BlackBerry Z10 returns are in line with that of other premium smartphones

By Adam Zeis on 11 Apr 2013 04:13 pm EDT

In the past few weeks we've heard plenty on the sales of the BlackBerry Z10 and how well it has been received thus far. BlackBerry 10 has launched on 60 carriers in over 40 countries and BlackBerry CEO Thorsten Heins has stated that sales are meeting original expectations across the board.

So needless to say we were a bit surprised today to see that there have been a few articles floating around claiming that return rates for the BlackBerry Z10 are "exceeding sales". Shenanigans.

We reached out to BlackBerry and they had this to say:

“BlackBerry wishes to respond to media coverage today regarding speculation that there have been abnormally high levels of returns of BlackBerry Z10 devices.  This is absolutely false.  Our data shows that return rates for BlackBerry Z10 devices both in the U.S. and on a global basis are in line with or better than our expectations and are consistent with return rates for other premium smartphones in the market today.”

So no need to worry - Z10 sales are still going very well, but of course you'll have some returns, just as with other devices -- but in no way are the returns surpassing the sales of new phones.  

Adam Zeis Adam Zeis "Mobile Nations Content Strategist" 3740 (articles) 2892 (forum posts)

Reader comments

BlackBerry Z10 returns are in line with that of other premium smartphones


What exactly is shameful? The cap reporting going around as of late? Or did you misunderstand the article?

Posted via CB10

I believe he's saying the false reporting is shamefull, not this article in particular. Don't be so quick to judge.

Your comment came off sounding extremely smug.

I read "shameful" and understood right away what the person was referring to. If they meant the article, they would have explained more.

Yeah, I meant that the false reporting (or at least misrepresentation) of the return 'data' and most other Blackberry-related performance data in general is shameful.

There is nothing shameful about 'returns being in line' with similar products. At the very least, it shows that the marketing is working well-enough to get prospective users to at least give it a try. This of course, contradicts some other 'reports' floating around saying that 70+% of 'polled responders' will not even consider trying a Blackberry device. But, who am I to 'analyze' things... I clearly can't even formulate an unambiguous two-word comment to a blog post.

Too many people have trouble understanding or reading the English language.

That is the reason for all this confusion.

It is called collusion!
All FALSE reports as usual to set the stage.
I still have all 4600 of my shares.
Too bad some people listen to idiots.
Never listen to analysts, they are always wrong.

Z10/BB10 = the BEST phone/OS combo on the market.
The company will do very well.

I am going to listen to this CEO who claimed that the Z10 is better than the iphone still in 7 weeks has sold less than Apple sells in a day.

Every one of my friends has switched from an iPhone to Z10 in the last 2 months. They have ALL all said the Z10 it is WAY better. Check back at the end of 2013 when word and mouth has set in. Bye bye iPhone.

No idea what the Z10 has sold thus far, but it's over two million shipments. So by your calculation, Apple sells more than two million iPhones a day, which amounts to 180 million a quarter and more than 720 million a year.

When did they make that announcement? :-)

Sales volume is not the same thing as whether something is better than something else, or the VW Beetle would be the best car in the world. (though in terms of present day sales for a design world wide, perhaps that would be the Hyundai i10 in its various guises.)
In fact the iPhone does some things a lot better than the Z10, and the Z10 does some things the iPhone does not do at all. As with whether you buy a family car or a truck, your definition of "better" will vary.

I was also thinking along those lines.
I think many false bad news stories out there are posted for the purpose of artificially dropping stock prices. stock goes down, you buy. Then the rumours are proved false and stock bounces back. You sell.
This strikes me as a sort of insider trading. Its not, but it achieves the same end.
I'm just thinking out loud though, I may be way off base.

Guys, it's the F*&in stock market, pure gambling and speculation. These ANAL-ysts live off and make money manipulating the masses to do quick sells and move the stock prices at their convenience.
Oh and by the way, what BGR actually did was a repost from AllThingsD... so TMZ,.. i mean iBGR has no creativity anymore.

Perhaps there is some truth to the "high rate of returns", though I believe that is exaggerated. If Verizon will get off their butts and deliver an upgrade to at least that would be nice. The version they went out with was released back in January. It is old. I can see some customers flipping out, but BlackBerry had before the U.S. launch. Verizon chose not to install it or provide the upgrade. Glad to see ATT doing just that with an even newer release.

Considering the fact that att did next to nothing to promote the sell of the z10 I'm surprised to see an update 3 weeks after release. I an pleased though because I an an att customer

Posted via CB10

Probably what caused the stock prices to drop quite a bit today... ah well, most people will believe anything you throw at them :)

The article I saw was in the WSJ quoting unsubstantiated "beliefs" by an analyst from Detweiler Fenton or Fenton Detweiler. Most of the comments to the article belittle it for lack of research and for the idiocy of saying return rate is higher than sold.

How can the return rate be higher than sold? What rubbish is this? Shame on those who listen to and follow these dimwits!

This is just a ploy to drop the stock price so that they and their buddies can buy in at a discount. It's ridiculous. That sort of stock manipulation should be investigated by the Feds.

Who knows how true this is. Clearly, you are the dimwit if you don't understand how returns could be greater than sales. Think before you speak please!

Not saying this is true...but it makes total sense e.g. if 12 z10's were sold but 7 were returned that would mean only 5 were actually sold. Returns would be greater than sales.

A returned device is not classified as a sale; only devices that people keep beyond the allowed return period are sales for the analysts' purpose of discussion.

Thanks for that, mkmilan. Some people don't seem to understand that sales goes on the books as sales, even if the product is returned. There cannot be a "return" unless there is a sale. Some people liberally throw insults because they choose not to try to understand the point of view of others. I'm referring to Migs1601's message above.

You sir are a hypocrite! You stated "Shame on those who listen to and follow these dimwits!" Are these so called "dimwits" now allowed to give their point of view? Also, don't be so quick to pass judgement on me. Yes you need a sale in order to have a return, so we agree there. However, you need to look at things in context. Of course you couldn't sell 100 units and have 102 returned but that is not what these "dimwits" meant. I hope you don't run a business. You put 150 units sold in your "book" with 100 returns. I'll put only 100 units sold in my "book" with 0 returns and walk my @$$ to the bank.

Keep up the insults! Those who make up false claims I referred to as dimwits. I did not personally attack you or your comments in any way. I was pointing to your unwarranted attack. That was all.

... well, in theory it works just like the "naked short" of the stock:

By law, "to go short a stock, you must first borrow the shares from another owner to sell them on the market while promising to re-purchase the stock for return to its rightful owner at a future date - hopefully at a lower price."

When the shares actually go up in value on the market, those short sellers become losers, because they must now repurchase those previously borrowed-and-sold shares at a higher price than they received upon their sale.

Now, to be "naked short" a stock, you sell shares of the stock that you neither own, nor have borrowed from someone else." The "market" now expects a covering of those # of shares back to the market/broker who never received the shares upon sale in the first place.

THAT's how a company's "long" (held) and short-positions in shares can - theoretically - exceed the total of its entire float on the exchange ... except that it's illegal.

With these Z10 returns, it appears much the same way: "MAYBE" there are consumers short-selling borrowed Z10s back to stores who are promising to return those units to their owners at a future date.
Putting the proverbial crack-pipe down now, let's all recognize that "no it ain't" ... those returns numbers are just pure BS.

BUT, make no mistake, that HUGE - and recently significantly rising!!! (source: - number of shorted shares (of 524.2M total outstading shares) IS what's driving these bogous FUD stories.

Not only to keep BBRY's competitors from getting hit too hard in stores, but also to protect the nearly 160Million short-sellers.

I thought we were talking about people returning Z10s faster than Z10 sales...

You're talking about sale of shares and shorting. Even so, I get what you're saying, but these short sellers are taking a risk, just like me and other investors in BBRY. The investment houses are protecting their short sellers... how? By cheating the system. In other words, the investment rules for you and I are different than those "on the inside" of those investment houses. Why should they be playing by a different set of rules to protect their money and their friends?

you read me like an open book, bbfanboi; and sure, all's fair in taking risks ... on a level playing field. Except THIS field ain't level: it's plumb.

FIRST, check the NASDAQ link to short-seller-interest, and then watch this:

The point is that there is a LOT - and I mean F R I C K I N ' H U G E - interest in seeing the stock price go down.

There's ALSO three HUGE competitors throwing everything they can muster PLUS the kitchen sink at the wall to neutralize the threat from BBRY ...

BUT NONE of them MUST EVER be "seen" to be doing that or heard saying anything.

Solution: LOTS of FUD stories, comments and "analyst stories" about everything under the sun.

The problem is NO-ONE has to prove a single thing; off-the-cuff remarks are taken as gospel, and some putz from an analyst-firm you've never heard of (like it matters!) is able to create a 7% hit on the stock. Worst-case, s/he comes out in 6 months and says "well, in hindsight it seems the 6 stores I channel-checked were atypical of the reality in the other stores at the time; honest mistake, sorry."

Yet, on the flipside, BBRY has to back up with facts and prove everything, and even that's questioned 100x.

Problem is that consumers look at & listen to this sh#t and go "well, if there are so many returns, it must be a POS, so maybe I won't even bother."
And, even when it IS proven to wrong later-on, those people have already made-up their minds that BBRY isn't good enough and have committed to something else.

Thorsten's (OK fine: "the comany's) silence in all these areas is disturbing at-best and downright scary at worst.

Thanks for sharing. That guy to so FRICKIN' crooked, but so many of these guys are all about the money. It's not about just getting rich, it's playing the dirty game to win. High stakes Monopoly. He didn't seem the least bit concerned about spending $20M to impact "RIM's" share price. It's not about adding value just raping the system, and other small investors like me.

I'd pull out my BBRY investment, but it will only serve to make these folks win. I have faith that BBRY will succeed despite the odds. The tide will turn, but these crooks will still make their chunk of money before getting out of their short positions.

So great that BBRY has no debt. Rapists like these guys can't send hounds after them.

You're right in saying Thorsten has to answer these ridiculous claims and statements that are just wrong! The BlackBerry name must remain strong and respected. Thanks again, I learned a lot from you today :)

Yeah, the firm is Detwiler Fenton & Co., & the author is Jeff Johnson. He's the reincarnation of Vic Alboini from Northern Securities, which suffered a steady decline into penny-stock status and then went belly up. Detwiler Fenton is based in Boston, with a share price of 13.5 cents and a market cap of $350,000. Twenty years ago, just after the company was listed on the stock market, the sp was $48.50. If you bought 1000 shares in this company 20 years ago, your $48,500 equity would now be worth $135. Basically, I suspect Detwiler Fenton was asked to offer fraudulently misleading information by colleagues who can't afford to be sued. It wouldn't really be worthwhile for BB to sue DF because all they'd end up with is a small fistful of dollars.

This is excellent analysis and deserves wider circulation. I too suspected an astroturf going on here, but I didn't realise that the astroturfer was worth less than I have in my savings account!

It's insane how quickly reporters jump to catch the "big news". If only they did some honest reporting. Unfortunatly all reporters are doing today is trying to gain readers by writting the "big" often false news. It's pretty much the exact plot of HBO's The Newsroom.

This is why I only believe news written by Alan Sorkin, delivered by Jeff Daniels, and seen on a paid premium cable network.

I loves me some Newsroom.

what blackberry needs to do is release that awesome pre-superbowl ad. Start playing that in movie theatres. It's the perfect ad to play before a movie. That ad blew me away, and it informs the public that this is a new blackberry, introducing them to the fact that it's built on QNX the same software that is used by NASA. I mean common, if that doesn't generate hype I don't know what will.

Can someone find me that link? I"m at work and youtube is blocked.

Thanks for that reminder how awesome BlackBerry, the company, is. I've seen this before, but it was good to watch it again.

I absolutely agree. The American consumer needs to see this, and in a movie theatre with incredible sound with a 100% captive audience it would be amazing. 3D would be awesome.
This entire fiasco has become truly emotional -- you can really see it everywhere now in these threads, in comments on articles anywhere online, and on the street. It's crazy. Every intelligent, objective person I know sees why the Z10 is phenomenal. So now it's just a matter of influencing everyone else. Maybe the slogan should be, "BlackBerry 10: your bridge to the 1%."

Just another paid short analyst with no self respect for his profession. Just out to scam people of of their shares.

Posted via CB10

Just playing devil's advocate, has blackberry released any sell-through numbers? Shipments alone don't count. And what about return rates. I've seen no hard numbers. These figures would go a long way to stopping this kind of thing.

For Q4, shipments were 6 million handsets in total (5m BB7 & 1m Z10), with sell-through of 6.9 million. The mismatch in the numbers comes largely from the fact that BB sold through a lot of BB7s stacked up in inventory. Specifically, for the Z10, Heins said the sell-through was somewhere between 66% and 75%. All in all, these are very good numbers.

Well in all fairness Blackberry would say that, wouldn't be a good business move if they turned around and went "oh yeah that's true, oops". Although many press coverage of Z10 returns as well as decline in the PC industry all have been exaggerated, it's what the press does for the headlines.

They said the news was fake - if it was anywhere close to the reality they could be sued by stock holders.

The opposite is true. For publishing false claims like this Detweiler-Fenton and Pac Crest should be sued to oblivion by BlackBerry. That would shut down the big boy hedgie Shorts /bought marginal analysts from lousy small marginal investment houses/ and competitors willing to pay for a negative headline (Microsoft) circle jerk that seems to be the source of these "Shenanigans". These are the only direct beneficiaries. Follow the money.

From my sweet BB10 Neutrino powered Z10 :D

Suing is a waste of time because in the US it is a defense against libel that you believed something to be true. That's why this kind of market manipulation is even legal. And if the plaintiff is limited liability and has few assets, you won't get your costs back.
Edit -looks like an SEC case. Way to go.

I am not a conspiracy minded person but I swear the Wall Street bears who are short BBRY will do anything to make the company and the Z10 /Q10 fail.


Posted via CB10

Here is the problem:
Until BlackBerry starts paying off the "Right people " these stock manipulators will continue to bash BlackBerry.
This is a dog eat dog world..
You need to start bribing these media suckers..

Also this is the same problem for AT&T Verizon and tmobile. BlackBerry is not gonna be no advertising or nice posters without paying these people off.

So sad but true...

Posted via CB10

Of course there was false reporting. Sad. Good to hear that BlackBerry cleared it up.

Posted via Crackberry Z10

Unfortunately the vast majority of Americans reading and seeing this report will never hear or see blackberry's response because that will not make the media.

Posted via CB10

To his credit Tiernan Ray at Barrons included the refutation in his headline and body of his article. He even puts "" around "Checks" implying his own doubts as to the quality of those "Checks"being touted as evidence by these two marginal analysts.
Manipulation and misrepresentation of facts 1 oh 1. All technically true of a man with two girls: "It is unclear, since the paternity tests have not yet shown, that two girls he claims are his daughters are actually his. It is unclear whether these tests will prove to be positive in the future, therefore it is uncertain if his wife will continue support him." You can say whatever you want to make up crap about people and companies. These guys may have crossed the line though by making the claims they made today though.

From my sweet BB10 Neutrino powered Z10 :D

why BB does not release sell through numbers?? they always withhold such info so whatever the CEO says, it is bogus.. unless he shows us numbers like Apple and Samsung do

Blackberry management needs to come out loud and clear on these kind of rumours. This kind of news can have a very bad impact on prospective buyers of Z10. If currently I was in the market to buy smartphone, I will have to really think hard and clear before buying Z10. This is probably manipulation of stock by wall street but repercussions of this type of bad news are much deeper for Blackberry at this stage. Management needs to be bit stronger here in quelling these rumours and bad publicity, just like what Elon Musk did with bad review of Tesla model S. That reviewer will think twice before writing anything bad about Tesla again.

I emailed BlackBerry investors relations at 10:30am to ask them to refute the claim by Detweiler, it took them almost 6 hours to come out with their release. They have to do a better job they are fighting a dirty war against the technology media and analysts and have been brutal, wake the Fu_k up BlackBerry!

Too many bears pushing half baked newest stories misinformation and outright lies to try and push the stock down. Nothing new....they seriously need to do better fact checking. Asking a few random kiosks as your sample size doesn't count as indepth research.

CB10- BlackBerry Z10

I wish we knew what sales that "are in line with company expectations" actually means.

Wouldn't you think the company would have pretty LOW expectations given the current climate around BB? Perhaps taken out of context, or perhaps a para-phrased quote from you Kevin, but I just cannot think that BB had these huge numbers in their head.

In either case, I think sales will be weak here in the US (at least initially). After all the "bragging" Blackberry did about UK sales, sales in Canada, and India, they are dead silent about US sales. Things that make you go hmmmm.

I use exchange shops to judge as well as people do sell phones they don't like for a quick cash boost.
My local CEX store has only had 3 z10's sold to them. That is a pretty good rate so I'm less inclined to believe the reports.
People who have the z10 appear to be happy with it

Posted via CB10

Because the stock market is completely disconnected from the real world. Note the "economic down turn" since 2007.

There's nothing special about a blackberry any more I think it's because all phone's have direct push email . I have to new Z10 blackberry and truly want my iphone back. All blackberry have is BBM and that's not even top dog any more either

Posted via CB10

thats fine, then return it. Yes the phone looks like an iPhone or any touchscreen phone for that matter. And it does what any other phone can do, only differently and in what some would consider a more efficient manner. There are some apps missing but for most blackberry users thats not an issue.The os and overall experience when using the blackberry is what this new generation of bb10 phones is about I"m not one to have apps on my phone, I use it to communicate and browse the web while bored. I have an xbox and a playbook for my gaming needs. I'm actually debating returning to the Q10 for the sole reason that I miss my keyboard and feel a phone with a keyboard for me at least is more suiting.

If you aren't satisfied then feel free to return it but I would argue that BBM is still the 'top dog', it's the best form of communication for me.

Let the shorts get out.. create some stability and health. I'm always down for a good deal! Patience will win this one. BlackBerry sure deserves some credit for it's innovation. They have taken many risks along their journey. Some have not paid off.. BB10 may just be the golden nugget the company and consumers have been waiting for. I would like to share that the Z10 is the most impressive device I have put my hands on. User opinion of course.. give it some time and the honest word of the consumer will get out and this great innovative device will do great against it's competition.

Z10 was the best selling phone in Qatar when it came out, fact.

Thats good news at least. In all honesty I'd love to get on the 'BlackBerry gonna take over the world BlackBerry is back!!' bandwagon... BlackBerry's aim was to get back in the market and get their position back in the game, not to be number one..

And they've done that, with flying colours. :)

Posted via CB10

Thorsten should have come out way earlier on this today....stock got HAMMERED all day long on this news and only started to recover 15 min before close. Drop the Hammer Thor...investors are losing patience when you sit idle and let these lies spread unchallenged.

That's not how Thor should be spending his time, but they may need to hire a pit bull in the media relations dept to give them some teeth. AT I technologies used to be really good at that. A press release every other day to keep the media fed with your story not theirs.

From my sweet BB10 Neutrino powered Z10 :D

My thoughts exactly, I couldn't agree more. Along with the media Pit bull, they could also do with a spin doctor.

This might annoy most of you but a Lotta people I know are returning because of the lack of the major apps. People were excited to check out the new os but it wasn't too late before the reality hit them in their faces lol

Ps I love my z10 I don't care much about the apps so ill be a keeper. BlackBerry at least need a year to catch up with the current eco system

Posted via CB10

ask the same Hard data to BB because they have not released any...they always say shipped.. how about they tell us how many of those shipped were sold?

Why dont we hear about returns of other phones in the media?
And of course BB are going deny it. Next 12 months will decide BBs future. Will lower priced phones help their cause? Watch this space

What do you mean by "and of course BB are going to deny it?" If it was true, they would have just said "we don't comment on rumors." They cannot come out and say it's not true unless it's the case or they can get sued by shareholders for lying.

A little too late Blackberry, stock is down 8%. Damage already done.

CEO and PR should be more proactive like Elon Musk of Tesla Motors who keeps fighting back against any distortion of their company. Now TSLA stock is all time high. This new German CEO needs to understand that unlike regulated markets in Europe, Wall ST is wild wild west and cheat, lie and plain old robbery is anyones game.

Not sure what you know about Tesla.... But I will tell you (as a supplier) half decent product but lots of smoke and mirrors...

Sorry if this is already asked but if 100 is sold how could 120 be returned? Wouldn't this mean that BlackBerry has magic overflow?

Posted via CB10

What this would mean is that :

You sell 10 phones per day since he launch but now you still have 10 sells per day but the returns are at 15 per day.
That would mean that early buyers are returning there z10 at a faster rate than they can cell z10s...its totally false and unverified...anw, just as to clarify the signification of this as many are thinking that it means : 10 phones sold in total but 15 phones returned in total...witch is not mathematically possible of course.

Posted via CB10

It means x number have been sold so far, and now more of those are being returned than the number currently selling on a daily/weekly basis. Not that it's true, but that's what they're saying.

This stuff is only in America it seems. I can't believe it and it looks like if you read some articles and reviews they all have the same crap which is not even true. It's for sure that they make things up and they get all the same information. This stinks and ofcourse you can spend you money on advertsing or just to use money to make a company look bad. Its a hard market and the war is fought on different fronts.

O Waww this is the comercial that should be theaters you are right about it,

Also, why wasn't this comercial aired????

BlackBerry Z10

from what I've been told the commercial isn't an official blackberry commercial. Some outside company created it? Anyone care to comfirm or deny this. Talkng about the commercial posted above.

How many people got the z10 with the idea of trying ,it returning it, then getting the Q10? I was thinking about doing that.

Posted via CB10

Thanks for the article...i personally checked 5-6 stores with different carriers..None of them reported any returns and users were happy..These small time analysts need some rumor to be popular...but they are going to look very stupid when the truth comes out.

Posted via CB10

The fix is in... This came from the WSJ. BlackBerry has clearly become the new bump and dump stock. The media bias is just unbelievable. How is it that a product so well reviewed, so well received by consumers, can be receiving THIS much bad press. It erks me whenever I read such nonsense

let's all buy about 40 shares to keep the stock stable^^ (all= 100.000+ time 40 = 4.000.000 shares)

There is no possible way to compete against institutions in the stock market. 4M shares on an average volume of 67M is just noise. You would need to create demand for about 400M shares to move the stock. That's 60 billion dollars at the current price...

Stop with the spin... is Crackberry the PR team for the company?

It seems like every negative news article/research issued that puts the company in a negative light, one of the writers here takes it upon themselves to spin the story? This is Crackberry, we don’t believe this stuff and don’t need someone to hold our hands through negative information.

As for the higher rates of return... what are they defining as “premium smart phones”? Also, if they are comparing Z10 to iPhone/Galaxy S whatever, then it’s a misleading statement.

The statement would however be true if compared to say Sony, ZTE, etc etc.

To put all this to an end is to report actual sales at some clip to shut people up.

No you shut up.

What they said made absolute sense at face value.

If you have followed what BlackBerry is saying lately, they are under selling the company (no not the phone) .

So if they say it is coming under industry standards for a premium phone (we all know approximately what that means) and better than expectations, which would of course be close to industry standards, is exactly what they mean and the truth

All else is lies or uniformed speculation.

Posted via CB10

So what you understood from the thorsten release was "We need as much (number) returns as I phones and gs3 has.."

What you should understand if you read it again is "We have the same return rate as iphone and sg3. (RATE) its a pourcentage of sold phones / returned phones....clear enough?

Ps : please adam don't listen to this guy who could even understand this simple think :keep the good articles on the stock coming :)

Posted via CB10

I don't play the stock market.

Whenever I have bought anything that I considered big ticket (consoles, computers, appliances, etc) I have never bothered to check what the maker's stock performance was.

If BlackBerry ends up being the smartphone of choice in everywhere but the US, that won't bug me none.

Sent from my iPuh-lease-as-IF

2 of my friends returned their z10 solely because there were no whatsapp n instagram...hopefully their attitude changes now that we have whatsapp n the beloved q10 keyboard is coming out. Bbm way better anyway

Posted via CB10

People who do return it have left evidence of barely using it. They didn't even try. Others have been too picky. I think returns are still relatively low.

Posted via CB10

This is the problem with anything new and slightly different. It used to be that in the US, if you gave someone a new piece of technology, they would get on top of it faster than anyone else in the world. I really used to enjoy going to the US in the 80s because our customers were such enthusiastic adopters - you'd arrive on site and they would already have read the manual and got everything ready; go to almost anywhere else and it would be start from square 1.
At some point this changed, and now it's Asians who are excited by anything new and Americans whose attitude seems to be "oh, I need to do a little work to understand this. I'll go back to what I'm used to."

Let's remember that ALL of these "so-called" news(???)-reports are:
1) unsubstantiated ("we called a dozen stores" = "right, sure you did: WHO?!"),
2) possibly designed to achieve strategically hidden and nefarious objectives (i.e. to keep consumers from buying or accepting it) and
3) potential share-price-drivers (to protect all the stock's short-sellers)

ALL of this negative "news-flashing" of-late is SO perfectly in-line with Jim Cramer's hedge-fund stock-buying & short-selling strategy ( that ALSO fits Apple's and Google's (and MSFT's) corporate strategies of scaring consumers away with FUD about BB10, Z10 and everything BlackBerry.

What's sad is that :
1) the financial media are swallowing the "news" without questioning its truthfulness and accuracy,
2) consumers are so gullible to take someone else's singular "negative" comment as gospel without giving ANY credence to dozens of "positive ones," and
3) BlackBerry isn't more proactive with great Product-TRAINING, Advertising, Marketing and PR - especially to counteract this manufactured launch-disaster.

One commentator has already speculated that "the damage may already be done to the Brand and Product, regardless of whether any of these turn out later to be true or false," ... so let's hope that's false too and that there's still, both, time and hope.

What's curious is that EVERYONE demanded BlackBerry do something "radically different" and now that they have, THAT si what's being used as the major reason for supposedly large #s of product returns.
It REALLY makes one wonder ...

Curious what the percentages are. I mean sales are humble of course but do they mean percentage returned against sales or simply the actual number of devices returned that is consistent. I wish the best of luck to BB, I hope they can find enough people to love their products, I'd rather not see them go.

Lumia 900. ex 3 generation Curve user.

Marketing issue from BBRY. They need to stop this bleeding from survey thing to return vs sales of the z10.

Spending a little bit more on tv ads and Internet will make this ignorant people smart again using the Z10.

Posted via CB10

It just seems really strange to me how just yesterday, I was reading in this very forum, post suggesting and asking people if they where worried about Z10 returns. Then these reports hit the news.

It's not possible that returns exceed sales. You can't return more than was purchased!

Common sense if there's a lot of return then nobody here in CB will going to comment in every forums or issue that we encounter with Z10 everyday.

Posted via CB10

What else did we really expect from the media? For them to say BlackBerry is the best after bashing for 5 years?

I'm glad to see BlackBerry stand up for themselves!

BBX-I Said it!

On the returns front...

If you followed any of the forum threads about reboots or poor battery... the consensus was almost always, return and get another one.

If you bought a new device and the battery doesn’t last a full day until it’s “seasoned” (or waiting for an upgrade) why would you keep it and hold onto faith especially when carriers set a return period?

If you don’t follow Crackberry and the person who sold it to you has no idea how it works then why wouldn’t you return it and go with something else or wait until things improve?

If returns are high, then I think those would be the reason. BBRY needs to advertise real features on the phone, stat.

As BlackBerry pointed out: "Returns are NOT high. Returns are nominal, and comparable to return rates of any high end phone. Clear?

From my sweet BB10 Neutrino powered Z10 :D

Would you really expect Blackberry to issue a statement acknowledging an issue?. That is a standard PR reply 'in line with or better than our expectations' without actually indicating what the expectations are it is hard to measure if a problem exists, if they expected a 50% return rate and the rate is 48% that statement is true.
A quick search on this site has all kinds of testimonials from people on high unexplained data usage on the Z10

I would expect them to tell the truth. As a previous poster pointed out, IF it was true, THEN the company would most likely have no commented. SINCE they made a positive statement saying returns ARE NOT high, THEREFORE, legally, this must be the case, or they would not, could not have said it. That may be why it took 6 hours for them to come out with the statement. They had to make sure that they got their facts right.

From my sweet BB10 Neutrino powered Z10 :D

Agree! Stock manipulation by so called analyst and media. I think Feds and BBRY needs to be more aggressive with this issue that we heard and read this past few days.

Posted via CB10

This is simply just another case of market manipulation for the short sellers. This happens everyday with different stocks through market manipulation using the media. This happend last month to Blackberry when a no-name anylst said that only 300,000 BB10 phones had been sold in the first quarter according to his checks which were obviously BS. The next day a larger number of shorts decided to "cover" their positions and make a profit from the lowered stock price. This practice of manipulating the market is suposed to be illegal, but happens everyday! With nearly 30% of BBRY stocks in a short position, it will continue to happen until either a positive Q2 report indicates Blackberry has become profitable and that phones are selling well, or it all comes apart and the company fails.

The thing is product is bad then why no reports of returns from other countries and users. The manipulation at the lowest level, the fact is shorts are desperate

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Although i knew it was another bs I'm always happy to see that Adam is here to get some REAL reports to refute the nosayers.
This bumpy rides need to stop, I literally stop reading this articles because it always appear to be misleading. Since when have you heard about a bad bbry news on that level that was verified and appeared to be true? I can't even remember, i think last one was september went they announced that the z10 would be delayed until January....
As a shareholder i have to stay informed in case a real bad news come out and i have to leave the stock but it's getting more and more difficult to get real influence with this sea of bs that people through out every day. Wsj and sk is in my Black list of bs, mean iBGR? well I'm kinda running out of options...anyone suggest a real stock market website with verified infos only?

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At least they're not letting high-profile rumours go unchallenged. Another good aspect of the "new" BlackBerry I hope other shareholders appreciate as much as I do.

Lets do some math here... its very simple I promise.

If Johnny Moron sold 10 apples from his fruit stand to 10 different people and 12 people returned those apples, how many apples does Johnny have now? The correct answer is 2 more apples than he freaking started with! The next question would be.... where the hell did those 2 extra apples come from!? How can you possibly take MORE returns than new sales..!?

Oh lord...if Johnny Moron sold 10 apples from his fruit stand and 6 were returned, he would have only sold 4 apples. Returns would be more than sales :)

Have you ever said something.... and then immediately wanted to take it back?

yup. that just happened. haha nobody said you ever had to be smart to love BlackBerry! :p

Unfortunately this is what they do. Create a doom and gloom headline to make it to the top of the search pages. Seems to work every time. You think people would catch on to this? It's just part of being the best phone out there I guess?

Posted via CB10

Great point. I doubt that average Joe American is tuned in to watch his stock portfolio and make investment decisions based on the latest news feeds. Unfortunately, these hi-profile doomsday headlines saturate the likes of Fox News and CNN that Joe probably watches at least 6 hours a day. They don't understand how different BB10 is, so the news simply reaffirms their belief that a BlackBerry is still the Curve 8300 that one of their buddies had before where the web browser didn't even work. But this is exactly why BB needs the emotional advertising campaign to emphasize that BB10 pretty much has nothing to do with the old BB. BB's best move probably would have been to completely remove the name "BlackBerry" from the company and the phone (as sad as it is to say that).

Hi to you all i have returned my z10 three times this is the fourth one and i am happy with it and loving it it is known three weeks and all OK and happy with the z10 thanks Milan

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Unfortunately, this is what they do. Write a big doom and gloom article so it makes it to the top of the search pages. Strange how people don't catch on to this stuff? I guess this is what happens when you have the best product out there. Oh well.

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I'm still holding my position in bbry and I'm keeping my z10...i plan on buying more stock after the short sellers (sob's) run the price down ...they had to make up a story to cover the put call tomorrow...long bbry


The problem with "BBRY" is they are not playing by the rules. The historical record shows the vast majority of tech companies grow huge, plateau, then then get bought up by a competitor or simply disappear in bankruptcy. Financial media cannot deal with things that don't follow the rules. BBRY will get bought out. Wrong. BB10 will never get released. Wrong. BBRY will go broke. Wrong. BBRY will not have enough money to market BB10. Wrong. People won't like BB10. Wrong. BB10 is too hard to use. Wrong. BB10; whatever the financial media says is wrong. Why are soooooo many people concerned about the phone I choose? What exactly are they afraid might happen to me if i use a BBRY phone? Apple and Samsung phones are extremely popular. So is KFC and I never eat there.

Shame on those people who took advantage of return policy, and returned the phone not for a quality issue. They have no respect to technology, no respect to a legend company, no respect to someone else's money, no respect to nothing, but his/her own pathetic life. I have no respect to those people. Sigh.

.OMG !
There is 1 person to blame for why this happened! THOR ! Why?
1) He should FIRE the person who is in charge of investor relations for not squashing rumors like this much sooner. The worker who is in charge of investor relations is PATHETIC ! FIRE THEIR AS* IMMEDIATELY !!!! RIGHT NOW !!!!

2) Thor should show people and investors that he has confidence in BlackBerry and purchase 1 Million shares as a buy back EVERY SINGLE MONTH. !! <------------------Read this THOR !

3) Thor is too silent in what is going on in the company.

Does everyone agree?
.UPDATE : Senior Manager of Public Relations for BlackBerry is Patti McKague,

Part of me thinks it's classy that BB doesn't respond. However, I think we need to hear a BIT more from them...

As if any reasonable person didn't know this already. The shorts will stop at nothing. Just another day of the morons making noise and C rack berry being like... no.

Posted via CB10

Hi I love my BlackBerry z10 i will never change it all though it is my fourth one love it milan Xxxx

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As a stock watcher, I can't help but feel that there is a quiet conspiracy by some key players in the market who will keep dredging up whatever rumour and innuendo they can to keep the BlackBerry stock churning up and down just so they can profit from it. No matter how good the current news is on the BlackBerry front, these flakes just call up some flack and create a new bad image story to effectively counter the positive news.
I'm sure in the end the Z10 and Q10 will secure a solid user base who appreciate the quality and sophisticated design of these devices.

Posted via CB10

I work for a Canadian carrier, SaskTel. We are a small business in a small city. Haven't had any returns what so ever of Z10. Only sold a couple dozen total so only local numbers. Our IPhone sales are way down as well. Nothing special about an I5 over a 4S. At least not $100 worth in price difference. We do get returns on IPhones and the sucky thing is you can't reset the warranty on an IPhone once it has been activated on ITunes. Draw back in my opinion.

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Ewww, that's a relief. I'm currently trying to keep up with the BBRY and AAPL stock markets and heard about this today and just had to check with CrackBerry.

Posted via CB10

Awesome, but note that we're rather passionate about BB here... Long term investing should be done on fundamentals that usually prevail. Crackberry is the balance to the ridiculous pessimism of BBRY that is flowing in the media. The fundamentals are in the middle somewhere, but no one really knows where. Whether you're short or long in BB stock, playing this stock is much more gambling than it is investing. I'm long BBRY, but particularly frustrated after today.

.OMG !
There is 1 person to blame for why this happened! THOR ! Why?
1) He should FIRE the person who is in charge of investor relations for not squashing rumors like this much sooner. The worker who is in charge of investor relations is PATHETIC ! FIRE THEIR AS* IMMEDIATELY !!!! RIGHT NOW !!!!

2) Thor should show people and investors that he has confidence in BlackBerry and purchase 1 Million shares as a buy back EVERY SINGLE MONTH. !! <------------------Read this THOR !

3) Thor is too silent in what is going on in the company.

Does everyone agree?
.UPDATE : Senior Manager of Public Relations for BlackBerry is Patti McKague,

BlackBerry doesn't have any advertising presence. The super bowl commercial was a joke. If you blinked you missed it. "We don't have enough time to tell you what it can do, so here is any and everything it can't" STUPID!!!! Who the hell approved it and said yeah run that one? You paid 3 million for advertising agency to make a commercial that didn't advertise $#¡+ dumb dumb dumb. And you wonder why people cringe at the name haven't disassociated the former brand from the new product. PSA....Good PSA....Great PSA is necessary. No one knows or cares what BB10 can do outside of the current BB subscribers. ..smh

Posted via CB10

There are powerful interests out there that will do/say anything just to keep their investments from bottoming out. Sad. BlackBerry 10 is here and so good that it's making the shorts oh so scared. My money's on most of the baseless negative bile to be done with over the next month or two...right on time with the shorter realization that AAPL will never hit 700 again. word!

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Haha! Threatened to return mine unless they gave me a better data plan deal, but I still returned home with my Z. They and 20 others couldn't pry it out of my hands! I didn't get a better deal because I was unable to negotiate the Z away :P

This is more manipulation to help the shorts of the BlackBerry stock. When are they going to stop with nonsense bashing articles. Thank goodness we have sites like CrackBerry and such to spread the truth and stop the Black bashing.

BlackBerry needs a serious marketing push from ALL carriers selling the Z10 and soon to be Q10. All you see when you go to at&t and Verizon is iPhone 5 posters. Early upgraded at at&t are for iPhone only. Apple products are being pushed harder than ANY other phone on the market, so is it any wonder why it's selling at stupid amounts? BlackBerry also needs to let developers develop their own apps . Facebook and Twitter, anyone? No one wants a second rate app that works only half asked. Look at windows phone. Their Facebook app Sucks a balls. The blackberry one at least looks and feels like the real deal, but BlackBerry wants total control over it. No one wants a second rate app. I switched from iPhone 5 to the Z10 and am loving it. I just want better and more apps. Made by the developers that they're supposed to be made by.

Posted via CB10

Pardon my Ongley but,

if 80% of Americans do not know bb10 exists then,
How can 60% say that they will never buy new blackberry? I thought one has to know about something first before one can say yeh or neh.

( my favorite Movie Dumb & Dumber)

America, land of oppurtunity.

It's not that they don't know about BlackBerry, it's just that "BlackBerry" in their minds is the old email device that couldn't surf the web and always crashed. It's simply an assumption that "the new BlackBerry" must be just like the "old BlackBerry."

I other related news, chicken-little was hospitalized this morning as he walked down the street stepped and slipped on an iPhone and hit his head on a passerby's android. More at 11.

CB10 via Z10

How would the analyst know how many blackberry Z10 phones are returned! Do they have access to the inventory system! Statistically, they could not get enough sample data to validate their claims through sampling or polling about the Z 10 phone returns because they would have to contact a lot of stores for the information, which would most likely not disclose due to confidentiality reasons. Blackberry would probably not be at liberty to release this sort of data until an earnings call. These articles about the returns of the Z 10 phones are completely asinine. The authors publishing this trash should be banned from writing because they have no integrity - their articles lack credibility and ethics. This sort of crap must stop because it hurts businesses and competition. Everybody needs to start writing complaints to the companies that hire these types of analysts to let them know how you deplore their unethical articles.

You have to remember there are an incredible amount of shares owned by short sellers that have to have the stock go down so they don't lose their shirts they will spread any kind of garbage.

Posted via CB10

The USA has so many serious social, economic, political and systemic issues at this stage of their existence. Not saying other G8 countries are perfect at all but the USA is a beast all unto itself. Everything is extreme and polarized.

Posted via CB10

Here is what some one wrote in an seeking alpha article. I am looking at the #3 reason and that is hugh.

1. The Launch of the eagerly anticipated Q10 for which demand appears to be significantly higher than the Z10.
2. The BES10 Server Launch in May that will drive enterprise sales as many enterprises need to hold back for this
3. Technically, May 22nd last year saw a massive recall of loan stock from institutional investors needing to VOTE on the AGM. You cannot be "Shareholder of Record" if your stock is loaned out…Expect a stock recall prior to this.
4. Expect an early June upside earnings statement due to Q10.

No one has mentioned the high ratings on the U.S Carrier websites about the Z10. If it was that bad on returns, you would definitely here it in the comments. I agree the PR at BlackBerry need to be faster. In the land of opportunity, perception becomes reality very fast.

Posted via CB10

I'm sure the media is blowing this out of proportion; anything to make a story. However, I do know this: they would have had one less Z10 returned if BlackBerry had a fix for the reboots and Verizon would release updates on time... I loved my Z10, but the reboot issue and uneasiness of future support eventually led me to return it. Maybe once they get things straightened out I'll buy another, who knows.

Not the media but the investment brokers. Most media is like flies - they buzz around carcasses. After watching this vid, (thanks to bpmg4u), I'm starting to believe that many investment brokers are like maggots. They're eating you while you're alive, but even when you are dead, they're sucking you dry.

Really wonder how well the Q will do in re-establishing the BlackBerry faithful. Seriously, many have moved to other platforms, and the Q is coming just ahead of a Samsung superphone. Certainly the Q will help to strongly establish the BB10 platform along with the Z10, but just how many 9900 users will switch over to the Q? Will the Q really be able to bring back customers who have moved to full touch devices? That's the big Question! :)

Q10 is for existing subscribers who have stayed with BB for the physical keyboard. Z10 is for bringing back those who have left BB for other competitors' touch screen phones, and to bring in new users from other platforms. That's why Thors said he would expect Z10 to outsell Q10 by 3:1 (eventually).

Superphones, as you call them, are mainly a US phenomenon. As tablets get lighter and more capable, I expect them to take over and there will be once again gaps to be filled by the best portable communicators.
If only 5% of a billion phone market wants a physical keyboard, and RIM is the only company that does really good physical keyboards, you know they have a viable business, while if the other 95% is slabphones, they can very easily lose market share. That may be why the rumor is so strong that the next thing out of the gate will be a Curve-alike.

There's a lot of haters that are dyeing to see BlackBerry fail, they'll come up with stories and spread lies and attempt to give it a bad rap!

Posted via CB10

Investors vs Speculators. Stocks should be held long-term. Once you have this mindset, crappy news such as this wouldn't matter much. Rather, it will show as an opportunity to BUY. I know I did. BBRY's financials are solid as per their OFFICIAL filings to SEC. (The investor side in me talking). Once the Q10 sales come in, BBRY's financials are going to be better than last quarter. (The speculator side in me talking. Pls disregard my last statement. hehe).

Went into tmo to get my z10 the other day and it was sad they had to go under the desk to get the display model. While I was waiting for them to get my Mobil in the back a good amount of people were looking at the phone and every person that looked at it a worker would rush to say "We are getting the iphone in a few days." BlackBerry just can't catch a break. Some major advertising needs to go on to interest buyers and more importantly sellers.

Posted via CB10

I once returned an HTC android phone (whatever the first one was called - I can't remember). And I returned an HTC ONE S last year. I have not, and will not be returning my Z10.

So sick of the friggin ANALysts talking cap and sick of the bloggers/media spreading false information. It's getting worse and worse

Posted via CB10

Tried checking the source of the news but the Detwiler Fenton & Co website is down. Absolutely unreliable news.

A little bit of history on Detwiler. They are a mom and pop investment shop mainly out of Boston. Their 15 minutes of Fame came from going long on Apple while shorting BB. Made piles of money for a while but have been taking a beating lately. They are hoping that lightening strikes twice.

Doesn't surprise me that their site is down. Sort of how stock manipulators work. Get the splashy headline and them remove the article before the story can be checked. Seen it happen a couple of times. My favorite was in November when a corporate front group pretending to be a nonprofit medical association said that old BB's were causing contact allergies. Once people started to ask who were the authors and if they had received financial compensation for this article, poof the article disappeared from the website. The damage had been done.

Once again the American media and, at this point, the media in general, prove that they have been reduced to little more than propaganda for undisclosed interests.


Maybe a lot of people returned their phones to att and bought them at T-Mobile to save money. I save like 50 dollars a month. No details on the news makes it really sketchy.

Posted via CB10

I used to deal with BlackBerry since 2002, here my comment as admin on the new BES10 and Z10/Q10.
first of all Blackberry lost almost all his differentiators: now Mapi - SRP are over BlackBerry are like Apple, Samsung etc. they use Active Sync. their proposal is to use AS through BlackBerry infra with AES between BES10/BDS and Z10 . we keep 3101 outbound only. but the Z10 encrypt data with TLS between the device and BlackBerry infra that means more Z10 processor stressed less battery life and more data exchanged. NOT GOOD AT ALL for user experience!! and I am not talking about roaming situation where that can be a disaster! what about application ? BlackBerry claims to have 100 000 apps , I tried for months the Z10 and most of the application in the BlackBerry Store are Android. the Dalvik machine on the Z10 that allow to have Android apps running is obsolete and apps crashed all the time !! BAD USER EXPERIENCE!! I am not talking that Dalvik machine is NOT AVAILABLE in the work space when Z10 is enrolled through BES10/BDS.
What about DEV? the best sdk is CASCADE that allow developers to dev apps natively. Cascade is based on C++ and Qt old NOKIA technology. and BATTERY LIFE? when the Z10 is used behind BES10/BDS the battery life is ridiculous just few hours not a day!!! and the device is always hot .
from side user the New Fresh UI is not from BlackBerry it's something copied from unbutu or some else.
Look at the BlackBerry situation they revenue from carrier SAF will decrease drag sly and their user based too. their is no innovation at all. The giant smartphone dominant like Apple, SamSung etc. are Monsters companies the challengers like Huaway, ZTE etc. are Monsters companies. The looser are alone BlackBerry, Nokia (even with some monnaie from Microsoft) etc.

Let me get this. Returns are surpassing sales? More phone are returned then are sold.... which means basically people are producing the phones elsewhere and selling it to BlackBerry... great stuff! sell the shares the company is doomed to spend all their cash to buy those returns!!!!

That last part was sarcasm for those who still believe in this bs...


Posted via CB10

i returned my z10 last night. i liked the overall flow. i didnt like the hub. i didnt like the lack of apps, i didnt like the way it integrated with my car bluetooth. i have been a bb abuser since my 8700 and just feel i shouldnt have to make excuses or settle. every comment is "give it time, its new, they will get it and so on" why should i/we wait. what loyalties do we have to have. i couldnt get the z10 to push my email. my work servers dont have push. verizon was unable to get it to work. i have gone back to my bb bold, i dont expect anything on the app side with it and just love it for what it is. my expectations on my bold are not there, just its the best e-mail device out there. i/we waited for the z10 and i feel they missed. i say this after having it for 8 days. i just hope my bb bold last forever and i will be happy

I finally Got the z10 I have to say that it's very good phone I was a android user with galaxy S2 and I'm no thinking to returns the z10 by far lol

Posted via CB10

God dammit. As if the media never cares to tell the truth again. They wrong another bunch of lies. WHEN will those assholes start to NOT lie? Like really?

I'm staying here in Abu dhabi, I'm visiting mobile shops in my city weekly, and there is many returns of Z10 device comparing to other smart phones in the market as there's still much applications shortage and not yet lunched for the device. You need to work hard on your device to save it from failure in the competition market. Try to arrange Skype, viber tango... etc.
Warmest regards.

Posted via CB10

I believe that the other phone apps will coming soon here for blackberry through the blackberry world, blackberry will rise and shine, me myself admit it that i can't move from blackberry phone.. love you blackberry :)

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