work cut out for them trying to convince people that it's the best phone right now.

Looks like we have to watch out for Windows Phone as a competitor, more than the other two.

I'd rather see Nokia/MS and BB (the former top dogs) on top again than, sorry, don't like badmouthing, Scamdroid, Scamsung, Scroogle and Scrapple. No offense, but malware is a problem.

The market is moving, hopefully away from a duopoly ecosystem. Choice rules and each to their own.

A good and a better product have always had a chance to fight and win.

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....

I've been with my Z30 for weeks now and can't believe this phone hasn't caught more attention than this. I actually tried a galaxy 4 And sent it back 2 days later. Cmon 10.2.1 and let's attack the apps issue and it's a wrap.

Posted via CB10

Ha ha! BlackBerry number 1, imagine that. Funny in the article they sent out to launch the challenge they were "aheming" the fact that one guy had to use a BlackBerry, like it just a notch over stone and chisel, no the Flintstone's did not use Blackberries. Just goes to show you that when you truley compare devices BlackBerry will always come out on top or close to it. Long live the king of all phones!!!!!!!

Posted Via Q10 Super Phone

This is the type of ad that Blackberry need. Damn now I just feel like going out and get myself a Z30!

Since BB10 is starting to be pretty much ironed out.... BB can just concentrate on improving it and get the phone out on events or head to heads like this

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

I am quite surprised that the Blackberry won the best photography award. It clearly demoished the competition in texting.

Disappointing that even with the wide winning margin there is nothing positive about the phone. All they were able to say is "despite using a BlackBerry" he still won... kinda lame!

Powered by BB

They are making it sounds like his was the under dog cause hour was using the z30 and he pull out the win but it was all him and not his z30.

Posted via CB10

The real win is that they thought enough of the Blackberry to include it in the first place! I wonder how it might have faired with the Q10?

Posted via CB10

That's fantastic! Outstanding. Hard to believe that Christina chick wasn't able to somehow rig the contest. (Sorry) She is such a huge I-person, and doesn't seem objective about other platforms.

Anyway, very cool. I hope BB finds a way to use this in their marketing.

Via CB10 & Z10 or Q10

Pages