BlackBerry CEO on BB10 for PlayBook: "It was one of the toughest decisions I had to make"

BlackBerry PlayBook
By Simon Sage on 10 Jul 2013 06:14 pm EDT
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We had some time to talk to BlackBerry CEO Thorsten Heins in Waterloo following the annual general meeting this week. High on our list of questions was about BlackBerry 10 not coming to the PlayBook. This was announced last week during the quarterly financial results, and the outcry from the CrackBerry community has been vocal to say the least. In broad terms, Heins said during the call that BB10 on PlayBook wasn't running as smoothly as they would like, so they decided to stop development. We had guessed as much; after all, the dev alpha devices ran BB10 way better with 2 GB of memory, so one can imagine how the PlayBook would have fared with 1 GB.

Obviously we needled TH about this further. He answered:

"That was a very tough decision to make. I could have done it, but you would have loads of comments on your site - 'How can Thorsten allow such a crappy product to be launched?' ... It was one of the toughest decisions I had to make because I knew I would break a commitment, but I also made a commitment to quality before that. ... I can't take the hardware back and provide them with 2 GB hardware. I can't exchange the part - there's no way to do this... I stand by the decision, as tough as it is. I apologize to the users that I couldn't get it done. What I did I did because I want them to have a quality experience with BlackBerry 10."

Thorsten went on to describe that even with features judiciously pared down by the BlackBerry software team in order to save memory for BB10 apps, the experience was still not good enough (he went so far as to make the case that if they had delivered BlackBerry 10 to the PlayBook, that users would be wanting to downgrade to the previous OS as the experience would be better). Make no mistake that BlackBerry fully intended to bring BlackBerry 10 to the PlayBook, that they worked hard at it, and that Thorsten personally feels bad that they've been unable to deliver what they promised. However, he would have felt worse delivering something substandard to the world.

It's not all bad news for PlayBook owners, however. We asked the BlackBerry CEO if they're considering any sort of loyalty reward for PlayBook owners to help maintain the BlackBerry love, to which he responded it's something they have been actively discussing and considering. 

If you're a PlayBook owner, what would you like to see from BlackBerry as a sign of goodwill?

Gerii

A new tablet. (And maybe a discount or something for PlayBook users)

Posted via CB10

DOCTOREVIL8

How about, 1 million dollars!

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Just Me

+1 to the ponies. How about opening the USB port so I can use it to load my Arduino sketches.

BruvvaPete

Have to get past the gargoyles first.

njrPTA9273

New version of the PB but I doubt it'll have the PB name since it didn't fare as hoped.

Posted via CB10 from my Z10 or PlayBook!

teddyb0

RE: Just Me Jul 11, 2013 at 2:28 pm

How about opening the USB port so I can use it to load my Arduino sketches.

teddyb0
What exactly would that involve? A software hack or a hardware hack...or both? It can't be too simple or some hacker would have done it already? I'm a noob when it comes to these things.

ThaMunsta

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS

BruvvaPete

Why do you have to wreck this? Have you no shame?

amp323

Agreed. I'd prefer they released to new ones. One 10 inch and one 7 inch. Or maybe exactly the same as the PlayBook with smaller bezels and more screen real estate?

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BBPandy

Yes, that's what I would prefer, a discount on a new BB10 tablet! I use my PB for reading books & playing games. I then use my Q10 for productive activities & communication. There are a number of BB10 games I would like to play on my PB

.....only prob is that it doesn't look like they will be releasing one any time soon :(

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IJKBB10

Yes a discounted price on any future BB products.

But still I would like them to at least update the browser and keyboard and maybe BBW if possible with jelly bean 4.2.2 support.

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wing2299

Exactly, so apps ported to BB10 can run on PB as well.

PostMortem

I concur.

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bbry4life

I would prefer they "leak" BB10 for the PlayBook. Those who want it can install it. If you install a leak you shouldn't have the right to complain about it.

Then release an official PB OS2.3, based on PB OS2.1, but with some elements of BB10, like browser, Android 4.2, and BB10 apps.

lorax1284

BB would redeem themselves if they did that, and the fact they're not really doing as LITTLE as that is irredeemable.

ianbordas

Apple also limits what updates get to be updated on the older models. They also need us the USERS to purchase NEW hardware to keep the business running!! I'm sure they will keep updates coming, hope they do bring us BB10 Browser + App Store + Better Bridge to the Playbook so we can at least enjoy our tablets more.

00stryder

Agree with everything except the Bridge; it doesn't seem to be a limitation of the PlayBook but a purposely placed barrier by BlackBerry on BB10 devices. The apps are already on BB10 but not accessible by the BB10 Bridge app, for some reason. It seems that BlackBerry has a different plan for Bridge moving forward.

Posted via CB10 on my white Z10 & lovin' it!

Qaxl

"It seems that BlackBerry has a different plan for Bridge moving forward."

An Unceremonious Death ?

morlock_man

It's the first step in developing their M2M platform.

00stryder

Lol, that's one way to look at it. No, it seems they don't want us to simply mirror our smartphone apps on our PlayBooks, which plays perfectly into Heins' notion that the experience they give on a potential BB10 tablet should bring something new and different for the user other than more screen real estate (vs. what many owners of both an iPhone and iPad complain about). As the other poster said above me, likely M2M is their projected target.

Posted via CB10 on my white Z10 & lovin' it!

taylorblackberry

Finally someone understand the market.

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xiaohuaxing

Not really. Ipads sell for 600+. Apple makes margin on hardware. New Playbooks will never sell for that much, they might not even be able to break even on the hardware.

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trwrt

The iPad 2 that was introduced right before the Playbook is getting an update to iOS 7.

BBPandy

Yea but apple uses software updates to force people to update their hardware. How many times have you seen people with older iPhone ect. that run painfully slow after an "update"?

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sk8er_tor

Plus, a lot of the time, new features are not added. For example, Siri was not added to older devices.

pididipop

This very true. I learned this the hard way.

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canderson85

The jump to ios 7 is nothing compared to the jump from PlayBook to bb10.

It won't work from a technical standpoint. People need to just accept that and give up the idea that BlackBerry OWES them bb10 on PlayBook.

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Live Remote Support

I agree 100% on the technical standpoint, my problem lies with this... What? Their engineers (hardware and software) didn't know you cant put an oval peg in a round hole before they said they could do it? They knew (or should have) this wouldn't work from the start... I guess it's easier (and more profitable in the short term) to go in with the "Beg for forgiveness" mindset and plan...

Xader

"They also need us the USERS to purchase NEW hardware to keep the business running!!"

Which is fine and dandy IF THEY CREATE NEW HARDWARE TO REPLACE IT!

They haven't done that, which is why myself and others are moving to a platform that does.

ianbordas

True, but maybe that's what they're getting to. It doesn't make sense to keep spending money on PlayBook 1. Hope they do launch a PB2 with higher specs and BB10 soon!

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arvind1983

Only to abandon it later just like the PB.

MozThaGreat

The PB1 didn't work because it didn't have any apps. The Z10 isn't working because it doesn't have any apps. The PB2, which I don't think BB will ever get the chance to even think about, will not work because it will not get any apps, it'll be a guaranteed flop. Its plain and simple, full touch devices whether its a phone or tablet will not work for BB unless it can get all the big name/popular apps. In my opinion keyboard devices are safe for BB cause those buyers don't care about major apps. What I mean by that is they won't lose any Q10 sales for lack of apps like they are for the Z10. I'll be extremely surprised if BB makes another full touch device including the A10.

heyfarhaan

What big name apps are u missing?

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MozThaGreat

Are we talking BB10? Me personally? I want the social media and music apps, theres too many to list.

tayl0rd

You're right. There ARE too many to list. Too many that all have the EXACT same end result. With regards to BB10; are there Facebook apps? Yes. Are there Twitter apps? Yes. Is there Skype? Yes. I could go on, but those are the major ones that come immediately to mind. How many social media sites could you possibly "need?" What you really want is for BlackBerry to follow every fad and trend of the iDroid camps. If that's what you want, just get an iDroid and leave BlackBerry it their own devices; no pun intended.

MozThaGreat

To each their own I guess when it comes apps. I was specifically talking about snapchat, vine, and soundcloud as the ones I wanted to see on BB10. All within BBs reach in my opinion.

I realize that not all app developers will build for BB, I get it they're shallow. But Instagram is owned by FB and I honestly don't see why BB can't talk them directly into building for BB10. I'm sure they've tried it.

Yes there is Twitter and FB on BB10 but CrackBeery themselves have said that neither of those two stack up to iOS and Androids version. That makes absolutely no sense to me cause to my knowledge both of those apps were built by BB themselves(correct me if my wrong). As far as I'm concerned those should be the two most flawless apps on BB10.

smittyboi

If snapchat, vine and soundcloud are apps that are "needed" to you that discredits your argument entirely, but if you can't live without them then sideload them, they work just fine with the android runtime built into bb10

simu31

Then you obviously don't understand the market or BlackBerry or BlackBerry owners (be they Z10, Q10 or Q5 owners). Apps are good, by marketing is more important.

Si.

MozThaGreat

So you honestly think marketing is better than apps??? Are you serious? After playing with the Z10 and other devices its very clear to say BB10 is the superior OS, we can all agree with that.

I can guarantee you marketing is "NOT" the reason why myself and every other smartphone customer didn't leave the store with a Z10.

I'm not saying marketing won't help awareness but it definitely won't help much with sales.

simu31

Yes, marketing is better than apps. That doesn't mean apps aren't important, it just means marketing is more so.
"Marketing [] won't help much with sales"... What?? So by that logic, not knowing something exists will help sales. Doesn't seem like sound logic to me, but I guess you can have a different opinion.
If you're not getting the word out, there's no point having the apps 'cos nobody will be there to get them. If there are customers to buy/download the apps, then developers will actively want to get their apps for the platform.

Si.

MozThaGreat

In my personally experience I was able to get a handful of my friends to check out BB10. A few of them really liked the OS but ended up on other platforms strictly for the lack of apps. Including myself thats 3-4 sales that BB missed out on. I do agree with you that BB needs to get the word out but the marketing effort will be completely worthless unless they can actually get people to buy their phones. And thats just not going to happen without the apps.

simu31

It really is a chicken and egg thing... it's difficult to get apps if there are no customers, it's difficult to get customers if there are no apps... this is one reason I'm really impressed with what Alec Saunders has achieved so far. Despite several people saying the number of apps doesn't matter to them (it doesn't to me personally), the average Joe in the street sees the numbers and doesn't thing much further than that.
One MAJOR problem for potential customers (and BlackBerry) is that people just don't get that BB10 is a brand new OS. They won't even look at a BB10 device simply because of their pre-conceived ideas of what BB is and what it's devices can do... that's a marketing problem.

Si.

lorax1284

It had one of the best apps ever: BRIDGE. That, and a decent mobile Web browser, made the PlayBook worth every penny of the Launch Day price I paid.

Now, it has neither (the Z10 browser is so much better than the PlayBook I don't bother with the PlayBook any more).

Creativeink72

I may be looking at this the wrong way but what is wrong with the playbooks software? It runs fantastic on mine EXCEPT for BRIDGE! thats all I want fixed. I am waiting for the new playbook then I will be cool with the bb10

slagman5

Maybe it's a good time to buy a playbook now at a discounted price then...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

SharonRD

I'd buy one to check out it out, if I could find one locally at a discounted price. I can't seem to find them anywhere where I live.

Posted via CB10 on my sexy Q10

Dave Bourque

its called ebay and amazon...

baandoptager

I thought thats what theyve been doing, under the promise that it would get bb10 :)

iwasspartacus

Please contact me I have 2 32G wifi PlayBooks for sale. Fucking cheap.

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birdman_38

That's even cheaper than cheap!

iwasmarcopolo

I'll give you six bucks if you pay shipping.

Ptwo

If your in the UK I'm interested

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menaknow

Wholy crap, it's not just cheap .... it's f***ing cheap!

kill_9

That might leave the buyer with a pain in the butt or a sore mouth. :-)

iwasspartacus

Chuckle. I'll throw in a shoehorn for you delicate ones.

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morpho4444

Who cares about hub in a 7inch tablet... give us the same apps that z10 has and viceversa,.. my pb apps are not found on bb10

scalemaster34

PlayBook OS and BB10 are suppose to be closely related... all I really want is to be able to run BB10 apps.

If if the same Android apps can be sideloaded and ran on either platform, why can't they at least give us an update to the basic portion of BB10 that would allow us to run BB10 apps

Arabianhorse

I agree. New 7in tablet and loyalty rewards, ie discount price.

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ketchrock

How about a class action suit. Any lawyers out there want to jump on a wagon and become famous. I think the BB user community would bury these guys. Time for accountability Heins.

Ebscer

I am sorry, but no. This is a very stupid idea.

ketchrock

No worries Ebaneezer. I guess you don't care about being bulldozed and lied to. You are as I am allowed to have your own opinion. I am sorry but your response is disrespectful. Grow up.

angrybear123

Lol class action lawsuit? Over THIS? There is no defect to the product that the consumer was not warned about. I suppose a way to make this a lawsuit is convince a judge that the pb os can be considered one giant defective product, and now bbry isn't fixing it.

Haha. Good luck with that.

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kupfernigk

The American tendency to try to start a class action lawsuit just because they don't like someone else's decision, and wildly to exaggerate the effects on them, results in your having to spend far too much on healthcare (and probably a whole lot of other things). The response is stupid because all it does is make money for lawyers - nobody else benefits. As for "disrespectful" - what are you, a rapper? Calling for a class action lawsuit is stupid, and telling somebody so makes a needed point.

djraz_official

Time to start a class action lawsuit on all those who want to sue BlackBerry and to all those who call that idea stupid and the idea of calling that stupid, stupid. Oh let's just start a classic action to sue everyone for everything.

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webcrawler

I just sued myself for reading the post and will sue myself again later for posting a reply!

menaknow

I don't like your comment...

That's it, I'm going to sue you...

tayl0rd

Bulldozed?? Did some BlackBerry muscle burst into your house, put a knife to your wife's throat, and scream, "Go buy a PlayBook or Imma start cuttin'!" LOL Some of you guys are freakin' HILARIOUS with your thought processes and entitlement issues.

XDrew42

I agree. Stupid idea. They tried. We would have fried them over a bad os.

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ketchrock

No worries Xanadu. I'm leaving this area now. I'm now all Apple. You Crockery guys have fun. Good luck when Berry goes bankrupt and leaves you with absolutely nothing. Its not like they have left us with nothing before.

kuczco

I'm trying to get out too. Just gotta find a way to get out of my contract without paying a ridiculous amount. Hopefully the z10 sells easily on kijiji...

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menaknow

So instead to avoid the lawsuit they then have to release a BB10 playbook OS and the playbook performance suffers...

Great idea!.... NOT

bsdnix

I agree they should be sued... BTW. I'm reading comments and cannot believe my eyes, many of those brain-dead pricks would like to buy their new device with discount. They would actually give them more money?!?!?!? Are you retarded or? They screwed us, last thing you should do is to give them more money... Since Alec Sounders said on twitter that PB will never get another update, it is EOL, they need to unlock bootrom so we can at least install android or webos or ubuntu..., or they will really be sued for fraud...!

iwasspartacus

I know.

The idea that I would fall for 'great things coming soon!' is ridiculous but I've been a fanboi for BBRY in the past... it dies hard.

But yeah ... never again.

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litig8or98

I'm a lawyer, and I wouldn't touch that suggested lawsuit with a 50 foot pole. I can't imagine you'd even get class certification. Sorry...it might seem like a good idea to you, but it's really not.

XDrew42

Yes and yes.

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iwasspartacus

And a promise of software updates and great apps too!

Hahaha haha haha (repeat as many fucking times you feel necessary)

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ESCON

All i want is a Bridge to my Z10 and some Updates for my PB...

Dave79

A 2GB upgrade for the memory..

bintheredundat

How about a refund for my $499 paper weight. Yes that would do it. Not a discount on another pipe dream. A refund. Period.

Posted via CB10 on my Z10 Oreo

Trini-34

PlayBook 3.0, continued support for the PlayBook, maybe even a new PlayBook with the required specs to fully support BB10...

kfh227

Ya, this! Give a $50-$150 credit on whatever tablet gets released next. Or on the A10?

Given profit margins, I doubt $150 would happen, but how about $50-$100? Or $50 with a $10 app store credit?

The app store credit woudl be nice just to get people to use it atleast once.

Scorpio41

Yes, a new tablet with new hardware specs for BB10. The new BlackBerry T10 anyone? :)

kwadguy

Here's what they could do: Provide the firmware to unlock the bootloader so we could run an Android variant on these (obviously not supported by RIM). If they do that, I'm good. It would be easy for them to do and I'd be 100% satisfied despite the lack of BB10.

marvini

Yes!! As an owner of 2 PlayBooks bought at full price (one on the first day of availability) I would like some kind of compensation.

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BruvvaPete

Objectively speaking, no one forces us to purchase something on day one.

zeratul65535

Why? When the PlayBook first rolled out, there was no mention of bb10 coming to it. So why demand compensation?

Posted with CB10 on Z10

rickgainsmith

The PlayBook was always sold as the first Bb10 (qnx) at the time. If this was sold as an independent Os platform to the new phones I would never have bought it.

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willm

That was my thought exactly. I bought it with the intent that it was the future direction of BlackBerry and that the Bridge functions I had then wouldn't go away but possibly be enhanced further. I've loved my PlayBooks, but would have thought twice if I knew I'd be left high-and-dry.

bsdnix

Because they've sold tablet with OS that doesn't work, after that they promised to fix it but never did. After that Alec Saunders gave statement that Playbook will never get an update. So I'm asking you, if someone sold you a car but never gane you the keys. That car is useles right? The same thing is with this tablet. This current OS is useless, full of bugs and simply doesn't work... But they got money from us and tricked many others with promising BB10 upgrade... They should unlock bootrom!

Arthur108

Just face it ! We've been completely cheated! I bought one PB at full price! :(

RubberChicken76

I'd like RIM to buy be a porche, a pony and a chateau on the french riviera. But it isn't going to happen

HabsFan9860

...I would like to know why you, and all the other whiners suddenly feel that you are 'owed' anything?...it's OLD hardware, it would have never worked well...to be honest I was surprised that they mentioned BB10 for PB knowing the specs and how it wasn't all that smooth on the Alpha. I too own two PlayBooks, (WiFi & LTE) and I too have also paid full ticket on both (close to, or over $1000)...I plan to buy more (3) because they work as advertised, and work very well. I have never had a complaint with them. History is full of hardware that eventually has to be left behind due to the increasing demand on them by the software that the consumer wants (or thinks they need). The more the consumer demands, the faster the hardware with become obsolete. Also,. when you really...really...really think about it...other than apps... PB OS has most of the core features in BB10 (remember, it was the inspiration so to speak). It has multitasking, Peek (swipe down to the left from the upper right bezel corner), Hub (unified inbox), Flow (side to side swiping from minimized apps as well as maximized ones), Video conferencing, HDMI out, fast browser with Flash and HTML5, ....perhaps a new update will bring on more functions to the PB OS to bring it closer to the BB10's (say streaming over the network to a Smart TV...or BBM etc) but the OS is as it is...get over it and stop sounding like a spoiled brat.........

Mike Wadas

I think what most people are aggravated about is that Blackberry tried to compete with the app market and lost. With BB10 they now have a huge arsenal of apps, and PB owners feel a little ripped off that they purchased a tablet with this handicap. I think a simple android plugin, or more (popular) apps in their app store should quite the masses. The only reason the Playbook isn't getting BB10 is because Android acceleration requires 2GB RAM. The playbook has 1GB. But really most of the popular Android apps will run fine on 1GB. In comparison the Nokia Lumina 928, and iPhone only has 1GB of RAM. So their still should be life in the Playbook but the lack of apps has always been it's Achilles heel.

RedxD

A Z10 would be ok, I guess :P.

No seriously, just give cascades and BB10's browser to my pb and we'll be ok.

Edit: I forgot, give BB10 users full bridge again.

lynxs_claw

+2.. Let me add, replace any of the Adobe Air apps that BB provided initially with the PB and make them in Cascades. Definitely the original bridge capability as well.

arvind1983

The whole PB interface was built using Adobe AIR! AIR is not the problem here. The whole OS is flawed!

supraking

I agree with this. If some of the apps themselves on the PlayBook could be updated (the Browser is sorely lacking) or added (such as Remember and File Manager) the PlayBook would be incredibly more useful than it currently is.

Or, it would be great if they offered trade-up incentives for PlayBook owners on new BB10 devices, e.g. $50/$100/$150 credit (based on PlayBook model) on a new BB10 device. The same way the current trade-up program works.

arvind1983

the credit should not be based on the model. It should be based on the time you bought! I bought the PB on the very first day for full amount around $600! I won't be satisfied with the peanut credits!

Mike Wadas

It wouldn't be worth trading a tablet for a phone. It's a different platform. I would trade-in my Playbook for a new one with at least 2GB of RAM BB10, and an 8MP camera. I have the 16GB model so I would even like to upgrade to the 64GB model. Right now everyone is waiting for a definite answer on the future of Blackberry's tablet future.

mrskycar

Don't forget the Android player could be better.

Crispin in Waterloo

It can't play .avi files, which surprised me.

ozfafapiti

Just Z10 browser and I will be a happy guy.

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chrisstlaurent

Better Browser. Upgrade it. That is my only issue with the PB

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luqman24

I agree, a faster and smoother browser and upgraded Android app player to Jelly Bean would make things better.

domex

Yeah no more checkerboards!

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R Field

Fair statement and he's right if it won't run optimally then why allocate resources to it. I hope you guys managed to ask more important questions than this though.

BlackBerrari

+100000. Sorry guys, I understand your anger, but it is how it is... apple et. al. Don't treat their clients better... My Philips TV, 2y old, since 18m no updates... and it has tons of bugs...! Android users would ask at this time: "what is an update???" ;)

@Thor: A new BB10 tablet would be however nice to get over it... Let it assemble by a third party e.g. sony or other and paste BB10 on it...

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shredney

Some kind of consideration toward the next Tablet-ish device from BlackBerry

Bacon Munchers

THORSTEN et al.:

A 10" TERMINAL DEVICE THAT USES ALL BB10 PHONES TO OWER PLEASE!

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BBThemes

they swapped the dev alphas onto 2Gb hardware this time last year, how comes if they knew that then, it took a whole year to filter down? that's the real question I think is ok we get the full experience or whatever wasn't great, but if you only just realised when you`ve been curtailing dev alpha A builds for a while due to memory then that seems a big problem internally.

jpvj

During the last 6-12 month I talked to several BB employes. They all said bringing BB10 out was the primary goal. After launcing BB10, 10.1 was planned with bugfixes, feature enhancements etc.
10.2 was planned for Q3 and a major memory optimization of BB10 was nescessary to run on the PB harware (1GB memory).
I had a full OS 10.0 running on the dev alpha very early and it was OK, but not very smooth.
Maybe - with the right amount of optimization and effort - BB10 could make it to the PB, but I don't think that would be a good move for BlackBerry right now. They have to spend their ressources on the right projects, and obviously PB is not highly prioritized.

I would not be surprised if the PB is discontinued and we see a more light weight (HW wise) device able to work with the BB10 devices. This would align well with the statement of TH about tablet not being the same in 5 years.

/JP

RubberChicken76

The real gripe I have was that some of the team should have been thinking about that upfront. I would have expected that the core OS team and the architecture teams would have designed BlackBerry 10 to run on 1 GB and 2 GB devices from the start since PlayBook and PlayBook LTE were always on the market. I also would have expected that the "PlayBook project" would have been a small effort to re-layout the UI for the form factor, migrate data and test.

Instead, this smacks of, "yeah - we built this thing without ever actually thinking about PlayBook and then realized it was going to be a lot more work to get it up and running well so we canned the project".

arvind1983

nicely said. The real problem is BB never cared about the PlayBook!

jpvj

I agree with you, but when they designed the PB years back, 1GB of memory was a lot.

The 3G+ and LTE versions could have had 2GB of memory but it always easy to make the right descisions after you've seen what you did wrong.

My best hope is that they will bring some features to the PB OS - a BB 10 "light".
It would also be nice if BB gave all buyers some kind of compensation - especially those who bought the device *after* TH officially stated PB would receive OS 10.

kraschute

1GB is still a lot... when will people finally understand that a 2GB requirement is a wate of soruces...Everyone calling 2GB reasonable will be called an techidiot from now on by me...there are reasons why they need 2GB, but that comes from no optimisation, so curerntly BB10 is Bloatware!

jpvj

My initial response would be: 100% agree - bloatware.

Looking at "free memory" it seems that BB10 consumes about 1GB +/- just after booting (device is enterprise activated and several personal accounts connected too).

I would love to see a memory layout of the consumed memory to see how they achieved to consume that much. Missing optimization seems like a good candidate, but without any facts we are just guessing.

arvind1983

Absolutely agree! 2GB is a lot! BB probably has no clue to build a mobile OS!

RubberChicken76

They've only been doing it for 10+ years ...

probably a lot more clue than you have ...

arvind1983

Wow personal attack! Great! 10+ years and still an un-optimized OS!

bsdnix

I agree Windows 8 x64 needs 2GB of RAM but this is full featured OS, not some small OS for tablets... Fucking bloatware. We need open bootrom and ubuntu OS on it...!

bbiosdroid

Yeah Heinz stop making excuses AND hoggy operating systems.

RubberChicken76

1GB was a lot two years ago - and still twice as much as the iPad Mini, it's primary competition.

I cannot believe (even for a second) that the earliest requirements documents for BlackBerry 10 did not have a requirement that said, "this operating system shall run on all current QNX based devices (PlayBook and PlayBook LTE) and all devices coming next year (Q10, Z10, Q5 etc)."

This is a missed requirement, plain and simple. Not a late requirement that came in and proved too difficult (which often happens), but one that just wasn't adhered to up front and probably required a lot of retrofitting after the fact (expensive) instead of being designed and implemented properly to support those memory devices in the first place.

Thorsten has the egg on his face, but people ought to be asking Dan Dodge why this the case. Maybe the engineers were so rushed that they had to ignore it to get it done, but Dan is still the chief technology officer and is the one accountable for the architecture of BlackBerry 10.

jpvj

No doubt iOS is highly optimized and very mature.

My best guess is that #1 goal was "Make BB10 work and let's get it out". Later we can optimize and improve. Right now time and ressources are not available for optimization as they are used for bugfixing and feature enhancements (e.g. new Android Runtime).

Maybe someone from team CB could ask BlackBerry why their OS requires so much memory compared to other mobile operating systems?

arvind1983

Exactly. Why is BB10 so resource hungry?

Innovatology

My guess:

- two simultaneous Android runtimes (due to BB Balance, one for the personal, one for enterprise side)

- two simultaneous AIR runtimes (again, BB Balance)

- at least three WebKit engine instances per HTML5 app (due to suboptimal system design)

- apps are more likely to be invoked simultaneously due to the "flow" paradigm

- the invoke framework starts additional copies of apps on demand, and keeps them running

- runtimes (Cascades, Android, AIR, perhaps HTML5) are kept running to reduce app startup times

- the Hub (and all the services it requires) is always running

- when app A invokes app B, the entire app B is loaded & started (together with all its dependencies) even if only a small part of app B is needed. AFAIK there are no documented ways or recommended best practices for segmenting an app into multiple modules with multiple entry points.

With good software engineering, 1GB is A LOT of memory. Unfortunately, modern frameworks such as Cascades, AIR, HTML5, Android are not mean & lean, and use heaps of RAM to gain performance. Also, they have many dependencies that need to be loaded, which again have dependencies and so on. Thats why we often speak of "software stacks" nowadays. Astonishingly, AIR is probably the most frugal of that list with its history as a browser plugin.

I expect BB cut a lot of corners trying to get to market ASAP.

El Platanero

OK I'm going to throw Thor a bone (this is funny because my dog's name is Thor). The playbook was created before Thor took the crown. No I'm not defending what happened because I was just as pissed as the next person. I'm saying this to say that a lot of people are making comments on this should have been known from the beginning regarding the RAM. Well how do we know it wasn't the two headed monster that decided to short us on RAM? I don't think we would be having this discussion if they would have come out with the 2 instead.

With that said a promise was broken and must be accounted for. Half off on a tablet if they make one is what I think they should offer. Or maybe a 25%discount on the A10, update the bridge and we still keep our playbooks.

I know that's a tall order to fulfill but with two playbooks sitting in my home, still being used, but a constant reminder of a broken promise.

Posted via CB10

BBThemes

lets be realistic, those unhappy about the tablet situation that have been burned are probably the last people that would buy a new tablet.

Also you cut him a break if you want, but id suggest you re-asses your reasoning, Throsten Heins joined BlackBerry in 2007, starting as Senior Vice President of BlackBerry Handheld Business Unit; Chief Operating Officer of Product Engineering; and finally Chief Operating Officer of Product and Sales. Read that again, he was in charge of product engineering while the PlayBook was being built.

Free pass revoked im afraid. Sorry but the way they handled the PlayBook from launch to now has just been wrong at every step.

iwasspartacus

Thank you for your excellent post.

Posted via CB10

iwasspartacus

With hindsight we are all multi millionaires... you make excellent excuses for their lack of execution and piss poor treatment of early adopters.

Third mobile platform? Nope.

Posted via CB10

BB Super Junior

Note says they pared it down as much as possible. I imagine that the time gap was related to the efforts made to simplify it and make it work for the PB.

It would be easier and proud to offer a more robust Dev device than try to make BB10 optimal for the Dev alpha A.

Not sure if it's fair to compare unbuilt dev devices that could be built to spec and existing PlayBooks that reasonably seemed to have potential to run some form of BB10.

Context: To a large extent the industry wants BlackBerry out. So here's to disappointments in our favor.

Posted via CB10

sgt50

Keep developing the os that the PlayBook has, update bridge, and bring BBM to it

Posted via CB10

ARWestenberger

Very true. There is nothing wrong with PBOS, its actually quite excellent. instead of bringing BB10 to the PlayBook, why not just keep going with PlayBook OS? Just update the browser and allow for apps to go cross platform and I'm sure a lot of people would be a lot happier.

arvind1983

Then what about the lie from BB on the update?

iwasspartacus

When I read these posts I come away with the impression that I have somehow purchased the only 2 PlayBooks with defective keyboards... they are not unusable.

It would be unfair to call them unusable. Close. But not unusable

Posted via CB10

bsdnix

Nothing wrong? Are you fucking kidding me? Browser javascript issue, hardware accelerstion issue (it is like looking at robot moving on my screen), keyboard problems, etc etc...

danfrancisco

Yes! Full bridge + better browser = prolonged PlayBook life.

Enough with this sense of entitlement about getting a free new tablet! Seriously, people! Nobody put a gun to your head and made you buy a PB. Own up to your choices and stop acting like you're the victim of some heinous crime!

Posted via CB10

pick1eberry

Personally I think they should just make a clean break with the PlayBook now and devote the time, money, and resources to other, better projects. BlackBerry has no time to waist on a 2 year old tablet.

Posted via CB10

maddie1128

I totally agree with you. I want BB10 to get better and better- that IS BlackBerry's future.

Rowan M

Ditto.

It's not like everyone here did not break any promises (big/small). There's a reason why it happened and people should learn to move on.

Posted via CB10

Xader

Honestly, for me it needs only one tweak to be fully functional for my uses. The ability to disable the backlight timer.

That's it.

I want to use it in my car. But it drops GPS and streaming apps when the screen turns off.

nick canada

That's all I ever really wanted. I love my PlayBook's and with a few updates and it will be even better

Posted via CB10

bsdnix

There will never be an update. Read Alec Saunders tweet on twitter. The PB is dead and EOL Os is the current one..

G_Neus

+1, and full synchronization capabilities with BlackBerry Link and Outlook.

Posted via my awesome Z10!!

MozThaGreat

Unfortunately BB isn't going to benefit financially from continuing to develop the PB OS. Even for $10 nobodies going to buy a PB today. They just need to focus on further developing BB10/BB11 and flawless/beautiful hardware.

GPWestjet

I would like an offer for a BlackBerry 10 device such as $100 off, as then we do get BlackBerry 10 in the end.
But I do have to agree with Thorsten that quality is the most important thing.

arvind1983

$100 off? is a joke I paid $600 and bought on the first day. I will pay $100 more give me BB10!

Rowan M

I doubt you bought the Playbook because of BB10. Of course, you expect updates to the Playbook OS but it's absurd that you go whining because a totally different and new OS was not brought in, which did not even contributed to your decision making when you bought it on day 1.

It's like buying an iPad2 because you like the way it is when it was released. If technology outgrows it, either you stick with using it or you move on.

Posted via CB10

bsdnix

Technology outgrows? BB10 bloatware that needs 2GB of RAM... Please...

AlKuqo

New tablet please.....i would buy 2

Posted via CB10

Bla1ze

I agree with the move not to bring it to the PlayBook. It wouldn't be the same as on the Z10 or Q10 anyway never mind the fact that the hardware is insanely old given today's standards. How many Android tablets are out there not running the latest updates? Nor did the buyers of those tablets get any warning they wouldn't be upgraded?

I have two here on my desk right now. I'm not mad about it. They still do what they originally did when I bought them and If an upgrade meant they could be worse than when I bought them, then I'm better off not having an upgrade for them.

RevyRah

I don't think the BlackBerry fans are so upset about it not being BB10. I think they're just under the impression that the tablet is completely abandoned.

In its current state, the PlayBook is horrendous with file management and media. It's a disaster. Movies and games play well on it, but there is just so much lacking in nearly every other aspect of the tablet.

Posted via CB10

00stryder

+1

Posted via CB10 on my white Z10 & lovin' it!

mrskycar

+1 Playbook OS needs serious updating and I am sure most concerns will be quelled.

Iamanonymous62

Not that long ago, there were lots of people on here talking about how good the Playbook is, better than the ipad they would say! From what I'm reading now, I can only conclude that they must have been fanboys just blowing smoke???

mrskycar

I don't understand how people are unhappy with the Playbook as I use it every day and get good mileage from it. I bought the device for good hardware, Android support, and Bridge. My thoughts are just update the OS in key areas to a respectable point and call it a day. :/

Ebscer

Since then Apple has come out with a cheaper and more reasonable sized iPad while continuing to improve and update their browser. Meanwhile the PlayBook hasn't seen an OS update in a year...

victorshikhman

Bla1ze, I don't know if CB is a full time job, but it seems to me you work with all the new tech shortly after it's released. Some of us have a very limited tech budget. We buy products to use them until they die, not until something better comes out. I've been using my T60 for 7 years now, and I'm hoping to squeeze another year out of it until haswell prices come down. I wanted my playbook to be useful at least as long as competing products from Apple and Android. Plenty of people are still rocking the iPad v1.0.

In this case, some of us made a decision to trust in the company's word that gaping holes in the OS and ecosystem would be resolved. We waited for 18 months since 2.1 all the while being told that "its coming!" it never came.

Second, to compare your Android tabs to playbook is ridiculous. PlayBook remains a closed ecosystem. We have no Skype, no whatsapp, no netflix, etc. We have this great device that will never achieve even a fraction of its potential. But it could, with some small, measly updates to android runtime, browser, cascades. This was no dream, a promise was made to us that these would arrive.

willm

I also bought a PlayBook with the "use it for years to come" mentality.
When RIM bought QNX in 2010 we were fed "this is the future of the BBOS."
When the Playbook demo first showed it's head six months later we were told "this is the future of BBOS."
When the PlayBook was(finally) launched we were told, "More functionality is coming soon, because this is the future of the BBOS."

Now, in the very next generation of what QNX has become, and what BlackBerry has become, we've just been shafted with "Oops. I guess not."

I haven't bought a BB10 device and I'm still rocking my 9850 with all the bridge features until the day they both die. But for the first time I'm starting to wonder if I 'll stick with BlackBerry when that day comes ...

arvind1983

I am sure you will defend BB's decision. No offense CB is meant to support BB! How can the CEO of a multi billion dollar company promise not once or twice but repeatedly before doing some research on the performance?? A lot of people bought the PB believing those lies! How can you people justify this? Again CB will always support BB and justify about everything! Sorry, but thats the truth!

bsdnix

That is true, CB is supporting them because they don't give a fuck acout community. It is only a money that matters. They are probably paid by blackberry to do a good PR regardless of the outcome... What a shame..

Jerky223

@Bla1ze
Do you think this will encourage BB to include 4GB of RAM when 2GB is "enough"? As the OS develops, more features and more code is needed and ultimately more RAM. If they want more customers to stay, they need to a hardware platform even the Android customers will drool over. The developers I'm sure would have no more excuses either as there would be no lag in there applications.

OriginalLucy

That's a tough decision for him to make. I have no ill will towards him or BlackBerry over this.

Xader

I do, and there's ill will aplenty here...

Alberto Marchinelli

A discount on a BB10 device, so we can have BB10 like He promise .. :P

dzbeebo

Totally!

Posted via CB10 on the Z10

bsdnix

You would actually give them more money? After they screwed you...

Alberto Marchinelli

I think that BB10 is a good reason for give a chance. Actually the problem on my playbook is the slowly broswer.. I pay it 200€.. I think is a good deal..

D-Bizzie

Credit for use in BlackBerry World to obtain at least some of the apps for the functionality holes in PlayBook that would have been plugged with bb10.

Posted via CB10

bungaboy

Move improvements to the existing O/S.

Thunderbuck

With you there. If they update the Air runtime that alone would be very helpful.

General optimization, bug fixes, POSSIBLY the Jelly Bean Android runtime and some form of the BB10 web browser... We'll keep fingers crossed...

mnc76

Yeah. Just give me an updated Android runtime and an updated browser.

Then I can sideload Netflix and surf the web better.

I honestly liked the pre-2.0 performance of the PB so much more than 2.0.

(in fact, the slowness on 2.0/2.1 I experienced has made me gunshy... still on 10.0 with my Z10 even though 10.1 is available from my carrier).

Posted via CB10

cvdburgh

Concur. And aside from that, give us the option to root this baby, for those that want to. 'Cause as it is now, the PB is for those that already have it, mostly. Perhaps for some new users looking for good hardware at a steal, as well.
Amongst those that already own a PB, I think you'll find a lot of tech-savvy people, that want to see what else they can do with this tablet.

bsdnix

And maybe some blowjob... Read Alec Saunders tweet. Current OS is the last one for PB...

sibeans

wow, among many things that went awry...i'm still hoping that at least a few little revisions will be done to the existing OS (updated browser, keyboard, etc.) will come via updates...

DbkBerry

um yeah free quality games and some sort of trade/discount for a bb10 of your choice.

Deckard79

Fixes to the existing OS, strong browser development - what mist PlayBook owners wanted in the first place.

There's a brilliant browser being developed on CB - Origami Browser. Give this guy the tools to deliver, if BlackBerry aren't going to.

Direct communication from Thorsten on the subject, rather than delivered through Crackberry, would be appreciated by many.

Posted via CB10

jbhq

+1
AND be able to change default browser

tprime

I already have a Z10 so don't need that. But at least upgrade the current software. Also can it run jellybean? If yes please update so at least PlayBook can still get newer Android apps.

Posted via CB10

pelletizer

Anything would be nice,we spun the wheel.

Posted via CB10

ron-in-cb

Restoration of full bridge functions for BB 10 devices. This is one of the hang-ups I have in upgrading from my Bold 9900.

drewread

I think that you'll find that once you have a bb10 device you'll not need the PlayBook any more.. I haven't used mine since I got my zed...

#GetWithBB10 Channel @ C000D7228

feldmen01

Don't need any compensation. Had a great two years of use out of my PlayBook.

Posted via CB10

Xader

I've had a year of it sitting on the shelf, waiting for updates to make it functional...

arvind1983

Same here. I feel pity for my PB. I know its a good device. BB forced me to buy a new iPad! Will they force me to buy a new smartphone too in the future?

iwasspartacus

Well... yeah. Won't you want connectivity between your tablet, phone, home devices etc?.

Posted via CB10

Snooze_Ann

I want them to continue to add support for BB10 in the 'bridge' app. I should be able to do everything I could do with a old BlackBerry phone that I can BB10(email, mouse/keyboard, and maybe a few other new features)

Favorite BB10 apps: CB10, GasBuddy, Word of the Day PLUS, BlackBerry Travel, USA Today

domex

Update to keyboard, browser like on z10, bbm!

Posted via CB10

kraschute

DLNA! I want to be able to use my PB as media controller like I could with the Z10

hf199

No more promises until you know you can deliver! BBM and updated browser!

Posted via CB10

Adva_

My reward ; $20 to spend on apps for bb10 device with and free select apps for PB.

Posted via Z10

arvind1983

A lot of PB customers paid full price around $600. I will pay BB more if they can release BB10 for PB!

Andrew4life

I seriously never expected BB10 to come to the Playbook.

What I do expect is an improved browser and faster message app. That is all that I am asking for.

Posted via CB10

marknick

To be honest... a good explanation is enough for me... had my Playbook 2 years and have had great fun with it... i will be first in the queue for a new bb10 tablet... hopefully it's not the rumoured 10"!!

Posted via CB10

amg2004

Swap the PlayBook for a Z10 or Q10... ;-)

Posted via CB10

mastermike87

I'm all for that lol

Posted via CB10

gillaz

Why make a commitment to bringing BB10 to PB before actually finding out for sure if would actually work?

randall2580

The question I wished was asked as well +1

Posted via CB10

k8bushlover

Ditto -- it's the elephant in the room. Whatever made them believe it would work in the first place?

Better to have said/promised nothing at all. Otherwise, cynicism prevails, and the answer to "why was it promised" still is: "To move flagging inventory."

It seems a really insincere apology. It can't have taken them this long to find out it wouldn't work, optimally or at all.

A sign of good will? Free BlackBerry stock, to anyone who will take it. Or a discount on an iPad.

arvind1983

Even start up companies will do proper research before committing to clients. This is not an apology it is another lie! yea, better give us iPad mini or exchange the PB with future device!!

dboy54

I have no problem with bb10 not coming to the PlayBook but I would like them to continue development of the PB and eventually bring the BB10 browser and if possible the BB10 android runtime and to open up the bb10 apps. Personally I never thought I would like the layout of BB10 on the playbook. I also don't think that any compensation is necessary. Don't get me wrong though, I didn't say I would turn anything down.
.

Redroom Media

Discount on A10 on return of playbook

Posted via CB10

bambuco

+100,000

HEAVY discount, not free (maybe??) but definitely make it a serious incentive to return the PB's for an A10 (on Verizon!)

maddie1128

For real???? How do you expect them to make any money then?

arvind1983

I don't care! They took my hard earned money!

Killjoyhere

You must be a troll. You know those creatures of legend hiding under bridges.

Posted via CB10

arvind1983

Will I be labelled a troll if I talk negative things about BB? BB is at fault they failed to deliver the update!

lorax1284

I actually find Thor's "we cancelled it so loyal CrackBerry members wouldn't complain" to be the most awkward non-sensical attempt at PR "spin" I've seen or heard in the last year or so.

How about "Instead of full BB10, we're going to BUST OUR HUMPS bringing a PlayBook 2.2 update that will improve the user experience a lot, but unfortunately, it won't be BB10 compatible... but we're not giving up, we're just not able to fully deliver on our promise."

Instead we get "We're giving up, but you should be grateful, because we're not delivering something crappy, we're delivering nothing at all!".

Sickening.

lorax1284

They didn't sell enough PlayBooks that giving consumers $100 trade in for the PlayBook would not affect their bottom line all that much, and might rebuild some of the goodwill lost to their most loyal customer. They need to sell a LOT more A10s than the number of PlayBooks they sold.

ajst222

I don't blame the decision not to. I'm just glad he actually opened up about it.

Apollo_IV

Finally some closure. As long as they reward PlayBook owners—and I don't necessarily mean with money/discounts— I'm okay with this decision.

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