BlackBerry still beating Windows Phone market share in U.S.

By Simon Sage on 15 Aug 2013 10:16 am EDT

Lately there have been a few stories floating around about Windows Phone beating BlackBerry's market share, but that most recent batch of data took into account global markets. If you're looking at just the U.S., one of the most influential markets worldwide, BlackBerry still has the lead according to the latest comScore report. BlackBerry holds 4.4% of the share there while Microsoft sits at 3.1%.

Before we start cheering too loudly, let's stay realistic: we're talking about a difference of a little over a percentage point, and more than 90% of the market is still lorded by Android and iOS. With BlackBerry's U.S. share taking a dip since March and Microsoft inching up slightly, it's entirely possible that Windows Phone overtakes BlackBerry in the next quarter or two, but it would be a microscopic victory in the face of the next challenge. 

As far as sheer mass adoption, BlackBerry and Windows Phone are very much in the same tiny, crowded boat, despite Microsoft's insistence that BlackBerry doesn't have a chance of catching up.

How many of you guys have used a Windows Phone? In the long run, who do you think will win in the fight for third place? 

Reader comments

BlackBerry still beating Windows Phone market share in U.S.



I think your right, now that the q10 and q 5 are fully rolled out, I think the numbers may surprise. I see many q10's out in the wild.

Posted via the best Keyboard in Existence my Mo Fo Z10

These are subscriber numbers which means number of people that are using different OS's.

It does not mean BB outselling WP OS. It means BB subscriber base is higher than WP because of legacy devices that people are still using.

That is why this report mentions 142 million subscribers which is different from 30+ million people that have brought smartphones in the last 3 months.

You could say my whole company just did their part. 1,000+ employees previously equipped with iPhones all just had them pulled and now we're all equipped with Z10s. We're in Ottawa, but no, we're not a government ministry/agency. Private company who just wants the best security and features of a smart phone, while supporting another Canadian business.

I am with the Canadian federal government. We aren't using BB10 devices yet and no mention of doing so in the near future.
It's good to see business supporting another Canadian business because it seems our government isn't.
I wonder how much BlackBerry has pushed government to adopt the new BB10 devices? I know if I request a new phone today I will get a 9930.

Same here! Although I was just given an HTC One for my work phone...but I dual wielded for about 3 months!

Posted via CB10

A friend of mine just received a Z10 from his employer - a large national employer in Canada who is rolling out new Z10's to their employees (who are eligible for smart phones).

Since Windows XP, it has been getting worse. Windows 8 is a complete disaster. I would not go near a Windows phone if it was free! BlackBerry just needs to keep going. A good part of the world needs tools not toys. I never really understood that statement until I upgraded my laptop due to a hard drive failure from Windows 7 which was bad enough to Windows 8.

BlackBerry will survive in the Corporate and Government Sectors! My Z10 is so much better than an iphone!

I know what you mean, at first I said oh windows 8 is nice, then I started using it and now I hate it. If BlackBerry didn't exist I would consider a windows xp phone, xp ran great for me with 512mb of ram, it could do everything.

Posted via CB10

I personally love windows 7. Been using it since it first came out and have experienced no problems what so ever.. windows 8 appears to be absolute shite though..

Posted via CB10

If you have the hardware to support 8 it's a good experience. I don't think the article is about the desktop OS. Windows Phone 7 and Windows Phone 8 are different things than Windows 7 and Windows 8

Posted via CB10

But in a serious note... my z10 just started closing my bbm convos with someone yesterday and now everytime i try to open it... it closes immediately, anyone know how to fix this?

Posted via CB10

That started happening to me too starting the other day. It opens then closes quickly. I have to keep clicking on it until it finally opens and stays open (from the Hub). I'm running leak. Not sure if it's a bug there or in BBM.

I'm running 10.1 so i assume it's a problem with bbm then :/ I have no idea what triggered it though

Posted via CB10

There are bunches of users of , including me. No issues so far,10.2 rocks. On topic, WP have no soul and Nokia will embrace Android, in less than two years. That if they don't go under sooner than......

I have been running the leaked 10.2 for weeks now with zero problems. The Hub BBM thing just started a day or two ago. Although I just downloaded and installed the update to BBM from the Beta Zone, so I'll see if that fixes this issue.

Posted via CB10

I don't think Nokia will go down and I think they will stay with WP. They've got a lot more fight left in them and they really do make phones with outstanding build quality. If I wasn't using a BB there is a good chance I would have a Nokia. Well... I do like my flash. Decisions decisions...

I don't think Nokia is going down either but I don't think they will stay alone on Windows Phone, the contract they made with Microsoft expires somewhere in 2016. After that they're free to favor any platform they want. What I also find funny is that Nokia is going to support Symbian till 2016.

In my little circle:
1st iPhones
2nd BlackBerrys (But 99% are still on Legacy Devices)
3rd Androids (Those that can't afford an iPhone go to Andriod)
4th... No windows phones spottet at all.

My boss has windows phones. (2 of them) I have BlackBerry. All my employees have android and iPhone. Lol

Posted via CB10

Me and one friend at work have new Blackberries. The bosses use bbos except the big boss who has Iphones. We are not allowed to have Andriod at work.

Posted via CB10

Hey Ian where are u from?
In the Caribbean Android is first, blackberry legacy devices second, iPhone third, windows phone forth.

Posted via CB10 via Z10

I'm in Miami, obviously being the Capital of Latin America, lots of BlackBerrys! But that is quickly changing.. :/

Posted via CB10

Not in the Caribbean I am in! I see BlackBerries everywhere, both legacy and BB10, and then occasionally you see an Android with a few hidden Apple phones here and there.

I don't know anyone with a Windows phone either, but I also haven't seen anyone else with another Z10..

Posted via CB10

I'm in the UK and have never seen a Windows phone. Would be interested to know how many there are out there.

Posted via CB10

I know of one civil engineering firm that has adopted WP8 because the cameras on the Nokia phones are so good and they are so solid. But as I understand it most sales are of the low end models, which I suspect are sold at a loss with the support of Microsoft.

sold at a loss or not, they're sold. As long as Microsoft is paying for the loss, it's a game that can continue for quite some time.

Ridiculous. Just venture out doors , it's not even close.
Android,Apple...then the Old model BB, and every so often if you get lucky you see a WP8 and or BB Z10. Walk in to a Star Bucks and look at peoples phones.

Seriously. If BB or shall I say BB's Z10 was so predominant as it should have been , we would not be talking SALE of BB.

Rofl! Starbucks!? You mention the most hipster place ever for your analysis? All you will see at Starbucks at macbooks, iPads and iPhones. It's like coming to and looking for android devices. Very very rare.

Posted via CB10

Starbucks for hipsters? Are you 80? The only people at starbucks are teenagers that can't hang out at bars, students, and old people. Hipsters wouldn't be seen in a starbucks, unless your definition of hipster is anyone with a macbook.

The people that go to starbucks now are just everyday normal people, and the fact that you never see a bb device in their stores is a problem. Now please, quit embarrassing yourself with all this hipster nonsense. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm close to the opposite. I've seen Windows Phones (though not many), but I haven't seen any BB10 devices in the wild. I still see legacy devices though, and probably see more legacy BlackBerry devices than Windows Phones.

I have seen one windows phone but the person had it set up all lame. Two straight lines of the same size boxes not even taking up the whole display.

Posted via CB10

Same! I've only once ever seen someone use a windows phone and within a month they got rid of it! definitely seen more BlackBerry's around.

-1 windows phone browser blows chunks
Live tiles are pretty, but useless.
The only good part is social integration, and the nice quality that Nokia always delivers for hardware.

BlackBerry is a better experience.

Posted via CB10

...I'm sorry but it's been around for how long?...and it is just recently been getting it right?...or maybe a few times right in its XP and 7...not an awesome track only does well (IMHO) due to the pre made computer market (which is where most buy a PC). Here they get bundled to machines because there is no real choice...except for an overpriced Mac, or little known Linux. Windows may have gotten off well, but they have been for the most part lazy since...

I really like windows phone 8. If not for the q10 I would have stuck with windows phone 8. I had a Lumia 920. It was a great phone quick easy to use very powerful phone. And the Nokia build quality is amazing.

I have a q10 that I love and would never give up for another device. I think they are different markets BlackBerry is synonymous with productivity. Wp8 is fun apps sleek stylish social media machine. Once the android app integration gets better in blackberry, the margin will widen the key is for people to find out you can side load apps. Many people don't know about that and it will be a differentiator when integration is tighter.

Those are my 2 cents

TL DR: Nokia windows phone awseome, blackberry getting awesomer.

Posted via CB10

I think that Thorsten Heins would argue that BlackBerry *is* creating an ecosystem... a mobile ecosystem. There are so many possibilities ahead for BlackBerry in the mobile space, but it will take time to build out. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. One has to hope that BlackBerry has enough time.

Posted via CB10 on Zed10.

No it does not suck and I speak as someone who uses a Z10. WP is differentiated from other os's. I think it had a reputation of being clunky but perhaps the more informed can tell me if that's still true.

You've clearly not used it for any length of time. I have both a BlackBerry Z10 and a Lumia 925. I find myself missing the 925 when I don't have it with me. The interface is much more intuitive, and the clean look is incredibly refreshing after all these clone UIs. The only argument that can be made against WP8 is the lack of apps, and that argument is getting so weak that it's practically a battle cry for Android and iOS fans that can't think of what else to say.

Posted via CB10

There is no way I would prefer the UI of WP8 over BB10. It is usually smooth, quick and fun to look at, but that is it. Maneuvering through the UI for any daily tasks is much more fluid on BB10 especially when it comes to communication. I do like it though and recommend it to associates or clients looking for something new, depending on their objectives. I definitely agree with the argument of "lack of apps" is something just to pick on.

I have both and WP is prettier (or at least more unique) but BB10 definitely has better multitasking and flow.

Posted via CB10

I can definitely make another argument against Windows Phone 8 as long as it doesn't feature screen orientation lock. The notifications are still bad, as well.

When you say that windows sucks you are no different from those mor*ns who say that BB10 sucks even without trying it. I would rather have windows 8 phone than Android or IOS any day. Both Windows 8 and BB10 are great.

I agree completely. I came to my Z10 from the Lumia 800. The latter being literally the best looking phone ever made.

I love WP and BB10. I made sure I got only a 12 month contract with the Z10 so I can judge in the not so distant future which of the two platforms will be better.

Posted via CB10

Absolutely, for professionals! I honestly don't think any other phone could perform at such a level, because there foundation was not built with the business professional in mind. Rather, the consumer.

Posted via BlackBerry Z10 Channel C00106B82

Amen to that! When companies started to stumble, then Blackberry's demise started (unfortunately) also..
Posted with Z10STL100-1/

Unfortunately that's an old argument that is false...if it were true, countless organizations would not have moved onto iphones...

Not necessarily. If an exec likes his iPhone he may tell the IT dept to just make it work.

Any IT people I've spoken to prefer the BlackBerry.

Posted via CB10

We have a manager who wanted a MacBook and couldn't have one, so he used a Sharpie to black out the "Lenovo" and "ThinkPad" on his laptop and put an apple sticker on the lid. Never underestimate the power of mindless execs....

Professional what? Saying "professional" is kinda like saying "mobile computing" I'n not sure anyone knows exactly what they mean when they say it.

But I'll like you take a shot at it.

Not many people talk these days about BlackBerry e.g. in the City of London. It has been lasting about two years you can hear talks about iPhone and Androids. It shouldn't happen when BB10(.2) is launched...

[...] new BYOD hero:

She hasn't done anything for the brand. It was money not well spent. BlackBerry needs to market user experience. BlackBerry 10 is an awesome os.

Posted via CB10

I doubt BlackBerry sunk a lot of money into that partnership. It's more of a cross promotional initiative. Although Alicia Keys likely benefits more.

Firing her would show panic and suggest a lack of foresight in hiring her in the first place. So they won't, regardless of whether they should.

Posted via CB10

Maybe they should get someone in their target audience to endorse it...maybe Eric Schmidt as he loves his bold?... lol

Posted via CB10

So let me understand this one ?
"BB10 is for Professionals!" but you chose your device because of Alecia Keys ?
*shakes head*
Maybe this is the indicative of the problem with BB. People that are informed and do there research on all fronts do not purchase a smartphone based on what pop star is endorsing it. That sounds like what a teen would do . Not a Professional. Again no offense but the reasoning of how you choose purchased your device is just really strange. It is of course you choice and money so hey , whatever makes you happy.

It is a jest. Nobody uses actual reasoning when buying a device as a whole. They buy what is popular, what is stylish, and a lot of times, what is priced accordingly. Do you think a 13 year old girl or a Celebrity, whom the common public tends to worship, cares what processor a phone is running and if it is Android CornDog or iOS 6.1.4? The problem is that BB forgot about the consumer and its cult like fickleness. I love BB10 and I do purchase phones based upon specs and personal usage, but that is not for the majority.

Actually I and 3 others that I KNOW OFF, as in they are people I frequent actually purchased the Nexus 4 because it actually offered all the specs and points including price that we were looking for. The Nexus 4 has every feature the Z10 have and then some. All for less $. To say nobody actually uses reasoning when purchasing a $400- $600 device is silly. I'm sure it happens , but not all people. I'm into technology as it's part my line of work , and I certainly do research when purchasing a Device.
The reason the majority did not buy a BB is simple , Apple an Android have more to offer and far more Apps for them to use with the other millions of people the want to use them with. Price was also a huge factor.

Have Used a windows. Not user friendly in the least. And talk about lack of apps, especially banking ones. Don't care about how 'it works in the browser' not the point. BB10 way better to use.

Posted via CB10

Did you know that windows phone has no notification system!!! Who would want a phone with no notification centre!

Posted via my white Z10. LG banter- blackberry bold 9900- Z10

I think on WP8 the tiles will show number of unread messages. Whether you call it notification is another thing.

Posted via CB10

Did you know BlackBerry has no actionable notifications? Oh wait, that's coming in 10.2.

Notification Centre is coming in Windows Phone 8.1.

What do you mean by this?

So it doesn't have a 'hub' per se, but it has LIVE TILES that let you know instantly which inbox etc has news messages...

Also the lock screen displays enough info. But overall BB's Hub reigns supreme with regards to notifications.

Posted via CB10

You've used Windows Phone 8, specifically? I can't see how it's not user friendly. It's the simplest mobile OS on the market. I'd say BlackBerry 10 is the least user friendly, and I work for a mobile phone company. I've only sold one that didn't bring it back in a couple of days because it was too hard to learn.

And I have more banking apps on my Lumia 925 than BlackBerry Z10. Bank of America isn't even available on the Z10, and that is absolutely absurd. Neither is Wells Fargo. Two of the biggest banks in the US, a market share that BlackBerry supposedly holds third place in- Not on BlackBerry 10, but on WP8. Can you expand on what banking apps you're using?

I get incredibly frustrated with people who won't give WP8 a fair shake. They're offering something different, and people balk at it because they don't care to venture outside of their comfort zones. It's a superior mobile OS. And about notifications- Live tiles are a better way to do this than what I've seen on any other OS. What is the point in a notification center when everything you need is visible from the single home screen. That would just be repetitive.

Posted via CB10

To have choices it's the best situation for everybody! If you bought a BB10 device as your first BlackBerry, I can understand that you returned! Otherwise, maybe you should buy an iPhone. Repetitive what? You haven't the slightest idea about how BlackBerry Hub it's working.

I definitely wasn't talking about BlackBerry Hub when I mentioned repetition. I own a Z10, I'm well aware of how the Hub works and I'll be the first to tell you how great it is. You should read my post again (and pay attention this time, try a few reading comprehension strategies), but I'll break it down for you anyway:

Having a notification center in WINDOWS PHONE 8 would be repetitive due to live tile notifications.

Also, most of the people I've dealt with are upgrading from legacy BlackBerry devices. Their the ones returning them. There's hardly even such a thing as "new to BlackBerry" customers in my location.

Posted via CB10

As a WP8 owner, I have to disagree with the OS but a notification system is missing...I don't want live tiles for everything...for instance...I get nice Ebay notifications but they quickly disappear and they are never to return...they show up on the top...perhaps I don't want to open the app to see what is there...
Sure I get the live tile thing and I think it rocks but I don't see a problem with a notifications area and obviously MS doesn't have a problem with it either since they are creating a notifications screen

I also like live tiles in my Nokia but also want a notification center. They really serve different purposes and the earlier thinking that live tiles == notification center are just not true. Fortunately ms said it is coming.

Posted via CB10

Thank you lipper and SirKneeland for getting the point across with the difference between notifications and information from the live tiles. I used the CNN app on my Lumia 900 and was frustrated with the way that breaking news alerts worked on there. You literally had to have the device in your hand when the alert came through or you would never see it again. If you open the CNN app at that point, there is nothing to indicate which of the top stories triggered the breaking news alert.

the other issue is that the text would run off the screen in that tiny toast notification and of course after that it is lost and gone forever. Seriously flawed. Metro was and is a bold and great concept, but it is time for Microsoft to stop patting itself on the back for doing something bold and to go back and do some serious refinement of the system.

Sadly, Big Windows (that is, Windows 8 and soon 8.1) gets all the attention.

WP8 has far more banking apps than's not even close.
If you are talking about Canada then you are correct but only in Canada

Microsoft has the money(billions) and resources to keep pumping into it to keep it alive. BlackBerry doesn't have that kind of money or resources. BB 10 is a way better platform than Windows phone for enterprises and now consumer!

1) Hub
2) flow and peak
3) very fast browser
4) best virtual keypad in the market
5) OS is very fast and smooth
6) best for notification s

Posted via CB10

"Better" doesn't always beat "has more money", unfortunately. If it did webOS would still be a thing.

Posted via CB10

But defense and government agencies world-wide exclusively use Blackberry. Despite the 'trials' and 'approvals' you've heard about for iPhones in the military, that was just done in order to cover their ass in case Blackberry went out of business. Now that they see the Z10 and Q10 (as well as additional Blackberry models) are out, working, and well-supported by Blackberry, they're all migrating to BB10. You will not get iPhones or Android devices in military or government purchasing so long as BB is more secure. It would be too hard to explain a security breach due to crappy iOS or Android security holes. Microsoft, on the other hand, has no safety net. Their installed base is very large, but there's nothing to prevent migration to linux or other desktop OSs for PCs and notebook computers in military/government; there's no security or other compelling argument which outweighs other concerns.

"Their installed base is very large, but there's nothing to prevent migration to linux or other desktop OSs for PCs and notebook computers in military/government"

Except for a staggering amount of inertia. This is the government we are talking about here. They'd still be using Windows 2000 if it got security updates from Microsoft.

How much of that 4.4% is BBOS users v. BB10 users. I think a more telling number is percentage of units sold. Or conversation percentage of BBOS users to BB10 users.

If WP8 sales are continuing to grow (albeit slowly) and BB sales are continuing to stagnate or slip then this 4.4% is a meaningless number in the long-run.

I thought that, but it seems priced awfully high when the Firefox OS Phone, Nokia Asha, and of course all sorts of less-terrible-than-you-would-think low cost Androids can be had for $100 less than that new BBOS7 phone

But BlackBerry grew their bb10 sales q over q...a more fair comparison would be to the second quarter of WP7 (or 8 if you feel they are that massively different but I don't believe they are) availability

Posted via CB10

If, if Blackberry had come out with this smartphone 2-3 years ago, they`d still have 40% of the market share in smartphones. I still don`t understand why they fell so far behind when they were the ones innovating smartphones. One con the Samsung phone has in my opinion is that it is not user friendly. I`ve been a loyal BB user and I have the Z10 now, and it`s a shame people have lost confidence in the company since this one is one hell of a smartphone.

You seriously don't understand? It's because Mike Lazaridis underestimated Apple's potential to change the smartphone landscape and Jim Balsillie pursued the personal dream of owning an NHL franchise while Android was on the rise. One was out of touch with reality and the other lacked focus.

You mean they should have predicted this 6 to 7 years ago as it takes 3 or 4 years to build from scratch? No one could have done that. I remember seeing a marketing presentation by RIM (now BlackBerry) 2 or 3 years ago that stated Android would be number one. This was when Android was 1% Apple was 9% and BlackBerry was over 60%. It was at that time when they started to build the new BBOS which is now BB10. The market declined so rapidly we are lucky to still have a BlackBerry option.

Posted by my Z10 while still waiting for my full Bridge support

If BlackBerry doesn't step up their brand repair efforts and marketing, Microsoft will take third even though BlackBerry 10 is superior. That said, if I had to choose something other than BlackBerry I would likely go with a Windows phone. That's how little I think of the top two platforms.

Posted via CB10

And I wouldn't go for anything but Android or BB10 (currently on Android), since these two OS don't treat the consumer as a noob like iOS and Windows Phone and completely lock down every damn thing to keep it simple, hehe.

Keeping it simple appeals to unintelligent people... and let's face it, unintelligent people are 90% of the population. :P

But honestly, I feel as though it is too simple to navigate through Windows Phone, and it gives it a sense of not having features, even when it does. At least complexity gives the illusion that it has many features.

My Tech-Fleet: Q10; Z10; PlayBook; Surface Pro; Xbox 360; HP TouchPad; iPod Touch 5

Ah but that is EXACTLY why the people on IOS, BB10,WP8 will never get it. People do not want to learn anything anymore. I'm always shaking my head when i hear Apple users saying Iphone is the best because it so easy to use. No different from BB users and Wp users. The reason Android IS by far the most amazing OS is because it is indeed more customizable then any of the others out there. That is also the reason you have a TON of people developing for it. Just the the other day i came across and New APP that allows you to individually allow or disallow " the permissions " that the APP is asking for when you first install. So basically if I do not want an APP to see my Contacts or my location I can turn it off for that APP. One of many things Android does that you can not do on any other OS.
Unfortunately people that dont read up or frequent the Developer forums just never will know. reminds me of the days back when I had an Iphone and no one knew how to unlock it , even though if you went online and took time to read up and study it , it was all there.
Oh well. People just like to be spoon fed today, that is why APPLE is a Mantra with it's users.

What a load of BS...
The reason android is the most popular is because it's free which leaves device manufacturers a very cheap way to make a phone...developing and maintaining an OS costs literally billions and most just couldn't do it regardless.

I use Android everyday with my nexus 7, have an ipad, had iphones in the past and current use WP8 and WIN8 for computing (as well as WIN7)...
WP8 is far more user friendly than Android...the fact that you can change so much is actually what makes it confusing to many...people generally don't care what OS they have as long as it works as a phone and has the apps they want....if 90% of all available smartphones were not based on Android, but perhaps WP8 or BB10, they would buy those instead

Settings > Security and Privacy > Application Permissions

BB10 has it. Just doesn't work for side-loaded apps but as we all know those aren't really supported anyways. BB10 is very fully featured. 10.2 should bring it to where it can hold its own against some of the more feature rich android handsets. BTW android runtime is a feature and I think only android and BB10 have it :P

So from Applications Permissions you can for example prevent FaceBook App from having access to your GPS location among other things ? and turn that feature off ?
If so then My hat tips off to the developers of BB , at least that one right .
App Ops not only does that , but it also shows you if the APP HAS used any of the permissions in question on your phone or not. Very nice.

A ton of app developers, and yet I prefer, almost to an app, the iphone version. No one gives a damn about quantity, it's quality. That 'ton' of developers you love are mostly complete crap. And this might be shocking to you, but most people don't change their phone at all. I know it's hard to believe that since you spend hours customizing your crappy android phone that others have no desire to, but it doesn't make it any less true.

" I know it's hard to believe that since you spend hours customizing your crappy android phone that others have no desire to, but it doesn't make it any less true."
Did you ever stop and think for minute why BB is no longer popular ?
According to you no one wants any of the points you made and to top that off, you imply the opposite. " others have no desire to "
This is exactly WHY BB users will never learn anything other then what they know now. It is exactly like Apple users, IPHONE or nothing, iphone is the best. BB is crap, Android is crap. I have heard it all before many times. Ive owned a BB, and Iphone , guess what i tried Android and like it. Millions of others have ALSO tried Android and like it, it is the REASON people do not flock back to BB.
They actually ENJOY all Apps and features you don't get on BB.
But believe what you want to believe. Use what you prefer. No matter to me.

Windows Phone and Android held steady while BlackBerry lost market share to Apple. Even after releasing two major new products compared to Apple's none. That's the more compelling takeaway from this report.

one of the first rules of business is when sales are down and your struggling the best this you can do is blow your cash on marketing. Apple's iphone is a good phone not a great phone just a good one. But there marketing department is genius. they start with kids because they know they will be young adults willing to blow cash for a status symbol. most of us old guys don't keep up on the latest trends. BB markets to us the over 40 business guys and that's there problem. go after the kids and the kids will tell there parents what to buy. they need to hire the guys who did the gap commercials.

I agree, the BlackBerry marketing has not been good. The product is great, but no one knows about it because the advertising doesn't explain it well and make you want one. Now I could say the same thing about WP and the total opposite about iPhone and Android (oops I meant Samsung). Advertising needs to create desire to buy what is being sold and you can only do that by appealing to emotions first and logic second. So far I haven't seen anything that taps into the emotion of wanting one. The new ones are better, but not by much.

Posted via CB10

I guess this stupid idea will never die. I switched from a PC to a mac years ago for specific reasons, not marketing. I was using a BB when the iPhone came out, didn't watch the keynote, was completely happy with my BB. When I went in to renew my contract I had no intention in switching to an iPhone, but I had to wait in line so I decided to play with one. Walked out with an iPhone, no marketing needed. And the reasons I won't switch back to BB also have nothing to do with marketing.

Yes, marketing is important, but it's not like Apple is the only company to market. They spend much less than marketing than samsung.

You could switch BB's marketing team with Apple and it wouldn't make a difference. BB is dying, and it has nothing to do with marketing. It has to do with not reacting quick enough, and coming to the party too little, too late. No marketing can change that.

It saddens to me to see how delusional the last few BB fans are. Didn't use to be that way. Anyone that believes Apple is where they are because of marketing, or that Apple came back from the dead because of marketing, is a moron.

Apple is great at marketing. They also have spent years putting out great products (even if they are not for you) and creating their own ecosystem. If you can't see that you should take off your BB blinders before the BB ship completely goes under water.

Dude your lost. first of all you had to wait to pick up your new BB so you played with an iphone and that sold you. so why did you pick up an iphone? because of marketing. otherwise you would never heard of an iphone. I have 6 aunts and uncles that own Iphones. They make calls with it that’s it. I asked them why did they choose an Iphone and they all told me because that’s the phone the sales men told them to get. That’s marketing. My kids and wife told me they wanted iphones. I asked them why and they told me it was because they are cool and they saw them on TV plus they can get better phone covers. Again marketing. Apple is cool that’s marketing. Iphone adds run all the time. Over and over and over they spend twice what Samsung spends promoting their phones and a hell of a lot more than BB.

BB isn't dying they are just fine. does my z10 have as many apps as apple? NO! but they will and I don’t really need 10 different farting apps. Now if you honestly compared the iphone with the z10. Z10 wins hands down. They are basically the same phone. Apple has more apps I’ll give you that. But BB has time shift on the camera iphone users would kill for that, bb has the hub one stop to see everything at once apple would kill for that, BB has the peak one of the best features apple has nothing like it, I could go on and on but you get the point. Hands down the z10 and q10 kicks apples ass. I’ll keep my16gig BB z10 and my two 64 gig micro sd cards that I can switch at any time. I’ll keep my z10 and download my fav movies and TV shows into it and when I go to my buddies house we can watch a movie without using up my data plan.

Personally I’m sick of guys like you. trolling around BB blogs bashing BB. You’re an apple guy why on earth would you waste your time on a blog for BB! ill tell you because you work for apple or you’re a looser living in your mothers basement with nothing better to do. either way you’re a waste of time and no one care's about your opinion. this is for BB fans not apple rejects. It’s funny its always apple guys who go onto BB and samsung blogs and bash the phones. get a life dude. you love your apple crap great good for you now kiss my BB ass and go away. I would never waste my time going on to a blog for something I wasn’t interested in.

Yup. They should have 2 billion, not the 3 billion they actually have. A full 1 billion should have gone into marketing BB10.

Huge error not going 110% on marketing for the US release (and months prior to it).

The Z30 will be the last bb10 phone made by BlackBerry. They might as well be confirmed to be selling their hardware business.

Posted via CB10

Either marketing or devs should have at least a bil. Those are the two things that would make the biggest difference. Or at least hire some kids to advertise BB10 in front of carrier locations or something. So many good ways to use a billion dollars.

This may sound like a broken record, however, third place will be the company who dishes out native applications quicker than its competitor.

In today's tech world and society, the majority of people are looking for phones that are compatible with the most popular apps.

Both Windows and BlackBerry are lacking in apps, making it difficult to shift customers from iOS and Android.

Posted via CB10

That's one component. Marketing & promotion, innovation, enterprise adoption, and appealing to the entry level market are all factors.

Agreed. But it is difficult to market a phone that is lacking critical apps for all consumers, from novices to expertise.

Most of my conversations about smart phones with people focus more on available apps, whether fun or utility based, opposed to talking about specifications of the phone.

People want apps.

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BlackBerry MUST start competing with the Nokia Lumia 520 and soon to be released Lumia 625, at the low end of the smartphone market.

This is critical to maintaining and advancing that lead.

Q5 needs to be sold for under, £250.

The soon to be released Bold 9720, needs to be sold for under £170.

The low end is where the market growth is, not the high end market.

So swift and decisive action should be taken as soon as possible.

What they need are cheaper phones running BB10, not BB7. People are not gullible enough especially in markets like India to buy BB7 phones today when there are Android and Windows Phone alternatives, not to mention local manufacturer devices which offer great bang for buck (though poor longevity). However, seeing as how 2GB seems to be required for a good experience on BB10, I don't see them going low anytime soon. Unless that was a reason they gave for cancelling Playbook's update because it's an important device and wouldn't mind going lower to 1GB/512MB RAM?

If the BB10 Q5 does not officially drop in price, it will be a Flop.

I don't give a S@it about the need for 2 GB of ram, drop the price, or Fail.

Same here. The 2GB RAM requirement, if it exists, must go away, and the prices must drop if they want to get ahead. It's great they don't want to compromise the experience by going low-end, but it's something they'll need to do since the high-end is occupied and the low-end won't be enough with BB7.

Absolutely agree with you.

I understand the reasoning behind 2GB ram for BB10 as its essential to smooth multitasking on the platform.

The average punter, couldn't give a rats A$$ about that and why they should pay more for it.

When your Samsung, you can pull that move and spin some marketing crap about the specs.

Speaking of Samsung, Who's gonna have the marketing upper hand when the G Note 3 lands with ( A HUGE 3GB OF RAM ) /s

Bang for your buck guys/gals, The best form of marketing behind Word of mouth.

My Nokia N9 running Meego Harmattan (Linux) only had 1 GB ram, ran on a single core 1 GHz ARM cpu and used Qt4 as it's architectural foundation - it ran smooth and could easily handle +20 applications in real multitasking (not the kind which iOS, Android and Windows Phone does).

Does BlackBerry's engineers/developers with the help of the QNX and TAT guys not measure up to the folks of old Nokia? :P

(I love my Z10, but my N9 are still stronger on many points)

Good point.

Without a doubt, Meego and WebOS back then, could multitask better than iOS, android and windows P8 can now.

When you factor in that BB10 seems to be very greedy inits need for ram, you could say that they were also better optimised than BB10 and therefore better also.

The problem is, that the better spec/ tech, always seems to loose the war to a cheaper, less advanced system.

BB10 runs like a tank.

If it was an American war weapon, it would win the war.

But it seems to be in the hands of the British, who would prefere to use a more conservative approach to out flank and maybe outwit the enemy.

BlackBerrys deployment of weapons capability, is flawed and conventional.

This is Gorrila warfare, and an unorthodoxed attack is what's called for to succeed.

I think bb7 is still great for emerging markets (assuming it still supports BIS which I imagine it would) as data is still fairly expensive... with BIS it is still an attractive phone due to compression and free Internet, but feel free to correct me if I'm off base

Posted via CB10

I think keeping BB7 devices alive is a waste of time. For example, I know Ecuador is a big BlackBerry country. They're like many emerging markets where data is expensive. But everybody I know there is dropping it for Samsung & iPhone. Why? Cuz BBOS can't compete with Android & iOS.

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What you have to remember is BB need a reasonable transition period, to upgrade BBos users to BB10.

This is crucially important.

The foundation of BB10 success, is legacy users upgrading and therefore maintaing the overall current BlackBerry user base.

Just imagine if Samsung stopped updating Bugs and the android os, on the Galaxy S2.

Do you thing they would be the powerhouse they are today?

Would the GS3, GS4, Note, Note 2, Note 3 or GMEGA etc even materialise in the market?

This is a delicate set positions and options to balance.

You only get one shot, gotta make it count.

I agree with this but BB7 needs to start fading away and the BB10 devices need to come down in price. You didn't see Nokia selling 920s for $700, they sold for $450 outright and $99 for 2y. Blackberry needs to lower the prices, reduce that ridiculous 2GB RAM requirement because it's the stupidest thing I've ever seen. I mean, no other OS needs that much. Blackberry needs to start making compromises like Microsoft did to get the OS running on the lowest common denominators. WP7 ran on as little as 256MB and 8 runs well on 512 but compromises come in apps. As a developer myself, I know there is room to optimize and bring that requirement down. In terms of pricing, BB needs to reduce their BB10 margins and become more price competitive or they can become better friends with the component companies and get them to lower their prices(Idk how that works so that may or may not be possible). There is no reason why Nokia is able to sell their 520 for so little and still make money where BB is releasing the 9720 with specs from 2010.

I agree with lots of your points.

With regard to the need for 2GB ram on BB10, I fully agree.

Some optimisation of the os should be raised as a long term priority to be more efficient with the hardware.

If ram is a factor in contribution of high costs at retail, surely BlackBerry does not want to have to raise its future models ram by 2GB every 18 months, and have to slap that cost on an unforgiving public.

Nokia clearly have an advantage over BlackBerry with regards to keeping manufacturing costs down on their low end smartphones.

I have spent much time criticising BB on the cost of the Q5 and even the Z10 & Q10 at launch.

They clearly have a problem with scale and overall parts management & costs.

So if this is to improve in the future, I'm sure an external hardware manufacturing partner must be found, to be, and stay competive.

BB really screwed up when they didn't come up with a solution for BB10 that would allow the low data consumption of BB7 with BB10...there is virtually no reason any longer to go with BB10 over android or WP8 in Indonesia, Vietnam, South Africa or the other formerly strong BB7 markets where people went with BB because of the low data plan pricing

Due to the fact that the Q5 does have superior specs, I think BB could have priced it above the £120 or so, that the 520 sells for.

But as I originally said on the CrackBerry post ( By james i think ) which stated the official RRP of the Q5, £350 sim free, was going to be a mistake, especially if BBs competitors at low end, ( Nokia, Huawei etc ) produced low cost, bang for ya buck, smartphone hit devices.

It may now be to late for BB to adjust for the competition, and the Nokia Lumia 625, will be a big problem for them now.

To be honest, I'm fed up of repeating myself, so this is the last time I will speak on this particular issue.

I don't know anyone with a Windows phone.

Posted via my white Z10. LG banter- blackberry bold 9900- Z10

I've never seen a single BlackBerry 10 device that wasn't my own. Yet I know 4 people other than myself that own Lumias.

See, my comment was as pointless as yours.

Really ? Every time i go into a Coffee shop All i see is Android and Iphones, Oh yes, and OLD BB's. That is a fact , here on earth. Your point ?

No, he probably doesn't live in Canada...which is probably the only place in the world where you will see more BB10's than Lumia devices

I have a 925, and two people I know have an 810, and 822.
Currently I know two people that HAD Z10's. I might hold out for the Z30 and keep it around. However, windows phone OS is a good alternative to android/IOS, as is BB10. It comes down to preference and apps/ecosystem integration.

I've never seen Windows phone in the wild either. Probably cause wp8 is a terrible operating system. No notifications, multitasking, ugly ui

Posted via my white Z10. LG banter- blackberry bold 9900- Z10

Again this is preference orientated. I love the way the OS works. And I take the same amount of time to check my notifications as I did on my Z10. Windows OS is hurting on real time multitasking. However, that is also the reason why windows OS sips battery life.

There will be more Windows Phones out there. The Nokia 1020's monster camera and the 520's outstanding value have each created buzz.

Yep, all four of the people I know with lumias have a 521. At 129 bucks, it is basically impossible to be dissatisfied with that phone.

Hell , lets assume you did purchase a Lum 521 and decide, what a piece of crap... guess what your only out $129. Not so with people that purchased a BB, they are panicking , trying to sell there Used phones on Ebay for $400 !
No thanks, I'd rather go with the Lumina first, at least it is a small price to pay if I'm not satisfied.

BB users know , BB priced them selves out of the market, Everyone knows this. Sales show this and there keep doing it over and over , Q5 $399 ? That is the problem.

I tried WP once in a shop and it crashed. That was probably fixed, but I think both have a chance to succeed (both are very fast comped to Android)

Never used a windows phone, come to think of it, I don't think I have ever seen one in the wild.

Posted via CB10

Well, in the gym I go to, I don't see anything but Samsung, and... a BlackBerry Z10! No Windows Phone no matter what time I go there. I'm in India, where WP is doing considerably better than BB10 devices due to the low-cost and love for Nokia, but still, it's hard to spot either, unless you talk about BB7, which are aplenty.

This could be good news and Blackberry could be on a really solid footing in a year's time...... but now the news is all about selling the company and the future is very much in doubt. I think that the whole "selling the company" thing needs to get figured out quickly so people can decide if they want to invest in a Blackberry phone.

And it must be said that Windows marketshare is mostly due to a few smaller European countries and cheap Nokias in developing countries. If BB10 moves into the low cost segment soon then their sales will also start to take off. And by "low cost" I mean cheaper than a Q5.

I'd love to see a Canadian company like BB survive in it's current form but I think the chances of seeing BB10 devices from BB in 1-2 years is looking pretty bleak...

I agree, but it ain't over till the fat lady sings!

At the very least I'm going to have a good hard look at the Z30 when it comes out. It should be a half decent phone and it should be just fine for a few years, even if things change at BB.

BB10 needs 2GB of RAM. That and BB's limited scale, and no low-DPI option hurt the ability to make phones very cheap.

By comparison, a WP8 Phone can be made with a low-res display and 512MB of RAM...and happens to have Nokia's scale behind it, which even after years of failure and shrinkage, is still huge.

Windows phone is alright, but it's so built for the consumer market that it's tough to justify for a power user. Can't attach two files to the same email, can't natively attach a document from the email app, everything pushed to SkyDrive... Just not my cup of tea, though if anything happens to BlackBerry it would still be my choice over Android or iOS...

@ rthonpm. I fill the same way. Though I think as people, hopefully get back to the importance of security, BlackBerry will gain more market share again.

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Security is not a major selling factor to the average consumer. It doesn't measure up to having a cool, reliable device with an expansive app catalogue.

It's a good thing that WP let us to attach one document. Maybe in windows 9 that number will be zero...

I used to have a windows phone and actually quite enjoyed it. It had a few quirks I didn't care for. The keyboard was better than most android phones but I still found it difficult to use (press b instead of the spacebar nearly 100% of the time). I think Windows Phone may have the upper hand when it comes to multiple service integration, more and more people are buying into a suite of services not just a phone service. Android has google everything, mail, store, social network (hah!) etc. iOS has their line of ieverything else that can mostly all connect. Windows Phone is part of Microsoft and while they have less connectivity I think people can feel like they are capable of connecting to more services than just a smart phone.

Blackberry is at a disadvantage there. There are no Blackberry laptops and other services that you get to feel apart of when you buy a BB10 phone. However, I think Blackberry has an advantage when it comes to the user experience and interface. Both Windows Phone and Blackberry have had to think outside the box here and I think that is great, both offer a unique version of a smartphone but I think Blackberry's is superior having used both. The layers and swiping and open apps is great. In Windows Phone I was constantly pushing back-back-back to close apps, to get back to a menu etc. It was so much back buttoning. I think Windows Phone is a bit more popular because of the little touches like being able to change your tile colors etc, it makes the phone more accessible. Blackberry feels more like a work horse. I think if more people had the opportunity to try BB10 they would find it really enjoyable.

Trying a Z10 at 500€ it's not an option. Unfortunately! And back back back it's speaks all about windows phones .

They can capitalize on this and be the phone that dips it's hands in all the cookie jars. That was the big reason why I was looking at it. Control over what I can do with it. I can use Microsoft, Google, or Apple equally as a choice. Not as integrated, but the system's hub really allows this capability to shine. That is the biggest strong point in BB10. Real time multitasking, and choice of ecosystems. They need to capitalize on this. And work on the software that allows apps like Skype, instagram to be integrated into the hub. BB10 is for the person that likes a bit of all worlds. And have a choice on what part of that eco system they want to delve into.

Well, does it matter who becomes the 3rd? I don't think there is a golden rule that only 3 can survive. Imagine if the market share is divided equally between 4 players, then it doesn't matter. I think the focus is whether BlackBerry 10 can continue to grow and sustain, isn't it?

I had a windows back in the day when it was mobile os 6 and it was awesome. They fell back because they stuck to the same thing then made a new platform, they have the right idea to centralize everything under one platform the way it should be done from now on to maintain customer interest. It's not easy when you don't have a platform that is not in tablets and phones. BlackBerry is a better platform but it will never be considered a competitor because it has fallen behind on almost every promise. That's why wall street laughs at it and shorts it continously, fallen promises make for a failed company and failed platform. I love my bb10 but seriously, cut the ish, market better and DELLIVER what is promised. BBM is already delayed, summer is not September FYI! (yes in fiscal quater terms but not summer ends august 31st in ours)

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It's will be a tight race but if BB stick to their strengths and leverages there enterprise connections they can claw out a distinct lead over WP. . . of course in the long run it will be consumer not enterprise appeal that will win it all and WP has that edge . . .

Enterprise Connections ? lol We got rid of BB Enterprise last year. BYOD is the corporate way now. BB is looking for a Buyer , For Sale, the last thing they are thinking about is leading over WP right now.

I started a job where I spend a lot of time in public, with really nothing else to do I chck out what phones people are holding in their hand. I am shocked how may iphones are out there literally almost everyone has an iphone... Probably close to 80% then 15% android (samsung) and 5% Blackberry with very few of those being bb10. With that said I have not seen one windows phone so I dont know where their sales are coming from. little disclamer those numbers are my opinion and not scientific in any way.

Toronto. Honestly didn't know there were so many sheep here, I mean the iphone is alright but its not that good!

Geographically its about 1.5 to 2 hours away depending on traffic. (Waterloo, Ontario)

I would have thought there would have been more BlackBerry Users....

Yes but Canada went GaGa over iClones. They got to a higher market share here than in the States. Android took longer to catch on here, so for a long while iClones and BB's were close in market share. BB's third now but they still hold a higher share here than they do in the US. Aaacckkk! To think so many Canadians are actually sheeple makes me very sad.

From my sweet BB10 Neutrino powered Z10 :D

It's no wonder you see BB10's...its the home country....
I just came back from Europe and I saw a lot of Lumias and not one single BB10 device and I travelled far and wide for a month...I did see some BB7's though...
Mostly I saw android and iphones

in that case, it's a good thing Europe is a bigger home market than Canada.
That said, "Europe" is not a country (despite the creepy euro-federalist delusions of Brussels) and WP varies from being surprisingly high in some countries (like Italy at almost 10%) to non-surprisingly high in other countries (like Finland, at 30% or so), to basically nonexistent, as it seems to be in Spain.

Windows Phone is gaining on low cost devices. People who buying low cost devices, probably won't spend money on apps. Albeit android lead, iOS is still preferred by devs due to higher revenue on apps.
I've played with lumia 920, not a bad device does the basic, but its boring and non efficient as communication device. Lets not forget about apps, BB10 will get Android 4.2.2 soon. Development for BB10 is much more convenient, its based on Qt framework and supports ActionScript, one of the best HTML5 support and of course Android apps. I'm using windows 8 tablet, mainly as good replacement for Win laptop (it has full desktop environment, so can run any regular windows app). But as a tablet its worse then Android (have this one wit JB), iPad (friend has) and even PlayBook (also have this one). If playbook will get upgraded android runtime (at least 2.3.3 as in BB10.1) it will beat "Metro" for sure.

WP Tiles will bore me after a day. Actually maybe a couple of hours. BB10 OS beautiful to use and look at. No comparison.

I've been using Win8 and WinPhone for a year. Still not bored. Annoyed at plenty of shortcomings and holes that MS seems to take their sweet time to fix, but not bored.

Do you think this bit of good news (considering the negative press layely)will be headlined especially in the US press? Of course not..

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