Apple vs. Samsung - Jury finds predominantly for Apple

Apple vs. Samsung
By Bla1ze on 25 Aug 2012 01:00 am EDT

Unless you live in a cave, you no doubt have heard about the Apple vs. Samsung case by now. Although it's far from the end the jury has reached a verdict in the U.S. with Apple now, depending on how you look at it, coming out on top.

In the end, Apple was ordered to pay Samsung absolutely no damages while Samsung was ordered to pay Apple $1.05 billion. Along with Samsung found to be infringing upon Apple's design and utility patents, they were also found to have diluted Apple's trade dress.

While none of this pertains to RIM right now, it has the potential to affect the whole smartphone industry in the long term. When we posted about the new 'blogging' patent from RIM, many spoke out about how broad it seemed and in this case, Apple used many broad patents against Samsung so we have to ask, what do you all think of the case and the outcome?

If you're looking for some further insight into it all, be sure to keep an eye on iMore and Android Central over the next few days.

Reader comments

Apple vs. Samsung - Jury finds predominantly for Apple


They're all sue happy. Our "sponsorship" of the devices help to pay all the lawyer fees to say "I did this before you" for their perspective client..

And watch out BlackBerry. This could also have ramifications for RIM, as BB10 borrows from the best of the other three operating systems. Pretty sure there is grid of icons in BB10 that the user could swipe horizontally, for example. A really good thing at this point is RIM has time to change BB10 to avoid possible litigation.

Oh God. The tech press and blogs are so stupid.

Does anyone really take this verdict seriously? Yes, we are supposed to beleive that a jury from San Jose, is going to have the final say here? I think not.

if the judge doesnt throw the verdict out, it will be appealed to the supreme court where Apple"patents" will be laughed out of Washington.

Honestly some of the patents are equivalent to patenting a wheel that when turned steers a car, so um yes everyone except Ford, needs to halt making cars.

And if you don't believe that, then bye bye Apple. There were touch screens long before Apple came a long, does it really want to face lawsuits itself? No more iphone, No more iPad.

All of these patent are just crazy and the supreme court will kick Apple and all of these other tech companies in the teeth for trying to limit competition through rediculous patents, and they'll have no jury to F things up.

Rest assured RIM, MSFT and Google will do just fine, as will samsung. Can't Apple, the most valuable company in the world really claim its been harmed? No. Will enforcement of some of these patents harm competition in the tablet/ computer market? You bet. For this reason, at the end of the day Apple hasn't got a hope in hell of winning anything meaningful.

Remember getting a patent is damn easy, nto much more than filing it.

Surprise surprise Apple won. Of course this is gonna have ramifications for RIM. Everything Apple does touches the world in some way. Its like Apple is to the 2010's what Microsoft was to PC's in the 1990s. When you have the financial clout of having stock that's worth over $800 a share everyone in the world becomes your toilet paper. Good point about RIM having time to change BB10 if nessasary. Can you imagine what Apple would do to RIM in a lawsuit? Bye Bye RIM :-(
Playbook, the one and only

Ya Blackberry will have its day against Apple. BB10 will see to it :-)
Playbook, the one and only

Lately I have been wondering about the size and scope of RIM's patent portfolio. Depending on the strength and breadth of their legal team all throughout their early days it has to be strong in the smartphone business. Then they have gone onto BB10 to catch up with all these upstarts who usurped them I fear in a bid to catch up they could have 'copied' something.
Lets face whilst patent wars leave a bad taste in you mouth Samsung did cross the line a tad too much.

Playbook and Blackberry may be in a slump now, but I think BB10 is going to single handidly save them.
Playbook, the one and only

Many of the patents should not even be given in the first place. Rounded corners on a phone is a ridiculous patent. It's like putting a patent on having 4 wheels on a car. Oops, I think i just gave apple another idea.

Your wrong. The jury did not find any patent to be invalid.

This pisses me off...not that I expected samsung to win (they obviously are infringing on "bounce back" patent) Samsung showed in court prior art for almost all of Apple's patents & yet the jury found them valid!

I think would have been less upset if the jury had atleast pretended to have considered the questions. They were given 109 page instructions and 700 questions to answer. They completed all that in about 900 minutes. Most of those questions were quite complex, heck some of the questions would have taken a minute or two just to figgure out what they were asking, & yet the jury descided them all in an average of 1.2 minutes a question :mad

I was surprised also with how fast the jury came back with a verdict, considering the amount of evidence they had to go through. Either they were so bored with the trial, and said "Screw it, let's give it to Apple so we can go home", or there are a bunch of free ipads, and iphones that will "mysteriously" show up at the jurors homes. ;)

There is billions of egg every morning cocking...but who have the first patent on this? Nike make the nike free sneaker and there is. Mny other do it too....i never read that there is patent problem.... Or who make the first toast bread square design????? Apple have to mutch people invest momey on apple stockmarket....let s call it MAFIA?????? People like Aplple who fait so mutch for this thing have dirty hands too...sorry even i have also an ipad 3 if Balckberry make a biger playbook im back to playbook..then i have again a full blackberry setup...

It's good because it's just some charity to the Apple fund which has been on going since ages. Samsung has gained much momentum to be stopped by petty issues.

I never would have thought, and neither do I think Samsung did anything wrong to begin with. At this point, everyone should get sued, for any reason.

That may be so, but I was wondering the same thing... Maybe now, to protect themselves from such issues in the future, they may want to consider licensing BB10...

Why? It was about the design. It was not about the OS. Licensing BB10 would not prevent another design law suit.

I personally think it's kinda crazy. Yes, there are similarities, especially when you look at the crackberry comparison post the other day. But what scares me is the potential precedent this has set in the court system. It pretty much opens the door for everyone to sue everyone on design of slab type phones. I think this could just be the tip of the iceberg if it doesn't get over turned by appeal.

I'm going to patent my shoes tomorrow. I would think the court system would have some concern about at least appearing to be ligament, but what do I know.

Samsung owes their current success they enjoy today to the foundation laid by the Galaxy S from 2010. That device WAS a blatant rip-off of the iPhone 3GS.

So while I admit that the newer Samsung phones don't have that much similarity to any iOS device, Samsung DID steal in 2010...and they deserve some measure of punishment.

As a retaliation, Samsung should stop shipping their parts to Apple and see who gets the last laugh.

Seriously though, it sounds like the Jury was siding Apple in this case given that Apple is an american complany. The odd thing is that the Jury went through all 700 desisions in just 2 days. Am I the only one who finds this sounding fishy??

"As a retaliation, Samsung should stop shipping their parts to Apple and see who gets the last laugh."

Clearly Apple. Penalties for nonfulfillment are pretty common and Apple has some backup suppliers, too.

I read somewhere it makes up half of Samsung's revenue. But I agree... If I owned a business and was in court against my biggest customer, lost a collosal lawsuit to them resulting in a PR disaster, I'd do anything and everything I could to screw that customer, no matter the losses.

Apple won in a US courtroom, why is anyone surprised. Now the South Koreans got it right and agreed with both sides and banned sales of both parties products for 3 months. This is a pathetic case and my only hope is thatbif it comes here to the UK common sense will prevail, though i doubt it.

I know that this is case is about more than rounded corners of the phone and the icons BUT is still akin to patenting wings on a plane. What I want to know is on what points Apple actually won this case.

Ok found my answer in the Huffting Post.....

"Patent 381 covers smartphone's ability to drag documents, rotate by twisting, and zoom in by pitching, court documents show. It also covers the bounce that happens when you scroll too far in a document. Patent 915 covers how we scroll through documents using one finger. And patent 163 covers the tap-to-zoom functionality found in Google Maps and other map apps.

There were also two design patents Samsung willfully violated (No. 667 and 305) and one unwillfully (No. 087), according to the verdict. Patents 667 and 087 cover the exterior of the iPhone. Somehow, Apple was able to patent and successfully defend a claim to phone that are rectangular with rounded edges and rounded backs"

And from wired.....

"What patents does Apple say Samsung pilfered?
(Note: Not all Samsung devices named in the suit are alleged to breach every patent listed below.)

The 381 patent (.pdf) covers touchscreen interactions, including dragging documents, multi-touch, pinch-to-zoom, twist-to-rotate and that nifty little scroll bounce when you’ve reached the end of a list of items.
The 915 patent (.pdf) covers technology for how to use an API to let users scroll through documents on touch-sensitive devices.
The 163 patent (.pdf) covers touchscreen tap-to-zoom and navigation features.
The 677 patent (.pdf) covers the general outline and “ornamental design” of an “electronic device” that appears to be an older-model iPhone.
The 087 patent (.pdf) covers general outline, or “ornamental design” of an “electronic device” that appears to be an older-model iPhone.
The 889 patent (.pdf) covers the general “ornamental design” of an iPad.
The 305 patent (.pdf) covers the “graphical user interface for a display screen.”
What patents does Samsung say Apple infringed?
(Note: Not all Apple devices named in the suit are alleged to breach every patent listed below.)

The 941 patent (.pdf) covers mobile phone 3G capabilities.
The516 patent (.pdf) also covers mobile phone 3G capabilities.
The 711 patent (.pdf) covers MP3 playback technology on a mobile device.
The 460 patent (.pdf) covers a “communication terminal” that functions as both a portable phone and a camera, and which can send, receive and display images.
The 893 patent (.pdf) covers a method for remembering a user’s place in a gallery of images."

So reading these.... If this verdict stands the touchscreen smartphone market will be closed unless your willing to licence these patents from Apple. The UI patents will effect nearly all Droids and by the looks of the BB10, in fact any touchscreen device.

I think this opens a veritable Pandora's Box. I don't know my history, so I'm not sure if Apple licensed or bought the idea from xerox; but icons, mice, the concept of a GUI in general, all started somewhere. Patent law has gone completely crazy, it is no longer about protecting the innovator, it is about how to squeeze out as much money as you can. I feel lawyers are now doing with patent laws what hedge funds did with derivatives; that is to take a well-intended idea and stretch it far beyond its purpose so that one can create the opportunities to exploit others.

I think this is a BIG DEAL!! It will effect Samsung in the future because they will be forced to change the way they are doing things. They will either come up with something even better, or be limited due to these patents of Apple. Samsung might be reaching out now RIM now so they can pay off this debt, but not only to pay off the debt, but to have someting that Apple doesn't have to keep them at the top.

So RIM could either join and help out with Samsung or take advantage while Samsung is down and get their spot back at the top with the release of BB10! Only time will tell...

Uhhhh what? Apple is Samsung Electronics' largest customer. Samsung supplies all of Apple's chips. 1 billion is nothing to a multi billion dollar company like Samsung.

This is probably good news for RIM in the short term as it makes Android phones more expensive, but bad news for innovation in the US. Apparently scrolling a web page and have it bounce back is worth a patent. What about scrolling a web page and having it not bounce back, is that also worth a patent? You can't say one is and not the other.

Dark days ahead for software developers.

Apple has not won anything but just lost some more respect. Garbage.. Best of luck US country folks.. Very soon it's going to be iUSA.

this case was bullshit and shows apples true scumbag side.

they are trash, they should be shot and pissed on, should be sent back to the roman days when they would be publicly crusified and castrated for their tactics of trying to dominate the market by bullying their competition out and creating poor names for them.

Samsung will forever be know as the comopany that copied Apple, when the truth is all features are coded and designed by Google, it is a google OS after all but why center out Samsung? becasue they are the biggest threat and they want to push them in the dirt the same way they did to the BlackBerry brand (RIM didn't put up a fight though they let their Java OS play out untill the bitter end)

bunch of stupid silicon valley apple nut huggers on the jury.. reminds me of the RIM episode from a couple of months ago.

So Samsung is found to infringe on 4 or 5 patents, has a massive marketshare, and is hit with only $1billion in damages.

A few years ago, RIM had far lower sales (than Samsung has now), the market was far smaller, and they were found to infringe on a couple of ancient patents, which were more ideas, but had to pay nearly $600m to a patent troll.

Seems RIM got shafted by the American patent system even more than Samsung just did.

I have a patent on the patenting system. I'm suing everybody... including myself and my family... And YOU for reading this.

Apple could use some S*** on their faces. I'd go without a tablet rather than having to buy an iPad. Arrogant pricks.
Playbook, the one and only

Mp3 playback on a portable device, so all older flip phone models and laptops (which is still a portable device if you incline to be as anal as crapple) can go ahead and sue apple now right? I had flip phones that had that capability long before the itoy. As far as rounded corners the first HTC touch running windows mobile 6 did alot of stuff apple does. I am amazed apple didn't copy the cube idea that phone had. This is just pathetic.

I could not care less what Apple and Samsung get up to, I don't plan on buying any of their products ever. If anything it just shows how "justice" can differ from one country to another. Let them sue eachother into the grave. When two fight, the third wins.

Apple makes me sick. Steve Jobs had blood lust when it came to the market. That company is run with nothing more than total global domination in mind. I know that every company wants to be #1. But Apple takes things way to far.


I have an iphone 4, my wife a Blackberry Torch 9860- we both consider the BB more aesthetically pleasing than the iphone. This could be very big news for BB- consumers may shy away from Samsung and Apple due to uncertainty of supply. Blackberry should move heaven and earth to launch the BB10 phones ASAP.

Still think that 'Playbook' is a stupid name- it has no relevance outside North American football circles, but I do like the Torch 9860/Playbook combo

Hell, BlackBerry invented the smartphone, now BB can sue them all and force them to stop producing anymore smartphones and pay a $200 royalty for each smartphone they ever sold.
I foresee a retro movement back to the feature phone with only one company producing a smartphone: BlackBerry. Aaahahahahahahahahahaha

I have an iPhone and the Samsung new phones are better than the iPhone. I think the lawsuit was stupid. Everybody is stealing ideas from everybody(ex. The swipe down for alerts, apple stole that idea). The iPhone innovation is at a stand still and Samsung sales are killing the iPhone sales. Retaliation is all it was

I'm not necessarily taking Apple's side on this but Samsung do copy/rip off or whatever terms you may want to choose, alot of their competitors designs. Just take one look at their NX line of cameras, they hold much more than a passing resemblance to Sony's NEX line. They really need to think about getting a new design team, for apart from that their products I must admit are some of the best out there.

I'm loving this. Samsung will appeal obviously. All the while the 2 companies will continue to negotiate an agreement to cross licence. The entire patent system is so broken to have become a farce. Does prior art not mean anything? This makes me even less likely to buy Apple products. Remember in the past when Apple was cool? "Think different." My asss. How about "I didn't think." The patent battles is such a nerd soap opera for the lawyers and companies to make out like bandits.

Please RIM get your BB10 goodness into my hands soon! BB and PB running 2.1.0.x are rocking my world just fine so get it right and many people will buy it. Get it slick and many many people will buy it. Get it perfect and many many many people (OK everyone) will buy it.

Go RIM. Many (most?) on this board are counting on you to save us from what we consider sub par OSes and devices.

Yeah Apple is being so godd*mned honest right.

Perhaps Mitsubishi should sue Apple as they certainly have a valid case since they invented pinch to zoom whereas Apple claims they invented. I just wonder if Apple will secretly send new iPads and iPhones to the jurors when the case is closed. "By the way, thanks for paying us that 1bil Samsung, now about those components we need you to manufacture for us...."

Actually puts RIM in a better spot as Apple's competitors will look to find alternatives without liability. When BlackBerry 10 comes up to speed early next year, the OS will remain attractive to those competitors that want Security and something based on a platform that was built from the ground up and not just an incremental point release.

This makes me sad. I'm really surprised to see how much hate for Apple there is now in all the tech sites I've been reading. I don't think this is going to go as well for Apple as they think. Although, that is just tech sites, we'll see what the average person thinks.

I wonder if Samsung will look to licence BB10 now so they won't be infringing on the software pattents...

I'm sure a higher court would throw out that b/s of a decision. The chair, table, window, tv, shopping cart, computer screen, etc around me all resemble a different manufacturer's product. Heck. There should be only one car maker and even one aircraft manufacturer because the internal combustion engine and turbine/turboprop engines have been replicated so many times. The jury FAILED the American people with that decision.

Calm down everybody the world is not coming to an end and the sky is not falling! Take a deep breath and relax. Samsung will appeal the decision and common sense will eventually prevail. Sure Apple's stock will climb based on the recent decision. People will then sell and remember this day as the day that Apple stocks peaked! However, like everything that goes up it must come down and down they will go.

RIM is in a great position and not really on the radar (IMO this is good as it distracts everyone while they have time to create a masterpiece).

So let's all be patient and let this Apple vs. Samsung thing play out. I know that we live in an instant gratification type of society---ironically created by RIM's push email, but let's just wait and see what happens in the next couple of weeks.


Obviously, Apple is no longer able to create and innovate, so now they just sue and litigate. This sets a very, very dangerous precedence: if a rectangular slab with rounded corners can be argued as intellectual property then we've only seen the beginning of Apple's reign of terror.

How such a dispute ever got argued in front of a jury raises many questions. How it was argued in front of a panel of American jurors is beyond comprehension; this trial should not have been held on American soil if an impartial jury was going to be found. I don't think this fiasco is even close to being over.

If Apple has won and is the only one that can make a smartphone with a touchscreen, then that just means that someone is going to have to build an awesome smartphone with a keyboard.

HMMMMMMMM, I wonder who could do that???

But then the touch screen was out way before Apple made use of it. And guess what, it was being used in a rectangular format as well. The patent trolls are probably talking to them already and it wouldn't bother me one bit.

As it turns out Samsung actually came out the winner. Why? Because at the cost of only 1 billion they got to copy Apple and make lots of money, they turn 1 billion every 2.5 days apparently and remember how much Microsoft paid for Skype? 8 billion.

Samsung wins, sad but true.

Your missing the fact that Samsung will now have to license from Apple for all NEW devices.

Given the size of the damages I would guess at least $20 per device.

Which makes RIM devices far more competitive. My guess is if RIM licenses BB10 for around that amount they may well have a replacement for Android.

I agree. On the other hand the fact that Crapple patented the SHAPE of a device, a rectangle with rounded corners, is ethically as sick as it gets. That right there is the first reason I will never ever buy anything from that sicko brand! That right there makes me gag. And if it could wipe my butt automatically, never ever.

After reading the comments, did anyone here even look at hte Samsung document that pretty much burried Samsubg in it's grave? They took and Apple and a Samsung Droid and compared the GUIs. They didn't say that we need to improve things. They literally stole the user experience from Apple.

For RIMM to get sued over BB10, Apple would have to show that RIMM cloned the 6 year old iphone user experinece, something we all knwo that RIMM is not doing.

This is great news for RIM.

Everyone is forgetting that RIM predates both Android and IPhone, and from very early on has had a grid of icons - long before Apple that's for sure.

It would look very bad for Apple to sue RIM only to be found to have copied RIMs design. Note that Apple hasn't yet tried to get RIM into court. Their beef has always been with Google.

The decision means Android phones will become more expensive for cell carriers to buy, meaning BlackBerry devices suddenly become far more competitive.

And BB10 becomes a far more valuable product to license.

The price you pay isn't what is important.

It's the price the carrier pays.

And they pay a lot less for Android phones which is why in North America they'd rather you walk out the store with a Samsung, HTC or LG than anything else.

th thing is android predates apple also. Google bought android inc. in 2005. even then every mobil phone that used icons always used a grid style, i remember my old moto which had a 9 icon grid and that wasn't even the first icon based device, so techincally Apple stole that idea from other manufactures not just RIM and RIM may have stole it from soemone else, man what a shit show of theives *rolls eyes*

this was a bullshit lawsuit with a bullshit otu come if it wasn't for north america's infatuation with iPhone this would probably never have happened, a jury always has a biased opinion weather its admitted to or not, the human mind can be corrupted

God dammit. As if the iPatent Troll couldn't get any worse. They should leave Samsung the fuck alone. Go after GOOGLE more or less, as google is a motherfucking monster. THEN we'll see apple get laughed, kicked, punched, shat on, urinated, chewed up/knawed on and puked out of court.

I am getting a bit concerned with the likes of BlackBerry 10 and any other device/platform/operating system. What the fuck are we supposed to do if they go after FREE OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE?!?!

Feel free to tweet/identi me on twitter or identica. @rootbrian_ & @rootbrian

And this is why I changed my major from programming many years ago. I loved programming, I loved the challenge of new ideas, but the general patents that hinder creativity and the sue happy nature of the world was a huge turn-off for me. Maybe it's wrong that in my mind technology and software should be ever growing, and patents should cover the code in which creates the way something is done as opposed to what it actually does.

Example, imagine if borrow films could patent a foe killing people in a variety of ways to incite fear within an audience.

This could cover a multitude of genres and suddenly u have to pay a license just have a villain and/or death in a movie due to many ways you can spin what's perceived as a villain and cause of death. It's one thing to have a trademark that people know you for, it's another to control the basic fundamental of something that is a necessity to even be sold. Can a tablet not be a touchscreen? What if a patent was filed for the use of the arrow key of a keyboard to manipulate the direction of an icon, or other direct interactions with objects on screen?

I can't wait for the appeal and hopefully the next level gets it right, and patent filing and approval become more stringent in the future.

This should not be a surprise to anyone. It would be like Rim suing Applie in Waterloo. Samsung will appeal and the outcome should be different. The doors have opened RIM launch your BB10 devices and poeple will buy.

I believe this come down to a political battle faught through patents. Apple showed Samsung and the world who the domaninate power is in the mobile computing space. This verdict can lead to many changes in the mobile landscape. There really is only one company that is safe and that is Microsoft due to their cross license deal. How it all changes it yet to be seen, but I saw apple winning this one from the beginning.

MSFT actually cheat on all manufacturers for their cross licenses deal. MSFT threat suing them that android OS to relate PC OS patent infringement, not Window Mobile or WP whatever. MSFT didnt won the mobile case but IS SCAM!

Clearly, apple sued Samsung to relate iphone and iOS patent infringement, not os x mountain lion.