Are BlackBerry devices so good that they're bad?

By Team CrackBerry on 11 Apr 2014 02:35 pm EDT
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The quality and durability of BBOS and legacy devices are so legendary that they continue to outsell BlackBerry 10 devices still after a year of BB10's launch and, as announced, will stay in BlackBerry's handset business.

Why is this happening and what does this mean for BlackBerry moving forward? Some explanations are obvious, such as the lack of effective marketing by BlackBerry and support from network carriers for BB10 devices. But there are other not so evident factors that are leaving BlackBerry followers puzzled about the decision to continue BBOS and legacy devices. Let's take a closer look.

A business undoubtedly pushes the sales of their most profitable services and/or products. In BlackBerry's case it's BBOS devices and BIS services. The 2013 Q4 earnings report reflects that around 2.3 million BlackBerry 7 devices were sold compared to only 1.1 million BB10 devices. In addition, their service revenue brought in 546 million dollars respectfully, but BIS represents 80% of this. But should we really be surprised at this? No, if you set aside BB10 marketing, carrier relationships and the transition to BES.

I agree it's a lot to set aside, but how can anyone logically expect a fully featured, well established OS with reliable BIS service and arguably the best quality made mobile devices to simply "die out" or transition to BB10 so quickly? You can't. This expectation requires a perception adjustment. BB10 is awesome — and still in its infancy stage — competitively beats out other iconic mobile operating systems in certain regards. If you step back to realize that the current version of BB10 only reflects the beginning of its potential, it enhances the excitement around it. But BlackBerry still has a long road ahead of them. Currently, BB10 is not making significant revenue for the company; BBOS is. Why would we expect any business, let alone a greatly challenged BlackBerry, to abandon any kind of profit? It doesn't make sense — especially if BBOS is still in demand by clients and customers.

I live in New York City and I see countless BBOS devices. It's no surprise that people love them. My mother recently retired from the Department of Education and reluctantly had to hand in her work issued legacy device. That damn phone was still running OS5 but it worked well and she loved it. She actually visited a Verizon store to inquire about purchasing a similar device but was disappointed at the choice between a Z10 and Z30 (Q10 for whatever reason was not on display). Aside from the pro-Android/iPhone sales associates, the BB10 dummy units on display didn't help. Needless to say she walked out with a basic Samsung phone.

I live in New York City and I see countless BBOS devices. It's no surprise that people love them.

If you've been following BlackBerry for a while you're already aware that the 9900/9930 (Bold) devices are still hailed by many as BlackBerry's strongest device to date. This should go to the Z30 but given its limited availability, low sales, and that most people aren't even aware of its existence, almost makes it irrelevant in conversation.

Whenever I get the chance, I engage in friendly conversation with people that have legacy devices, and it seems the common denominator among them is that they find it unnecessary to upgrade or change presently because the devices still work well and are holding up strong. This had me thinking, because I can't recall any mobile device outside of BlackBerry that has made reliable & robust phones that last for years (Nokia perhaps?). It's almost standard nowadays that smartphones have a typical usage life of about 2 years before faltering in one way or another. But whether mobile devices are created that way or network carriers are finding ways to keep customers under contract is another topic altogether.

Are BlackBerry legacy devices and BIS services stunting the growth of BB10 and BES because of how well they've been built? Could this be a case where something good is actually bad? Maybe. But then again, where has a reputation for making strong reliable products and services ever hurt a company? Major transitioning for any business has always been a challenging and costly maneuver. There are companies that have never survived one — not to mention those who were never able to achieve the kind success they once had — Blockbuster, Motorola anyone? BBOS and BIS are keeping BlackBerry financially alive (for now) as development and innovation for the company's new services and products continues to evolve at a rapid pace. CEO John Chen has clearly mapped out the four divisions within the company and their individual roadmaps for the upcoming quarters.

Part of it is the continuation of BBOS sales and BIS services, as it well should be. The decision is a no brainer and should not be judged. Whatever the case BlackBerry is generating money. It shouldn't bother shareholders, fans or followers that there is a financial plan in place to keep BlackBerry relevant and profitable. BB10 and BES adoption is nowhere near where it should be, so why should they constrict themselves when they can stretch things out for the meantime? BlackBerry should buy as much time as it can while continuing to develop their divisions. BB10 and BES12 (soon to be released) are superior in every way and remain the future of BlackBerry, no question. I suspect that when the Z3 is released and later this year, the Classic and whatever other rumored devices, along with the OS 10.3 update, that there will be an appropriate marketing strategy in order but designed for specific markets. John Chen has spoken about maintaining and building strong relationships with carriers and partners, which will be key if BlackBerry hopes to be successful in anyway.

Be encouraged enthusiasts. BlackBerry is running on all cylinders and will continue to fight with everything they have intelligently.

The decision to focus on emerging markets with low-cost devices such as the Z3 and the enterprise market with high-end devices like the Q20 — both catered to demand — is the only move BlackBerry can afford to make right now but also, most importantly, plays into their strengths. This is a very necessary and healthy move if we hope to see BlackBerry's cash flow return to profitability. If you think about it, the strategy — though simple — is elusively clever. Instead of jumping in the middle of the highly competitive and costly consumer market and blowing everything and trying to compete with other corporate giants who can afford to burn hundreds of millions of dollars, BlackBerry is approaching tangible markets on opposite ends. Trying to compete in the consumer market right now would be trying to ice skate uphill. If BB10 adoption proves to be successful in those two markets, then what we could possibly see in the long run is a "squeeze" on the market spectrum with BlackBerry having a reasonable influence on both enterprise and emerging markets respectfully growing closer to the highly competitive middle consumer market. Of course this is too far away to tell if it can be executed but it's a possibility to ponder.

In the meantime it's a good sign that anything BlackBerry is making is still selling even if it's BBOS devices and BIS services. We all agree mistakes were made in the past few years with BlackBerry management, products and services but hindsight does very little in regards to foresight — save for what not to do and what doesn't work. Be encouraged enthusiasts. BlackBerry is running on all cylinders and will continue to fight with everything they have intelligently. Let's just hope when everyone in the world with a legacy device is ready for an upgrade, that BlackBerry will be in a position to offer them a better home than the last.

Article Written by Jubei Raziel

Topics: BBRY Editorial

Reader comments

Are BlackBerry devices so good that they're bad?

413 Comments

How come no one ever thinks about price?

Not the price to the consumer. But the price to the carrier.

BBOS devices use older cheaper technology. They can therefore be sold to carriers at significant discounts to Z10's etc.

US carriers don't want to sell BBOS devices because of the subscription costs and efficient network usage, and they don't want to sell Z10, Q10 etc because they're a premium phone and they make less money.

So they sell people Samsung. Mostly low cost phones (to the carrier) and they make money selling data.

Elsewhere in the world LTE etc isn't near as common so older BBOS devices are still useful to prevent network overload etc.

Again with the price conversation.....

Price to carriers is no more of a premium than any other premium smartphone. Apple, Samsung, Sony, HTC. The difference is DEMAND for the device...Apple refuses to offer any kind of discount or at least major ones...Samsung is right behind Apple. So there isn't this wholesale carrier discount folks keep alluding to. Carriers need smartphones to get customer from competing networks onto their networks where the actually make money selling consumers data service and value add around it.
The demand of premium iOS and Android devices mean the manufacture DO NOT have to discount in order to sell their product. In fact as case in point...US carriers are now offering Samsung S5 for $199.99 on contract and giving another one for FREE! Is anyone really going to argue that Samsung is giving a brand new model...that they spent millions of dollars developing and millions more marketing to the carrier for free? HELL NO....the carriers are absorbing the cost of the device in line item because they make up the cost and MUCH MUCH more in the next group of line items. And they do so at a PROFIT.

BB10 devices have extreme low demand, let alone when compared to other premium devices. Not because of poor quality, UXI, etc...because believe it or not BB addicts...most people haven't heard of BB10 devices nor what they can do in comparasion. We can go back n forth debating who's fault and why that is. Its irrelevant to this discussion. The fact remains until BB can greatly increase consumer demand for their devices the carrier DO NOT have a financial incentive to push (market) them, let alone offer any discount to the consumer.

Welcome to the CrackBerry nation...already can feel a much needed fresher tone and vibe...

If demand us so high for Samsung why do they need to lure customers in by offering a second device for free?

Posted via CB10

That's the carrier not the manufacturer.

At $40, $50, $60 a month depending on carrier and plan, it becomes a pretty simple matter of giving away a portion of the cost of a device and making it up over the life of the plan.

Posted via CB10

If they sell a bb10 phone they make the same money on data as they would from a Samsung or apple product.

So by your reasoning the carrier shouldn't care which device you buy, so long as it is a good consumer of data. And discounting ANY Data consuming device makes sense.

There is a big hole in your reasoning. The reality of the situation is different, obviously, and the reason it's different isn't described here.

Posted via CB10

Again BB 10 phones are not in demand compared to iphones and samsung s4 s and s5 s. Period!!! That's why carriers are not wasting their time in promoting them bec of no demand.

 Posted via CB10 on my  Z30

BlackBerry should have sold direct to consumers and enterprises from the outset at reasonable prices. The wireless carriers should have been relegated to providing data plans and voice plans for the unlocked BlackBerry 10 smartphones.

Posted via CB10 on BlackBerry Q5

Wasn't that BIS, except BB spent no cash upgrading the servers or compression for the best part of a decade and Opera a free browser had better compression and data speeds than paid for BIS - "we'll dump it and sell what everyone else is with a new OS" ???

But how much did the carrier pay to buy the device?

That price isn't always clear.

What we do know is that Apple's margins were as much as 60% a few years ago. So pay $800 for an iPhone and the carrier was paying somewhere less than $320. Add in carrier markup and it's pretty clear an iPhone was selling to the carrier for probably no more than $250.

Samsung are now talking about selling an S4 at $400 off contract. So again, probably costing the carriers less than $200.

The Z10 on the other hand would have cost you $700 off contract when it was launched, and since carriers wouldn't sell the devices you can bet they cost at least $300. BlackBerry margins have been in the toilet, so whatever price they got it wasn't enough to cover their cost.

That's why BlackBerrys aren't selling. If BlackBerry could sell their devices to carriers at $100 (as some Asian manufactures are charging for Android devices), the US carriers would be desperate to sell them.

In any case we'll find out later this year.

Again folks...there are NO significant discounts to carrier by the manufactures! Apple DOES NOT discount there product...especially product with continued HIGH demand. It doesn't make common business sense. The carriers discount the phone to "give the device that uses the system away". They are NOT in the business of SELLING phones...they are in the business of selling data access and value add services.
For the life of me I'm not sure why folks can not seem to get basic point. Put it another way...razor blade companies sell guys blade handles in a package of introductory blades at HUGE discount. Meaning the handle device is discounted or free to the consumer. The reason is the business is generated on the fact that to USE the handle a consumer needs blades...blades don't last forever so the same consumer will REPEAT buy the blades. If the margins of the blades are high enough...loss on the handle will be recovered. I don't have to give a dissertation on the average margins on blades in order to get this basic economic fundamental thats been around since the early 1900's.
Similarly, carriers pay cost...or cost minus to the manufacture on VOLUME sales. Any discount offered, IF AT ALL...is based on agreement from carriers to purchase ahead of customer sales...X number of units at said cost. Carriers know...to attract the most customers...you have to offer the HIGHEST DEMAND devices...and even more attractive to the customer is if you are giving a perceived discount on the latest devices. IE, $199.99 on 2 yr contract versus paying fair market value of $825 for Samsung S5. Why? because...carriers are in the business of providing access to data and value add at a PROFIT! Not breakeven. So any cost to the carrier to acquire the device minus revenue derived from the sale of the device plus revenue derived from agreed data plan= A BIG ASS PAYDAY for the carriers.
BB's problem was lack of making a device...ON TIME...and MARKETED...that the consuming public WANTED in HIGH DEMAND! Period. So blackberry could GIVE the device away to the carriers...and BB will still NOT see sales anywhere near Samsung or Apple...because most consumers DON'T WANT them! If the carriers even at zero cost can't drive business into the door with a BB device...why would they spend value resources pushing the sale of a device their customer clearly are not interested in????
I'm not sure what else to say to make this basic business point hit home for some folks....

I never said Apple discounted their products to carriers (though their margins have fallen of late).

Let's simplify.

You're a retailer. You sell Oranges and Pears. From the orchard the Oranges cost you $1 and the Pears $2.

But consumers pay the same price $4 for both fruit because they're price sensitive.

A customer walks in your store and says "I'd like to buy some fruit".

Would you sell the Oranges or the Pears? Oranges of course, because you make $3 per fruit sold.

That has been BlackBerrys problem for the last few years. They're priced to the carrier the same as Apple (i.e. premium priced). But most consumers don't want to pay premium prices for devices, so walk away with Android, because selling an Android device improves the carrier bottom line.

Some better off consumers, impressed by Apple marketing or because they think Apple products are "cool" or are stuck with iTunes, pay the premium price and buy the iPhone. So Apple still retains about 40% market share, with the balance being mostly Android. Research shows Apple is dominant in wealthier areas.

The big change over the past few years is that because BlackBerrys are no longer seen as cool (and no amount of marketing will change that), they now compete with Android rather than with iPhone - but they charge the carrier premium prices like Apple. Naturally the carriers prefer to sell something else unless the customer is insistent (and sometimes not even then).

To make a dent in the market, BlackBerry devices will have to be price competitive to the carrier.

In the past BlackBerrys cost too much to manufacture and therefore were not price competitive, so carriers would not sell them. That should change later this year with the release of the Z3.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

How does that apply to Europe where Unlimited data for a fee is about to be normal in next few years, and Europe wide roaming with that data...

I fully agree.

I've been a BlackBerry fan for years, and since I got my Xperia tablet, I've come to realize just how far behind BlackBerry truly is. I know people gripe about the lack of apps, but beyond that, there is a clear difference between the BlackBerry UI and Android. Customization, options, etc...

I love the speed of the Z10. I really do. I love flying around this thing from one app to another, but at the end of the day, I'm so overly bored of it. I want to do things that side loading an app cannot accomplish. When the Xperia Z2 comes out next month, I'm done with this phone.

That being said, I find it hard to see a demand increase for BlackBerry do something drastic. I'll never hate on BlackBerry, but I'm done.

2671D7D7

You can try and customize the Android Interface as much as possible, but it will never run like a BB10 UI. BB10 is far too superior. HUB & PEEK are innovative marvels.

The issues with Android is its interface simply is dated, though iOS is worst. I rather have a fast paced Interface, that comes Superior right out of the box, and continues to get better and better with each and every update.
Most people are not Tech Savvy and don't understand how to customize Android. And to note, I personally find Android somewhat CHOPPY and lagging. I've used the Galaxy S4, the HTC One, and a LG Nexus. They all lagged here and there, though HTC gave a somewhat better experience overall.

Anyhow this is why we have choice.

Yes. Choice.

I haven't found anything choppy, but mind you, this is a tablet that I'm using.

As for being tech savvy, I agree. You have to be in order to dive into the depths of the customization, and that's right up my alley.

BlackBerry will always be faster/swifter. I still prefer huge customization option. And plus, I'd like to have a huge phone. That being said. Aside from the Z2, I'm eyeing up the Ultra. Word.

2671D7D7

Hogwash. I have a Samsung Tab 3 and a Galaxy Note running Android. I would take the functionality and stability of BB10 over Android any day.

Samsung dropped the price of its new S5 by ten percent just three days before its worldwide launch. And....."Samsung Electronics Co., facing more competition from Apple Inc. and Xiaomi Corp., is cranking up incentives for its Galaxy S5 to as much as $600 in freebies to defend its place as the world’s largest smartphone maker."

Yikes. I take it you've never run a business.

While it's true marketing does drive people to request a specific device, it isn't necessarily going to make them buy that device.

Apple has created almost a cult. In which case - yes - they can create demand.

But have you every bought anything because of Samsung marketing?

It will take you into the carrier store perhaps. But when there unless you're really certain about what you want, the associate will sell you the device that makes most sense for the carrier.

That's how business works.I will sell you what makes sense for me - not what makes sense for you - unless it makes sense for us both of course.

At any time over the past couple of years, if you went into a T-Mobile store and asked for a BlackBerry, then unless you insisted on that device, the associate would sell you something else. Chances are the same is true in Verizon and AT&T stores. Especially since all the major carriers were on minimum sales contracts with Apple in a saturating market.

The reason is simple enough. Other devices are better for their bottom line.

BlackBerrys problem is they grew fat while they were the only game in town, and didn't downsize fast enough when competition came along. So it's only the last couple of years they've been laying people off, even thought their sales have been sliding for four or five years.

The result is a higher ASP to the carrier.

iPhones have always been made in China, and most Androids also in low labour cost Asian countries. The result - lower ASP's to the carrier (except for Apple who just make a fortune). And so the carrier pushed Android devices.

I've used them all. I don't understand why anyone would ever use a Samsung device - they're weird. And Apples iOS is basically pathetic compared to BB10.

Obviously if you've only ever use iOS or Android, BB10 is going to take you ten minutes to come to terms with - which is enough to put people off in store. Assuming you ever get to use a BB device in store.

Later this year, chances are an LTE Z3 will hit US carrier stores at a low ASP to the carrier.

Then we'll find out just how much "demand" impacts what is sold.

There's demand for smartphones alright - but most people really don't care what kind of smartphone it is - and that includes BlackBerry if the price is low enough to the carrier.

What is your reasoning for this statement?

I think the comment is pretty much spot on, it definitely was what I encountered with my purchase of a Q10 @ Verizon in July '13. The sales representatives weren't familiar with the OS and tried to sell me something other than what I walked into the store for...and guess what...the marketing by BlackBerry of the features of BB10 got me to research the product and then make the purchase.

BB10 takes SOME time to get a BASIC feel for and then you definitely get frustrated using another OS.

I HATE the "Home" button and constantly having hit it to go anywhere on the phone and this was EVEN when there was NO BlackBerry alternative. BB10 was/is what I wanted even before I knew what I wanted.

Posted via CB10

2 other points...

First, the WAIT/delay for the Q in the USA was excruciating, sales for it started around mid-June or later, I bought my Q on 7/7/13. I was watching commercials for BB10 since March.

Second, the sales representatives were wearing BlackBerry T-shirts and pushing mePhones...so BlackBerry's ideas for Verizon in-store promoting were undermined...you can't totally blame BlackBerry for this.

One last thing...a new OS conquest sale was going to take a boatload of time regardless of ALL the marketing in the world...it was going to take a lot of "word of mouth" promotion.

Posted via CB10

Economics 101 says that demand can be increased by lowering price. The price of BB10 devices was ridiculous when they hit the market. They were priced at or sometimes above the newest iPhone and Galaxy models. Unless you have an affinity for the BlackBerry brand, why would you pay top dollar for one when there are major question marks with the app gap, company stability, etc. If they had priced aggressively from day 1, I think BB10 devices would have sold much better.

Posted via CB10

With all due respect, BB10 is a significant failure, forcing BlackBerry to rely heavily on old, outdated products that basically tanked the company in the first place. And you're now praising this action as "running on all cylinders..." I'd call that blind optimism. I'm all for being positive, but not naive.

BB10 wasn't a failure at launch but lost traction due to poor management, incompetence, and marketing. They relied on the devices to sale themselves with word of mouth.

Powered by my BlackBerry (Z10). Join my #BBM Channels C001227CF, C00476C37, C003829C9, C002454C9,C002190AC, C00120CE3

I also hear that the Z10 is picking up on sale in India.

Powered by my BlackBerry (Z10). Join my #BBM Channels C001227CF, C00476C37, C003829C9, C002454C9,C002190AC, C00120CE3

BlackBerry was a failure from day one. Sales never did anything in any quarter. There was initial press and buzz around the new launch, but it never went anywhere. There wasn't even one modestly successful quarter and they ended up writing off $1 billion in unsold inventory. I'm actually a big fan of the Q10 and use it to this day, but I'm not fooling myself either...

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

Ironically to BBrico's point above, there is actually DEMAND for BBOS devices.

BlackBerry doesn't want to make BB7 devices but their customers insist upon it.

And those products did not "tank" the company. If anything did, it was BB10.

BB10 was a crazy strategy. They were so busy listening to the "analysts" they forgot to ask their customers.

The result was an 18 month gap in new product launches, and when it came it was so different BlackBerry customers didn't like what they saw. So BB7 still outsells BB10.

I had to buy a BB7 device for a client recently, even though they have a Q10. Because they really don't like not having BIS and the trackpad etc.

John Chen is turning it around. When the BlackBerry "Classic" is launched it will be interesting to see the impact.

It's true that there is more demand for BB7 than BB10, but overall BB7 sales are still very dismal and could never sustain the company. It's just a testament to how horrific BB10 has been. And yes, those legacy products significantly contributed to BlackBerry's current situation, as they were uncompetitive for many years (just look at the historic drop in their stock price). The 18 month gap was a joke, and at least a couple of new BB7 devices should've been released in the interim to soften the blow. Everyone knew for years that BlackBerry had to transition their phones to QNX, but they relied on BB7 far too long and failed to execute on any level. I still believe that BB10 is a decent, competitive OS, but it was half baked at launch and is (as always with BB) at least a full year behind the competition.

With 10.2.1 I'd say BlackBerry 10 is at least as good as the competition. I love my Z30. It's easily better than iPhone 5 or Samsung S4.

But BlackBerrys brand is damaged and it will take some restoring.

If they can make the Z3 a big seller, that should go some way toward resurrecting the brand. It's a big IF but it should be doable if they can take the benefits of Foxconns manufacture costs and translate that into a price that is competitive for carriers.

Once they're moving devices again, the premium products will become more attractive and average ASPs should start to rise.

The reason BB10 did so poorly was because they took so long to kill the outdated BBOS that was giving BlackBerry a bad name as 'company that makes slow, out of date phones'.

By the time BB10 came out in 2013, no one cared about BlackBerry anymore, and BlackBerry's reputation as the 'outdated phone' company had been fully cemented.

To this day, most people think BlackBerry only makes slow out of date phones -- in other words -- they think BlackBerry still only makes BBOS phones. They don't even know BB10 exists.

BBOS should have died forever in 2009.

Posted via CB10

I think you've missed the point that BlackBerry sells more BBOS phones than BB10 phones.

And when overseas carriers were told the stock of 9900's had run out, they told BlackBerry they wanted more.

If all you want is a reliable phone that runs on 2G efficiently, and does email and messaging the 9900 is a very very good phone.

Don't blame BB10 for miss-management and garbage marketing. BB10 is superior to anything out to date. A basic fact.

A testament on how bad BlackBerry has marketed BB10 is simply this, people still look at BBRY as BB7 and don't understand that they have something new and much better called BB10.

Posted via CB10

And my response to you is nt300 hit the nail on the head. I am not saying that BB7 wasn't good..but BB10 outshines that and a lot of other phones out there, YET no one knows! And he is right that most think BB7 is the last thing BB put out. When someone comments on what phone I have- they are always shocked when I tell them and show them a little bit of what it can do. They respond- I didn't know BlackBerry was still making phones.

BTW.. Jubei Raziel - I am impressed with your articles so far. They are like a breath of fresh air- yet very insightful and informative. Look forward to reading many more of your blogs. Thank you.

So you're saying that BB10 failed solely because no one knows about it. Even Chen admitted that people didn't like it (hence why he's developing the Q20 "Classic" as a compromise), but you're apparently convinced otherwise.

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

The q20 aka the classic is for those hard core qwerty keyboard users who didn't or did upgrade to the q10 but found it too different from what they were use too. Especially not having the track and back buttons. That's why they're coming out with the classic for those users otherwise the all touch BB 10 phones (z10 & z10) are amazing phones. Heck even Apple took a few pages from BB 10's gestures in iOS7

 Posted via CB10 on my  Z30

$1B Z10 write offs is not what you think. Many devices sold and sold well.
It was when BBRY made the mistake and tried to put the company up 4 sale.

This caused confusion for customers, not to mention the Bashing Media by iSheaple and Droids spreading nonsense and telling all that BBRY is going bust. The other issue was THOR was not transparent at all. Offered 0 explanation and 0 reassurance.

Consumer response to this 4 sale sign was a massive BB10 device return rate. This caused overstock.

They did not over produce. The 4 sale sign should never have gone up.

Ineffective Marketing, high device prices and the 4 Sale Sign is what caused slow BB10 device sales.

Posted via CB10

camera531,
You may need to conduct a little more research and the reasoning behind the Q20 Classic, and why John Chen is releasing such a device. Your comment: """Chen admitted that people didn't like it""" is false, John Chen never said such a thing.

Let me clarify so that miss-information does not confuse people. The Classic is ONLY being released because hard core business personal are pretty much addicted to there physical keyboard BBOS devices and continue to like the Track Ball and the button rack.
So in order to reach this niche, John Chen plans on combining the track ball/ belt and integrate it into BB10. Combine the two for a select group.

Now that makes a lot of sense... These are only some of the top tech blogs in the industry and directly address what I'm saying. But yeah, meaningless...

That is where your problem originates. "Blogs," including this one, CrackBerry, are just sites of opinion no matter how you look at it. Unless you are keen enough to decide for yourself, many of the articles push you into a direction of thinking based on its existence. It's hard to find objective/non-fan site journalism these days. You were either sucked in, or either born into an era where it is all that you know to be real. He/she is right, your links mean nothing. Present a real source if you can find one. Good luck.

Posted via CB10

These "blogs" that "sucked me in" are reporting the news in this case. Direct statements from John Chen haven't been altered in any way and the facts are consistent across the board. If I posted something from Forbes or the New York Times, you'd just call them iSheep or hopelessly biased, etc.

My comment was clueless? How can Factual information be clueless? I think you may have misunderstood my point. No Prob. The other posters understood my point.

Posted via CB10

People know about BB10 and didn't like it. John Chen said that. CrackBerry editorials said that (and podcasts - maybe actually listen to some). Consumers said that. I'm not trying to be rude or start a fight here. I'm just well informed and not putting emotion into this. I'm stating these FACTS from a business standpoint, removing my personal opinions (which are positive for BB10).

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/...

http://www.phonearena.com/news/BlackBerry-CEO-admits-he-was-challenged-b...

http://www.neowin.net/news/blackberry-ceo-suggests-bb10-os-isnt-exactly-...

He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. He obviously is an Android lover so you will not get through his 'smoking blogs'

Posted via CB10

This is only your opinion. I use multiple devices and BB10 is not superior in any way.

Posted via CB10

That would be your opinion. I not only use multiple devices, I use one device from EVERY major mobile operating system in existence. Android, iOS, BlackBerry 10, and Windows Phone 8. I generally carry all of them with me, and use each almost every day. I've also used multiple older BlackBerry, android, and iOS devices. BlackBerry 10 most certainly is superior to EVERYTHING else for the reasons smart phones exist in the first place. The only thing android and iOS are better at is entertainment and time wasting, and WP8 doesn't even have that going for it.

I think we all believe that you carry 4 phones with you from all major OS's. Even though iOS and Android are only goof for time wasting, you still carry them. WP8 isn't good for ANYTHING, but you carry that, too. You carry FOUR PHONES with you, even though BB10 is so superior to everything else. I don't know about anyone else, but I believe you...

Would you like a picture of everything together, with your comment on the screen of my Z30? I'll even throw my PlayBook and Pebble in the picture if you want.

[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/sandman61377/media/IMG_20140412_213036....
I'm not the greatest at taking pictures, and the lighting's kind of poor, but here you go. That would be a BB Z30, Nokia 925, iPod 4th gen (keep in mind, I said devices, not necessarily phones. I've owned two iphones, and the iPod is all the iOS I need), and Sony Experia Z1s, along with my Pebble and PlayBook. Picture taken with my BB Z10 (used for BB10 OS experimentation)(Since I'm not really sure if I can embed on this forum, here's a link, too)
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee5/sandman61377/IMG_20140412_213036.jpg

Old devices didn't tank the company, they made the company a powerhouse. They just got old eventually. BB tanked BB, by not keeping up, and then when they eventually came out with BB10, it took over a year to make it reasonably close to worthwhile, and they didn't market it at all. And, it still falls short of features that legacy devices have.

Of course they made the company a powerhouse, but when they didn't evolve to stay competitive, they ended up tanking the company. The historic drop in their stock is a testament to that.

Nice article. Really hope that their new strategy works. I for one can say I miss many BBOS features and that trackpad but don't even bother trying to get me to switch from BB10.

And why are maldroid and ipeople always in our space? I dunno but the few post comments I read other than on CB, I didn't notice any of us there trolling. I guess they must burn with envy while trying to convince themselves of whatever.

#TeamBlackBerry will rise again

Photos captured using BlackBerry devices - C00016D81

Yes Jubei, welcome to CB.

As for the article, sight romanticised, seemed like I would write it, but would have expected more from a CB team member.

Some of the above/below comments are pertinent, would recommend to take them into consideration, maybe for an update version for this article.

Posted via CB10

"John Chen has spoken about maintaining and building strong relationships with carriers and partners, which will be key if BlackBerry hopes to be successful in anyway."

LOL. Look at his 'relationships' with the president of T-Mobile.
When the Z10 came out, TM was the first to advertise it.
They failed. (That is past history - before John Chen.)
Then, they dropped Blackberry completely.

It is very hard to find a knowledgeable carrier retail store sales person who cares to sell a Blackberry. Let alone, find a store that has them prominently displayed (maybe NONE).
Apple and Samsung are paying big bucks to promote their products in-store and out. Blackberry is not in the cash position to compete with them.

Maybe direct sale is the way to go, as evidenced by the increasing assortment of unlocked phones on the Shop BB site. Let us not forget, Apple stores are a major direct seller of iPhones.

Also, when you buy a Blackberry phone you must obtain a BB contract - a steady cash cow for the company. So, the selling of legacy (work-horse) phones is still a great opportunity for them.

I don't have a BlackBerry contract. That may have been the case on older phones, but I'm using my 2nd ever BlackBerry, my kids are using the first one. I don't have a contract other than the one for my carrier plan. I really wish people would stop saying you need a BlackBerry contract. It's simply not true.

Posted via CB10

Most people in the US buy phones, including BlackBerry phones, at subsidized prices on contract. You don't "have to", but most do. The 9930 is still available on Verizon, for example, and costs $500 off contract...

Welcome to CB too but let's address the article. It's a very long piece but fails to mention a key factor of why BBOS is still leading in terms of sales over BB10. You haven't looked at this from the customers point of view. By customer I mean the end user, the entrepreneur or corporate IT manager who makes the decision and who ultimately drives BlackBerry sales data. This typical customer wants phones that do email, text, make calls for employees and employers and they want it at a cheap price to keep overheads down. They don't want flappy saga or candy birds. The email on BBOS was very good too via BIS or BES with dedicated servers. Smooth. Efficient. Dedicated. BIS was better than BB10. I was shocked when I got BB10 and found my email to be sh*t. I though f*ck me, BlackBerry of all companies haven't got email as good as it used to be which was the reason for their success?? BB10 with the exception of aesthetics and some more outlook style functions has actually taken a step back in terms of email. Those of us who pound out emails in the business world and don't use BlackBerry for playing games/watching movies/music/general entertainment and browsing the internet (don't even bother trying to browse the net on BBOS!!!!!) will find that BBOS is still just as good for those key basic "phone" functions. Phone calls are just as good. Texting just as good. So...looking at this from a customer perspective who btw are the decision makers here and the ones who ultimately decide BlackBerry sales you can see why they haven't jumped all of a sudden for a device that just let's the classic corporate BlackBerry user play netflix (oh no wait BB10 doesn't have that)

Posted via CB10

And what exactly is wrong with email? The main use of my phone is email and I don't have a problem with it - far better than anything else out there!

Posted via CB10

The emails cannot search old emails spanning several months. I work in an email dependent business and trying to search old emails on BB10 really sucks. This was a major set back for me.

Posted via CB10

Have you installed a google apps business email address? Slow, doesn't work sometimes, clock image for not being sent. Back in days of BIS email was secure and instant

Posted via CB10

Strictly because they have not really pursued it. Even the US Government and the DoD have approved it, and they are notorious for moving very very slowly.

BB10 device as well as BES10 and upcoming BES12 are approved in many govenment agencies. In fact in most government agencies...BB is the ONLY approve device on their networks.

Sorry, meant not approved for purchase. For example, the Canadian government is waiting on approval to purchase new BB10 handsets but they must wait for approval first. In the meantime, they're not buying new handsets.

It is a question for the corporate IT's to pay more to upgrade from BES5 > BES10,
and then soon to come out BES12.
It is better for them to keep BES5 so long as it serves their purposes.

This is a good point. How many organizations are still on Windows XP? Lots! Businesses don't usually go right out and purchase the latest and greatest every time something new comes out. They can't afford to do so.

If BlackBerry sunsets their OS 7 devices and offers and cost effective upgrade incentive, it may likely move the needle North. The money shouldn't be in the handset. It should be in the services. A good example of that is Adobe pdf business model. Give the reader away.

Tombstone - Combat Vets Motorcycle Assn - WWW.CVMAFLORIDA.ORG

As I've already stated a few post north of this. Reporter has totally ignored the customers who decide if BBOS has more sales that BB10. Usability and needs which can be fulfilled perfectly well with BBOS along with the most important factor - costs.

Posted via CB10

Or it could be because no one knows anything about BlackBerry 10.

I would think a massive chunk of legacy sales are to people who wouldn't know BlackBerry 10 exists.

Quality Poultry - Channel PIN: C004B64D1

the masses dont know about OS10 because the z10 and q10 were overpriced for their feature set and app availability when it first came out last year versus the andoird and ios coutnerparts... Chen's plan to release the z3 at low end prices should increase adoption and visibility of the OS. At least, that's foreseeable the game plan.

Exactly....that was blackberry main mistake with the launch...you can't charge premium prices when you have zero major apps on the platform compared to the competition you got to grow your market share first then you can do that....the z10 should have been no more than 300 at launch off contract.....

A year later, still, you have to use Snap to have Android access to the many apps not available from BBWorld.

I never heard of anyone sell a BB OS10 phone simply by saying you can install the majority of Android apps by installing Snap.

I'm not sure about 'premium prices' in developed markets. The Z10 is relatively affordable at about $300, where iPhones are a few hundred dollars more and sell a bizillion times (plus or minus a million) more.

The z10's price was dropped in India. Better they sell reduced z10's instead collecting dust in the inventory.

 Posted via CB10 on my  Z30

Please let me in lighten you, because you're ignorance is very frustrating you don't need snap there are plenty of other sources that you download directly from the phone, as per your rant first and foremost I used ios and androids and can honestly say blackberry is better (the simple fact that it only takes me seconds to respond to you is amazing (word prediction) that really speeds up my life and makes me look great because I now respond to all emails really quickly...the only thing I can fault blackberry is on marketing that my friend is a huge failure....so my suggestion to you is please inform yourself of every you write about but if you are to lazy or have a hidden agenda please don't voice comments like this because it just shows your ignorance........ thank you

Posted via CB10

"A year later, still, you have to use Snap to have Android access to the many apps not available from BBWorld."

Amazon Web Store or One Mobile store apps both are fine on BB10 and you don't need to do anything special to install.

I think it is a challenge to entice/attract the laymen (and women) from the other 2 platforms to bb10.

The average lay-person typically downloads apps from only Apple's Appstore/Google play. For those on the iPhone, they typically don't have a jailbroken phone, and the Android user, that all they have is already on Google Play.

It is still extra work/knowledge that they would rather forgo to hunt for apps on 1mobile/aws or using snap instead of the supposed BBworld as the "equivalent" to the other 2 OS equivalent app stores. They wouldn't like the "hassle".

I know most of the people who are on CB who are alike me - I have no issues digging around on wherever I can find an app that meets my needs from any of the 4 methods - of course I would prefer a native BB10 version of such an app so I would look there first.

You don't NEED to install Snap to get Android apps. You can go to the Amazon appstore site and download their app at http://www.amazon.com/gp/mas/get/android.?tag=crackberryb-20&m1k=d_cb You can also get apps directly from www.apktrain.com, or 1mobile.com. Just make a folder on your home page and put all three of the above in it as your source for Android apps. If you don't want to load Snap you can get plenty of them with the links I listed. For a few minutes of your time to install Snap you will get a BlackBerry World-like one stop experience to find, download, and install the Android apps you want.

Posted via CB10

You are correct, not many people know about BB10 and how far superior it is compared to the competition.

When I talked about BB10 at my work, people told me it's the same old, but never tried it out.

When I actually showed them a demonstration with my Q5, it BLEW them AWAY in OWW.

Posted via CB10

I have run into the same thing. When I show or tell people what my Z10 can do they are very impressed and they wonder why they haven't heard anything about it.

Posted via CB10

Which we all agree that it is, however the key masses don't know about it. It is to late to market these devices because the other platform are now upgrading. I know we still will be competitive even with their upgrades, but we should wait until our next device is about to launch and market it like hell. People will then take notice of the phones and think they are still new because it is new to them. They need to creatively market that the "app gap" has closed. Have a commercial showing of core features and then have an app like instagram, candy crush, vine, etc. on a users phone without promoting the app on the platform directly. People will notice and inquire.

Agree, these devices are still practically "new", and should be marketed as such.

Hard to imagine what BB10 will run like on a quadcore or octacore.

Zzzzwiped from a Zedevice....

The competition can upgrade all they want. But there's so much you can do with Android and iOS. They are on there last legs and only have Marketing Power to keep them afloat.

Fortunately for BlackBerry, its BB10 interface is not only Superior, is not only 2 years ahead of the competition in terms of technological advancements and innovation, but, is the ONLY mobile Platform capable of going beyond Mobility.

BB10 is the future but no one knows about it because:

BlackBerry stayed with legacy BBOS too long.

So by the time BB10 came out, NO ONE cared about BlackBerry anymore.

If they had killed BBOS in 2009 then things would have been totally different.

By as early as 2010, legacy BBOS devices had given BlackBerry phones a reputation as slow, outdated devices.

Instead of killing BBOS, BlackBerry kept it alive up to 2011 (with BB7), and then they didn't release any new OS until BB10 launched a full 2 years later (!) in early 2013.

But by then it was already too late.

Posted via CB10

I agree, so many people I know jumped ship and went to iPhone because they were fed up waiting for BlackBerry to launch a new phone!

Posted via CB10

My recommendation was to completely replace BB7 and utilize the PlayBook interface for the time being, while BB10 was being developed behind close doors. If anybody hasn't used a PlayBook before, you may want to give it a try, I find its interface much better than iOS and Android, due to its powerful multitasking ability and speed.

My point, this would have given them ammunition long enough to fight off the competition in time for BB10's glorious launch.

The length was fine because the post was intelligent. I actually appreciate when the articles are longer and contain more information/opinion. It leads to better discussion and food for thought.

This seems like a thought out, longer forum post and I like it.

Posted with a Verizon Z30 running 10.2.1.2228 and CB10. [URL="bbmc:C0004F9BB"] My channel with zero subscribers [/URL]

Agreed. Not too long. Interesting that many of the responses are equally thorough. More so than the comments on shorter blogs.

Aka S.Jizzle Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2141

Very true compared to Android and iMore. CB has a great community of BB loyalists who very intelligent

 Posted via CB10 on my  Z30

The title is almost like a joke... I'm all for being positive, but this was written just for the sake of writing something "positive". And in a very long, rambling kind of way.

I'm hardly a "troll from Android Central". I just happen to be using an Android phone at the moment. And whenever someone says anything you disagree with, they're automatically a troll...

You have done nothing but slag BlackBerry off in every post ( and there have been plenty of them) I am fully aware of blackberry's faults but I feel they get enough of a beating from everyone else these days so why don't you take your negativity elsewhere?

Posted via CB10

I get what you're saying, but it's not negativity... It's reality. I haven't made any false or outrageous claims.

Crackberry has been pushing out little 300 word posts on the daily just to keep content count up, so it's refreshing to read a "piece" that's meant to stimulate deeper thinking.

GREAT post and I look forward to more.

Posted via CB10

Agreed!

Posted with a Verizon Z30 running 10.2.1.2228 and CB10. [URL="bbmc:C0004F9BB"] My channel with zero subscribers [/URL]

I totally agree!! Lots of reasoning in his post and I honestly didn't understand that flip side of BlackBerry's issues.

Man United 4life!!!!

I enjoy BB10, but the fact remains that it is still a very immature operating system. There are all kinds of bugs with this thing that I deal with every day. Most are extremely minor. Nevertheless, every single time one of them pops up it reminds me that it is not yet anywhere close to the old OS or any of its competitors.

My wife has an iPhone 4S equipped with iOS7. That thing is far from perfect. Apps constantly shut down while she is using them. The phone gets choppy and needs to be reset often. iMessage is supposed to send a regular text if it can't send through iMessage but often it just times out and no message is delivered. Repeated efforts to send messages delivers the same thing. When trying to avoid cell charges, this is a problem. For an OS and product I keep seeing as JUST WORKS, I call BS. Legacy BB's just work. They work how they were intended to and work extremely well at it. You can message and email and browse like a mofo on legacy with just a hint of gaming. Exactly how it was designed. iOS was designed as a music player/fun factor phone and has slowly added some semblance of messaging and "multitasking" since then. But by no means would I say anything about it "just works". I say as I always have, without apps, the iPhone is a terrible phone. Mediocre at things that real messaging platforms excel at. I understand that a smartphone depends on apps to do a lot. But in terms of all these companies switching to iOS or Android for business blows my mind. My wife's company recently switched from BB's to iPhones and most hate it. The messaging is atrocious for their business. And it cost them a fortune. They switched because many of her bosses liked and used iPhones in their daily life. So without regard to how that would affect anything, the switch was made. Apple has the iPads and all that other crap, but that doesn't always mean it's best. Android is cheaper by far and would have everything they need. BB10 is just over 1 year old and has come a long way. Hopefully 10.3 comes soon and brings us closer to all the features that we took for granted in legacy OS devices. It will never be completely the same and that is good. A little change never hurts. Until then I can live with the few hiccups this phone has.

Posted via CB10

1000000% Agree......BlackBerrys work as intended because they are serious communication devices & as you said they just work.
Is nothing more frustrating than have some employees with a toy phone emailing me multiple times because he is unable to send multiple attachments in a single email.
I just cannot understand why the hell BlackBerry did not & does not market their phones so the largely ignorant masses can appreciate what a real communication device is.

For me this is like Madonna & Norah Jones.......Madonna can't sing or dance or act but yet she sells millions in music & shows.
Norah Jones is truly one of the most talented contemporary artists but ask any moron with beats headphones on if they know her & most likely the have not.

Posted via CB10

The diss to Apple, Madonna, and Beats headphones. Around here, we call that a Hat Trick. :) Well played.

Posted via CB10

I also live in NYC and the only other BBOS phone I've seen in ages is my friend's Q10. People are always shocked when they see my Z10 and realize it's a BlackBerry, as they've never seen a BlackBerry phone without a keyboard and didn't even know that these exist. Definitely poor marketing.

US T-mobile. Z10. 10.2.1.2228

Really? I see them all the time on the subway and especially at work. The only BB10 devices I see are Q10's and they're really only in the hands of executives. Most everyone else still has a 9900 or occasionally a Curve. I've seen a Z10 once on the morning 4/5 train

Posted with a Verizon Z30 running 10.2.1.2228 and CB10. [URL="bbmc:C0004F9BB"] My channel with zero subscribers [/URL]

Do you see may Windows Phones? In Canada I see a lot of BlackBerry phones BBOS and BB10. I never see Windows phones. I see quite a few androids, but nearly everyone has an iPhone. I call it the toilet because everybody has one.

Posted via CB10

I've seen more BB10 devices then Windows to be honest. Not like that's saying much but still... I see mostly iPhones and Galaxy's and the rest are very low end Android phones. You can see lots of phones here on NYC subways since people are usually playing music or games during their commute. It's a pretty good gauge of device adoption when viewed over time in my opinion.

Posted with a Verizon Z30 running 10.2.1.2228 and CB10. [URL="bbmc:C0004F9BB"] My channel with zero subscribers [/URL]

The Bold's 9900 camera is likely the biggest reason I left for BB10. If it had auto focus, no need to leave.

Now that I've used BB10, took difficult to go back. The software is quite good. But for communication, still loved that Bold.

Posted via CB10

Same as me, I went to the 9790 because of the camera on the 9900 and now happy on Q10. My favourite BBOS phone was the 9700, good battery, good camera, durable, good signal. The 9900 was very pretty and had a nice keyboard but missed terribly on the above mentioned items. The Q10 is by far the best BlackBerry for me.

Posted via CB10

Bad marketing implies that had a marketing strategy. I find little evidence of this. Everybody should try a Z10 or a Z30. Perception will shift fast.

Posted via CB10 on my sexy white Z30 rocking 10.2.1.2947

Till the features of BlackBerry OS are brought fully functional to BlackBerry 10 this will persist, I mean also BIS services as well. The older devices are also very well built, I have devices that still fully work decades later, so for many small medium businesses it's a case of "why fix it if it ain't broke". The marketing of BlackBerry 10 has been abysmal and BlackBerry has done little to correct many mis conceptions and perceptions of the new devices. They allowed many Tech sites and paid reviewers of other platforms to perpetuate the lies. Till this is fixed we will have more of the same. For example the perception that the learning curve is difficult etc. The company also needs to reach out DIRECTLY to the consumer. Being aloof and out of touch with customer problems and issues needs to be addressed, hopefully they will realize this as they are now selling direct. The Carriers have little interest in fixing that problem and it's time BlackBerry takes the bulk by the horns and deals directly with those issues. Allowing third parties to dictate their destiny is detrimental to them at this point.

Posted via CB10

The funniest thing I heard from a 98xx user is that she paid for a bunch of apps she loves and been told they won't work or are unavailable for BB10. She feels that blackberry went out of its way to run android apps but ignored a legacy runtime. Don't know how true that is amongst the masses.

Posted via CB10

Pure and simple. Not getting the word out about bb10. Saw a lot of advertising around super bowl time,but when is the last time you saw a BlackBerry commercial. Imho.

Posted via CB10

JD Powers did a survay that found that BlackBerry had the LOWEST Customer Satisfaction our of eight brands they tested. Apple was the highest at five stars. BlackBerry only got 2 stars.

I kinda trust JD Powers more than a few peoples first hand experiences.

BBOS is selling well
1) Coporate customers using BES5 that don't want to invest in upgrading.
2) Developing markets where 3G isn't all that big, much less 4G. So the 2G Browsers and experience on the BBOS devices isn't noticeable. Never mind it is the fact that BBOS has BIS and is CHEAPER on a monthly basis for many of these markets. They can by a BlackBerry data plan with 100MB and it fits their current needs fine.

I think if BlackBerry does away with BBOS w/BIS most of their customers in these developing markets will disappear right along with BIS.

I think they need to take out the Blackberry name. Too many bad things associated with it. They have a strong product though.

I've thought that since the day they changed the company name!

Should have kept RIM and made a new brand for BB10. Keep BlackBerry for legacy devices.

Posted via CB10

BIS is cheaper in the emerging markets!BIS costs 15 USD on monthly plan with unlimited downloads . BlackBerry 10 phones on the other hand hogs a lot of data for the same downloads on the same period. Yes pricing and marketing are other important factors but data charges compared to BIS are on the higher side.I have seen 3 people selling their BlackBerry 10 smartphones to get back to BlackBerry Bold 9900.

Incurable Q10 Syndrome

I see the Q5 and Z10 selling on Ebay like crazy. I left android because im tired of the touch screen freezing or lagging, the 4 hr battery life from internet use. The talk time is excilent up to 10hrs but, most people are doing face time, texting or internet communication from apps. So, blackbery legacy performs like a high end Android for less than 600.00 retail US dollars. Im hooked with the qwerty keys. 6 yrs ago, i would not try Blackberry, the browser was outdated and, the UI. The blackbery market didnt offer what i needed. Today, a whole new story.

This is true.. in this side of the world (south east Asia - malaysia,indonesia,thailand,Philippines), price and monthly data fee still a major deal maker or breaker. Here in Kuala Lumpur malaysia (yeah.. we're famous now due to MH370) you can still spot a lot of people on the road with old bb9900.

Blackberry marketing team need to clearly understand - IMO - there are 2 distinct market for BlackBerry - 1 for gadget freak or show offs.. and another 1 for those who get the best device for their need and stick with it for few years. I own BlackBerry since the blue 7290, and upgrade it to most of the new models that come out. Compare to those who change phone every 2 years, we stay with the model at least for 3 yrs.

Most company here still issue bb9900 as a standard corporate phone, and it's a global policy. BlackBerry marketing or enterprise team really need to push or give incentives/promos to company upgrading to new BES10 or 12. Make it easy for them to upgrade both infra and device.

For now - I will hang on to my bb9900 as company issued device and Z30 as personal device. Not that I like to carry 2 devices but there's simply no option to get my company email onto my z30.

Z30STA100-2/10.2.0.1521 from CB10

Wow. This here highlights the current battle for Chen. BlackBerry may eventually have to settle with a two prong plan where they keep producing BB10 devices along with the legacy type. Micro managers will certainly lean to the more cost effective conclusion (re data). As a prosumer admittedly this causes me to question my choices moving forward. With regards to cost of living on the rise I'm definitely going to consider those factors so that my children can get a good start in life. Every penny saved counts and I can see this on a virtual pie chart where production of devices should follow a 60/40 (legacy/bb10) approach imho.

Man United 4life!!!!

They made a big mistake for not using BBOS user interface for bb10. Fancy bb10 GUI is a failure that made BB10 mot selling.
In addition, there were significant costs associated with new BB10 GUI, including the delay. Now it is too late and they destroyed RIM with their stupid GUI innovation.

Great article this dude is on fire, and it has a lot to do with carrier support and marketing are issues as well

Posted via CB10

Great post! Totally agree about / with the strategy and think Uncle John has ideas up his long - range sleeve about which we know nothing.
Guess he finally lost his cherry with the media's penchant for turning anything BlackBerry related into a big, giant negative headline. They milked it really hard to get him to say that, yes, if handsets were entirely unprofitable, he would sell off, then left out the crucial part where he said he does not see this happening.
American Media = disinformation 101. And, of course, the rest of the world follows suit.
So, now he knows.
For the last three - four years, zit - faced kids in phone stores have been telling me BlackBerry is bankrupt. The information super highway is the modern equivalent of bathroom stall graffiti.
End rant.
Good post.
Kirk out.

#IchooseBlackBerry10

Posted via CB10

Our company took almost a year to set up/test BES and BB10. Now that we have gone live , I am seeing more and more new BB10 devices everyday. IPhone was also being tested, but not seeing anyone taking an IPhone ;-)

Country and # employees?

I have also noted that government agencies in Canada have begun to issue BB10 phones. Very encouraging!

Posted via CB10

When you put it that way, if old BBOS is so popular for whatever reason (I say it's the device itself) maybe the way Chen is going makes sense. Stick with the somewhat same style phone and just change the OS. Then when those customers get accustomed to the new OS, they'll want to venture out to a different style of BlackBerry phone. BlackBerry was not only wanting people to change to a new OS, but to a new type of phone. Some people just don't like change and doing all that at once can be overwhelming. I transitioned to the Torch so that helped. But I was still nervous about going to an all touch phone. Did they ever email or text those individuals specifically on BBOS that BB10 was coming? I don't recall if I was notified. Maybe give them an app to practice on to see if they would like it before committing to purchasing a new phone. I now think Chen is on the right track and can kind of see his vision. He has to have his products appeal to all users. I hope it works!

Thoughts put into words with my Z10 running 10.2.1. ;)

I was just thinking after reading this, why not spend a little time and money, push out a new OS for BBOS phones that looks a bit more like BB10 (obviously I know the whole bb10 hub and everything couldn't be put on) but give it more of a bb10 feel and then when people are due upgrades or their phone breaks (being a blackberry I'm guessing in a few years) they'll be accustomed to the bb10 look and might even think a q10 or the classic when it comes out is just a updated version of their old phone

Posted via CB10

Because that would be a LOT of time and a LOT of money, if it could even be done at all, and also because BB reassigned or let go all of their BBOS developers more than 6 months ago. Even though another run of 9900s is going to be made for enterprises still on BES5, actual development of BBOS ended about a year ago, and isn't going to be restarted.

Some thoughts...

All my BlackBerrys had the white screen of death and the Q10 has quality issues. I've never considered a BlackBerry to be particularly robust.

BIS is pretty basic in terms of features, compared to what's available on other platforms, but it's usually offered on decent plans, so people don't mind the BlackBerry tax. BlackBerry should have been smart enough to offer BES cloud as a BIS replacement from the start.

BES12 is not soon to be released. Another 2 quarters will pass before this happens.

The Q20 won't be high-end. It will probably get the job done, but everything points to a repackaged Q10.

Most people are afraid of change. Non-geeks don't go to a mobile shop every month to see if a new phone could better fit their needs. They simply try to buy something which works the same, because migrating data, finding apps and learning a new system is always a pain.

In developing countries, people reaching the end of their contract take a look at low-end Android phones and find out that they usually offer a poorer user experience than BlackBerry OS, so prefer not to switch. If they had the money, they would go for a mid-range Android. That's what has happened everywhere else. The Z3 is a good counter-measure because people will at least evaluate that new platform before jumping ship.

"In developing countries, people reaching the end of their contract take a look at low-end Android phones and find out that they usually offer a poorer user experience than BlackBerry OS, so prefer not to switch. If they had the money, they would go for a mid-range Android."

A year ago, this would have been absolutely true. But over the last year, the quality and performance of entry-level no-name Android phones has gone WAY up while keeping the prices rock-bottom. We're talking $159 quad-core, 1GB RAM, 4.7" 720p, 8MP phones. And the Moto G is priced only a bit higher but is a brand name with some better-quality components. This has driven Android adoption to frenzied levels in places like Indonesia and Malaysia. The Z3 is exactly the right idea, but as usual, BB is very late to the game, even in those markets. At least the BB brand image isn't nearly so damaged there, so there is at least some hope.

I wish there would be BIS for OS10.
I really miss having it - especially when I'm outta my country.
Before OS10 I had a monthly data traffic around 300-500MB, now I'm between 1,2-2GB.

I live in London and my personal phone is the Z10 and my work supplied phone is a new 9720. I work for a very large company. I know BB10 is way better in most way. But all my company is interested in is email and calendar synchronisation. Nothing else. And they are as tight as a ducks bum so they won't change until forced to!

Posted via CB10

Is the low sales of BB10 devices due to great legacy devices? Maybe, but I'm no expert. I will say this, though. I've seen many people buy Samsung S series phones and as soon as a newer one comes out, they sell their present ones and buy the new ones. Now, why do people do that?? Well, one reason may be that Sammy advertises everywhere and they try to come out with improved phones every year, even though they may not be totally worth upgrading to.
I can understand all the financial issues with BB. However, they must come out with higher end spec'd phones. I've been using my Torch 9800 for two years now. Sure, I could upgrade to a BB10 device. I haven't yet simply because I want a higher spec'd phone than what's presently offered. But that's just my personal reason.
I've been to stores in Milan and the shopkeepers don't know anything about BB, let alone BB10. You should hear some of the things they say to customers. Marketing here in Italy has been nearly zilch except for one or two stores that debuted the Z10 when it first came out. All you see here is Android and IOS advertised on T.V., nothing ever about BB. When I went to London two years ago BlackBerry advertising was everywhere you turned!
So, I think a lot of the sales issues with BB10 can be attributed to poor marketing and lack of advertising as well.

Your mother probably would have bought a Q10 or even BB7 device had the store carried them. We have to online to get BB devices.

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Or had a certain offspring of hers intervened. You can't leave your poor mother in the hands of the kiddies in the verizon shop.

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We can only hope that they have some very strong marketing plans in the works for the Z3. If they could figure out a profitable way to offer a "trade up to BB10" program, that would likely help immensely as well.

Great article... I love the point of view. Keep it up, I look forward to reading more of your articles! Welcome to CB!

Great article thank you. What you said actually makes a lot if sense. Also you should get your mom off a Samsung and back on a BlackBerry.

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My BlackBerry Curve and playbook was an stronger combo than my z10 and my playbook are.....

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Definitely! I use my PlayBook with my 9720 all the time, but never with my Z10. I really do miss the connectivity.

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Its just a marketing issue and, market development. People on BBOS/BIS still upgrade to other legacy devices in the past and, today. The problem with BB10 are, they dont look Blackberryish except the Q5,Q10,koppi and, the coming i believe Q30 or 3. People miss the trackpad as a option. Lastly they dont appear durable like the legacy devices. If RIM took a break from new devices, worked on promoting them and, app development for business and social, they could gain new and ex RIM members. I came from android, tried windows, symbian and iphone. I now have a 9310 curve, its my first blackberry owned device. I believe RIM would get the responce they want from consumers if they focus on marketing and, app development.

Change is the largest issue. People don't like change. The BBOS phones are well built and very familiar to most people.

When you look at how phones have evolved over the last few years, Blackberry issues have been browser and app based but as far as durability goes, they are ranked as one of the best devices. You can pound emails out fast, reach messages and just be productive with them.

Many people I have spoken to have the same comments. They use BlackBerry for work, usually a bold or curve device and they have a ios or Android for play. They know how the software works and they just use it.

Now comes bb10, I personally think it's one of the easiest software to use but most people don't want to learn anything new. Since they already use ios or Android, they may just as well switch to what is familiar as a work phone.

To summarize, you are correct that the older BBOS are well made, durable and familiar. This is why I believe BlackBerry should keep the keyboard version phones with the old software layout but use the new BlackBerry 10 software for the browser and integration features . This will give them the user interface they know but with a quicker and better experience. The all touch phone should be what we currently have with BlackBerry 10

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It's ok to allow BlackBerry 10 OS to mature a bit more and then go hard on a second bb10 launch so to speak, but 10.3 is the cut off. At that point bb10 should exceed BBOS. Particularly because the Classic will be a direct evolution of the famous Bold. If that doesn't win the hearts of any one whose ever loved the best of OS 7 devices then I'm not sure will.

I think all touch Z, and no tool belt Q devices are less welcoming.

Aka S.Jizzle Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2141

I thought there was a lot of advertising in Canada, not to sure about other parts of the world, but I also thought that the advertising was terrible lol

Posted via my  Z10.2.1

Most of those people aren't "choosing" BB, but rather having BBOS chosen FOR them by their employer. It's not like hundreds of thousands of CONSUMERS are buying BBOS (in mature markets) - those are almost all enterprise sales.

Now, in emerging markets, the BBOS buys are overwhelmingly consumers, but they're buying BBOS because the phones are cheap (they're all older models at this point) and BIS plans are cheap. But now that many countries are offering cheap 3G plans, and fairly high-performance entry-level Android phones are available, BBOS sales are falling quickly even there.

I know several people with older BlackBerry phones and like he said simply are not interested in getting another phone. Like one friend said I've had the same house phone for over 10 years and their company has had the same phone system since the early 80s , why should she get a new cell phone every couple of years?

Posted via CB10

I live in South Africa. Bring BIS or something similar even at a higher expense to BB10, and for sure BB10 will sell. I have the opportunity to buy a z30 buy why should I spend the same amount of data purchase for it when I can also have a Samsung or iphone and spend the same amount? Something must be unique to blackberry especially when these 2 guys already dominate the market.

I wouldn't even call bb10 devices as anything differently. Just still the same BlackBerry with updated OS. I don't see kikat android device's low market rate now are considered as total failure of android.. Why putting ourselves into standard others don't even do??

For the same reason, absolutely nothing wrong with keeping support, building BlackBerry 7 OS powered devices..it should be a good news because bb7 devices are all paid off and cheaper to develop as well (less hardware demand)..

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When BlackBerry10 dropped last February I had pre-ordered my z10 from Virgin Mobile canada, the sales people were kind of shocked because they didn't even know what it was, fast forward to yesterday and I had gone back to check out promotional plans that they may have going on at the same location I pre-ordered my z10 from and the sales associate asked me how I loved my iPhone, I kind of got mad but realized that it looks identical to the iPhone and couldn't really get mad with her , but rather told her it was a BlackBerry z10. She said she had a BlackBerry Bold 9900 and was iffy about the new os10 and had heard a lot of bad reviews about them and I had to show her how the os has evolved to a better more fluent and functional system then past os systems.

I'm an avid fan of blackberry and have told family and friends that if blackberry were to ever go under I would go back to my old Motorola razer, not Android and definitely not IPHONE, but blackberry needs to work on promoting their new os and work on getting a few more big name apps on here before they get to far deep in a hole that nothing will be able to bring them back to life.

They have 4 os10 phones on the market presently soon to be 5 why not do a old to new commercial, a BlackBerry 10 phone only commercial with all 5 showing what they can do, like these are hopefully some smart people working in blackberry and should work on something that moves people to be like wow that's blackberry I need to go and try one, u don't know maybe I just care to much for a product that doesn't really seem to feel the same as me maybe not only time will tell

Posted via CB10

it's marketing failure. they focused so much on bbm that forgot to market, the Hub, the keyboard, the fluid gesture based OS. they didnt market the Z30 great battery.
and they didn't keep the price low as per specs compared to market trend.
it turned out to be massive marketing failure.

Posted via CB10

Legacy exists because it works and works well. I noticed something similar when I went for jury duty, tons of legacy devices. Great article. Thnx for joining the CB team.

I agree: 1) BlackBerry devices are high quality and are made to last, 2) BlackBerry OS7 devices are popular because they are high quality (I know because I had the Torch 2 which is excellent), and 3) BlackBerry OS10 devices haven't sold as well as they should despite being well designed due to lack of marketing (I know because I have the Z30 which is amazing).

Posted via CB10

Or could it be that the BlackBerry devices are so DAMN good that people. Don't feel a need to fix what isn't broken

BBBYMUTHAFUCKINGCHOICE

Interesting. I have a z30 and z10. Both good phones, but z30 is better, mainly for battery life. I always liked the bold 9900 though I never had one. I think it looks and feels better than the q10. But bbos is not nearly as good as bb10 and we should not confuse hardware and software. Bb10 is just much better for the user. No question. Now for the entreprise it's quite a different story. If the enterprise wants to please their employees that's one thing. In North America a they will buy an iPhone. But if they are concerned about costs that's an entire different matter. Bbos is the cheapest phone for the enterprise. No question. Look at the cost structure. IOS or Android or bb10 are big data users compared to bbos. That is why companies still buy bbos. For this reason bb needs to segment the market.

Posted via CB10

BlackBerry is the only approved handset in our organisation which uses literally thousands of Curves! I've had mine for about 5 years and it's going strong still. Wish I could use my Z30 though

Posted via CB10

Jubei - well written and thoughtful piece but certainly painted with an enthusiast's brush (which is absolutely understandable). I take NJ transit and the NY subways every day and I agree that I see a lot of BBOS devices. But where I strongly disagree, notwithstanding your mother, is that people have them because they love them. They have them because their work issued them one and in their other pocket is almost always an iPhone or an android device which they spend the bulk of their commuting time using after a quick check of their work e-mail with the BB device. And when their company lets them use only one device, like mine did, most people ditch the legacy BB device, in my experience. Now it may have been quality, durability and security (or cost) which led their companies to issue BBOS devices in the first place (and it certainly makes sense for BlackBerry to keep on exploiting this income source) but I am pretty sure it is not love of the device which explains their longevity in these parts. Of course, your arguments could be perfectly valid in emerging markets where people may truly love their legacy devices. The only thing I can't figure out is why, if globally everyone loves the older BlackBerry devices as much as you say, was the company declining before BB10 was introduced? Do you think the company could have survived just maintaining the pre-BB10 status quo?

Hmm, now that is something to think about! "Dear BlackBerry, your devices are so good,...work so well, and are so secure,...less and less reliable minded,...quality minded, and security minded folks do not want one. To cure this ailment, you may want to consider designing and engineering crap!...From a happy-unhappy user "

Posted via CB10

I purchased my first BlackBerry in November of 2013. I like my Z10 so much that I decided to buy a Q10 last week. I will never give these, I will use them until they or I give out!

Posted via CB10

Build quality isnt that great. Of the small pool of z10 users I know most have speaker issues and Q10s have "sensitive keyboard" issues. Having to deal with the carrier only that normally dont have bb10 devices as loaners is a mistake as well... I was offered a curve as a loaner. Why isnt blackberry dealing direct? Carriers are adding to negitive experiences.

Also, why isnt SNAP pre-installed... the guys in my office in their 50s and 60s that are loyal don't have the confidence to attempt this. Then again, most think apps are stupid and useless.

Posted via CB10

That's something that has crossed my mind, with the Q20 coming out potentially this year. My Q10 is just fine I really don't see a need to upgrade it to the Q20 even if it does have a "utility belt" or bigger screen. Never understand the reason for updating a phone every two or so years.

The only reason why BBOS is outselling BB10 phones is because of the price. BlackBerry Curves are so cheap that people would buy that! Bundle it with cheap BIS service its a perfect match. I will bet you.. if u made a CURVE BB10 keyboard style.. plus make it cheap.. I bet u people would choose the BB10 rather than BBOS! Foxconn should have built a cheap Blackberry "Classic" phone.

Posted via CB10

Welcome to Crackberry Jubei! I can already tell I'm going to enjoy your posts and appreciate you sharing your insight with us.

Posted via CB10

Welcome Jubei to CB but your reply - I am gentleman. A Q10 .. made me laugh .. I mean, now a phone decides the individuality of a person? Lol

Fantastic Article. Thank you! 4LIFE

I was not born with a hunger to be free, it was only when I discovered that my freedom had been taken from me that I began to hunger for it. 4life Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1925

The quality of bbos legacy devices has soured so may people that they migrated to other phones and wouldn't get a BlackBerry again if you paid them. I talk to people all the time who had a BlackBerry just a few years ago, but have no idea just how good the new phones are. They just assume that I have a buggy, slow and appless phone because that's what they were used to and ran away from.

He posted from his sleek Z30.

Outside of diehards, no one is interested in BB10. Sorry but that is the truth.

Z10 had many returns in my country, phone just isn't reliable.
Q10 owner told me, she can't get anything done in a hurry on her phone. Loved her old BBOS7 phones even when I tried to convince to go Android, note she also uses an Ipad.
More NATIVE apps still available on OS7 than OS10.
The country was huge on BB but many ppl still haven't heard of the Z30.

Why would I buy a BB10 phone to use BB10 apps and Android half twitchy apps when I can buy an Android device? That's what the average user tells me.

BB phones still don't look jazzy, honestly they look dull. Most other phone manufacturers at least have varying colours. Don't get down on me about it, this is what will sell a phone, NOT DOD SECURITY! :)

Will await some feedback, I like this thread.

Z30 is a real nice looking phone. I have had Z30, Z10 and Q10 and have never had any real problem with any of them. But I agree, BB didn't market the Z30 at all.

Phone wasn't reliable due to the faulty early operating system. I bought a launch device. I had troubles as well. With every update my phone got better and better. I had faith and stuck with my device. I can't ask others to do the same. The sales persons selling these devices are all about making the customers happy. They feel like you pay for a 600 dollar device it better work or bring it back.

Posted via CB10

Can a hybrid device be developed which encompasses both techs? BB7 and BB10?

I know it sounds crazy but if they were to harness the power of a BB10 phone with the power of BB7 elements that everyone loves can this be possible?

Wish it were possible.

Posted via CB10

If you sell a 150-200 BB10 device and market the heck out of it in emerging markets, no one will want want a BB7 device. The BB7 can be had one the cheap where as most people can't affors a new Z10, Q10 or Z30 in those markets. But the truth is most people in those markets dont flip phone every 6 months like North America either.

I agree with what you posted , I have the Bold 9930 and won't upgrade until the Q20 becomes available. The Q20 is what BB should have offered as an upgrade from the legacy device. When I go into a Verizon store and pickup a Q10 and compare it to my Bold 9930 , the 9930 just fells like a better phone, I hope BB can get me to switch to BB10 with the Q20.

Very good article.

About the only thing I disagree with is marketing. Not just from the aspect of advertising, but the fact that very few people even know about BlackBerry 10 devices. Your mom walks into a store, asking about new BlackBerry devices and was unimpressed with the Z10/Z30 lineup. Did she know about the Q10 before going to the store? The fact that the store didn't have a Q10 on display, and the other devices were dummy units just adds to the lack of information customers have about the new devices.

We, as people who visit this site on a regular basis, know about the new devices, the new features, the differences, and so on. The general public? Not so much.

What has BlackBerry done to let the consumer know about the new devices? Have they shown off the new features? Have they done anything to let people know how productive BlackBerry 10 can be? Or the differences between legacy and new devices? From what I've seen, over the past year, they haven't done anything to actually try to sell any new device.

They are great phones very few people know anything about. The differences make people leery to move from legacy devices. The fact that sales people try to sway customers to other devices, don't have working models, and have had very little training(and very little to get excited about on the new devices) just adds to the lack of sales.

Marketing is just a small portion of that. The lack of advertising, the cut in sales force, and all the other lack of attempting to make sales has really added to the lack of sales. It's really difficult to sell something people don't know about. You would think that a company fighting for their survival would actually fight for their survival.

Not only that, why will take it so long for a Q20 device? An upgraded Bold 9900 running BB10? 18 mths? WTF by then the iphone 6 and S6 will be out.

The design of BlackBerry has to change.
We have seen enough concepts to see the design possibilities.

Create the a 'Design a BlackBerry ' competition. The prize Foxconn will make your design.

BlackBerry needs to embrace this.

The way of doing things has to change .

If a device is coming on a certain date it has to be that time. NO DELAYS.

Time to use guerrilla marketing .

Subliminal messages change the BlackBerry name transfer to just BlackBerry start up symbol with a small 10.

Get the price right on all devices. BlackBerry is not in any position to dictate anything.

So suck it up. And get to work.

BlackBerry...Get it done!!!!

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